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    Charging network in Germany

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-germany-autos/germany-forces-all-petrol-stations-to-provide-electric-car-c...

    Now this is good news for EV adoption if the logistics can be overcome. Actually it's great news for EV adoption.

    Having EV chargers on every gas stations takes away the 'anxiety'. Most of the gas stations alone side the autobahn are already in giant complexes so piping in extra electricity shouldn't be too much a problem. Parking/charging space will also be ample as those complexes are quite big. 

    Space and electricity supply will be a bigger deal for gas stations inside cities however.

    Tesla sympathizers will probably claim this neutralizes their superior range advantage and charging infrastructure and it's a move to 'help' the 'inferior' German EVs. 

    I don't see it that way. These chargers will have industry standard plugs, and all Teslas came with the adapter to use standard plugs, so this move benefits them too, especially so actually. Autobahn speed travel had always been Tesla's Achilles' heel, it drains their batteries in no time, this move just means they don't have to hunt for Supercharger now, they can simply stop at any gas stations to top up. This move actually benefits Tesla EVs more than the German ones as those German offerings don't suffer as much on the autobahn. 

    Now if only the rest of Europe, and North America, adopt the same thing, chargers at every gas station. No need for super long range batteries, and lighter EVs also.

     

     


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    Re: Charging network in Germany

    I just love legislators. On proud display folks, you see a gross miss understanding how electric cars are charged 99% of the time.
    Adding charging to gas stations is hilarious but understandable if you don’t own an EV- Tesla or other. Wonder if the charge will be cheap?  Humor. Only government could think of this - gas and electricity at high voltage. What could go wrong?  
    Adding plugs to streetlights and parking spaces makes a ton of sense. Enhancing our grid using car batteries to balance the power peaks and turn your car into a virtual power plant and cash machine makes sense. 
    This is like forcing you to buy light bulbs at candle shops thinking they will come in for light bulbs each week like candles.  Wrong. They will seek out the cheapest source (at home) and avoid any other more expensive source like crazy. This is what they do with gas today. For a few pennies a gallon I might add. They will buy houses or apartments with places to plug in. You think people orient their lives around WiFi?  Wait until they realize pennies can be saved with a 50 amp plug or a little solar. 
    This is all excellent news for all of us  it means competition  - cheaper gas and electricity ok’ing soon   It to mention faster and safer cars !   Good times

    Always in favor of adding more charge points  - of course  - but to expect gasoline type traffic or big profits is not going to happen  


    BTW. I thought talk of charging times and such a as off limits and silly. 
     


    Re: Charging network in Germany

     Omg buddy, you HAVE to find something negative there. 

    Yes 95+% of EV cars owners charge at home, or at work. But there are still some people that fear their ONE long road trip in decades won't make it if they use a EV. Having gas stations equipped with chargers would take that excuse out of the equation, thus making a EV an option for their next car when they won't consider one before.

    It's also good for those that park on the streets and not in garages with chargers. Now they can also consider getting an EV as they can almost charge a EV like refuelling a car at every street corner. 

     


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    Re: Charging network in Germany

    Whoopsy:

    Now if only the rest of Europe, and North America, adopt the same thing, chargers at every gas station. No need for super long range batteries, and lighter EVs also.

     

     

    Since the covid crisis and the consequences on the car industry, the state having to save Renault , France has decided that it would be only on the condition EV will be pushed AND charging infrastructures be implemented on a large scale. 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: Charging network in Germany

    Whoopsy:

     Omg buddy, you HAVE to find something negative there. 

    Yes 95+% of EV cars owners charge at home, or at work. But there are still some people that fear their ONE long road trip in decades won't make it if they use a EV. Having gas stations equipped with chargers would take that excuse out of the equation, thus making a EV an option for their next car when they won't consider one before.

    It's also good for those that park on the streets and not in garages with chargers. Now they can also consider getting an EV as they can almost charge a EV like refuelling a car at every street corner. 

     

    Gas stations and electric charging points are not the same concept. It may appear to you that this makes sense but it does not. Do you really own an EV?  
    You need charging points where people park and leave their cars.  In parking lots or home garages or apartment lots. Gas stations exist to handle a dangerous flammable fuel so it can be distributed and dispensed.  This has nothing at all to do with electricity.  It is literally everywhere so you tap into it where it makes most sense.  You don’t go down to the old barber shop to plug in your rechargeable razor. Back to buying light bulbs at candle shops. Think.   People don’t need to plug their smartphone in next their old land line or mailbox.  People buy EVs to never return to a gas station. I get that gas stations would want to get their customers back and legislation is about the only way. Lol 
    Not only do the two technologies  have nothing in common but you will be creating many charge points not needed in places where no one will want to use them. It sounds nice and smart until you think about it a bit. Of course you can also watch it unfold for yourself. 
    Im looking forward to an endless stream of illogical arguments and name calling. Lol. It’s okay. I can stand my ground as well as anyone. This would be an excellent time to admit it is a silly ass idea. 


