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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:
    CGX car nut:
    noone1:

    Few achievements? Tesla is pretty much responsible for the entire EV movement and the Model 3 just got 350 miles of range. Can't why to see the range on the $200K Mission E.

    Stringent emission standards are responsible for the current rush toward electrification, not Tesla’s glowing successes. 

    Stringent emissions standards were led by California which has a vested interest to see Tesla succeed and push their ultra liberal agenda at the same time. Without Tesla who’s to say the standards would be this stringent? You usually come up with better arguments than that Smiley

    And sorry but saying that Tesla success has nothing to do with the current race to EV is just simply ridiculous.

    Then Dieselgate was nothing.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Dieselgate was just VAG being shady fucks because they didn't want to spend the money to properly engineer the car. And hey, it only costs the $25B LOL

    Imagine what kind of amazing EVs they'd have today had they spent that $25B back in 2010.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Dieselgate was mostly a VW issue, and emission standards did not change because of dieselgate since they weren’t even respecting them in the first place!


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    California had little to do with present emission standards. They initially lead the fight for the catalytic converters and car pollution no longer became a major issue. What led the revolt toward EV was the fossil fuel issue regarding shortages and the attendant consequences.


    --

    Where the willingness is great, the difficulties cannot be great.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    crayphile:
    Boxster Coupe GTS:
    Maybe they can introduce a new firmware update to improve Tesla production volumes and convert negative gross margins and negative cashflow into positive net profits and positive cashflow... Smiley

    Anything is possible in cyberspace.

    Even producing hot air... Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Consumer Reports has told Tesla it will retest the Model 3 following an over-the-air update of the braking system.  So this is in Tesla's obligation to meet.

    Answering the above posts from Noone1, SciFrog, and nberry in reverse order.  CARB has influenced the automotive industry more than catalytic converters.  In 1990, CARB introduced Zero Emission Vehicles I ("ZEV"), that led to the first round of electrification, most notably with the GM's EV-1, as one has noted several times.  ZEV, and its various permutations, define the types of automobiles to be sold in California, and other states in the Union that have adopted the more stringent CARB standards of that of the EPA and have led to the creation of an emission credits market.  Tesla, for example, has profited handsomely from selling its emission credits to other manufacturers.  Continuing the trend, CARB in March 2017, introduced a 54.5 mpg standard for 2025, following the Obama Administration's EPA mandates supporting the same fuel economy standards.  The Trump Administration has since reduced those lofty fuel economy standards.  Inherent in these fuel economy standards are imposed limitations on carbon emissions by automobiles.  The EU and China, on the other hand, impose carbon emission standards, which are the corollary of decreased fuel consumption levels.  

    At a certain fuel economy/carbon emissions level, technology can no longer be cost effective for continued use of fossil fueled internal combustion engines.  We are nearing that transition point as battery technology slowly drops in price.  Tesla may have been the first mover; however, the rest of the industry is being forced to electrification as a direct result of these regulations with China, currently the largest market for new automobiles around 30 million units annually, has mandated a large percentage of EVs be on sale in the next few years.  EU combined with California and those states shadowing CARB next.  

    Many need to realize that small diesel adoption in the EU was a direct result of the fuel tax structure across much of Europe, with diesel fuel being taxed at lower levels than gasoline.  This was originally put into place as diesels are inherently more fuel efficient than gasoline engines, something to do with throttle pumping losses being less, to reduce Europe's dependency on foreign sources of oil.  This was despite several inherent flaws with diesels including incomplete combustion leading to particulate ejection and operating in combustion temperature ranges causing nitrous oxide compound formations.  The automakers successfully were able to meet the earlier emission standards; however, later standards became more onerous for the automakers, especially the lower cost producers.  

