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    Formula One Spanish GP

    Just a reminder that this weekend is the F1 GP of Spain. All 115,000 tickes are sold out. A record.

    Alonso comes in as leader in the championship and will be racing at home, but the McLaren and Ferrari 2005 cars have proven to be faster now than the Renault car, so who knows who will win. Alonso will have to drive 110% to be able to compete. I just hope Kimi's car is reliable this time.

    Montoya will be back in the seat BTW


    Also, two teams are generating some controversy.
    First is BAR Honda who may be kicked out of the championship if its proven that they used a hidden illegal extra gas tank in Imola, and the car was lighter than 600kg rule. And now, two ex-Honda mechanics are comming out to testify and bring evidence of this to the FIA trial being held now in Paris, if true they will recieve a big $$$ reward.
    Then there is Ferrari who is the only team that is not following the agreement of the teams to limit the number of tets&developmnet hours of the F1 cars in order to keep the costs of F1 down. Ferrari does not comply with this limit and cheats by doing more testing than all the other teams. If you can't win by the rules then cheat...



    Re: Formula One Spanish GP

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    First is BAR Honda who may be kicked out of the championship if its proven that they used a hidden illegal extra gas tank in Imola, and the car was lighter than 600kg rule. And now, two ex-Honda mechanics are comming out to testify and bring evidence of this to the FIA trial being held now in Paris, if true they will recieve a big $$$ reward.





    Re: Formula One Spanish GP

    I hope they don't go to that extreme of banning BAR Honda for the whole season, that would be to extreme in my view, but its one of the posible penalties given the severity of the charges.

    Tomorrow the FIA will reach the final ruling and penalty, if any.

    Re: Formula One Spanish GP

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Then there is Ferrari who is the only team that is not following the agreement of the teams to limit the number of tets&developmnet hours of the F1 cars in order to keep the costs of F1 down. Ferrari does not comply with this limit and cheats by doing more testing than all the other teams. If you can't win by the rules then cheat...





    You know, there are rules in this sport, and Ferrari is 100% legal on this. As the only major team running Bridgestone they are at a distinct disadvantage in testing miles that their additional testing still does not begin to make up. Alonso has his head up his ass when he claims Ferrari is cheating, it just makes him look like a whiner since it is perfectly legal. From F1-Live: "Alonso's claims that Ferrari are cheating are actually wide of the mark as the Italian Champions have been perfectly up-front in the fact that they decided not to join the remaining nine teams in limiting testing this year. According to the FIA, this is completely legal as they do not dictate testing regulation."


    BAR on the other hand, that is another matter entirely, but if they are banned it will be very bad for the sport, only 18 cars on the grid would not be good at all.

    Gary

    Re: Formula One Spanish GP

    They are 100% legal since its not an official regulation but its an gentleman's aggreement by ALL F1 teams (including Jordan and Minardi) in order to keeps costs down, F1's MAYOR enemy and problem which is killing Formula One. No matter if you are using a new engine you want to make more reliable or get more HP, or trying to get info/data to make better tire choices, or trying to fix aerodinamic problems... every one agreed in no more in-season testing than that what was stipulated by all the teams, yet Ferrari was caught this week again "red"handed doing testing, trying to gain even more advantage while others were following the agreement.
    Ferrari are the ONLY ones that do not respect the agreement and openly test more than the other teams... take it how you like it, but I call that cheating, and I would call it the same thing if it were my favorite team doing it as well, that won't bend my standards... .

    Re: Formula One Spanish GP

    Carlos, don't take this the wrong way, but your bias against the Ferrari F1 team reminds me of Nick

    Re: Formula One Spanish GP

    Quote:
    Danny G said:
    Carlos, don't take this the wrong way, but your bias against the Ferrari F1 team reminds me of Nick


    Well said!

