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    Re: The 997 Turbo - Controversial Opinions?

    Quote:

    Thank you RC! And a few others working in his shadow...



    thanking himself... that's what i call narcism


    Re: The 997 Turbo - Controversial Opinions?

    Quote:
    zzboba said:
    Quote:

    Thank you RC! And a few others working in his shadow...



    thanking himself... that's what i call narcism





    No no, I'm just a mere hobbit sharing my thoughts with others. I was referring to the underdogs, the ones that hang around pretending to be normal members!

    In terms of news, I can help with Ferrari and Mercedes thanks for my personal relations (less and less now that they know I'm forum active) but still...

    Porsche, I'll leave that to the locals

    Re: The 997 Turbo - Controversial Opinions?

    Quote:
    zzboba said:
    Quote:

    RC actually met with a Porsche official recently and the latter told him their guestimate is less than 3% of clients are aware of forums and that basically the firm doesn't really pay attention to what goes on on the web.



    rennteam.com ist stated in wikipedia's entry on porsche as "the place for finding out the latest porsche news":
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche (see end of page)


    Err.. don't put much value on it, I put that link on wikipedia (the wording might have been changed slightly in the meantime, though).

    Re: The 997 Turbo - Controversial Opinions?

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:
    Quote:
    Fanch said:


    My guestimate is less than 5% of Porsche clients check car forums.





    You could be right and Porsche may have nothing to be concerned about. However, they have assigned more than two dozen employees to surveil/peruse these boards, so, it makes me wonders what they're actually up to.



    Interesting. Do you actually know that for a fact?
    Would you share where you got the info from?





    Check with RC. I read about it in one of his posts.

    Re: The 997 Turbo - Controversial Opinions?

    Quote:
    brunner said:
    Err.. don't put much value on it, I put that link on wikipedia (the wording might have been changed slightly in the meantime, though).



    So I suppose I need to thank you...

    Re: The 997 Turbo - Controversial Opinions?

    I have spent a long time thinking about the reasons why Porsche have released the 997TT with the tip being faster than the manual and still don't understand the reasons.

    The Porsche Turbo is an icon - the car every Porsche enthusiast aspires to and as such it has always been faster in manual form than tiptronic. So why is it now changed?

    Because it is the Porsche flagship product the only way this can have happened is with main board approval and probably under the direct request of the main board. No major manufacturer would alter their top line product without this approval.

    So what's the point ? They must know that all the manual buyers will be annoyed (which seems to be the majority) and the tip buyers surprised because usually the tip is slower. And as if that wasn't enough it seems unlikely the PDK box will be much faster than the tip and so that will annoy all the PDK buyers.

    From where I stand it feels like Porsche has failed to understand the market and corrupted the very car that is key to keeping it at the top of the car manufacturers.

    Lets be realistic if it wasn't for the likes of the Porsche Turbo - the Cayenne wouldn't sell in the quantities it has and nor would the Boxster. Its easy to say the company has been turned around in recent years but the main reason is the massive bull market that has occurred in the US and to some extent the UK and Europe which have just meant more people have more money to spend.

    If Porsche devalue their product - then watch out because the party will end !

    Re: The 997 Turbo - Controversial Opinions?

    The whole story about manual vs. tip was something, which I expected for some time...

    I don't know why most of you are so surprised ? Automatic transmisions are the only future, even more in this segment. I know that most of you prefer manual, it is the way in which we have used to live and now it is dificult to change it. But we have to! Because all of us want performance on first place! And the times when performance was conected with manual are almost over...This is the true for me...

    Look at F-cars in the recent years; BMW, Lambo....all of them started to improve this technology. Porsche was the last man standing till know. And I think that they celebrated the end of manuals with the gorgeus CGT! I thank them for that - it is really a milestone

    But know we are talking about 997 Turbo. It is normal for the company to take part in this battle. And they did it great. Great because they give us phenomenal performance with an old concept. Imagine what will happen when the PDK is here...
    My 2 cents...

    Re: The 997 Turbo - Controversial Opinions?

    Quote:
    Boyko23 said:
    The whole story about manual vs. tip was something, which I expected for some time...