    One will never condone what some Volkswagen officials did to circumvent emission standards is unacceptable, but the motivations are also understood.  Using automotive buying patterns in the United States, and assuming similar trends in other RoW markets, 50 million vehicles are sold annually.  Less than one third are new vehicles and over two-thirds are used vehicles, so price is a significant component the average consumer considers for a car purchase.  Emission, fuel economy, and safety standards, while having a net benefit, are viewed as deadweight costs by most consumers.  See Ronald Coase for some academic articles on externalities and spillover costs.  Volkswagen needed to produce cars the fit within a certain cost profile, but engineering found it difficult to meet the required criteria.  Some dishonest employees decided to add so-called cheat devices.  Other drivability and reliability algorithms were later identified by the regulatory bodies as cheat devices too.  One important point to realize is that Volkswagen Group wasn't alone in having issues with emission cheat devices as FCA, PSA, GM/Opel, and Mercedes had issues, albeit lower profile issues, too.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    RC:
    crayphile:
    Boxster Coupe GTS:
    Maybe they can introduce a new firmware update to improve Tesla production volumes and convert negative gross margins and negative cashflow into positive net profits and positive cashflow... Smiley

    Anything is possible in cyberspace.

    Even producing hot air... Smiley Smiley

    Tesla producing profits in the cryptocurrency space, baby!


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    For those old enough to have graduated from college and invested in a private pension fund, it's interesting to note that Tesla has a weighting of 0.63% of the Nasdaq index. So even those without individual stock investments may well have a passive index investment in Tesla.

    Furthermore, there is potential for a larger ‎investment from pension funds in Tesla if it could meet the eligibility criteria of the S&P 500 index. 

    As a reminder, the five main criteria for inclusion in the S&P 500 are:

    (1) Market Cap over $6.1 billion

    (2) Minimum stock trading volumes

    (3) Company domiciled in USA‎

    (4) ‎Public float at least 50% of stock

    (5) Positive aggregate GAAP net income over the past four quarters  ‎

    So although Tesla meets criteria (1) to (4), the lack of positive GAAP net income means it is not yet eligible to join the S&P 500.

    If the company meets its plan to achieve profitability in Q3, Tesla could start on a path towards joining the S&P 500 index and increased weighting in pension and index based funds.

    If the company fails to meet its ambitious financial goals, the possibility of further credit rating downgrades and a Chapter 11 filing could put a small dent in Nasdaq-based funds.

    In summary, it is likely that many of us on Rennteam are naturally long Tesla equity (myself included) while it remains part of the Nasdaq index.

    The success (or otherwise) of Tesla over the next 12 months will certainly have an impact one way or another.

    To state the obvious, those with an individual stock investment (or high yield bond investment) in Tesla (along with those customers with an unsecured deposit) have a larger risk exposure.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    "Tesla hires Snap exec as engineering VP" (Reuters)

    (22 May 2018)

    Electric carmaker Tesla Inc said on Tuesday it had hired Snapchat maker Snap Inc's vice president of monetization engineering, Stuart Bowers, as VP of engineering, to work on its Autopilot software and other projects.

    Tesla has seen the departure of several senior executives and also is flattening its management structure as it aims to improve efficiency and clear up production bottlenecks related to its new Model 3 sedan.

    Snap confirmed the move and said that Bowers had a passion for robotics and would be working on Tesla's semi-autonomous driving program, Autopilot. Tesla said he would work on that and other projects as well.

    Bowers' job at Snap, monetization engineering, involved the social media company's advertising system.

    Link: https://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKCN1IN2R2

    __________

     

    "Tesla picks up new vice-president of engineering from Snap" (FT)

    (22 May 2018)

    Tesla has hired a software engineer from disappearing message company Snap to take a key role that includes working on its autopilot programme, at a time when two crashes have brought close attention to the early-stage self-driving car technology.

    Stuart Bowers, who had been Snap’s head of monetisation engineering, will become vice-president of engineering at the electric carmaker, both companies confirmed on Tuesday.

    Mr Bowers began his career as a software engineer at Microsoft, according to his LinkedIn profile, before spending four years at Facebook, part of it as a product manager in machine learning.

    Tesla did not immediately confirm his new role, though one person familiar with the move said working on autopilot technology was likely to be only one of his responsibilities at the company. In a statement, Snap said Mr Bowers had been hired “as a leader on their autopilot engineering team,” and added: “He has long had a dream to pursue his passion for robotics and we wish him the best.”

    The appointment follows a rapid series of executive changes in Tesla’s autopilot division. Jim Keller, a semiconductor specialist who had headed the programme, left last month to take a job at Intel. 

    Chris Lattner, a former Apple engineer who had been responsible for autopilot software, left Tesla nearly a year ago after only six months at the company.