    Re: Charging network in Germany

    On European highways the only places to stop and park and have a coffee while you wait or buy something to the bathroom, etc is were the gas stations are, they are made for cars stopping there, makes perfect sense to allow EVs to use that infrastructure that is already there to charge their cars if the have to. Same for country roads.

    By using the facilities intended for petrol cars that are already there you can build a charging spot network much quicker then having to build dedicated EV only areas which would not have the same level of amenities at the start anyway since their traffic will be much less than petrol stations until years to come.

    Usually people charge their cars at home anyway, this is for charging on the road anyway.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Charging network in Germany

    The plan for France is to deploy more than 100,000 charging station From now till the next 18 months. Sweet dream but you need a target. 


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Charging network in Germany

    the-missile:

    The plan for France is to deploy more than 100,000 charging station From now till the next 18 months. Sweet dream but you need a target. 

    I’m just saying they will not be as busy as anticipated or used the same way. Apples to oranges big time. This is also a rapidly moving technology and therefore a hard target.  If all of you also had gas stations at home how often would you find yourself at gas station?  Only for long trips. What percent of the time is that?  
     


    Re: Charging network in Germany

    Leawood911:
    the-missile:

    The plan for France is to deploy more than 100,000 charging station From now till the next 18 months. Sweet dream but you need a target. 

    I’m just saying they will not be as busy as anticipated or used the same way. Apples to oranges big time. This is also a rapidly moving technology and therefore a hard target.  If all of you also had gas stations at home how often would you find yourself at gas station?  Only for long trips. What percent of the time is that?  
     

    What is stopping me to have an EV car in UAE is the socket at the basement of the building. I do not care about charging station everywhere. If I was residing back in France, condition would be the same. you need charger at home. I agree, we still need to have charger deployment but not as important as having it at home. I think they are betting on the wrong horse again as it would be more efficient to lower the cost of EV cars (I believe this is current issue for the average Joe) by offering incentive or putting money into the R&D for the same. Smiley


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Charging network in Germany

    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:

     Omg buddy, you HAVE to find something negative there. 

    Yes 95+% of EV cars owners charge at home, or at work. But there are still some people that fear their ONE long road trip in decades won't make it if they use a EV. Having gas stations equipped with chargers would take that excuse out of the equation, thus making a EV an option for their next car when they won't consider one before.

    It's also good for those that park on the streets and not in garages with chargers. Now they can also consider getting an EV as they can almost charge a EV like refuelling a car at every street corner. 

     

    Gas stations and electric charging points are not the same concept. It may appear to you that this makes sense but it does not. Do you really own an EV?  
    You need charging points where people park and leave their cars.  In parking lots or home garages or apartment lots. Gas stations exist to handle a dangerous flammable fuel so it can be distributed and dispensed.  This has nothing at all to do with electricity.  It is literally everywhere so you tap into it where it makes most sense.  You don’t go down to the old barber shop to plug in your rechargeable razor. Back to buying light bulbs at candle shops. Think.   People don’t need to plug their smartphone in next their old land line or mailbox.  People buy EVs to never return to a gas station. I get that gas stations would want to get their customers back and legislation is about the only way. Lol 
    Not only do the two technologies  have nothing in common but you will be creating many charge points not needed in places where no one will want to use them. It sounds nice and smart until you think about it a bit. Of course you can also watch it unfold for yourself. 
    Im looking forward to an endless stream of illogical arguments and name calling. Lol. It’s okay. I can stand my ground as well as anyone. This would be an excellent time to admit it is a silly ass idea. 

     

    Then why is Tesla deploying on a very big scale their own Supercharger network? And always promoting the fact that they have the most complete coverage of chargers?

     

     

     


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    Re: Charging network in Germany

    Whoopsy:
    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:

     Omg buddy, you HAVE to find something negative there. 

    Yes 95+% of EV cars owners charge at home, or at work. But there are still some people that fear their ONE long road trip in decades won't make it if they use a EV. Having gas stations equipped with chargers would take that excuse out of the equation, thus making a EV an option for their next car when they won't consider one before.