    I don't know why most of you are so surprised ? Automatic transmisions are the only future, even more in this segment. I know that most of you prefer manual, it is the way in which we have used to live and now it is dificult to change it. But we have to! Because all of us want performance on first place! And the times when performance was conected with manual are almost over...This is the true for me...

    Look at F-cars in the recent years; BMW, Lambo....all of them started to improve this technology. Porsche was the last man standing till know. And I think that they celebrated the end of manuals with the gorgeus CGT! I thank them for that - it is really a milestone

    But know we are talking about 997 Turbo. It is normal for the company to take part in this battle. And they did it great. Great because they give us phenomenal performance with an old concept. Imagine what will happen when the PDK is here...
    My 2 cents...



    Well Automatic transmisions may be the way future, but is strange how Porsche made the 5 speed triptronic change in one generation from loosing 0.6 sec to winning 0.6 sec in the 0-200kph mark?

    I agree with others saying that they did not pay enough attention to the manual development to favour triptronic sales.

    But do we want Porsche to take this way future? What will be the next steps, automated brakes? automated throttle? Steering?.

    If performance is all we care we should buy the 997TT with the "Kimi" option. You sit on the side, let him drive and you will be faster round the track than anybody else (except the "Alonso" option maybe )

    The point is driving and manually controlling everything is fun, so sometimes in "drivers cars" the way future is not the best one!!


    PS: About F-cars, well they do sell a lot of F1s but then again average F-driver as well as P-driver (NOT FORUM MEMBERS WITH ARE LESS THAN 3% ACCORDING TO PREVIOUS POST) Just want to show their cars and accelerate in straight line from time to time. They are shifting products to sell more wich is fine, but they should not forget why they have such a good name in the first place.
    F430 manual looks as somebody glued the stick on the middle after production, I am almost sure the change is far from nice becuse they don't really care

    Re: The 997 Turbo - Controversial Opinions?

    Quote:
    Boyko23 said:
    The whole story about manual vs. tip was something, which I expected for some time...

    I don't know why most of you are so surprised ? Automatic transmisions are the only future, even more in this segment. I know that most of you prefer manual, it is the way in which we have used to live and now it is dificult to change it. But we have to! Because all of us want performance on first place! And the times when performance was conected with manual are almost over...This is the true for me...

    Look at F-cars in the recent years; BMW, Lambo....all of them started to improve this technology. Porsche was the last man standing till know. And I think that they celebrated the end of manuals with the gorgeus CGT! I thank them for that - it is really a milestone

    But know we are talking about 997 Turbo. It is normal for the company to take part in this battle. And they did it great. Great because they give us phenomenal performance with an old concept. Imagine what will happen when the PDK is here...
    My 2 cents...



    I disagree...I always thought that auto trannies would fade away in sports cars with the proliferation of SMG/F1/DSG...

    For Gods sakes we are talking about a car with a torque converter and 30 kilos being faster than the manual tranny!! The way of the future? The very concept of its design principle is FLAWED for a SPORTS CAR. ...

    Sigh

    Re: The 997 Turbo - Controversial Opinions?

    Quote:
    RonnieC6Z said:But please get your facts straight...And the 997 will match its performance? The Z is about 400 pounds lighter, has been dynoing at almost 550hp at the crank with almost 500 pound feet of torque, and has a 50-50 weight distribution. Verified numbers: 0-60 in 3.4, 0-100 in 7.4 and 7.429 around the ring on a stock Z with stock runflats.



    A few points...

    1) Acceleration performance is not all about weight and peak power numbers - you're leaving out gearing and power under the curve.

    2) Unless you have more recent information, GM stated in the September 2005 issue of Motor Trend that "Engineers switched suspension settings and changed tires many times before finding the optimum setup." Nowhere do they say the runs were done on the OEM run flats.

    3) A 50/50 weight distribution is FAR from optimum in terms of handling and acceleration dynamics.

    Re: The 997 Turbo - Controversial Opinions?

    Quote:
    Hurst said:For Gods sakes we are talking about a car with a torque converter and 30 kilos being faster than the manual tranny!! The way of the future? The very concept of its design principle is FLAWED for a SPORTS CAR. ...