    Link: https://www.ft.com/content/30ce84be-5dfd-11e8-ad91-e01af256df68

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Tesla Model 3 registrations zip past rivals in California - Reuters https://apple.news/AO9tXfL3sQNGRud86VyzB1g

    Tesla to rally 50% because media negativity is ‘increasingly immaterial’: Baird - CNBC https://apple.news/A95Id3RjhQIGqahaV4eRHQQ

    Tesla is cutting prices in China - CNN Money https://apple.news/Ax0hFYbgpT2aQ-xriSfQzHQ

    Funny how our resident trolls did not even mention probably one of the biggest news for Tesla this year: the 10% cut in car import duties in China


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    Tesla Model 3 registrations zip past rivals in California - Reuters https://apple.news/AO9tXfL3sQNGRud86VyzB1g

    Tesla to rally 50% because media negativity is ‘increasingly immaterial’: Baird - CNBC https://apple.news/A95Id3RjhQIGqahaV4eRHQQ

    Tesla is cutting prices in China - CNN Money https://apple.news/Ax0hFYbgpT2aQ-xriSfQzHQ

    Funny how our resident trolls did not even mention probably one of the biggest news for Tesla this year: the 10% cut in car import duties in China

    Reduced duties were mentioned in a few posts a few weeks ago.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    "Tesla CEO Details Plans for Model 3 Brake Fix"

    Elon Musk responds after Consumer Reports finds a problem with braking performance and other flaws...

    (23 May 2018)

    Tesla will issue an over-the-air update to improve the Model 3’s braking performance this weekend, CEO Elon Musk confirmed to Consumer Reports late Tuesday.

    Musk first mentioned that a fix was coming via Twitter on Monday, after Consumer Reports said it would not recommend the latest Tesla electric car because of several major flaws, including long stopping distances.

    CR measured the Model 3’s stopping distance at 152 feet from 60 mph, which was far worse than any contemporary car we’ve tested. Musk responded by vowing that Tesla would fix the Model 3 braking performance and also make it best in class. “Tesla won’t stop until Model 3 has better braking than any remotely comparable car,” he tweeted Monday.

    Tuesday evening, Musk spoke at length on the phone with our director of auto testing to better understand our findings and share information that Tesla had discovered about the braking issue. (CR frequently speaks with manufacturers to answer detailed questions about our test findings.)

    Musk said that Tesla engineers were attributing the Model 3’s poor braking performance in CR's tests to calibration issues with the car’s braking control system. In a followup email, Musk said his engineering team was validating changes to the braking system this week and “assuming that goes well, plan to deploy via OTA to Model 3 fleet this weekend.”

    During the call, Musk also said that Tesla had already deployed several improvements to later-production Model 3s that could address some of the ride quality and wind noise concerns CR raised with the car, and that he was considering additional improvements to the vehicle’s controls, based on CR’s feedback.

    This isn’t the first time the automaker has used over-the-air updates to address CR findings. In 2016, when CR pointed out that drivers might not be able to stop their vehicles while in “Summon” mode—a system that allows drivers to move or park their cars without anyone sitting in the vehicles—the automaker responded quickly. Within a week of CR notifying Tesla of its findings, the automaker released an update that fixed the problem.

    On the other hand, Tesla owners have sometimes had to wait much longer for critical updates. The company took several months to roll out the software for automatic emergency braking (AEB) to Model S sedans and Model X SUVs with second-generation hardware even though customers were promised AEB would come standard on their vehicles.

    Once an update for the Model 3 is sent to our vehicle CR will conduct more tests, says Jake Fisher, director of auto testing. “If Tesla can update the brakes over the air, we will retest our Model 3,” Fisher says. “It would be an industry first if they could improve brake performance remotely.”

    Link: https://www.consumerreports.org/car-safety/tesla-says-it-will-issue-fix-for-model-3-brakes/


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Since one has been rendered to Tesla troll status, the following link and especially the comments are enlightening, in that trolly sort of way.  http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2018/05/snapchat-parent-tesla-automaker-gains-new-vp-engineering/#postcomments 

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Model Y:

    Expect big improvements from a production standpoint. While the Model 3 was already built with manufacturing in mind, Musk said during the earnings call that "there's no question we could have made the Model 3 much easier to produce than we have." The Model Y, by comparison, will be "a manufacturing revolution" and "incredible from a manufacturing standpoint, because we do not want to go through this pain again."

     

    Deja vu?


