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    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    The only car on sale faster than the 997 Turbo is the Ferrari Enzo (0 to 100 kmh that is).


    Ariel Atom does 0-100kph in 2.8 sec

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    The only car on sale faster than the 997 Turbo is the Ferrari Enzo (0 to 100 kmh that is).


    Ariel Atom does 0-100kph in 2.8 sec



    I wouldnt call the Ariel Atom a car.

    I saw one on the road the other day. The guy was wearing a helmet and full bike leathers. A semi truck passed him
    and splashed him with water and road debris. It looked more like a vehicle for self abuse. Im sure its fast, just dont take it to the store!

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    The only car on sale faster than the 997 Turbo is the Ferrari Enzo (0 to 100 kmh that is).


    Ariel Atom does 0-100kph in 2.8 sec



    I wouldnt call the Ariel Atom a car.

    I saw one on the road the other day. The guy was wearing a helmet and full bike leathers. A semi truck passed him
    and splashed him with water and road debris. It looked more like a vehicle for self abuse. Im sure its fast, just dont take it to the store!


    Yeah, I agree. It's a 4-wheel motorcycle

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    CF said:
    What the HELL did you people expect!!!

    PASM: Improved to the extent that it is good enough for the GT3 AND the GT3RS!!!

    New 4-wheel drive system which None of you expected!!

    Lighter than you expected!!

    VTG

    A monstrous Torque curve.

    Lowered fuel consumtion.

    Performance stats on Paper that are a major imrovement compared to 996 Turbo and Turbo S.

    A New Tiptronic gearbox with excellent performance stats making it a viable option.

    310 KPH is good enough for me and I drive on the Autobahn.

    For those of you who live in the US this is not even open for discussion since most of you haven't even exceeded 170 MPH!!

    480 HP is 480 Porsche HP which is good enough unless you only care about numbers on Paper.



    I'm with you CF. This is best car Porsche made for the last years, apart from the CGT. The performance figures are amazing, for God sake, it's even faster than a CGT to 100Kph, have lots of low end torque which makes a pleasant drive for everyday use and it looks like a Porsche Turbo should look, with new beautiful wheels and a meaning looking, even if I find a simple 997 Cab more beautiful than a Turbo, i have to agree that this car should look agressive and more sporty than the regular 997.

    So RC, if you don't feel good about it, don't buy it, waite for the Turbo S , but I'm afraid when the Turbo S comes, people here will not like it because it only has the PDK I generation, makes 3,1seg to 100Kph and 11, 2 seg to 200Kph wxhich will be slow for you, at your own eyes it should come with the III generation PDK, and should have make 11,0 seg flat to 200Kph and 1200Kg

    There's always something better out there.

    J.Seven

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    RC said:
    The 997 Turbo is here and everybody is happy. Everybody? Not really I'm afraid. Yes, I ordered one. Yes, I will get one. Yes, I just can't wait to get mine. Am I happy? No, I'm not. I'm looking forward to get my Turbo but that special feeling I always had about getting a new car is somehow missing. Why? I'm not sure.



    You do not have that special feeling as the new turbo is NOT a significant step forward. The car is too slow, the tiptronic vs. manual performance is a real joke, the car is too heavy. Nothing special.

    The gap between the turbo and its competitors has narrowed over recent years as competitors have introduced new models. Now Porsche FAILED to widen it again with the new turbo.

    I am very, very disappointed. I would (and will) never buy the car presented now. Maybe the powerkit and PSK will change my bad feelings. Who knows.

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Does anyone know if the 997TT tip box is the same as a 997's tip box??? If it is I might take my friends 997 tip for a ride and see how I like it before I finalize my turbo order... Thanks in advance...

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    I'm with CF..

    why aren't you happy..

    i love the look of the 996 turbo..this one looks better..

    on the 996 Turbo i had 420HP...now we have 480 Porsche HP..so near 500 for ROW cars

    We have VTG,a new all wheel drive system that at this moment noome know how good is..

    the car is lighter than before..

    we have thew Overboost to play with..

    The price tag is really good,better thank expected..

    So i'm really happy..the only thing i hate is that is easy that on the order guide there isn't the CGT seats and the Roll Bar options..this is really a mistake..

    Sure..i prefer to have 500 HP from start..but this is..and i can do nothing..

