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    997 depreciation

    I don't really want to start another depressing depreciation thread but the market in the UK appears to have come to an absolute standstill.

    I have a 2004 997 Carrera 2S with only 14k miles. The car is absolutely mint. I was offered Pounds43k for it in April, six months later I can't get a bid on the car!

    I suppose the fact it is still nearly 50% after 4 years is actually quite good, but it makes paying Pounds50k for a facelift model seem just to high a cost to change.

    I'm sort of glad I didn't buy a facelift a few months ago - I predict the depreciation on new 997 FL is going to be horrendous! I know people say don't worry about depreciation, just drive it etc but when you work hard for your money it still hurts when you're going to lose Pounds20k at least in a year (if not more).

    I can't see all the OPC surviving - they have spent millions in the past couple of years on flash new showrooms and I just don't think the sales are going to be there for some time.

    The only good thing is maybe I will be able to pick up a bargain F430 in January and make it a keeper for 5 or 6 years and I think that will level out at around Pounds7k per year.

    Re: 997 depreciation

    Depreciation is just nuts at the moment.. hunt around the board and you'll find plenty of exmples of horror stories.

    Have seen a couple of shockers around AMs recently..

    1, 06 Vantages.. Pounds95k list on dealers forecourts for Pounds45k - avg mileage too, so at least 60% hit on trade in over 2.5 years

    2. '08 Vantage Roadster - 6mths old on dealers forecourt for Pounds35k under list.

    Actually think Porsches have been holding up better than most, but its all relative.... 50% over 4 years sounds very good, even in 'normal' times

    Had planned to sell my V8 about now, but can't. Fortunately it's hardly a hardship driving it.. but had fancied a change

    Re: 997 depreciation

    eh -- I plan to experience 100% depreciation on my '07. I'm going to drive it to death and then buy my next Porsche.

    Re: 997 depreciation

    I jumped out almost a year ago and probably won't be back, for a new car anyway. Great cars but decided to go the classic route for now and avoid the big hits.

    Re: 997 depreciation

    Having owned Porsches since 1974 it has only been with the last few models of "911" that such depreciation has become the norm,--unfortunately.

    My first car I drove for 1.5 years and sold it for what I bought it for,--adding 45,000 miles in the meantime. The second car I drove for 100,000 miles and more, selling it for nearly what I paid for it (and it needed engine work). The third I bought used and sold it at a bit of a loss,--it was too radical for most to consider,--but still relatively little was lost in the sale ((meanwhile putting 80,000 miles on the car). This car,--it just doesn't matter. Drive the thing. Way too many Type A personalities have been dreaming about a 911 for decades, only to buy one, rarely drive it, and then obsess over the money that has been foregone to own such a car.

    Get over it. Hasn't any of the time behind the wheel been worth it? How do you put a price on that?

    Remember that Porsches are irrational purchases, not subject to normal accounting.

    Dan

    Re: 997 depreciation

    Dan you make the most sense here - if you don't want to loose money don't buy a flashy car

    Nugget, I am with you buy - it drive it!

    You know, I think I am going to keep every car I buy from now on, if I need to get a loan, thats cool - just pay for it and keep it!

    I love to read the Porsche / Car mags and when I come across a 1970's or 1980's car with ONE OWNER, I always think, how cool! I want to be that guy!

    Re: 997 depreciation

    You have to go in with the thought that you are pissing the money away. Face it, you are!

    Presently what makes me feel better: I could have invested the money in the market! Current market conditions make me realize that you must enjoy some of your money along with trying to hold on to your money.

    Re: 997 depreciation

    6 month ago their were about five 997 C4S to sell on the swiss 2nd hand market.
    Now there are about 50 !!!!
    I am trying to sell my car since a month and I had not one offer, not even one phone call .
    Yesterday I dropped the price by 10% and I have had now one phone call.
    The prices are so low at the moment . The swiss market has been flooded with about 500grey imports form the US !!!!!

    I am not happy and will not get what I had hoped for . If my dealer takes the car I will get 50% of the initial value ( my car in just under 3 years old with 67000 km )

    My new 997.2 has arrived , but until I sell my old one it will stay at the dealers !!!!

    Re: 997 depreciation

    Quote:
    jplanaux said:
    You have to go in with the thought that you are pissing the money away. Face it, you are!

    Presently what makes me feel better: I could have invested the money in the market! Current market conditions make me realize that you must enjoy some of your money along with trying to hold on to your money.



    Exactly !!!! I' m much happyer with the 50% 'lost' on my car that I enjoy and had plesure with then with the 50% I lost on the stocks .......

    Re: 997 depreciation

    well the longer you wait the more you will loose on the 997.1
    once the FL becomes available off the shelves in the showrooms there will be a bigger hit on the older models. The FL will not start depreciating before 2010, when the 998 spy pics start appearing.

