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    Re: Performanca data 550HP RUF 997TT TIP

    Quote:
    CGT1178 said:
    the days are between us .. you must try before you judge (15,000km + manual with overboost + good driver + not againest the wind = 35 s)



    CGT1178, I am not judging, I posted a concern with your data but you were not bothered to show more detail. Then you mentioned you had an incline which was not mentioned before, the tool shows the elevation scale if you want us to see it.

    What do you exactly mean by good driver and what qualifies you as one if I might ask?

    Re: Performanca data 550HP RUF 997TT TIP

    i didnt say pro driver i said good driver ..1- he must know when he shift (if your cut off in 6600 you must shift on 6500-6550 , if you shift before that you will lose power and if you shift after that it will cut off also losing more power )
    2-very fast shifting (if you have short shifter it`s better)
    this is the good driver for strait line

    Re: Performanca data 550HP RUF 997TT TIP

    CGT I edited my post above while you were replying.

    You must realize that what you are saying is basic for someone driving a performance car, in any case the difference between a good "shifter" not driver, and a great one is not more than a 1/10th or two at best.

    Re: Performanca data 550HP RUF 997TT TIP

    i will stop here .. no more comments

    Re: Performanca data 550HP RUF 997TT TIP

    Quote:
    CGT1178 said:
    i will stop here .. no more comments



    CGT, I don't think anybody is doubting your truthfulness. We all believe that you are telling the truth, it's just that the results are so out of the ordinary that the more experienced guys justifiably doubt them. Could you perhaps make a video of the run with GPS speed and all? I know I'd be very interested in seeing it.

    Re: Performanca data 550HP RUF 997TT TIP

    Quote:
    CGT1178 said:
    i will stop here .. no more comments


    CGT1178
    You are taking the doubts as personal critism which I am certain they are not supposed to be.
    You are one of the very few people who actually has made the effort to measure some acceleration times unlike most who just pontificate about them.
    On Rennlist we started using GPS accelerometers a few years ago and found that very often there would be mistakes, most of them accidental, most commonly with a gradient being involved. On RL there was a sort of "unofficial" verification system where a few of us (who could be bothered ) shared the files and checked for errors - 90% of the time when a run looked too fast, there was a good reason which could be spotted when the file is shared

    Re: Performanca data 550HP RUF 997TT TIP

    Only a couple of short notes before I go to bed. I had a very exciting day today, driving a RUF 550 HP kit equipped 997 Turbo with Tiptronic until I ran out of gas.

    1. impressive power increase, this car definetely has at least 50-60 HP more, so the 550 HP claim isn't exaggerated.
    2. engine run smoothly, same as stock, only the oil temperature seems to be around 10 degrees Celsius higher when driving hard, water temperature is same as stock
    3. incredible torque increase, especially in the low and mid rev range
    4. kickdown "lag" slightly worse but this can be avoided by not flooring the throttle pedal completely in the lower rev range
    5. engine revs freely, there is no lag, hick-up or something else, it feels like stock, it just revs quicker towards the rev limiter
    6. fuel consumption increased by aprox. 60%(!) when driving at verz high speeds on the Autobahn. At lower speeds, the fuel consumption has increased by aprox. 10-20%
    7. Vmax still 310 kph like stock car due to Tiptronic. There seems to be some sort of "safety switch" in the Tiptronic software which prevents the engine to rev higher than the set safety limit of 6400 and 6600 (or 6600 and 6800, I don't remember the precise figures anymore). RUF is working on a solution but it may take a while. Most of the time I was driving at speeds between 270 and 315 (speedo), so this didn't bother me today.

    Conclusion: great power and torque delivery, very good adaptation to the Tiptronic with the exception of the increased kickdown lag and Vmax issue. Still highly recommendable, especially since RUF has a fantastic service and they don't bull around and they don't tell stories. Very honest people, maybe too honest for "regular" customers who don't know much about technical details and how such things usually work in this business.

    The increased fuel consumption may be an issue for those who care about fuel cost and/or how often they need to visit a fuel station. The stock Vmax is also an issue which isn't too important in my opinon but of course RUF needs to find a solution sooner or later because some people want to have it all.