    Sigh



    You guys sound really old-fashioned.

    Faster is as faster does

    Re: The 997 Turbo - Controversial Opinions?

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    Quote:
    Hurst said:For Gods sakes we are talking about a car with a torque converter and 30 kilos being faster than the manual tranny!! The way of the future? The very concept of its design principle is FLAWED for a SPORTS CAR. ...

    Sigh



    You guys sound really old-fashioned.

    Faster is as faster does



    Old fashioned at heart!!

    Re: The 997 Turbo - Controversial Opinions?

    RC:
    Of it's any consolation I know from a very reliable source that the 997 TT will be more than adequate and probably exceed your expectations when it comes to handling and driving pleasure.
    If you haven't already driven it - without saying more than I can and will - I do not think u will be disappointed

    And if you are wondering about the 997TT S...it's on the way sooner than you think. No kidding.
    ("I could tell you, but I would have to kill you"...etc )

    Re: The 997 Turbo - Controversial Opinions?

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    RC:
    Of it's any consolation I know from a very reliable source that the 997 TT will be more than adequate and probably exceed your expectations when it comes to handling and driving pleasure.
    If you haven't already driven it - without saying more than I can and will - I do not think u will be disappointed

    And if you are wondering about the 997TT S...it's on the way sooner than you think. No kidding.
    ("I could tell you, but I would have to kill you"...etc )



    Speaking of the "S" and powerkits, I wonder where the power gains will come from this time around: Different turbo geometries? Same turbo setup as on the base with max. boost turned up? Not likely from extra displacement, they'll likely stick with the GT-1 based 3.6L as on the 996TT and base 997TT. Change in the overboost program with higher output? Then of course there's that PDK thing lurking in the background....

    Re: The 997 Turbo - Controversial Opinions?

    Quote:
    Turbo Al said:
    Speaking of the "S" and powerkits, I wonder where the power gains will come from this time around: Different turbo geometries? Same turbo setup as on the base with max. boost turned up? Not likely from extra displacement, they'll likely stick with the GT-1 based 3.6L as on the 996TT and base 997TT. Change in the overboost program with higher output? Then of course there's that PDK thing lurking in the background....



    Maybe bigger turbos, or maybe a little higher boost on the turbos they have now. Plus maybe a better air box and exhaust...or all of these things.

    Re: The 997 Turbo - Controversial Opinions?

    I dont imagine they designed all new turbos that are flowing their max amount of air as is....

    Re: The 997 Turbo - Controversial Opinions?

    Quote:
    bostonmini said:
    I dont imagine they designed all new turbos that are flowing their max amount of air as is....


    No, but you don't want to use turbos that can flow much more air than you use either, as that makes them slower to respond to throttle inputs. It's a pretty careful balancing act (made a bit easier with VTG).

    Re: The 997 Turbo - Controversial Opinions?

    Quote:
    Rufie said:

    I don't like to say it, but if continues I will get the impression that some guys here are spoiled and have luxury-problems.

    Rufie



    Quote:
    RC said:
    Today, Porsche drivers are viewed different by people, I can tell it by their looks, by their comments at the fuel station or at my dealer or even when I'm washing my car. People don't consider us Porsche drivers to be freaks like many years ago, they consider us to be rich and spoiled people who are just showing off their toy. Nothing more and nothing less.
    Do you think it is written on my forehead that I'm one of the people behind Rennteam? Do you think people can read from your nose that you're the hell of a track driver and you love driving your Porsche? Or do you think people believe you when you tell them that you're enjoying a lonesome ride into the sun along the street, just for fun?
    Nahhh, we're just a bunch of rich and spoiled wannabees and whenever these people see a crashed Porsche, it actually confirms their prejudice. So what do I care about these people? To be honest? I don't care at all.



    I think you care, all of us on reading this board care, because we know their assumtptions are wrong. We know anyone reading this board is a 'nut' to some degree. Perhaps we are a slightly evolved 'nut' from the hard-core owners of the past, and yes, until they get to know us, they incorrectly assume. But we love these cars not because of the 'bling' factor, but because they put smiles on our faces and some fear, respect and love in our hearts. All of the P owners I know, regardless of car age / taste are nuts. When they see us performing nutty duties, hopefully they can add, and then learn that we are not mere brats.