    Re: 997 depreciation

    Think the 997 FL will bomb from the outset - buy one now and I reckon you will easily lose 50% by 2010. I think the earlier 997.1 will continue to drop but early cars that are trading at early Pounds30k can't drop too much more over the next couple of years.

    Re: 997 depreciation

    Quote:
    C2Nerves said:
    well the longer you wait the more you will loose on the 997.1
    once the FL becomes available off the shelves in the showrooms there will be a bigger hit on the older models. The FL will not start depreciating before 2010, when the 998 spy pics start appearing.



    I respectfully disagree with you.

    The biggest depreciation in the 997.1, as in most other cars, is in the first and second years. From now it will still depreciate, but not as fast. So might as well hold onto our 997.1.

    All 997.2 will depreciate 20 to 30% in their first year, there is no way around it. Nobody will view the 997.2 to be significantly different than the 997.1, as it is not.

    People who think Porsche is depreciating too fast should not look at any AMG Mercedes or BMW M6, it is a disaster...

    Re: 997 depreciation

    People buying M6 or AMG know what to expect. It's been that way for the last 20 years. For 997 owners, (especially those how bought/sold 996) it's a real shock.

    Having just put a warranty on my 2005 car, I'll drive it for another year at least - I hope the market may be a little better this time next year.

    Reason no-one is buying is there is no credit liquidity. This can't last forever, so I figure I'll simply wait it out. As previously posted, there could be worse cars to be stuck with....

    Re: 997 depreciation

    Quote:
    Targa Tim said:
    I respectfully disagree with you.

    The biggest depreciation in the 997.1, as in most other cars, is in the first and second years. From now it will still depreciate, but not as fast. So might as well hold onto our 997.1.

    All 997.2 will depreciate 20 to 30% in their first year, there is no way around it. Nobody will view the 997.2 to be significantly different than the 997.1, as it is not.

    People who think Porsche is depreciating too fast should not look at any AMG Mercedes or BMW M6, it is a disaster...



    I cant say I dont agree with all what you said. But, my dealer said something to me that made alot of sense and is proving to be true. More 997.1s are being traded in as the 997.2 are being rolled out so there is going to be a higher supply than the demand. The only sure thing i can say is that if I traded in my 997.1 today instead of 3 months ago (which i did) i would have lost an additional 10%.

    You are right, we will all lose 20% first year, rain or shine. I wish porsche will just stop manufacturing so many cars. There are so much residual stock that is bringing prices down. Up to mid 90s, putting your hand on a new 911 was not a walk in the park..at least in most countries I know.

    Re: 997 depreciation

    ...To keep everything in perspective, what would anyone have done otherwise with the money he/she spent on the Porsche?

    I've been joking at work this week. Between the three possible ways I could have blown cash -real estate, stocks, or the "frivolous" purchase of a car -the P-car is holding its value the best, sadly!

    Re: 997 depreciation

    We have to expect to lose money on a car, my new 997.2 would have lost it's VAT the moment I drove it off the forecourt! It's a fact of life that all car makers are increasing volumes, even Ferrari, Lamborghini etc are doing the same to stay profitable.

    I look at it from a view that I finance the car for a period of time and hope that I break even over the term before I buy my next one. Before getting my new car, I traded in my E46 M3 which I had for nearly 4 years from new with hardly any capital going in and I very almost broke even. Itprobably was one of the first cars I've sold and not really been out of pocket.

    So, when I come to sell my latest car in 3-4 years time, sure it'll have depreciated mostly in year 1-2 but I expect it won't be as half as bad as most other car makers (just look at the E92 M3!)

    To put it into perspective (and sorry I'm going on here) if you buy furniture for your house and sell it a year later it's worthless :-)

    A car is emotive, enjoy it, life is too short!

    Re: 997 depreciation

    Isn't it true to say that a large part of what you stand to lose on 997's is the value of your chosen optional extras?

    Re: 997 depreciation

    Well yes, dealers have got you by the short and curlys... But there's not much you can do about this unless you purchase a very standard car which will nosedive in value because it doesn't have the "right" spec.

    Re: 997 depreciation

    Over 8 years, 996s depreciated on average US$7k/year in the USA. Faster on the first 2 years, slower after 3 years.

    Re: 997 depreciation

    I'm taking a 2 year extended warranty on mine tomorrow.

    This means I'll be keeping it for another 18 months at least. The new extended warranty covers everything apart from wear & tear items and now even covers the PCM...a major reason for me making this move.

    My car looks new, feels new and is only just fully broken in. I prefer a manual box so why spend circa Pounds50,000 for LED lights which resemble a council house at Christmas.

    Re: 997 depreciation

    "All 997.2 will depreciate 20 to 30% in their first year, there is no way around it. Nobody will view the 997.2 to be significantly different than the 997.1, as it is not."

    I beg to differ, when you consider the engine, it is totally different, according to Porsche 40% fewer parts, let alone more power, better FE, and fuel delivery setup.
    Not much different on the outside, but many changes under the skin. Plus NO INTERMEDIATE SHAFT! Big advantage over Gen 1.