    Regarding the massive testing done by Ferrari, you can also see it this way:

    Ferrari is the only top-team (next to Jordan and Minardi ) in the whole F1-circuit, that still has those Bridgestone tires.
    All the other teams prefer Michelin. As a result, Michelin has something like three-, four-times more testing kilometres than Bridgestone. And except for Imola, Michelin had the far better tires, thanks to all that testing that had been done by so many teams. So if Ferrari wants to improve on that very crucial sector and close the gap betweeen Michelin and Bridgestone, it simply HAS TO DO A LOT MORE TESTING, because Minardi and Jordan won't be of any help.
    Chassis- and engine-wise, Ferrari would not need that excessive testing.

    Re: Formula One Spanish GP

    The Ferrari Formula One Team is ungentlemanlike and suspicious as usual.
    Their top driver is a psychotic maniac who will stop at nothing (proven many times during his carreer) to win a race - let alone the championship.
    The team sucks this season, so they start cheating to make up for the lost points. I'm not surprised.

    Worst part of this is, everytime I see a Ferrari on the street (a brand that I normally really like and admire) I also see Schumacher, that fat little French guy next to him and Hector Goebbels or whatever the team leader is called... and that kinda spoils the image of Ferrari for me

    Jees, I almost sound like a reverse Nick!

    Re: Formula One Spanish GP

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    The Ferrari Formula One Team is ungentlemanlike and suspicious as usual.
    Their top driver is a psychotic maniac who will stop at nothing (proven many times during his carreer) to win a race - let alone the championship.
    The team sucks this season, so they start cheating to make up for the lost points. I'm not surprised.

    Worst part of this is, everytime I see a Ferrari on the street (a brand that I normally really like and admire) I also see Schumacher, that fat little French guy next to him and Hector Goebbels or whatever the team leader is called... and that kinda spoils the image of Ferrari for me

    Jees, I almost sound like a reverse Nick!



    Only's Nick's writing skills are much better than yours but we know english is not your mother tongue so it's cool.

    Ferrari is coming back, Spanish GP should be awesome!

    Re: Formula One Spanish GP

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    F1-circuit, that still has those Bridgestone tires.
    All the other teams prefer Michelin. As a result, Michelin has something like three-, four-times more testing kilometres than Bridgestone. And except for Imola, Michelin had the far better tires, thanks to all that testing that had been done by so many teams. So if Ferrari wants to improve on that very crucial sector and close the gap betweeen Michelin and Bridgestone, it simply HAS TO DO A LOT MORE TESTING, because Minardi and Jordan won't be of any help.



    Sorry, but that just doesnt ring true in real life.
    As far as I know the teams dont exchange data or experiences with their tire testing...so no matter how much other teams had tested the Bridgestone tires, I dont think Ferrari would benefit from this at all.
    And Bridgestone has always developed their F1 tires to their premiere client; Ferrari, so it really doent matter what other, inferior, teams might want or conclude from testing. Bridgestone will first ans foremost follow Ferraris input.
    How do I know all this?
    I am clairvoyant...and the Guru!

    Whoohoo!

    Re: Formula One Spanish GP

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    The Ferrari Formula One Team is ungentlemanlike and suspicious as usual.
    Their top driver is a psychotic maniac who will stop at nothing (proven many times during his carreer) to win a race - let alone the championship.
    The team sucks this season, so they start cheating to make up for the lost points. I'm not surprised.

    Worst part of this is, everytime I see a Ferrari on the street (a brand that I normally really like and admire) I also see Schumacher, that fat little French guy next to him and Hector Goebbels or whatever the team leader is called... and that kinda spoils the image of Ferrari for me

    Jees, I almost sound like a reverse Nick!



    Well, after that post and your last comments in the Ferrari section, I really believe you are in an advanced state of schizophrenia.

    Re: Formula One Spanish GP

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    Only's Nick's writing skills are much better than yours but we know english is not your mother tongue so it's cool.