    Signs of a nut:
    we wash the car ourselves, in our way, using our own techniques
    we ease it over bumps / uneven surfaces
    we find that car park where a door ding is least likely
    we always double check tire pressure
    never spill a drop of petrol at the station
    am happy to spend a whole day detailing the car (i spend hours after summer removing small tar marks)
    always wake-up our engines gently
    learn more about how to drive (regardless of current level)
    need perfection from our dealer's service department

    And a lot of this is done by 'new money'. Perhaps you just got unlucky at the gas station.

    On the flip side, envy does strange things to people. Let's keep our doors open though!

    p.s. yes, marketing is annoying. If 490 was the best possible, then that's acceptable. But if not, then UNACCEPTABLE!

    Re: The 997 Turbo - Controversial Opinions?

    The fact that the 997TT with a automatic is quicker than a manual wont help public opinion either. No matter how wonderful, it will just push perceptions of Porsche drivers more into the SL class of sterotyped owners.

    And the more expensive Porsches become, the more the company needs to attract SL and Jag customers with luxury options,low transmission noise (the real purpose of the dual mass flywheel, more soundproofing that adds more weight etc..

    I see more posts here bemoaning the lack of Sat radio and Ipod connectivity than I see complaints about the lack of dry sump systems (997/987's) or stiffer motor mounts.

    If it were not for the for the GT3, the only real Porsche sports car would be the CGT. And even the GT3 needs its pedals changed back to the floor hinged type and its gas filler flap moved back to the drivers side (no offense UK owners), and if you have to ask why all of this matters, then you ahould go Google until you find out why.

    Re: The 997 Turbo - Controversial Opinions?

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    The fact that the 997TT with a automatic is quicker than a manual wont help public opinion either. No matter how wonderful, it will just push perceptions of Porsche drivers more into the SL class of sterotyped owners.

    And the more expensive Porsches become, the more the company needs to attract SL and Jag customers with luxury options,low transmission noise (the real purpose of the dual mass flywheel, more soundproofing that adds more weight etc..

    I see more posts here bemoaning the lack of Sat radio and Ipod connectivity than I see complaints about the lack of dry sump systems (997/987's) or stiffer motor mounts.

    If it were not for the for the GT3, the only real Porsche sports car would be the CGT. And even the GT3 needs its pedals changed back to the floor hinged type and its gas filler flap moved back to the drivers side (no offense UK owners), and if you have to ask why all of this matters, then you ahould go Google until you find out why.



    Great points, and I agree 100%.

    Re: The 997 Turbo - Controversial Opinions?

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    The fact that the 997TT with a automatic is quicker than a manual wont help public opinion either. No matter how wonderful, it will just push perceptions of Porsche drivers more into the SL class of sterotyped owners.



    Very true Jim.

    Re: The 997 Turbo - Controversial Opinions?

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    The fact that the 997TT with a automatic is quicker than a manual wont help public opinion either. No matter how wonderful, it will just push perceptions of Porsche drivers more into the SL class of sterotyped owners.

    And the more expensive Porsches become, the more the company needs to attract SL and Jag customers with luxury options,low transmission noise (the real purpose of the dual mass flywheel, more soundproofing that adds more weight etc..

    I see more posts here bemoaning the lack of Sat radio and Ipod connectivity than I see complaints about the lack of dry sump systems (997/987's) or stiffer motor mounts.

    If it were not for the for the GT3, the only real Porsche sports car would be the CGT. And even the GT3 needs its pedals changed back to the floor hinged type and its gas filler flap moved back to the drivers side (no offense UK owners), and if you have to ask why all of this matters, then you ahould go Google until you find out why.



    I totally agree with you!
    Porsche 997tt is not for the same target group anymore as previous years...
    This is more a daily or family car (very fast though) than a pure sport car.. it is like a cayenne Turbo for street version.

    I believe our last hope from Porsche, will be the new GT3 RS. If not then we will have to go to other brands like lambo etc

    Re: The 997 Turbo - Controversial Opinions?