    Re: 997 depreciation

    Quote:
    stubenhocker said:
    "All 997.2 will depreciate 20 to 30% in their first year, there is no way around it. Nobody will view the 997.2 to be significantly different than the 997.1, as it is not."

    I beg to differ, when you consider the engine, it is totally different, according to Porsche 40% fewer parts, let alone more power, better FE, and fuel delivery setup.
    Not much different on the outside, but many changes under the skin. Plus NO INTERMEDIATE SHAFT! Big advantage over Gen 1.



    agree with the new engine, agree with it being more economical and powerful, but 997.2 will still follow the same depreciation curve as 997.1.

    All future Porsches will get this new engine. A few years from now everyone will view it as no big due.

    Re: 997 depreciation

    I looked for a <5k miles 06'C4S Cab and got a great deal in Sept and cancel my 09 order. IMHO, unless you are one the gotta have it's, 06/07 are the years to get now. Your probably at a 7k per year hit for the next few years.
    WHich works out to a $700.00 per month, which was about what I paid for my last lease.
    Then when the 998 comes out, make move if you must. I saved over 40k by buying an 06 instead of an 09 and like the the rear end set up better with out the stupid reflector strip..so it works for me, maybe,maybe not for someone else.

    You will always loose some skin in this game. If this keeps you from driving your car, why would you buy one in the first place? Your not going to make money on this purchase

    Re: 997 depreciation

    I did about the same thing - just cancelled my order for an 09 and will be picking up a 07 CS with 8k miles in the next week. The dealer took the biggest hit - as this one with options initially listed for $97,000.

    The car looks, smells and drives like brand new - and doesn't have all the bells and whistles I was going to get with a new one - but it has all the essentials and comes with 100k mile/6 year warranty - longer than the new one I was going to buy!

    So I too saved about 45k, got a longer warranty and a happy wife who loves a good deal.

    Re: 997 depreciation

    Two things I've never heard of before.

    1) Dealer takes the biggest hit..

    2) A 6 year warranty... where's that come from?

    Re: 997 depreciation

    Hi John,

    Me neither! In talking with the sales manager, he explained they took the car which was brand new - in on trade in with less than 1k miles, because the buyer was a multiple car customer with them and he bought a loaded turbo instead. That is why they had paid a lot for the car as they made up the difference on the turbo.

    2 - Porsche certified is the extended warranty for their used cars that they inspect and add the warranty to. It is a 100k or 6 years warranty equivalent to the coverage on the factory warranty now and starts when the factory warranty ends.

    Re: 997 depreciation

    Quote:
    mnmatt said:
    2 - Porsche certified is the extended warranty for their used cars that they inspect and add the warranty to. It is a 100k or 6 years warranty equivalent to the coverage on the factory warranty now and starts when the factory warranty ends.



    Actually you only get 2 additional years after the original new car warranty ends. In other words you get the remainder of the original 4 year warranty + 2 more years when you buy CPO. The only way to get a full 6 years of warranty as the 2nd owner would be to buy a car that was bought as new, traded back in, and then resold to you as CPO on the very same day. Of course there are mileage limitations as well to be considered.

    Re: 997 depreciation

    C2Nerves to qoute you "I wish porsche will just stop manufacturing so many cars." This will never happen. They are in the business to make money, and they do that by selling cars. It is up to the consumer not to purchase their product. What I see as the problem, we don't keep our cars long enough. Everytime a new model comes out, we just have to have the lastest and greatest. Lets try keeping our cars longer. Get rid of the lease option as well. Then maybe we wouldn't have some of these problems. Just my opinion.

    Re: 997 depreciation

    Quote:
    cag64 said:
    C2Nerves to qoute you "I wish porsche will just stop manufacturing so many cars." This will never happen. They are in the business to make money, and they do that by selling cars. It is up to the consumer not to purchase their product. What I see as the problem, we don't keep our cars long enough. Everytime a new model comes out, we just have to have the lastest and greatest. Lets try keeping our cars longer. Get rid of the lease option as well. Then maybe we wouldn't have some of these problems. Just my opinion.




    Re: 997 depreciation

    Quote:
    cag64 said:
    ....Get rid of the lease option as well. Then maybe we wouldn't have some of these problems. Just my opinion.



    HI,
    I read your post. I do not understand your reference to leasing. Leasing is the same as buying, but you have already negotiated the price of the car after say 3 or 4 years, the length of the lease.

    Price is based on supply and demand. If you want a better deal when you buy the car, then an ample supply is good. However, if you want a better deal when you sell the car, then of course an ample supply is bad. You can not have both.

    In my opinion, high supply when you buy the car gets you a better deal, increases the number of P cars out there. Good for the factory and global economy. This in turn produces more pre-owned cars which is good for our fellow P car lovers that can not afford a new one. I do not think leasing has anything to do with it.

     
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