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    CGX car nut:

    Since one has been rendered to Tesla troll status, the following link and especially the comments are enlightening, in that trolly sort of way.  http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2018/05/snapchat-parent-tesla-automaker-gains-new-vp-engineering/#postcomments 

     

    Tesla is trying to do things differently. They didn’t raise billions of $$ by saying “we are doing the same as everyone else just a little better”. They say they are going to revolutionize the car industry and in some ways they have already done so. Along the way many mistakes will be done, everyone knows that.

    The short sellers apply mature company metrics to the largest tech startup on the planet. They could be right, or not...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:
    CGX car nut:

    Since one has been rendered to Tesla troll status, the following link and especially the comments are enlightening, in that trolly sort of way.  http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2018/05/snapchat-parent-tesla-automaker-gains-new-vp-engineering/#postcomments 

     

    Tesla is trying to do things differently. They didn’t raise billions of $$ by saying “we are doing the same as everyone else just a little better”. They say they are going to revolutionize the car industry and in some ways they have already done so. Along the way many mistakes will be done, everyone knows that.

    The short sellers apply mature company metrics to the largest tech startup on the planet. They could be right, or not...

    What is so “Techy” about Tesla? That phrase is brandished often yet the business model of Tesla is conventional manufacturing, not Silicon Valley tech with increasing returns.  It doesn’t have low replication costs, nor low CapEx, nor multi-sided platform dynamics.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Wonder how much it costs Chrysler to recall 4.8M cars for software?

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-25/fiat-chrysler-recalls-4-8-million-u-s-cars-to-fix-software-flaw

    I'm guessing it would cost Tesla $375.32 in bandwidth.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    "Apple Signs Deal With Volkswagen for Driverless Cars" (New York Times)

    A Volkswagen T6 Transporter van being assembled in Hanover, Germany. Apple has signed a deal under which Volkswagen is to produce self-driving versions of the van to serve as shuttles for the tech giant’s employees...

    (23 May 2018)

    SAN FRANCISCO — Apple once had grand aspirations to build its own electric self-driving car and lead the next generation of transportation. Over time, the tech giant’s ambitions ran into reality.

    So Apple curtailed its original vision, first by focusing on software for self-driving cars and then by working solely on an autonomous shuttle for its own use with employees. Now, the tech giant has settled for an auto partner that was not its first choice.

    In recent years, Apple sought partnerships with the luxury carmakers BMW and Mercedes-Benz to develop an all-electric self-driving vehicle, according to five people familiar with the negotiations who asked not to be identified because they were not authorized to discuss the matter publicly. But on-again, off-again talks with those companies have ended after each rebuffed Apple’s requirements to hand over control of the data and design, some of the people said.

    Instead, Apple has signed a deal with Volkswagen to turn some of the carmaker’s new T6 Transporter vans into Apple’s self-driving shuttles for employees — a project that is behind schedule and consuming nearly all of the Apple car team’s attention, said three people familiar with the project.

    Apple’s deal with Volkswagen, which has not been previously reported, and the failure of its talks with other automakers reflect the continuing travails and diminished scope of the company’s four-year-old car program.

    The project has suffered from repeated changes in direction that have hurt morale and led to hundreds of departures from its peak of more than 1,000 members two years ago, five former Apple employees said. They added that the project lacked a clear plan beyond the vans, including any near-term commercial goals.

    The fits and starts have most likely put Apple even further behind in the race toward the self-driving future. Waymo, the self-driving business spun out of Google, as well as start-ups and some carmakers have been testing various autonomous vehicles on public roads for years. Some of the programs have hit hurdles — Uber on Wednesday said it was shutting down its self-driving operations in Arizona and laying off about 300 employees in the area — but many have already gathered extensive data on autonomous driving patterns to improve their technology.

    Apple declined to comment.

    Apple originally began its car project — known internally as Titan and T172 — in 2014. At the time, Apple planned to build a single vehicle that would upend society and industry, in what would be the automotive version of the iPhone. The company set to work on an electric driverless car with a lush interior reminiscent of a lounge or living room, where passengers face one another instead of the road, according to two early employees of the project.

    Apple enlisted software programmers, automotive engineers, rocket scientists and the industrial-design team of Apple’s design chief, Jonathan Ive, to reimagine the car. They entertained a series of unconventional concepts, including augmented-reality or holographic displays embedded in windshields and windows, a sunroof made of a special polymer that reduces heat from the sun, and windows with adjustable tints — like those on Boeing’s new 787 Dreamliner jets.