    And about the Tip faster than manual...no words..i hate the Tip on my Cayenne that isn't a sportscar....so i prefer to loose "some time" but joining the use of the manual gearshift


    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    So a 6% increase in power (510 HP) and a manual gearbox that's faster than a Tiptronic would give the car a soul.

    If the Tiptronic yields such improvements in acceleration I'm sure the downshifting qualities are equally impressive.

    To me it seems that many of you think the car lost it's soul the moment you knew that the car was faster with Tip.

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    CF, the answer to that is Yes. Simply because the automatic lacks the involvment or skill level of a manual. It is a sports car, there should be some skill needed, and usually skill begets the quicker speed. Porsche has now thrown that out the window.

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    I see your point CF but every auto box I have tried gives some delay-its not so involving. You may say that's rubbish but there's lots of satisfaction to be had coming down the gears, matching revs precisely, feeling the gears mesh sweetly, or on the other hand acceleratin full bore through the gearts and knowing you got it right. Maybe you are right; 'To me it seems that many of you think the car lost it's soul the moment you knew that the car was faster with Tip'. For some of us that must be true.

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    BD 997 said:
    Does anyone know if the 997TT tip box is the same as a 997's tip box??? If it is I might take my friends 997 tip for a ride and see how I like it before I finalize my turbo order... Thanks in advance...



    Correct me if I'm wrong but the Carrera's slushbox is manufactured by ZF whereas the turbo's manufatured by Mercedes Benz.

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    RC said:
    The 997 Turbo is here and everybody is happy. Everybody? Not really I'm afraid. Yes, I ordered one. Yes, I will get one. Yes, I just can't wait to get mine. Am I happy? No, I'm not. I'm looking forward to get my Turbo but that special feeling I always had about getting a new car is somehow missing. Why? I'm not sure. Maybe because there is something about the new 997 Turbo I don't feel right about. Is it the looks? Well, it looks like the old one on steroids, so this really doesn't bother me. On the contrary, this slightly more aggressive looks pretty cool.
    Is it the technical data of the new Turbo? Well, judging by the specs, this car is pretty impressive. VTG charger technology, electronically controlled AWD, Overboost function, huge PCCB brake system, this car sounds like a hightech playground.
    Is it the price tag which bothers me? Well, of course it bothers me but it always bothered me because it is a lot of money, so this isn't it.
    So what is it? Why ain't I happy about getting such a fantastic car?

    So I was thinking and thinking and thinking and I came to a very simple conclusion: I don't feel the happiness of getting this car because it isn't something special.
    Now wait, would everybody say, how can this monster not be something special. 480 HP, 310 kph top speed, 3.7 seconds from 0-100 kph in 3.7, why would someone be crazy not to be happy to get such a car? Well, I don't expect everybody to understand, I agree. But you have to look at it from my point of view. I can't afford buying such a car every year. Over the last years, I spent too much money for cars. Now, I have to get a car I'm at least 4-5 years happy with. I just have the feeling that the 997 Turbo isn't the right car for this purpose.

    Maybe I'm spoiled, maybe I want more and more and I'm not satisifed anymore. But this ain't the reason I'm not really happy. When I got my 997 Carrera S back in August 2004, I was very happy and I felt that special feeling.
    Now, something is wrong.

    Maybe Porsche didn't really understand what people like me expected to see from them, maybe Porsche underestimated the desire of having the ultimate sportscar without having to wait until a model cycle is almost over, maybe Porsche was looking too much at new customers and saving cost than looking at the competition.

    Yes, the 997 Turbo is the hell of a car and it is very fast. It can't beat the F430 regarding the top speed but this really isn't a problem because it is extremely fast in the lower speed range. But still, with manual, performance of the 997 Turbo and F430 are at par, a little disappointment already. And what's with that Tiptronic is faster than manual stuff? I never really wanted Tiptronic in my sportscar and now I'm forced to get it because it is the only way I get the best performance? Is it really a clever thing to do to offer a car which is faster with an auto tranny than with manual, meaning that any housewife, 16-year old school kid, granny, etc. in a 997 Turbo could outrun me from a stoplight, no matter how hard I'm trying to shift? They just press the throttle and hallelujah, off they go? I'm really having a hard time to understand this.
    Or does Porsche think they can fool customers by making them think that they get the rumored PDK, just named Tiptronic? And if we're talking about the PDK: what took them so long to offer a sequential shifting system for the Turbo? Ferrari has it, BMW has it...are these companies technologically more advanced than Porsche? Or does Porsche want to sell something "special", too cook their own soup like we say here? And if so, how much is it going to cost us in the end? Double the Tiptronic price tag?