    Quote:
    Aisxos said:
    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    The fact that the 997TT with a automatic is quicker than a manual wont help public opinion either. No matter how wonderful, it will just push perceptions of Porsche drivers more into the SL class of sterotyped owners.

    And the more expensive Porsches become, the more the company needs to attract SL and Jag customers with luxury options,low transmission noise (the real purpose of the dual mass flywheel, more soundproofing that adds more weight etc..

    I see more posts here bemoaning the lack of Sat radio and Ipod connectivity than I see complaints about the lack of dry sump systems (997/987's) or stiffer motor mounts.

    If it were not for the for the GT3, the only real Porsche sports car would be the CGT. And even the GT3 needs its pedals changed back to the floor hinged type and its gas filler flap moved back to the drivers side (no offense UK owners), and if you have to ask why all of this matters, then you ahould go Google until you find out why.



    I totally agree with you!
    Porsche 997tt is not for the same target group anymore as previous years...
    This is more a daily or family car (very fast though) than a pure sport car.. it is like a cayenne Turbo for street version.

    I believe our last hope from Porsche, will be the new GT3 RS. If not then we will have to go to other brands like lambo etc



    Wait for the Turbo S. If it's really coming sooner than we thought, then there might be some surprises in store for us.

    Re: The 997 Turbo - Controversial Opinions?

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Aisxos said:
    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    The fact that the 997TT with a automatic is quicker than a manual wont help public opinion either. No matter how wonderful, it will just push perceptions of Porsche drivers more into the SL class of sterotyped owners.

    And the more expensive Porsches become, the more the company needs to attract SL and Jag customers with luxury options,low transmission noise (the real purpose of the dual mass flywheel, more soundproofing that adds more weight etc..

    I see more posts here bemoaning the lack of Sat radio and Ipod connectivity than I see complaints about the lack of dry sump systems (997/987's) or stiffer motor mounts.

    If it were not for the for the GT3, the only real Porsche sports car would be the CGT. And even the GT3 needs its pedals changed back to the floor hinged type and its gas filler flap moved back to the drivers side (no offense UK owners), and if you have to ask why all of this matters, then you ahould go Google until you find out why.



    I totally agree with you!
    Porsche 997tt is not for the same target group anymore as previous years...
    This is more a daily or family car (very fast though) than a pure sport car.. it is like a cayenne Turbo for street version.

    I believe our last hope from Porsche, will be the new GT3 RS. If not then we will have to go to other brands like lambo etc



    Wait for the Turbo S. If it's really coming sooner than we thought, then there might be some surprises in store for us.



    If not, Porsche will be grilled by competition rather soon.

    If their cars do no longer offer superior performance (and I am talking of a substantial margins here, not of insignificant performance gaps like in case of the 997TT) they will be dead rather soon.

    Companies like Audi (incl. Lambo and the new R8), BMW, DC (including the new McLaren project) or Ferrari will quickly gain market shares. Just look at the mess regarding PDK. Porsche is simply too small a company to offer state-of-the-art technology. No DSG, no PDK, only old 5 gear auto tranny technology. Customers are no longer prepared to pay permium prices for old technology. Competition has become fierce.

    Re: The 997 Turbo - Controversial Opinions?

    re few posts above this one: (not just Carlos)

    Is the issue that Porsche has failed to produce a number over 500, or that they've seemingly have failed with their PDK technology (in the short term), or have created a vehicle that is drivable on a daily basis? Surely if it's the latter then it was just as much a 996 issue as it ever could be a 997 issue. If it's about technology, then it's a general P issue, not a 997tt issue.

    I was reading about the Turbo S (here); CF put it: "since there isn't much room for improvement in the 0-60(62) mph performance territory, a Turbo S will show it's power advantage at higher speed ranges only, above 100 mph and more likely above 125 mph." as I was reading I was thinking how relevant is that for the vast majority of owners. I drive I tip now. I had a manual. (and a tip prior to that). I prefer the tip. It does everything I want of it. Please don't flame me! Yes, I DE'd it a dozen times on the track, I was surprised how it behaved in D mode. A 0.1 0-100 means nothing to me.