    It's also good for those that park on the streets and not in garages with chargers. Now they can also consider getting an EV as they can almost charge a EV like refuelling a car at every street corner. 

     

    Gas stations and electric charging points are not the same concept. It may appear to you that this makes sense but it does not. Do you really own an EV?  
    You need charging points where people park and leave their cars.  In parking lots or home garages or apartment lots. Gas stations exist to handle a dangerous flammable fuel so it can be distributed and dispensed.  This has nothing at all to do with electricity.  It is literally everywhere so you tap into it where it makes most sense.  You don’t go down to the old barber shop to plug in your rechargeable razor. Back to buying light bulbs at candle shops. Think.   People don’t need to plug their smartphone in next their old land line or mailbox.  People buy EVs to never return to a gas station. I get that gas stations would want to get their customers back and legislation is about the only way. Lol 
    Not only do the two technologies  have nothing in common but you will be creating many charge points not needed in places where no one will want to use them. It sounds nice and smart until you think about it a bit. Of course you can also watch it unfold for yourself. 
    Im looking forward to an endless stream of illogical arguments and name calling. Lol. It’s okay. I can stand my ground as well as anyone. This would be an excellent time to admit it is a silly ass idea. 

     

    Then why is Tesla deploying on a very big scale their own Supercharger network? And always promoting the fact that they have the most complete coverage of chargers?

     

     

     

    For the few times people want to take the cars across the country. It is a nice party trick and would be a big deal if not possible. But you don’t need as many as gas stations. Hello. Try to follow along. 


    Re: Charging network in Germany

    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:
    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:

     Omg buddy, you HAVE to find something negative there. 

    Yes 95+% of EV cars owners charge at home, or at work. But there are still some people that fear their ONE long road trip in decades won't make it if they use a EV. Having gas stations equipped with chargers would take that excuse out of the equation, thus making a EV an option for their next car when they won't consider one before.

    It's also good for those that park on the streets and not in garages with chargers. Now they can also consider getting an EV as they can almost charge a EV like refuelling a car at every street corner. 

     

    Gas stations and electric charging points are not the same concept. It may appear to you that this makes sense but it does not. Do you really own an EV?  
    You need charging points where people park and leave their cars.  In parking lots or home garages or apartment lots. Gas stations exist to handle a dangerous flammable fuel so it can be distributed and dispensed.  This has nothing at all to do with electricity.  It is literally everywhere so you tap into it where it makes most sense.  You don’t go down to the old barber shop to plug in your rechargeable razor. Back to buying light bulbs at candle shops. Think.   People don’t need to plug their smartphone in next their old land line or mailbox.  People buy EVs to never return to a gas station. I get that gas stations would want to get their customers back and legislation is about the only way. Lol 
    Not only do the two technologies  have nothing in common but you will be creating many charge points not needed in places where no one will want to use them. It sounds nice and smart until you think about it a bit. Of course you can also watch it unfold for yourself. 
    Im looking forward to an endless stream of illogical arguments and name calling. Lol. It’s okay. I can stand my ground as well as anyone. This would be an excellent time to admit it is a silly ass idea. 

     

    Then why is Tesla deploying on a very big scale their own Supercharger network? And always promoting the fact that they have the most complete coverage of chargers?

     

     

     

    For the few times people want to take the cars across the country. It is a nice party trick and would be a big deal if not possible. But you don’t need as many as gas stations. Hello. Try to follow along. 

     

    Tesla's Supercharger network is propriety network, only Teslas can use them, it is of no use to the general public. These charging stations however are 'public' public, any EV can use them, even Teslas, much more useful to the proliferation movement for EVs.

    It's just for the convenience with at least one charging plug on each gas station for those that actually need a charge while on their journey.  Not all will be used at the same time, or even at all, but it's there if needed.

    It's like toilets. You have one at home, you have one at work. Why do people need public ones at malls and gas stations etc? You may not need a public toilet ever in your life, but IF there is such an occasion, you'll be glad there is one somewhere around you.

     


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    Re: Charging network in Germany

    Whoopsy:
    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:
    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:

     Omg buddy, you HAVE to find something negative there. 

    Yes 95+% of EV cars owners charge at home, or at work. But there are still some people that fear their ONE long road trip in decades won't make it if they use a EV. Having gas stations equipped with chargers would take that excuse out of the equation, thus making a EV an option for their next car when they won't consider one before.

    It's also good for those that park on the streets and not in garages with chargers. Now they can also consider getting an EV as they can almost charge a EV like refuelling a car at every street corner. 