    Yes, I'll go for Tiptronic. And here's the catch: it may not be possible to get PCCB with Tiptronic because among the first launch cars, only the manuals have PCCB. Or was it only the cars with Tiptronic? I don't remember anymore, I'm confused. And what about this overboost? I like the idea of the overboost but why only in the middle rev range? And does the horse power go up too in that range, nobody can tell me that? And what about those 10 seconds? When I release the throttle, do I get immediately another 10 seconds or not? And what about the performance figures we're reading about? Are they with or without the overboost function? Lots of questions I have and looking at my position as Rennteam Editor, a true Porsche enthusiast and somebody who really has his sources for information, I shouldn't have these questions. But I still have them and the reason why I have them is simple: all this stuff is confusing, half-bread and somehow not understandable.

    Why doesn't Porsche explain in their press release why the Tiptronic is faster? Why don't they mention the 0-300 kph time with Tiptronic? Is it faster than manual too? Or is the manual faster at speeds over 200 kph?

    What about shifting times? Have shifting times been improved? What about the so much talked about better throttle response? Do we get a better throttle response with Tiptronic too?

    And exactly here's my problem: the new 997 Turbo confuses me and the more I think about it, I have to come to one conclusion: this car doesn't make sense to me. No way.
    To be honest: if I would have the money and if I wouldn't care about my sourroundings like neighborhood, customers, etc., I would probably go to the next Lamborghini dealer and get myself a Gallardo SE and be happy for the next few years. And funny enought, the 997 GT3 sounds more "logical" to me than the 997 Turbo, it attracts me more but I know that this is not the right car for me since I don't do much track racing.

    I don't know who is responsible for Porsche marketing and I don't know who was responsible for the 997 Turbo project, especially when it came to specify the technical specs.
    But one thing is for sure: nobody asked former Turbo customers what they think about it. And if they asked, they asked the wrong persons. Making a Tiptronic faster than manual, what the heck were they thinking? Don't get me wrong, there is nothing bad about Tiptronic. But whoever tried to use it in the manual mode, knows that not only the shifting reaction times suck, those stupid buttons on the steering wheel suck too. I don't know how many times I accidentally touched one of those buttons in my Cayenne Turbo or in my wife's Tiptronic equipped Boxster S. Why not shifting paddles? Are all the other manufacturers doing it wrong???

    I know that it is too late now to complaint about the new 997 Turbo. The specs are set and the cars are already in production. And I also bet that the upcoming powerkit won't be retrofittable, so just that I feel bad again when it shows up. No problem, I can take care of that of my own. But it still doesn't feel right that Porsche didn't use their chance to set all open bills straight by putting a whopping 520 HP in the Turbo and making it a real rocket.
    Of course we will see 510 or 520 HP in the Turbo, no doubt about it. And of course the 997 Turbo will kick the competition's a.. even with 480 HP, especially on the track. But how many of us are really track racing their car? How many of us are really driving this car at the limit? Isn't the 911 Turbo supposed to be Porsche's "top" model, with some variations at the end of the production cycle in the form of a "S" and GT2?

    Yes, I'm still getting the new 997 Turbo. Yes, I still want it and yes, I'm pretty sure it will be a lot of fun to drive. But no, this time I'm not happy to get it, it just feels like another car. Porsche starts to loose it's attraction and as soon as they realize that, it may be too late. Or maybe it is me and not them, maybe I'm getting old, maybe I don't like Porsche cars anymore.

    Or maybe I just got older, wiser and I started to understand the "game" Porsche is playing. And I can't say I like it. This comes from a customer, who bought several Porsche cars over the last few years. I don't want to offend anybody, I just wanted to express my personal feelings.

    And to end this long post: do you guys actually know what really bothers me: it bothers me that Porsche could have done better...MUCH better. Why didn't they? Marketing strategy, cost...whatever...I don't care. I don't feel good about it and this is all I care about. Amen.



    RC, after reading through your entire post my personal suggestion to you would be to cancel the 997TT order. I don't think you would be happy with the car (no kidding).

    For true enthusiasts it might be wise to demonstrate patience and wait for the powerkit version and PDK. Maybe this car can fulfil our expectations

    If not, Porsche has lost me as a customer.