    Two former Apple employees also recalled how their colleagues built a model of a sport-utility vehicle with four seats facing one another, which some employees tested by sitting inside, similar to a design Mercedes advertised in 2015.

    As recently as 2016, Apple planned to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to build research and development labs around its Cupertino, Calif., campus, including a machine shop and labs for electric car batteries, according to interviews and documents about the plans viewed by The New York Times.

    Members of the car project soon found that even designing and building fundamental parts of a new car was not simple. Apple initially intended to build the car in-house, with preliminary discussions of an Apple automotive plant in the south of the United States, two former employees said. But those plans quickly shifted to finding a manufacturing partner to build — but not design — the cars.

    Two former employees said Apple’s requests of partners gradually evolved. At first, the company asked for help building an Apple-designed vehicle. Then, it began asking potential partners to provide foundational car pieces like the chassis and wheels. Eventually, Apple requested that potential partners retrofit their own vehicles with Apple’s sensors and software.

    In late 2015, Apple bought two Lexus S.U.V.s and hired a Virginia firm called Torc Robotics to retrofit the vehicles with sensors, a project known internally as Baja, one former employee said. The fleet has grown, and California regulators have authorized Apple to use 55 such S.U.V.s to run self-driving tests on public roads, the most of any company in the state after General Motors — but still fewer than Waymo has across six states.

    But Apple did not partner with Lexus, and it has long sought a formal partner. The company first worked with Magna Steyr, a Canadian-Austrian contract manufacturer that has produced low-volume vehicles for other automakers, like the Mercedes G-Wagen, according to two former employees. A few dozen Magna Steyr employees joined Apple’s car team in California but gradually left after the partnership ended.

    BMW was long Apple’s top choice, given its focus on high-end but mainstream products, former employees said. Many Apple executives, including the company’s chief executive, Timothy D. Cook, also drive BMWs. Mr. Cook visited BMW as early as 2014 to discuss a partnership, and those on-and-off negotiations continued for years. But a person close to the talks said any deal now appeared dead because both Apple and BMW wanted to own the customer experience and relationship.

    Apple’s other favored choice was Mercedes-Benz, internally code-named Bruce, according to one former employee. The two companies held partnership talks for more than a year, said three people familiar with the discussions. But those negotiations were halted because of similar disagreements over control of the experience and data, said one person close to the talks.

    Apple also met with Nissan in Japan, BYD Auto in China and sports-car maker McLaren in Britain, among other companies, one former employee said. None of the talks resulted in a deal because either the automaker was reluctant to give up control to Apple or Apple was holding out for a more attractive partner.

    Late last year, Apple found that partner in Volkswagen. Buffeted by a scandal around cheating emissions tests — and lagging some rivals in development of self-driving cars — Volkswagen jumped at the chance to work with Apple, former Apple employees said. Volkswagen’s code-name at Apple is Jetstream, one of them said.

    Now, at a lab near Turin, Italy, run by a Volkswagen subsidiary called Italdesign, the companies plan to remake Volkswagen’s T6 vans as electric self-driving shuttles, these people said.

    The frame, wheels and chassis of the T6 vans will remain, but Apple is replacing many components, including the dashboard and seats, said two people familiar with the project. Apple is also adding other computers, sensors and a large electric car battery, they said. The shuttles will ferry employees between two of Apple’s Silicon Valley campuses, and will include a driver behind the wheel to take control if needed, as well as an operator in the passenger’s seat tracking the van’s performance.

    Executives leading Apple’s car project had told Mr. Cook that the shuttle would be completed by the end of 2018, but that deadline will be missed, one former employee said. It is unclear whether Apple’s partnership with Volkswagen will extend beyond the shuttle. 

    Link: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/23/technology/apple-bmw-mercedes-volkswagen-driverless-cars.html


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I really don't know why Apple is still bothering with this. They're too far behind. They should just focus their AI efforts on their core products.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    They will let the others do the hard work and apply their intuitive software competences on top. They just want skin in the game at this point. Makes sense.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    noone1:

    I really don't know why Apple is still bothering with this. They're too far behind. They should just focus their AI efforts on their core products.