    You're right. My english is horrendous and I hardly know how to express myself. Maybe I should start developing my biased pro-Ferrari writing style...maybe that would help me?

    Monsigneur Pilli La Doque
    Le Pimp et Le Guru

    Re: Formula One Spanish GP

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Sorry, but that just doesnt ring true in real life.
    As far as I know the teams dont exchange data or experiences with their tire testing...so no matter how much other teams had tested the Bridgestone tires, I dont think Ferrari would benefit from this at all.
    And Bridgestone has always developed their F1 tires to their premiere client; Ferrari, so it really doent matter what other, inferior, teams might want or conclude from testing. Bridgestone will first ans foremost follow Ferraris input.
    How do I know all this?
    I am clairvoyant...and the Guru!



    The more you test, the more data you achieve, the better you can develop an improve. It's as simple as this.

    And I'd guess you more of a fruitcake...or a weirdo!

    Re: Formula One Spanish GP

    No dearest Rossi.
    It's just called "humour" and "irony".
    Don't worry, some day the trend will hit Germany, too - and zen everizing vill be zo mutz more kleer!

    Re: Formula One Spanish GP

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    And I'd guess you more of a fruitcake...or a weirdo!



    Uhhhmm! Fruitcake!!! Got some?

    Re: Formula One Spanish GP

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    And I'd guess you more of a fruitcake...or a weirdo!



    Uhhhmm! Fruitcake!!! Got some?


    Jam-jam!

    Re: Formula One Spanish GP

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    No dearest Rossi.
    It's just called "humour" and "irony".
    Don't worry, some day the trend will hit Germany, too - and zen everizing vill be zo mutz more kleer!



    My sweet and sickly Dr. Phil,
    I got a whole pack of what you call humour and irony, but a Goebbels has nothing to do with it IMHO.

    Re: Formula One Spanish GP

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Ferrari is the only top-team (next to Jordan and Minardi ) in the whole F1-circuit, that still has those Bridgestone tires.


    I didn't see them complaining about that last year, for example, when the tires were a significant part of their superiority. NOW they're whining?
    What they do is not illegal, but it's not honorable either.

    Re: Formula One Spanish GP

    Quote:
    brunner said:
    I didn't see them complaining about that last year, for example, when the tires were a significant part of their superiority. NOW they're whining?




    Nope, not whining, just testing. And it would only be dishonorable if they had joined in the agreement and broken it. Since they disagreed from the start, they are not honor-bound to adhere to an agreement made by other teams. The whole idea is ridiculous.

    Gary

    Re: Formula One Spanish GP

    Quote:
    tdf360 said:
    Nope, not whining, just testing. And it would only be dishonorable if they had joined in the agreement and broken it. Since they disagreed from the start, they are not honor-bound to adhere to an agreement made by other teams. The whole idea is ridiculous.

    Gary

    Gary


    I second that. Ferrai only agree to count the total distance test by the tire supplier. Certainly, other teams that use Bridgestone don't agree. You can argue about that. But a story always have two sides.

    Also, although the teams don't share data, Michelin has all the data to improve their tires.

    Re: Formula One Spanish GP

    1* Ferari's tires have proven at the last race to be on par at least with Michelins, yet since then, they have done 20 test days!! ... instead of the 6 test days of the rest of the teams!. Thats more than 3 times, ridiculous.

    2* You'd have to look into yourself for bias if you believe that testing is spent in developing tires only. What they are testing is their new carbon gearbox which has shown serous reliability problems, which has knocked Bari out in the last races. While they're at it, with 20 days of testing, they will be also developing the engine and aerodinamics futher while the other can't for an even greater unfair advantage over the other cars.

    3* Even if the Bridgestones need more develpment, so do other teams engines or aerodinamics, etc. especially lower budget teams. And it was Ferrari's tactical choice to go with Bridgestone alone, and not Michelins. And those Bridgestones gave them such advantage last year that gave them the championship. You dind't see Michelin teams other teams winning and cheating. If you make a choice and doesn't play at your advantage this year, you have to stick to it and do you best, thats honest competition.