    Would I buy this kit? Definetely. One reason would be the friendliness and service of the RUF team and of course the fact that they're only 50 km away from my home and if there is something wrong...

    I won't comment on performance figures until I don't get the chance to do a REAL LIFE comparison with other cars, incl. the Carrera GT. We're working on this right now but I can't promise too much since I don't have much spare time left.

    Regarding the Performancebox: it works pretty well with the external GPS antenna, with the internal one...well...I wouldn't really trust these results all the time.
    Still...although the company makes a lot of claims and ads, professional equipment used by car magazines usually looks different and is much more expensive. Like I also said before, the testing coditions incl. the equipment have to be certified, bla bla bla. You really can't even directly compare test results from one car magazine to another. In the past, the absolutely same car (license plate) achieved completely different results from one magazine to the other, so please take this with a grain of salt.

    Regarding the CGT: like I said before, I saw MANY MANY MANY test results, some with my own eyes, simply because I was there when the testing was done. NONE of these three or four different CGT did 0-300 kph in less than 30 seconds, with a tiny exception for one run out of 10 when it was 29.something. In th e CGT community, it is actually a well known fact that most CGT never achieve the performance data Porsche advertised. This is even valid for the 0-200 kph performance. Like it or not, this is a fact.

    The 997 Turbo is a nice car and yes, times around 40-43 seconds for the 0-300 kph run are normal. This is pretty fast, as far as I remember, the 996 Turbo did 0-300 kph in 60 seconds but maybe somebody could look this up to make sure I got the right number (a lot of time has passed... ).

    We tested it ourselves with two 997 Turbo Tip, from 0-230 kph or so, the 997 Turbo Tip beats the manual all the time, between 250 and around 300 things start to look different, the manual actually gains a second or two. The five speed Tiptronic is actually a huge advantage for the tuning because the last gear is longer and theoretically, the Tip equipped 997 Turbo could reach a fabulous Vmax of 330 kph and even more. Unfortunately there is that damned Tiptronic rev limiter issue and I'm not sure that a solution will be found soon.

    More to come this weekend, I need to go to bed, my eyes already hurt.

    Re: Performanca data 550HP RUF 997TT TIP

    Congrats RC .

    Who needs a GT2 now? .

    Re: Performanca data 550HP RUF 997TT TIP

    Quote:
    Ron (Houston) said:
    Congrats RC .

    Who needs a GT2 now? .



    Someone who doesn't want to stop every 230 kilometres to fill up the tiny gas tank .

    Great report, Christian!

    Re: Performanca data 550HP RUF 997TT TIP

    Quote:
    Ron (Houston) said:
    Congrats RC .

    Who needs a GT2 now? .



    Well, for starters, all the naysayers who declared that the 997TT couldn't be tuned effectively-who also are now declaring that the 997GT2 won't be either.

    BTW, if the RUF550 is burning 60% more fuel than stock (which I can believe), I will bet it is really making more like 580HP or more. The "550" moniker is just the always appreciated RUF understatement.

    Re: Performanca data 550HP RUF 997TT TIP

    Quote:
    LukasLuis said:

    So that makes (RUF550HP):

    0-200 km/h: 10.5 secs
    0-250 km/h: 16.4 secs





    Pulled these figures from last year's post of german car magazine auto, motor und sport. They compared various tuned Turbos.

    "Just for comparison:

    997 Turbo Stock
    0-200 kph in 12.3 sec.
    0-250 kph in 20.7 sec.

    997 Turbo 9ff (535 HP)
    0-200 kph in 11.2 sec.
    0-250 kph in 18.4 sec.

    997 Turbo Gemballa (550 HP)
    0-200 kph in 11.6 sec.
    0-250 kph in 19,8 sec.

    997 Turbo Speedart (530 HP)
    0-200 kph in 11.8 sec.
    0-250 kph in 20.2 sec.

    997 Turbo Techart (580 HP, modified or no VTG?)
    0-200 kph in 11.7 sec.
    0-250 kph in 19.8 sec.

    997 Turbo Wendland (530 HP)
    0-200 kph in 11.7 sec.
    0-250 kph in 19.8 sec."

    I added some more test results for you.