    Weight; yes, an issue, but I can not complain as I've got bose / pcm / electric sport seats in my car! Anyway, I look at it like this, my body could be 20kg heavier, currently it's not, so I have a 'pick-up' there. I like having the PCM too!

    I know for the pure guys, you are probably as to why a tip is faster than a manual, and you feel a 'marketing' game about to be played. But you probably don't like PSM either - and for me and most of the p car people, it's a great butt saving device and an educational tool.

    From what I've read I don't see any significant Porsche reclassification of the 997tt. Aixos, I know you've said that "Porsche 997tt is not for the same target group anymore as previous years..." I would ask you to elaborate if you wouldn't mind (or someone).

    Guys, please don't flame me, and I hope in no way you find this too flaming, but the reason why p-cars attract people like me is that we feel some degree of comfort (in the sense the cars not a gt3-like beast).

    Many of us are about to put reasonable money on the line and before we do, would love to be better informed.

    Thanks!

    Re: The 997 Turbo - Controversial Opinions?

    Quote:
    Jay said:
    re few posts above this one: (not just Carlos)

    Is the issue that Porsche has failed to produce a number over 500, or that they've seemingly have failed with their PDK technology (in the short term), or have created a vehicle that is drivable on a daily basis? Surely if it's the latter then it was just as much a 996 issue as it ever could be a 997 issue. If it's about technology, then it's a general P issue, not a 997tt issue.

    I was reading about the Turbo S (here); CF put it: "since there isn't much room for improvement in the 0-60(62) mph performance territory, a Turbo S will show it's power advantage at higher speed ranges only, above 100 mph and more likely above 125 mph." as I was reading I was thinking how relevant is that for the vast majority of owners. I drive I tip now. I had a manual. (and a tip prior to that). I prefer the tip. It does everything I want of it. Please don't flame me! Yes, I DE'd it a dozen times on the track, I was surprised how it behaved in D mode. A 0.1 0-100 means nothing to me.

    Weight; yes, an issue, but I can not complain as I've got bose / pcm / electric sport seats in my car! Anyway, I look at it like this, my body could be 20kg heavier, currently it's not, so I have a 'pick-up' there. I like having the PCM too!

    I know for the pure guys, you are probably as to why a tip is faster than a manual, and you feel a 'marketing' game about to be played. But you probably don't like PSM either - and for me and most of the p car people, it's a great butt saving device and an educational tool.

    From what I've read I don't see any significant Porsche reclassification of the 997tt. Aixos, I know you've said that "Porsche 997tt is not for the same target group anymore as previous years..." I would ask you to elaborate if you wouldn't mind (or someone).

    Guys, please don't flame me, and I hope in no way you find this too flaming, but the reason why p-cars attract people like me is that we feel some degree of comfort (in the sense the cars not a gt3-like beast).

    Many of us are about to put reasonable money on the line and before we do, would love to be better informed.

    Thanks!



    The new PSM is actually very good (it only comes on when you activate the ABS, if you so desire). The thing Aisxos was referring to was the target audience of the 997TT has obviously changed. For the 993TT it was the hardcore sports car enthusiast. The car was raw and loud and it was pretty much the fastest thing on the road, save for a few supercars. The 997TT has an AUTOMATIC transmission which is FASTER than a manual transmission with one extra gear. This of course makes the 997TT appeal to the poseur crowd, where people just want to show off their cars in a straight line. With a fast automatic, the 997TT has essentially become a lighter and more nimble version of the MB SL55. I certainly won't buy a car where an automatic is faster than a manual, especially with one less gear. Sequential transmissions aren't a problem, but torque converter trannies? Give us a break, Porsche!

    Re: The 997 Turbo - Controversial Opinions?