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    I know I rarely agree with Nick (nberry) and I know he's not the most liked person on this board, but RC, I believe what you're describing is something that Nick has been talking about for a very long time. It could very well be that the 911 has lost its "soul" and your reaction to the 997TT is quite possibly a result of that. Nick has never said that the 911s were slow or inferior cars, they just didn't "do it" for him. What I'm hearing from a few of the people in this thread is something that sounds oddly similar to that (in a far less extreme way than Nick's usual posts ).

    I know for me the 997TT is the safer bet but the GT3 is the only model out of the new lineup that actually has me excited. I'm still not decided as to which one I will go with in the end, but right now I'm leaning towards the GT3.

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Super Darius, I dont think the tt is that much lighter to make a real difference in feeling or agility. Prices is ok, but you still need to pay $$ for PCCB and Sport Chrono Turbo to make a complete dinner.

    At its price and position, at least the "overboost" should be free and not ala carte $$$.

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Why doesn't Porsche explain in their press release why the Tiptronic is faster? Why don't they mention the 0-300 kph time with Tiptronic? Is it faster than manual too? Or is the manual faster at speeds over 200 kph?




    I would bet a substantial sum of money that the tiptronic is slower 0-300 than manual. Why? It has only 5 gears, i.e. the 5th gear has to cover a wider speed range.

    So the ridiculous situation is: below 200km/h the tiptronic is faster, above 200km/h the manual is faster. What a joke. Cancel your order. I am close to 100% sure that you would regret taking the car.

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    RC,

    My friend sorry that you feel that way I share all your opinions with you. The sad part is that I felt like you when the 997 Carrera came out . Didn't feel any special, of course much improved over past models but had lost its zest at least for me.

    When I got my thoughts together I told myself wait till Turbo comes out, that's when Porsche shines like a diamond but with this 997TT (Still fantastic car, no doubt) I believe the diamond is cloudy and not very shiny and clear.

    With the turbo announcement I was somewhat disappointed too, since their release didn't highlight any major technological milestone, of course except the VGT. I remember with any new Turbo Porsche had lists and lists of new technologies that were offered and you were looking to have those in the future Std. Carrera models but I guess Porsche has turned into a completely different company. I hate the fact that Nick is going to rub it in our faces "I told you so".

    My friend it definitely has to do with age RC the more mature you get to more you realize your surroundings. I believe, as you mentioned , Porsche is after new customers and truly don't care about the true fans and enthusiasts. Porsche will eventually turn into a another Mercedes that they offer nothing but Automatic transmissions because their customers want it so but why? Nothing against the tips here guys.

    Is it because the management is taking a different approach? is the upper management's philosophy from MB and BMW? Only god knows what happened here and I can assure you that Dr. Ferdinand Porsche is turning in his grave.

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    amjf088 said:
    I sense the main hang up for many right now is that the official Porsche figures peg the tip as a quicker machine, at least up to speeds owners are likely to see.

    I would wait for independent tests to see just how big the gap really is. The mags always launch harder than Porsche and consequently get better times (an extreme example is Car & Driver getting 4.1 s to 60 mph out of a standard 997 S - must have been a hell of clutch drop though). On the other hand, there is less variability in how aggressively one can drive the tip. You step on it and go, period. Less variables in terms of launch rpm, shifting speed etc. It may be possible that typical values are closer between the tip and manual. Also, I'm pretty sure that the manual will be quicker than the tip on a track.

    Actually, I'm really pleased with this car. The reasons are:

    1) Porsche has intoduced significant new technology (VTG) that promises a real improvement in torque spread.

    2) For the first time in god-know-how-long, Porsche has actually managed to shave a few pounds off of a new turbo. I think we were all expecting the usual weight increase. It may not be a huge weight reduction, but to me it is a significant turning of the tide.

    3) The styling is a personal thing, but I think Porsche has done well. The new wheels look great too.

    4) Yeah, maybe Porsche could have done better, but we can always say that too. I think this car is good value for the $$$ in terms of the combinations of performance, quality and safety.

    RC, I suspect you will love this car once you get it. I would think about the transmission though, for me, a couple of tenths is not worth the change in "fun" factor.

    However, if you can't come to feel the love for this car, don't get it. It's way too much $$ to not be 100% happy with. You might actually want to try the Gallardo (my favorite non-porsche for sure)... don't worry about what your neighbours think, we all only have one life to live...



    The Porsche turbo has to be the fastest car around - most people buy it for that single reason.