    AMS Supercar Test:
    Ferrari 599: 0-250kph in 16.6s
    LP640: 0-250 in 17.7s
    SLR: 0-250 in 18.5s

    Car & Driver - stock Turbo:
    6-speed = 0-160mph (256kph) in 23.8s
    TIP = 0-160mph (256kph) in 22.1s

    Can the RUF 550hp really be that fast (16.4s)?

    Re: Performanca data 550HP RUF 997TT TIP

    Quote:
    mp said:
    Quote:
    LukasLuis said:

    So that makes (RUF550HP):

    0-200 km/h: 10.5 secs
    0-250 km/h: 16.4 secs





    Pulled these figures from last year's post of german car magazine auto, motor und sport. They compared various tuned Turbos.

    "Just for comparison:

    997 Turbo Stock
    0-200 kph in 12.3 sec.
    0-250 kph in 20.7 sec.

    997 Turbo 9ff (535 HP)
    0-200 kph in 11.2 sec.
    0-250 kph in 18.4 sec.

    997 Turbo Gemballa (550 HP)
    0-200 kph in 11.6 sec.
    0-250 kph in 19,8 sec.

    997 Turbo Speedart (530 HP)
    0-200 kph in 11.8 sec.
    0-250 kph in 20.2 sec.

    997 Turbo Techart (580 HP, modified or no VTG?)
    0-200 kph in 11.7 sec.
    0-250 kph in 19.8 sec.

    997 Turbo Wendland (530 HP)
    0-200 kph in 11.7 sec.
    0-250 kph in 19.8 sec."

    I added some more test results for you.

    AMS Supercar Test:
    Ferrari 599: 0-250kph in 16.6s
    LP640: 0-250 in 17.7s
    SLR: 0-250 in 18.5s

    Car & Driver - stock Turbo:
    6-speed = 0-160mph (256kph) in 23.8s
    TIP = 0-160mph (256kph) in 22.1s

    Can the RUF 550hp really be that fast (16.4s)?



    mp,

    I think those performance figures for the RUF are quite accurate because my FVD Stage 2+ car had similar times , which i posted here;

    http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=352464&an=0&page=14#352464


    Re: Performanca data 550HP RUF 997TT TIP

    Quote:
    mp said:
    Quote:
    LukasLuis said:

    So that makes (RUF550HP):

    0-200 km/h: 10.5 secs
    0-250 km/h: 16.4 secs





    Pulled these figures from last year's post of german car magazine auto, motor und sport. They compared various tuned Turbos.

    "Just for comparison:

    997 Turbo Stock
    0-200 kph in 12.3 sec.
    0-250 kph in 20.7 sec.

    997 Turbo 9ff (535 HP)
    0-200 kph in 11.2 sec.
    0-250 kph in 18.4 sec.

    997 Turbo Gemballa (550 HP)
    0-200 kph in 11.6 sec.
    0-250 kph in 19,8 sec.

    997 Turbo Speedart (530 HP)
    0-200 kph in 11.8 sec.
    0-250 kph in 20.2 sec.

    997 Turbo Techart (580 HP, modified or no VTG?)
    0-200 kph in 11.7 sec.
    0-250 kph in 19.8 sec.

    997 Turbo Wendland (530 HP)
    0-200 kph in 11.7 sec.
    0-250 kph in 19.8 sec."

    I added some more test results for you.

    AMS Supercar Test:
    Ferrari 599: 0-250kph in 16.6s
    LP640: 0-250 in 17.7s
    SLR: 0-250 in 18.5s

    Car & Driver - stock Turbo:
    6-speed = 0-160mph (256kph) in 23.8s
    TIP = 0-160mph (256kph) in 22.1s

    Can the RUF 550hp really be that fast (16.4s)?



    For comparison:

    Ruf Rt12 0-250: 15.4s

    Given that the Rt12 test car had (probably) close to 700hp the 16.4s for the 550hp kit seem a bit on the optimistic side. However, something arond 17s would sound plausible.

    Re: Performanca data 550HP RUF 997TT TIP

    Quote:
    WhiteKnight said:
    Pulled these figures from last year's post of german car magazine auto, motor und sport. They compared various tuned Turbos.