     

    Call it their 'other bets' category like Google's own. They are rich enough that whatever is spent one these don't even make a dent.

    Btu then again no one actually knows what Apple already have or have not, their signature secrecy at work. It might turn out that their tech, when formally announced will be lights year ahead of Tesla or Google or whoever.

     

     

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:
    noone1:

    I really don't know why Apple is still bothering with this. They're too far behind. They should just focus their AI efforts on their core products.

     

    Call it their 'other bets' category like Google's own. They are rich enough that whatever is spent one these don't even make a dent.

    Btu then again no one actually knows what Apple already have or have not, their signature secrecy at work. It might turn out that their tech, when formally announced will be lights year ahead of Tesla or Google or whoever.

     

     

     

    Smiley Also, VW may not sound "special" for Americans because Volkswagen has a certain reputation in the US but VW is also Audi, Bentley, Porsche, Lamborghini, Bugatti, Skoda, Seat, Ducati (if they don't sell it), etc., so this is a big deal for Apple...and for VW.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Boxster Coupe GTS:
    lukestern:

    brake.png

    It is mighty impressive to hear that Tesla can reduce Model 3 brake fading with a quick software update... Smiley

    I gather the industry benchmark is for braking performance (i.e. deceleration) to be twice that of the engine performance, so stopping distance should be half that taken to accelerate to a give speed... can Tesla achieve that? Smiley

    Maybe they can introduce a new firmware update to improve Tesla production volumes and convert negative gross margins and negative cashflow into positive net profits and positive cashflow... Smiley

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/30/tesla-model-3-gets-consumer-reports-recommendation-after-braking-update-shares-hit-session-high.html

    Think again?

    I don’t get the part where you don’t understand that they are trying to do things different all the way from building to service and dealers. Expecting this process to happen smoothly is utopian Smiley

    I strolled in the tesla store in Aventura and it was packed with people taking pics and admiring the cars. Especially the X model. Even my wife is warming up to the car nicely now. The screen is just out of this world for a car and the gullwing doors and all glass roof is just icing on the cake. Interior can hold his own to any German sedan expect high optioned ones with full leather. That’s not saying it is the same or better, just saying it doesn’t matter enough to sway a decision. My wife actually said: “just get one as long as you don’t sell the Macan and the RRS”. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Thank you SciFrog! Appreciate the update. That is indeed impressive! Smiley

    The latest update from Consumer Reports on the Model 3...

    "Tesla Model 3 Gets CR Recommendation After Braking Update"

    (30 May 2018)

    Consumer Reports now recommends the Tesla Model 3, after our testers found that a recent over-the-air (OTA) update improved the car’s braking distance by almost 20 feet.  

    The software update came a week after Consumer Reports published test results that showed stopping distances for the Model 3 that were significantly longer than any other contemporary car. That braking performance, along with issues with the Model 3’s controls and ride comfort, initially prevented the car from getting a CR recommendation.

    Last week, after CR’s road test was published, Tesla CEO Elon Musk vowed that the automaker would get a fix out within days.

    Until now, that type of remote improvement to a car’s basic functionality had been unheard of. “I’ve been at CR for 19 years and tested more than 1,000 cars,” says Jake Fisher, director of auto testing at Consumer Reports, “and I’ve never seen a car that could improve its track performance with an over-the-air update.”

    In an email to CR, a Tesla spokeswoman said that the company had improved the software for the Model 3’s antilock braking system to adapt to variations in how the brakes might be used and to respond to different environmental conditions. 

    In CR’s initial review of the Model 3, testers noted that the EV’s 152 feet to stop from 60 mph was 7 feet longer than a Ford F-150 pickup’s stopping distance, and 25 feet longer than Tesla’s own Model X SUV’s. In retesting after the software update was downloaded, the sedan stopped in 133 feet from 60 mph, an improvement of 19 feet.

    The new shorter distance is typical for a compact luxury car and matches the 133 feet that Tesla claims its own testing found, using the same tires as those on our Model 3.

    The improved braking distances raised the Model 3’s Overall Score enough for the car to be recommended by CR, but our testers had other areas of concern as well. They found issues with the Model 3’s wind noise, stiff ride, and uncomfortable rear seat. Last week, Musk told CR in a conversation that the automaker had already made changes to its production line to address those three issues. 