    4* The reason for the limited testing days in-season, that ALL the teams, inluding the other Bridegetsone teams, EXCEPT Ferrari, is to save Formuala One. The costs are seriously killing it and pretty soon either all the teams (except Ferrari) will leave and we will have only GP-2, or the F1 teams except Ferrari (they have had talks and its being cosidered) will leave this circus and Bernie Ecclestone and create a new championship. And Ferrari can't race alone by themselves. Ferrari is the only team that comply and are true to their "left-handed" history.

    To develop the Bridgestones... yeah right!

    If the F fans want to use a double standard due to their bias and excuse Ferrari's behaviour thats fine with me, but I cvertainly wont. Like I said, I would of said the same thing if it was any other team. I used to cheer for Ferarri, believe it or not, when they started to surface with Schummi years ago, but after Ferrari's tactics and Schummi's wicked sense of sportiveness, they are not at the top of my list anymore in the last years.

    If you see the F2005 fly over the competition car-wise this weekend after Imola with all the extra testing we will know why... sad. Lets just hope the "driver" beats the "car" this weekend

    Re: Formula One Spanish GP

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    1* Ferari's tires have proven at the last race to be on par at least with Michelins yet since then they have done 20 test days
    !! instead of the 6 test days of the rest of the teams . Thats more than 3 times ridiculous.

    2* You'd have to look into yourself for bias if you believe that testing is spent in developing tires only. What they are testing is their new carbon gearbox which has shown serous reliability problems, which has knocked Bari out in the last races. While their at it with 20 days of testing they will be also developing the engine and aerodinamics for an even gerater unfair advantage over the other cars.

    3* Even if the Bridgestones need more develpment, so do other teams engines or aerodinamics, etc. and its Ferrari's tactical choice to go with Birgestone alone, and not Michelins. And those Bridgestones gave them such advantage last year that gave them the championship. You dind't see Michelin teams other teams winnig and cheating.

    4* The reason for the limited testing days in season that ALL the teams, inluding the other Bridegetsone teams, EXCEPT Ferrari is to save Formuala One. The costs are killing it and preety soon either all the teams (except Ferrari) will leave and we will have either only GP-2 or the F1 teams except Ferrari will leave this circus and Bernie Ecclestone and create a new championship. And Ferrari can't race alone. Ferrari is the only team that doesn't care and are true to their "left-handed" history.

    To develop the Bridgestones... yeah right! :grin
    If those F fans want to use a double standard due to their bias and excuse Ferrai's behaviour that fine with me but I wont. I used to cheer for Ferarri, believe it or not, when they started to surface with Schummi, but after Ferrari's tactics and Schummi's wicked sense of sportiveness, they are not atb the top of my list anymore. And this not adhereing to the limited testing to save F1 is ridiculous.

    If you see the F2005 fly over the competition car-wise this weekend after Imola with all the extra testing we will know why... sad.



    Carlos for President!

    Re: Formula One Spanish GP

    Quote:

    4* The reason for the limited testing days in-season, that ALL the teams, inluding the other Bridegetsone teams, EXCEPT Ferrari, is to save Formuala One. The costs are seriously killing it and pretty soon either all the teams (except Ferrari) will leave and we will have only GP-2, or the F1 teams except Ferrari (they have had talks and its being cosidered) will leave this circus and Bernie Ecclestone and create a new championship. And Ferrari can't race alone by themselves. Ferrari is the only team that comply and are true to their "left-handed" history.



    to believe in the argumentation of the non-ferrari teams that their voluntary limitation of testing days is noble and just to reduce costs is silly.

    btw, the FIA is making the rules. no one else is.