    "Just for comparison:

    997 Turbo Stock
    0-200 kph in 12.3 sec.
    0-250 kph in 20.7 sec.

    997 Turbo 9ff (535 HP)
    0-200 kph in 11.2 sec.
    0-250 kph in 18.4 sec.

    997 Turbo Gemballa (550 HP)
    0-200 kph in 11.6 sec.
    0-250 kph in 19,8 sec.

    997 Turbo Speedart (530 HP)
    0-200 kph in 11.8 sec.
    0-250 kph in 20.2 sec.

    997 Turbo Techart (580 HP, modified or no VTG?)
    0-200 kph in 11.7 sec.
    0-250 kph in 19.8 sec.

    997 Turbo Wendland (530 HP)
    0-200 kph in 11.7 sec.
    0-250 kph in 19.8 sec."

    I added some more test results for you.

    AMS Supercar Test:
    Ferrari 599: 0-250kph in 16.6s
    LP640: 0-250 in 17.7s
    SLR: 0-250 in 18.5s

    Car & Driver - stock Turbo:
    6-speed = 0-160mph (256kph) in 23.8s
    TIP = 0-160mph (256kph) in 22.1s

    Can the RUF 550hp really be that fast (16.4s)?






    Looking forward for a magazine test

    WhiteKnight, you are not posting Tiptronic 997TTs I believe.

    The only magazine (Autobild) having tested a Tuner Tip that I know of, is the Heidl 540Hp and 705NM with an ECU and exhaust upgrade.

    0-200kph in 10.8s. No data for the 0-250kph.

    The RUF 550 numbers posted by Lukas are still in the air, no data or verification has been done.I am quite sure that they are correct.


    Re: Performanca data 550HP RUF 997TT TIP





    Looking forward for a magazine test

    WhiteKnight, you are not posting Tiptronic 997TTs I believe.

    The only magazine (Autobild) having tested a Tuner Tip that I know of, is the Heidl 540Hp and 705NM with an ECU and exhaust upgrade.

    0-200kph in 10.8s. No data for the 0-250kph.

    The RUF 550 numbers posted by Lukas are still in the air, no data or verification has been done.I am quite sure that they are correct.





    Sorry i forgot to write it, my car has TIP tranny.

    Re: Performanca data 550HP RUF 997TT TIP

    Quote:
    Turbo Al said:
    Well, for starters, all the naysayers who declared that the 997TT couldn't be tuned effectively-who also are now declaring that the 997GT2 won't be either.



    Well, apparently there are still some issues with 997 Turbo tuning, like the Tiptronic Vmax for example.
    We are around 14 months after the official 997 Turbo introduction and it seems that only slowly "effective" AND "reliable" tuning kits are available for the 997 Turbo. Early adopters may have been lucky but I already know several cases of destroyed engines (turbo chargers, pistons, etc.), blown exhaust systems and even one case of a car taking fire (apparently the tuner forgot to mount the heat shielding properly). I won't even mention a destroyed Tiptronic, several clutches, two manual gearboxes and a "broken" AWD (don't have details, this is what the owner told me).

    Re: Performanca data 550HP RUF 997TT TIP

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    Turbo Al said:
    Well, for starters, all the naysayers who declared that the 997TT couldn't be tuned effectively-who also are now declaring that the 997GT2 won't be either.



    Well, apparently there are still some issues with 997 Turbo tuning, like the Tiptronic Vmax for example.
    We are around 14 months after the official 997 Turbo introduction and it seems that only slowly "effective" AND "reliable" tuning kits are available for the 997 Turbo. Early adopters may have been lucky but I already know several cases of destroyed engines (turbo chargers, pistons, etc.), blown exhaust systems and even one case of a car taking fire (apparently the tuner forgot to mount the heat shielding properly). I won't even mention a destroyed Tiptronic, several clutches, two manual gearboxes and a "broken" AWD (don't have details, this is what the owner told me).

    What happened? "More to come this weekend, I need to go to bed, my eyes already hurt."

    Re: Performanca data 550HP RUF 997TT TIP

    Quote:
    jeffbco said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    Turbo Al said:
    Well, for starters, all the naysayers who declared that the 997TT couldn't be tuned effectively-who also are now declaring that the 997GT2 won't be either.