    There is now way around it: Porsche FAILED. The 997TT missed its objective.

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Let's try a little "thought experiment".

    Suppose that there isn't any power difference between the tip and manual cars (this has been suggested, but there is no evidence yet). In other words, the tip is faster as a result of great engineering and wider ratios taking advantage of the new turbo's torque...

    Given this scenario (which very well may be the truth) would you suggest that Porsche "hold back" the tip just to keep the manual faster?

    A couple of tenths of a second on timed acceleration runs is pretty irrelevant unless you are (seriously) racing. Choose the transmission you prefer to drive and be happy!

    BTW: I would say it is too early to say Porsche has failed. Let's at least wait for some independent test reports...

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    Ron (Houston) said:
    The sad part is that I felt like you when the 997 Carrera came out . Didn't feel any special, of course much improved over past models but had lost its zest at least for me.





    RC, you really set off an avalanche!

    if this goes on, i guess that nick will start to argue PRO porsche

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    CF said:
    What the HELL did you people expect!!!




    I expected a car that is (at least) quicker than a F430. The 997TT is not even that! Unless you order a tiptronic and accept slower performance above 200km/h... What a disaster.

    For me, the 997TT is the second recent Porsche (following the Carrera GT) which is a major disappointment.

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    CF said:
    Performance stats on Paper that are a major imrovement compared to 996 Turbo and Turbo S.

    310 KPH is good enough for me and I drive on the Autobahn.




    The 997TT performance is not significantly different from the 996TTS performance (.3-.5 secs for 0-200).

    310kph is slower than all relevant competitors (F430, Gallardo, even M6 if delimited...).

    I repeat myself: What a disaster.

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    All of these could have been much better, more honest and
    better performing.

    Cayenne.

    Cayman.

    Now the 997TT !

    Next will be the Panamera.

    The trend sucks!

    I think the CGT may have been Porsche's last hurrah as a builder of Porsches.

    You used to see more rub off between Porsche Motorsports
    and their street cars. Now its as if Porsche Motorsports
    exists on another planet.

    Empty hearted marketing calculations, out of Germany vendor
    supplier and manufacturing schemes are all out of balance over passion.

    A new model Porsche Turbo NOT generating excitement, lust and desire but only questions and doubt?????



    I might meet you at the Chevrolet dealer soon

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    TEE1 said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    The 997 Turbo is here and everybody is happy. Everybody? Not really I'm afraid. Yes, I ordered one. Yes, I will get one. Yes, I just can't wait to get mine. Am I happy? No, I'm not. I'm looking forward to get my Turbo but that special feeling I always had about getting a new car is somehow missing. Why? I'm not sure. Maybe because there is something about the new 997 Turbo I don't feel right about. Is it the looks? Well, it looks like the old one on steroids, so this really doesn't bother me. On the contrary, this slightly more aggressive looks pretty cool.
    Is it the technical data of the new Turbo? Well, judging by the specs, this car is pretty impressive. VTG charger technology, electronically controlled AWD, Overboost function, huge PCCB brake system, this car sounds like a hightech playground.
    Is it the price tag which bothers me? Well, of course it bothers me but it always bothered me because it is a lot of money, so this isn't it.
    So what is it? Why ain't I happy about getting such a fantastic car?

    So I was thinking and thinking and thinking and I came to a very simple conclusion: I don't feel the happiness of getting this car because it isn't something special.
    Now wait, would everybody say, how can this monster not be something special. 480 HP, 310 kph top speed, 3.7 seconds from 0-100 kph in 3.7, why would someone be crazy not to be happy to get such a car? Well, I don't expect everybody to understand, I agree. But you have to look at it from my point of view. I can't afford buying such a car every year. Over the last years, I spent too much money for cars. Now, I have to get a car I'm at least 4-5 years happy with. I just have the feeling that the 997 Turbo isn't the right car for this purpose.

    Maybe I'm spoiled, maybe I want more and more and I'm not satisifed anymore. But this ain't the reason I'm not really happy. When I got my 997 Carrera S back in August 2004, I was very happy and I felt that special feeling.
    Now, something is wrong.

    Maybe Porsche didn't really understand what people like me expected to see from them, maybe Porsche underestimated the desire of having the ultimate sportscar without having to wait until a model cycle is almost over, maybe Porsche was looking too much at new customers and saving cost than looking at the competition.