    To see if these changes made a difference, CR is renting another Model 3 from Tesla. CR does not use rental cars in our formal testing, but we will report back on what we find in that car.

    CR also gave notably low marks to the Model 3’s unique controls, which force drivers to make audio, phone, climate, and other changes almost exclusively through a center-mounted touch screen. Musk suggested in the same conversation with CR that some of those problems could be addressed with OTA updates. 

    And it appears that Tesla has already started to deploy some changes to the controls in the latest update. CR testers discovered that the controls for the side-mirror and steering-wheel adjustment on the touch screen now function differently.

    Before the update, our testers expressed concern that those controls were difficult to use while driving, and CR’s Jake Fisher mentioned the potential for distraction to Musk during the phone conversation. Now, when drivers adjust their seat position using the power controls along the edge of the driver’s seat, prompts to adjust the car’s mirrors and steering-wheel position appear on the center touch screen. At first glance, these changes seem to be an improvement, but we need to spend more time evaluating them.

    Finally, Musk suggested in a tweet last week that the company would make the Model 3’s braking performance the best in its class. Although this update improved the car’s stopping distances, the braking performance is not class-leading. So for Tesla to make good on Musk’s promise, it may need additional updates to the braking software.

    In response to a question from CR, Tesla says that it works to “continuously improve our products in pursuit of having the best possible products in every category,” but it did not provide a time line for any future updates.

    CR will continue to evaluate updates and make changes to our scores as necessary.

    Link: https://www.consumerreports.org/car-safety/tesla-model-3-gets-cr-recommendation-after-braking-update/

    ...I'm not sure about all this new fangled technology!   1527611592420image.gif  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    It is not for everyone... yet... they said the same of a certain all screen smartphone in 2008... One key aspect they don;t mention is the voice command. In another car they don’t make sense but here they do...

    Personally I dropped using laptops and my primary device is an iPad Pro so the direction Tesla is taking is the right one for me. If Apple made a car, it would be following the same critical principles. The opinion of an old car journalist on the matter is worth nothing more than the one of a sport journalist about a computerSmiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Having all the controls in menus within a tablet screen in the middle of the dash just shows that the maker is not experienced making cars, they are amateurs designed by silicon valley geeks who don't drive. They just want to give the illusion of being modern and different.

    Anyone with minimal experience in driving knows that the last thing you want to do while driving is having to distract your attention to operate anything, and a big touch screen with menus is just that, there is a reason why you won't find such arrangements on planes or race cars no matter how modern or futuristic, some things you just need in physical buttons with specific functions, only secondary functions you can have on a screen like the entertainment system for example. 

    The reason is simple, you are not in your sofa playing with an iPad, you are driving a vehicle on the public road. The brain cannot multitask, that is a misconception, so the less you take your eyes away from something, the better, the less you have to coordinate your hand-eye to touch something and just feel for it without looking the better, and the less you have to navigate between menus and simply push something the better. There is a reason why no one should ever be texting and driving for example. Distraction is the biggest cause of accidents.

    That will only make sense when TRUE autonomous driving is available and you don't have to pay attention to driving. Then it would be fine. But right now that doesn't exist.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Carlos from Spain:

    Having all the controls in menus within a tablet screen in the middle of the dash just shows that the maker is not experienced making cars, they are amateurs designed by silicon valley geeks who don't drive. They just want to give the illusion of being modern and different.

    Anyone with minimal experience in driving knows that the last thing you want to do while driving is having to distract your attention to operate anything, and a big touch screen with menus is just that, there is a reason why you won't find such arrangements on planes or race cars no matter how modern or futuristic, some things you just need in physical buttons with specific functions, only secondary functions you can have on a screen like the entertainment system for example. 

    The reason is simple, you are not in your sofa playing with an iPad, you are driving a vehicle on the public road. The brain cannot multitask, that is a misconception, so the less you take your eyes away from something, the better, the less you have to coordinate your hand-eye to touch something and just feel for it without looking the better, and the less you have to navigate between menus and simply push something the better. There is a reason why no one should ever be texting and driving for example. Distraction is the biggest cause of accidents.

    That will only make sense when TRUE autonomous driving is available and you don't have to pay attention to driving. Then it would be fine. But right now that doesn't exist.

    LOL, you skillfully managed to ignore the important point about the voice command part...

    Also semi autonomous driving is in perfect sync with the use of the screen, whenever that will really be ready...