    Well, apparently there are still some issues with 997 Turbo tuning, like the Tiptronic Vmax for example.
    We are around 14 months after the official 997 Turbo introduction and it seems that only slowly "effective" AND "reliable" tuning kits are available for the 997 Turbo. Early adopters may have been lucky but I already know several cases of destroyed engines (turbo chargers, pistons, etc.), blown exhaust systems and even one case of a car taking fire (apparently the tuner forgot to mount the heat shielding properly). I won't even mention a destroyed Tiptronic, several clutches, two manual gearboxes and a "broken" AWD (don't have details, this is what the owner told me).

    What happened? "More to come this weekend, I need to go to bed, my eyes already hurt."



    Considering that the time was 1:30 AM where he was and that he spends much of his day working in front of a computer screen, I'd say it's pretty self-explanatory .

    Re: Performanca data 550HP RUF 997TT TIP

    lukasluis,

    Is it true you achieved 30.7s from 0-300?

    Re: Performanca data 550HP RUF 997TT TIP

    RC,

    Nice report. That "lag" is the stepdown issue I was referencing in the other thread - which is alleviated by not pushing the throttle down to the floor. I guess even the vaunted RUF experts couldn't eliminate this issue. Hopefully someone will finally fix this problem with modded tips.

    Re: Performanca data 550HP RUF 997TT TIP

    Quote:
    mp said:
    lukasluis,

    Is it true you achieved 30.7s from 0-300?



    Yes, he did. Using the Performancebox. I'm not sure about this result but I think it COULD be possible if his car was already running well before the tuning.
    0-300 kph in 32-34 seconds should be more likely but also don't forget that the Tiptronic profits from the one gear less, especially in that speed range where power/torque are everything.

    Re: Performanca data 550HP RUF 997TT TIP

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    mp said:
    lukasluis,

    Is it true you achieved 30.7s from 0-300?



    Yes, he did. Using the Performancebox. I'm not sure about this result but I think it COULD be possible if his car was already running well before the tuning.
    0-300 kph in 32-34 seconds should be more likely but also don't forget that the Tiptronic profits from the one gear less, especially in that speed range where power/torque are everything.



    30.7s is impossible. The Rt12 has about 700hp and does 0-300 in 25s. The stock 997TT with 480hp does 0-300 in about 41s. A car with 550-580hp cannot be faster than 35s Simple arithmetics

    Re: Performanca data 550HP RUF 997TT TIP

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    mp said:
    lukasluis,

    Is it true you achieved 30.7s from 0-300?



    Yes, he did. Using the Performancebox. I'm not sure about this result but I think it COULD be possible if his car was already running well before the tuning.
    0-300 kph in 32-34 seconds should be more likely but also don't forget that the Tiptronic profits from the one gear less, especially in that speed range where power/torque are everything.



    30.7s is impossible. The Rt12 has about 700hp and does 0-300 in 25s. The stock 997TT with 480hp does 0-300 in about 41s. A car with 550-580hp cannot be faster than 35s Simple arithmetics



    exactly, and that's why it doesn't have 550hp! it has more like 580-600hp. There is no reason to assume that this car's hp is not underrated the same way the RT12 was underrated

    Re: Performanca data 550HP RUF 997TT TIP

    RC would you be willing to postulate that the RUF TT is putting out more than 550hp, perhaps closer to 600 hp?

    Re: Performanca data 550HP RUF 997TT TIP

    Quote:
    eclou said:
    RC would you be willing to postulate that the RUF TT is putting out more than 550hp, perhaps closer to 600 hp?



    I can't and won't speculate about such things, the only thing I know is that the RUF 550 HP kit feels definetely MUCH faster than stock and considering how many times I passed 300 kph on the speedo on an Autobahn I know well, I think that it isn't excluded that the 550 HP kit delivers the performance Lukas posted.

    Sorry but I only make REAL performance claims I verified myself and I can't do that without being at the spot and watching how an engine dyno testing is done OR at least to compare the car myself to the Carrera GT and a stock 997 Turbo. I was impressed with the performance but I can't make claims on how much power this car delivered. Sorry.