    Yes, the 997 Turbo is the hell of a car and it is very fast. It can't beat the F430 regarding the top speed but this really isn't a problem because it is extremely fast in the lower speed range. But still, with manual, performance of the 997 Turbo and F430 are at par, a little disappointment already. And what's with that Tiptronic is faster than manual stuff? I never really wanted Tiptronic in my sportscar and now I'm forced to get it because it is the only way I get the best performance? Is it really a clever thing to do to offer a car which is faster with an auto tranny than with manual, meaning that any housewife, 16-year old school kid, granny, etc. in a 997 Turbo could outrun me from a stoplight, no matter how hard I'm trying to shift? They just press the throttle and hallelujah, off they go? I'm really having a hard time to understand this.
    Or does Porsche think they can fool customers by making them think that they get the rumored PDK, just named Tiptronic? And if we're talking about the PDK: what took them so long to offer a sequential shifting system for the Turbo? Ferrari has it, BMW has it...are these companies technologically more advanced than Porsche? Or does Porsche want to sell something "special", too cook their own soup like we say here? And if so, how much is it going to cost us in the end? Double the Tiptronic price tag?

    Yes, I'll go for Tiptronic. And here's the catch: it may not be possible to get PCCB with Tiptronic because among the first launch cars, only the manuals have PCCB. Or was it only the cars with Tiptronic? I don't remember anymore, I'm confused. And what about this overboost? I like the idea of the overboost but why only in the middle rev range? And does the horse power go up too in that range, nobody can tell me that? And what about those 10 seconds? When I release the throttle, do I get immediately another 10 seconds or not? And what about the performance figures we're reading about? Are they with or without the overboost function? Lots of questions I have and looking at my position as Rennteam Editor, a true Porsche enthusiast and somebody who really has his sources for information, I shouldn't have these questions. But I still have them and the reason why I have them is simple: all this stuff is confusing, half-bread and somehow not understandable.

    Why doesn't Porsche explain in their press release why the Tiptronic is faster? Why don't they mention the 0-300 kph time with Tiptronic? Is it faster than manual too? Or is the manual faster at speeds over 200 kph?

    What about shifting times? Have shifting times been improved? What about the so much talked about better throttle response? Do we get a better throttle response with Tiptronic too?

    And exactly here's my problem: the new 997 Turbo confuses me and the more I think about it, I have to come to one conclusion: this car doesn't make sense to me. No way.
    To be honest: if I would have the money and if I wouldn't care about my sourroundings like neighborhood, customers, etc., I would probably go to the next Lamborghini dealer and get myself a Gallardo SE and be happy for the next few years. And funny enought, the 997 GT3 sounds more "logical" to me than the 997 Turbo, it attracts me more but I know that this is not the right car for me since I don't do much track racing.

    I don't know who is responsible for Porsche marketing and I don't know who was responsible for the 997 Turbo project, especially when it came to specify the technical specs.
    But one thing is for sure: nobody asked former Turbo customers what they think about it. And if they asked, they asked the wrong persons. Making a Tiptronic faster than manual, what the heck were they thinking? Don't get me wrong, there is nothing bad about Tiptronic. But whoever tried to use it in the manual mode, knows that not only the shifting reaction times suck, those stupid buttons on the steering wheel suck too. I don't know how many times I accidentally touched one of those buttons in my Cayenne Turbo or in my wife's Tiptronic equipped Boxster S. Why not shifting paddles? Are all the other manufacturers doing it wrong???

    I know that it is too late now to complaint about the new 997 Turbo. The specs are set and the cars are already in production. And I also bet that the upcoming powerkit won't be retrofittable, so just that I feel bad again when it shows up. No problem, I can take care of that of my own. But it still doesn't feel right that Porsche didn't use their chance to set all open bills straight by putting a whopping 520 HP in the Turbo and making it a real rocket.
    Of course we will see 510 or 520 HP in the Turbo, no doubt about it. And of course the 997 Turbo will kick the competition's a.. even with 480 HP, especially on the track. But how many of us are really track racing their car? How many of us are really driving this car at the limit? Isn't the 911 Turbo supposed to be Porsche's "top" model, with some variations at the end of the production cycle in the form of a "S" and GT2?

    Yes, I'm still getting the new 997 Turbo. Yes, I still want it and yes, I'm pretty sure it will be a lot of fun to drive. But no, this time I'm not happy to get it, it just feels like another car. Porsche starts to loose it's attraction and as soon as they realize that, it may be too late. Or maybe it is me and not them, maybe I'm getting old, maybe I don't like Porsche cars anymore.