    Re: Formula One Spanish GP

    1. The last race was on Apr 24, today is May 5. How could you calculate 20 days of testing?
    2. I agree with the statement about the engine. But aerodynamic affect the tires' durability, traction, etc...
    3. Well, if Ferrari choose Michelins this yr, they need even more testing as tires is one of the important total packages. Then, you will argue, they do even more more testing...
    4. You'd have to look into yourself for bias if you believe that cost is the only reasons. Which team (except Ferrari) wants Ferrari win only?

    Re: Formula One Spanish GP

    If limiting costs is such a serious concern among the teams and FIA officials, wouldn't it make more sense to just prohibit in-season testing instead of making a "gentlemans agreement"? Isn't the one engine per race rule based on a similar concern?

    And as for that GP-2 idea, Ferrari has the largest fanbase out of all the teams, they would lose a lot of viewership and fan following with such a move. Futhermore, how would it look to people who are not very knowledgeable about F1 politics that Ferrari gets ostracized from racing just because they are too dominent -- and that's how the press would spin it.

    Re: Formula One Spanish GP

    iia, 20 days I was refering to was between Bahrain and Imola, rest bof the teams did 6 days testing.

    Danny, changiang FIA regualtions is a slow and difficulat process, and with then opposition from Ferrari even more so, there is a lot of sleezy politics involved, so sometimes the teams are one step ahead of the FIA.

    Re: Formula One Spanish GP

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Just a reminder that this weekend is the F1 GP of Spain. All 115,000 tickes are sold out. A record.

    Alonso comes in as leader in the championship and will be racing at home, but the McLaren and Ferrari 2005 cars have proven to be faster now than the Renault car, so who knows who will win. Alonso will have to drive 110% to be able to compete. I just hope Kimi's car is reliable this time.






    Ahh yes, the Barcelona GP, I was there two years ago, great venue! Alonso was quite popular back then as well, but it is nothing compared to this year. Wish I was there, but I'm going to Silverstone in july

    Even though I have been a Ferrari F1 fan since '92 I say: Go Alonso Go!
    He has been the most impressive driver so far this season and he can definitely become the champion this year since he is not only fast but also drives with his head, as he showed at Imola.

    I don't think Kimi is as good as Alonso, he tends to drive the car a bit hard and he's also in the McBreakdown which doesn't help

    All in all, I'm looking forward to a fantastic fight between Alonso and MS in Barcelona.

    Re: Formula One Spanish GP

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    No dearest Rossi.
    It's just called "humour" and "irony".
    Don't worry, some day the trend will hit Germany, too - and zen everizing vill be zo mutz more kleer!



    My sweet and sickly Dr. Phil,
    I got a whole pack of what you call humour and irony, but a Goebbels has nothing to do with it IMHO.



    exactly.

    dr phil,
    sometimes you are trying too hard to be "humourous" and "ironic". irony is no irony if has its end in itself.

    Re: Formula One Spanish GP

    Quote:
    temm said:

    All in all, I'm looking forward to a fantastic fight between Alonso and MS in Barcelona.



    Exactly, thats what matters in the end, I hope neither of them breakdown or anything, and that neither car is vastly superior to any other during the race so we get a good "drivers" fight till the last lap that we can all enjoy

    Re: Formula One Spanish GP

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    temm said:

    All in all, I'm looking forward to a fantastic fight between Alonso and MS in Barcelona.



    Exactly, thats what matters in the end, I hope neither of them breakdown or anything, and that neither car is vastly superior to any other during the race so we get a good "drivers" fight till the last lap that we can all enjoy



    agreed

    and allow me one more word to the "testing issue": F1 is all about competition IMHO. to kind of "freeze" car development after the season starts is no solution. isn't it great that ferrari and bridgestone are trying so hard to come back?

    reducing costs is necessary, but the FIA should make the rules. where will you draw the line? it would also reduce costs if you forbid usage of wind tunnels, break down dennis' paragon temple or lay off all renault hostesses (hand picked by flavio )

     
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