    I'll do a Performancebox testing with external GPS antenna myself around mid of September (I'm very busy right now, not to mention short vacation to Sardinia) to verify Lukas' claims (he is NOT working for RUF, I know him) and to see if ANY tuned 550 HP kit Turbo has a similar performance. We may even be able to include a Carrera GT in this.

    I would also like to mention that the Service at RUF was excellent and while I was testdriving the car, MY car had a suspension adjustment because I had planned that for a long time, especially after I put the Cup tires on my car and the result is astonishing, the car's behaviour has improved a lot, apparently Mr. Liebig from RUF found the "holy grail" regarding 997 Turbo suspension setup, absolutely fabulous. The understeer of the Cup tires disappeared, oversteer is slightly stronger but much easier to control, steering-in is more precise and spontaneous and even at speeds over 300 kph on the Autobahn with PASM sport mode, the car has lost the previous "nervousness", it runs like on rails. Don't ask about values and setup specs, RUF won't unveil it, for customers only apparently and it is understandable. I wonder if the tested 997 Turbo in Sport Auto would have achieved a better time with this setup but of course it is very likely that Porsche did everthing they could to deliver a car which has the perfect setup for the Ring.

    Yes, I paid for this suspension adjustment, so no special treatment or gift for writing a favorable report. Just in case somebody thinks something else.

    Re: Performanca data 550HP RUF 997TT TIP

    The RUF specs are essentially the Gt3 "street" specs:

    Front:
    -1.2 camber
    +0.04 toe (per side)

    Rear:
    -1.6 camber
    +0.16 toe (per side)

    RC, would you consider the RUF tweaked turbo to have fulfilled your expectations of what the TT should have been? In other words, to have corrected your previous observed quirks of the TT? I would say for myself that it has.

    Re: Performanca data 550HP RUF 997TT TIP

    eclou is correct, I got them viva voce from Mr Lieb while in Norway recently.

    Front .00 to +.05 and rear +.15,

    I did this on my car and it was amazing, even on a slow speed on ramp in the rain. The twitchy over steer is gone and the car is like on rails.

    I agree with eclou, RC you owe it to the readers to update your report on the 997TT handling.

    Re: Performanca data 550HP RUF 997TT TIP

    RT12 "underrated" and now R550 "underrated", also the factory 996 GT2 "underrated", GT3 "underrated", RS Tuning 542PS "underrated" etc..

    Shouldn't people think that other tuners' dynos are "overrated" instead? I just posted the data from the Heidl 540 which is not too far from the R550.

    Will we be seeing the data of the 550 run to support the claim? So far the data from CGT1178 is more valid than no data.

    Re: Performanca data 550HP RUF 997TT TIP

    Quote:
    RC said:
    .... I wonder if the tested 997 Turbo in Sport Auto would have achieved a better time with this setup but of course it is very likely that Porsche did everthing they could to deliver a car which has the perfect setup for the Ring.




    The numbers quoted by LAT and Eclou constitute what is a good street "safe" setup and good compromise between straight line performance and handling .

    In my opinion, for the 'Ring tests, I would think that the settings were more aggressive, the front toe and camber are very mild here, which is why the GT3 understeers when driven per factory specs, it is a safety net for the majority of users.

    For dual purpose street and track cars, Olaf Manthey likes camber to be 2 minutes more (negative) in the front than rear and more toe out for better turn in. Not good for fuel consumption or everyday drivers however as it reduces the understeer "safe" effect.


    Re: Performanca data 550HP RUF 997TT TIP

    Quote:
    AAHTT said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    mp said:
    lukasluis,

    Is it true you achieved 30.7s from 0-300?



    Yes, he did. Using the Performancebox. I'm not sure about this result but I think it COULD be possible if his car was already running well before the tuning.
    0-300 kph in 32-34 seconds should be more likely but also don't forget that the Tiptronic profits from the one gear less, especially in that speed range where power/torque are everything.



    30.7s is impossible. The Rt12 has about 700hp and does 0-300 in 25s. The stock 997TT with 480hp does 0-300 in about 41s. A car with 550-580hp cannot be faster than 35s Simple arithmetics



    exactly, and that's why it doesn't have 550hp! it has more like 580-600hp. There is no reason to assume that this car's hp is not underrated the same way the RT12 was underrated



    I agree, that's why I wrote "550-580" and not 550...

     
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