    Something more... Porsche didnt fail (As you believe) to produce a car with more than 500hp as you say...
    I dont know who the hell is on the marketing department of Porsche, but wake up, this guy just wants (we like it or not) to make more sales and better profits...
    For this reason he made the car 480hp, to have room to present the turbo S with 520 or 530 (depends and from the competition) i dont know how much later, in order to have a reason to change your simple 997tt for turbo S and with PDK gearbox...
    He maybe also made the car automatic to earn EVEN MORE customers from BMW M6 or Mercedes SL AMG, or even from Cayenne turbo owners.
    You like it or not Porsche is trying to make sales. This is VERY Good for the company and very Bad for us who invest big ammounts of money for the TOP models of Porsche.
    Porsche just produces cars for all the people economic range...( See Boxster Cayman 911 panamera Cayenne) I believe that in the future is going to produce small cars like SMART!

    If Lambo is going to make a faster Gallardo and fixes even more the E-gear dont be surpiced if you see all the 60+ years old people (and i dont have anything with this target group, as i will be 60 years old one day) to drive Porsche Turbos, and the real sport driving lovers to have lambos or even F430 for their car...

    Finally i believe that the target group of F430 or a Z06 or even a 2006 Gallardo will be much more driving lovers from the AUTOMATIC 997tt.

    Re: The 997 Turbo - Controversial Opinions?

    I want to add something else!
    When you drive a Sport car, it is not only how fast it is on 0-100 or 0-200km (i can place in a simple car a very fast engine with 5 turbos and nitro and i dont know what else) and make it the fastest on earth.. The real ansear of a sport car is the FEELING you have when you drive it...
    This is what we all pay for.

    Can the new AUTOMATIC 997TT give me that Feeling I am searching for????

    Re: The 997 Turbo - Controversial Opinions?

    Quote:
    Crash said:For the 993TT it was the hardcore sports car enthusiast. The car was raw and loud and it was pretty much the fastest thing on the road, save for a few supercars.



    The Turbo, in 996 and 997 forms, has become way too "GT'ish". Porsche has added all the "fluff" items, and rounded off the edges of what was once a hard edged sports car, just to open the car up to a wider market of potential buyers. Since I consider myself a "sports car" guy, and not a "GT" guy, I have been stiff armed farther and farther away from the Porsche product line. I don't think NAV has any place in a real sports car, just like cup holders, a "soft" riding suspension, less responsive steering rack, mushy shifter, quiet exhaust, or an automatic transmission.

    I bought a 996 Turbo knowing it was going to be "soft", but also knowing I could fix the problem. I deleted the sunroof, and added X73, a better/louder exhaust, a B&M shifter, a better clutch and lightweight flywheel, and more power via a Stage 2 upgrade. The car is now sufficiently "sports car"...it's hard edged, loud, fast, handles great...and has a 6-speed. It's been targeted with these upgrades to achieve what I think Porsche should produce right from the factory - a real sports car.

    I don't ever plan on selling my 996 Turbo, and if I add another sports car, it certainly won't be a 997 Turbo...

    Re: The 997 Turbo - Controversial Opinions?

    Quote:
    Dock (Atlanta) said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:For the 993TT it was the hardcore sports car enthusiast. The car was raw and loud and it was pretty much the fastest thing on the road, save for a few supercars.



    The Turbo, in 996 and 997 forms, has become way too "GT'ish". Porsche has added all the "fluff" items, and rounded off the edges of what was once a hard edged sports car, just to open the car up to a wider market of potential buyers. Since I consider myself a "sports car" guy, and not a "GT" guy, I have been stiff armed farther and farther away from the Porsche product line. I don't think NAV has any place in a real sports car, just like cup holders, a "soft" riding suspension, less responsive steering rack, mushy shifter, quiet exhaust, or an automatic transmission.

    I bought a 996 Turbo knowing it was going to be "soft", but also knowing I could fix the problem. I deleted the sunroof, and added X73, a better/louder exhaust, a B&M shifter, a better clutch and lightweight flywheel, and more power via a Stage 2 upgrade. The car is now sufficiently "sports car"...it's hard edged, loud, fast, handles great...and has a 6-speed. It's been targeted with these upgrades to achieve what I think Porsche should produce right from the factory - a real sports car.

    I don't ever plan on selling my 996 Turbo, and if I add another sports car, it certainly won't be a 997 Turbo...



    Some VERY Good points. These cars should have a DELETE option for all of the standard items, even powered windows, if the client would so desire.

     
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