    On my RRS, I already spend more time using commands (music and such) on the big screen than the small buttons so all you are saying while true about distraction is already moot. LEt alone the fact that 1 out of 5 people on the road is using their phone anyway.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Carlos from Spain:

    Having all the controls in menus within a tablet screen in the middle of the dash just shows that the maker is not experienced making cars, they are amateurs designed by silicon valley geeks who don't drive. They just want to give the illusion of being modern and different.

    Anyone with minimal experience in driving knows that the last thing you want to do while driving is having to distract your attention to operate anything, and a big touch screen with menus is just that, there is a reason why you won't find such arrangements on planes or race cars no matter how modern or futuristic, some things you just need in physical buttons with specific functions, only secondary functions you can have on a screen like the entertainment system for example. 

    The reason is simple, you are not in your sofa playing with an iPad, you are driving a vehicle on the public road. The brain cannot multitask, that is a misconception, so the less you take your eyes away from something, the better, the less you have to coordinate your hand-eye to touch something and just feel for it without looking the better, and the less you have to navigate between menus and simply push something the better. There is a reason why no one should ever be texting and driving for example. Distraction is the biggest cause of accidents.

    That will only make sense when TRUE autonomous driving is available and you don't have to pay attention to driving. Then it would be fine. But right now that doesn't exist.

    Don't you take a quick glance anyway on the button your supposed to push? I would assume most Porsche drivers look at the center console before pushing anything to make sure it is the right button (since there are lot's of them). And while adjusting cabin temperature, don't you look at the digital display to see the temperature and also confirm the desired temperature? You don't do that blind folded, do you Smiley

    Since the screen in the Tesla is so responsive and the screen real estate is larger than in any other car, they can allow for quite some spacing between buttons and also implement rather big buttons. This means that the buttons are easy to "hit" even while driving. The most essential stuff is just one click away or managed via steering wheel controls. Like cabin temperature and other things. Even if the software right now already seems to have overcome the most critical things, it will improve vastly over time via OTA just like our smartphones.

    It's not a coincidence that everyone who have used the Tesla UI for a while find other systems and implementations to be a big mess. I'm for sure one of those at least.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:
    Carlos from Spain:

    Having all the controls in menus within a tablet screen in the middle of the dash just shows that the maker is not experienced making cars, they are amateurs designed by silicon valley geeks who don't drive. They just want to give the illusion of being modern and different.

    Anyone with minimal experience in driving knows that the last thing you want to do while driving is having to distract your attention to operate anything, and a big touch screen with menus is just that, there is a reason why you won't find such arrangements on planes or race cars no matter how modern or futuristic, some things you just need in physical buttons with specific functions, only secondary functions you can have on a screen like the entertainment system for example. 

    The reason is simple, you are not in your sofa playing with an iPad, you are driving a vehicle on the public road. The brain cannot multitask, that is a misconception, so the less you take your eyes away from something, the better, the less you have to coordinate your hand-eye to touch something and just feel for it without looking the better, and the less you have to navigate between menus and simply push something the better. There is a reason why no one should ever be texting and driving for example. Distraction is the biggest cause of accidents.

    That will only make sense when TRUE autonomous driving is available and you don't have to pay attention to driving. Then it would be fine. But right now that doesn't exist.

    LOL, you skillfully managed to ignore the important point about the voice command part...

    Didn't ignore it, just didn't even think I had to mention it, voice command does not substitute buttons, is incredibly slow in comparison, unreliable and would be a pain to have to control a car's functions that way instead of buttons.

    Also semi autonomous driving is in perfect sync with the use of the screen, whenever that will really be ready...

    I already did that above, with true autonomous driving using a screen is ok, but that doesn't exist so I don't see a point here.

    On my RRS, I already spend more time using commands (music and such) on the big screen than the small buttons so all you are saying while true about distraction is already moot. LEt alone the fact that 1 out of 5 people on the road is using their phone anyway.

    There is people living outside the US too and in most modern countries using a phone while driving is illegal.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    @Carlos - Do you think anyone will manage this center console while not taking a glance before pushing a button? This will be the same reality in the 992 I assume. I would actually say it is worse than in the Tesla, because these buttons are located way down. At least with the Tesla screen you can have an eye on the road at the same time since the screen is placed much higher up.


     
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