     

    Gas stations and electric charging points are not the same concept. It may appear to you that this makes sense but it does not. Do you really own an EV?  
    You need charging points where people park and leave their cars.  In parking lots or home garages or apartment lots. Gas stations exist to handle a dangerous flammable fuel so it can be distributed and dispensed.  This has nothing at all to do with electricity.  It is literally everywhere so you tap into it where it makes most sense.  You don’t go down to the old barber shop to plug in your rechargeable razor. Back to buying light bulbs at candle shops. Think.   People don’t need to plug their smartphone in next their old land line or mailbox.  People buy EVs to never return to a gas station. I get that gas stations would want to get their customers back and legislation is about the only way. Lol 
    Not only do the two technologies  have nothing in common but you will be creating many charge points not needed in places where no one will want to use them. It sounds nice and smart until you think about it a bit. Of course you can also watch it unfold for yourself. 
    Im looking forward to an endless stream of illogical arguments and name calling. Lol. It’s okay. I can stand my ground as well as anyone. This would be an excellent time to admit it is a silly ass idea. 

     

    Then why is Tesla deploying on a very big scale their own Supercharger network? And always promoting the fact that they have the most complete coverage of chargers?

     

     

     

    For the few times people want to take the cars across the country. It is a nice party trick and would be a big deal if not possible. But you don’t need as many as gas stations. Hello. Try to follow along. 

     

    Tesla's Supercharger network is propriety network, only Teslas can use them, it is of no use to the general public. These charging stations however are 'public' public, any EV can use them, even Teslas, much more useful to the proliferation movement for EVs.

    It's just for the convenience with at least one charging plug on each gas station for those that actually need a charge while on their journey.  Not all will be used at the same time, or even at all, but it's there if needed.

    It's like toilets. You have one at home, you have one at work. Why do people need public ones at malls and gas stations etc? You may not need a public toilet ever in your life, but IF there is such an occasion, you'll be glad there is one somewhere around you.

     

    Yes you are right. What were we talking about?  Lol.  Lots of plugs. Good.  Tesla bad. Got it. Maybe hybrids can have hybrid pumps that pump gas and charge electricity at the same time.  Btw my daughter has wanted to open an Ice Cream shop / nail salon since she was five. 
    happy Saturday everyone. Down at the lake with too much heat and time on my hands. Wish you were here. Infamous lake of the ozark virus parties and all. Turns out tons of beer, warm lake water and a lack of nearby restrooms kills the virus if your naked. 


    Re: Charging network in Germany

    Leawood911:
    Infamous lake of the ozark 

    I liked the first two seasons ....but in the last one they over do it. 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: Charging network in Germany

    Whoopsy:

     Omg buddy, you HAVE to find something negative there. 

    Yes 95+% of EV cars owners charge at home, or at work. But there are still some people that fear their ONE long road trip in decades won't make it if they use a EV. Having gas stations equipped with chargers would take that excuse out of the equation, thus making a EV an option for their next car when they won't consider one before.

    It's also good for those that park on the streets and not in garages with chargers. Now they can also consider getting an EV as they can almost charge a EV like refuelling a car at every street corner. 

     

    What is more interesting is actually the fact that for business owners, EVs are much more attractive now (0.25% instead of 1% for petrol engines). Meaning. If you buy or lease an EV, the tax office considers only 0.25% from the list price as a "gain", not 1%. For a Taycan Turbo S, this is a huge difference. Instead of let's say 2400 EUR per month gain, you only get to "pay" 600 EUR. I am actually thinking now about getting a Taycan Turbo (not S) as a business car, not quite sure yet, depends on the lease offer.

    Charging at home in Germany is a no go option, way too expensive. Charging at fuel stations is great but...one charger is not enough and it would need to be a "supercharger" or some sorts of it. If they install those crappy chargers like in my Porsche centre, I cannot wait 25 minutes for a 25 km range charge, this is ridiculous. This would require to wait 200-250 minutes for a full charge. Nope. Smiley

    The only "serious" charging network in Germany seems to be the Ionity network but prices are not attractive, unless you have a special agreement with them through manufacturers and/or your business.

    https://ionity.eu/en


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: Charging network in Germany

    Just to clarify RC, what exactly is too expensive about the home charging?  The up front cost of a high-amperage charging port, or the actual electricity costs as you use it?


    --

    2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2019 Porsche 911 Turbo


    Re: Charging network in Germany

    4trac:

    Just to clarify RC, what exactly is too expensive about the home charging?  The up front cost of a high-amperage charging port, or the actual electricity costs as you use it?

    Electricity cost...up to 5x higher than in the US for example. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


     
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