    Or maybe I just got older, wiser and I started to understand the "game" Porsche is playing. And I can't say I like it. This comes from a customer, who bought several Porsche cars over the last few years. I don't want to offend anybody, I just wanted to express my personal feelings.

    And to end this long post: do you guys actually know what really bothers me: it bothers me that Porsche could have done better...MUCH better. Why didn't they? Marketing strategy, cost...whatever...I don't care. I don't feel good about it and this is all I care about. Amen.




    why would you ever spend Euro 150k and not be happy about it. You are not flush with cash - so why? Just because you need it. If where you, I would wait or get a different car. If you can drive up with a turbo to your customer or neighbourhoud you can drive any car...

    all I can say even if I could afford it I would buy a car which as you so nicely say "it just feels like another car" - you either want it or not, otherwise you are just fooling yourself

    just my 2p worth...



    RC ,,

    I know the feeling and I know for you its too late to cancel but myself felt exactly the same when my order process was going through . The lack of excitement was so much so that I held back my 2nd spec non refundable deposit by 2 weeks to re-think . I sat here at my desk thinking ""Keith get yu bloody act together"" and decide and decide I did as you all know . I ended up going with my gut feeling and it was all very confusing when considering I have always wanted a 911 from a small boy but now its done I must say I dont regret it because just alone I have learnt so much on here from you guys which stands me far better on the reorder . Also the older age thing definitely does comes in to play , the wiser head plays games with you specially when we are talking about a big money layout . Having said all of that when you do get it I am sure that you are going to be over the moon with it and I for one hope you are..

    All the best ..

    throt..

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    CF said:

    To me it seems that many of you think the car lost it's soul the moment you knew that the car was faster with Tip.



    Exactly.

    A car like this is a big investement for anyone (at least compared to other cars). Why commit unless you are 100% sure you won't regret it? It is not about the money, it is about satisfaction.

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    so the tip on the turbo is benz made and the tip on the carrera is "the old tip"? correct???

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    BD 997 said:
    so the tip on the turbo is benz made and the tip on the carrera is "the old tip"? correct???



    All tips are Mercedes developments. Porsche does not have an own automatic transmission.

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Sorry guys, but i'm laughing my a** off right now.
    Nobody here has driven the damn car yet, but you're complaining about the lack soul? You figured that out just from a couple of PICTURES and some lines of text?? Uhm, ok...
    You don't even know if the tiptronic is really faster, but those 0.2 secs from the OFFICIAL specs just ruined the car for you? Sorry dudes, but that's just hypocritical bullsh*t.
    Even if it is a bit faster, so what? I bet the engineers worked their ass off to make it so, i just don't see how the marketing dept might be interested in more tiptronic sales than manuals...
    Then there are a couple of whiners here, i'm sorry to say it. No test yet, but they're filling up the board with tens of identical messages (and it seems like they really need five consecutive identical messages to speak their minds), burying the new turbo before it even had a chance to prove it's worth. BS, again.

    A day ago everybody was enthusiast about the 480hp, overboost, new 4WD, VTG, etc... Now the same guys are complaining about the same things they were raving about 24 hours before... What changed in the mean time? TWO tenths of a second? Oh come on...

    You know what's REALLY sad? The guys on ferrarichat are more enthusiastic about the TT than the supposed porsche enthusiasts. Seems like they don't care that much about those 0.2 secs...

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Merc DNA transplant....

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Quote:
    zzboba said:
    Quote:
    Ron (Houston) said:
    The sad part is that I felt like you when the 997 Carrera came out . Didn't feel any special, of course much improved over past models but had lost its zest at least for me.





    RC, you really set off an avalanche!

    if this goes on, i guess that nick will start to argue PRO porsche



    I know. Nick as a defense attorney will be blasting us all here

    Re: New 997 Turbo - did Porsche a good job?

    Sounds like alot of you aren't happy with the new turbo, I have an idea "Don't Buy It". this car will be sold out for the next 2 years easy. From everything I've seen the TT looks really good and the performance is excellent considering the power to weight ratio. I would have liked to have seen more power but I figure it will come with the X50 package. As far as the Tip goes I love it and I'm glad its faster then the manual. I believe 90% of Ferrari's today are the F1. Porsche is following the demand.

     
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