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    Re: Has the BMW M3 gone soft?

    Nah, just made for a wider audience. The new M3 does 0-60 in 4.4 seconds according to motor trend and they expect it to do a bit better when they get it in the states opposed to Spain.

    Additionally, they say that it is just right. Surely, it won't be an AWD RS4... but that will be left for the CSL to deal with. I hate how people compare the M3 to an RS4... audi has an S4 out--- compare it that...

    That's like comparing the GT3 to the GT3RS or the turbo to the GT2 - two different cars made for two different groups of people.

    The CSL will once again shut people up and stop all of this talk.

    Re: Has the BMW M3 gone soft?

    Price/Powerwise Audi RS4 = BMW M3 that's why everyone is comparing them.

    Re: Has the BMW M3 gone soft?

    Yep, spot on... THere is only Pounds500 between them price wise... Both V8... Both pushing out just over 400bhp... They are def in the same league...

    THe CSL is a very different car to the RS4...

    Re: Has the BMW M3 gone soft?

    Power wise yeah... price? an RS4 starts out (at least here in the states) at 72k MSRP... an M3 will start out at 60k MSRP. Price wise these two aren't close... at least here in the US.

    Re: Has the BMW M3 gone soft?

    Here in the uk the M is Pounds50,500 and the RS is about Pounds51,000, so extremely close...

    You guys in the US are so bloody lucky... Your $60k M3 equates to Pounds30k here... Although a good chunk of that is the weak dollar right now.

    Re: Has the BMW M3 gone soft?

    Otwo9, are you refering to the price of the E46 M3 or the E92? In Australia, the E46 is just a bit more expensive than the S4, but the E92 will be about the same price as the RS4...

    Re: Has the BMW M3 gone soft?

    Quote:
    RichJ said:
    Here in the uk the M is Pounds50,500 and the RS is about Pounds51,000, so extremely close...

    You guys in the US are so bloody lucky... Your $60k M3 equates to Pounds30k here... Although a good chunk of that is the weak dollar right now.



    Need to compare NBR of M3 vs C63 vs RS....

    Straight-line need to factor in tq curves of each for real-world, daily fwy driving....

    Will M3 (or CSL) have competent brakes? A first for BMW if they do....

    In US, need to really compare costs of $0 down, 2 yr leases of each of these cars....most frugal buyers lease; mfrs (esp BMW) subsidize leases, so relative MSRP can be misleading....

    Re: Has the BMW M3 gone soft?

    60k will be the msrp... optioned up maybe 64-65 us dollars. That still is an alright price to pay for what you are getting. In regard to a RS4--- yeah, they start at basically porsche 911 prices here. The steering wheel is the same as the normal S4 (huge disappointment) and the seats are the same as the normal S4 (amazing disappointment).

    I live in AZ and see Ferrari's, Bentley's, Maserati's and even a few Bugatti's if I am lucky. I HAVE NEVER seen an RS4 on the roads b/c the cost of one and what you get doesn't match in most individuals minds.

    In regard to all of that- I am saying this- The M3 is basically the AMG of the BMW line (really should be M of the AMG line based on age). AMG has 3 to four different classes- There is the AMG, AMG black, AMG 65's, and that race version where they build limited cars. AUDI has S, and RS. BMW has M and for the 3 series, CSL's. Compare apples to apples- saying that an AMG black is the same as a normal AMG car is not a real comparison. Saying an RS4 (even though BMW stupidly pits the M up to it) is a direct comparison to the Top Range sport model is a bad comparison.

    RS is the top of the range for audi.. CSL is the top of the range for BMW M. I say keep it fair even if BMW is stupid enough to try to think that anyone in the US buys any RS series.

    Re: Has the BMW M3 gone soft?

    Hi Way,
    I guy i know is getting an M3 early next month, he is not getting much change out of $190k on the road so it is around $10k more than the RS4. Can get used RS4's with 8,000 km for $160k

    Re: Has the BMW M3 gone soft?

    nearly 190k for a M3??!!

    no thanks.
    get a used C2S.
    or a new Boxster S

    Re: Has the BMW M3 gone soft?

    Isn't that because Australia gets a limited or somewhere about the least amount of these cars? I read that the you guys get the Convertible RS4 (not sold here in the states) but it will cost like 200k.

    Re: Has the BMW M3 gone soft?

    Quote:
    0two9 said:
    Power wise yeah... price? an RS4 starts out (at least here in the states) at 72k MSRP... an M3 will start out at 60k MSRP. Price wise these two aren't close... at least here in the US.

    According to the current configurator on the Audi USA website, the RS4 starts at $66,000, and the only cost option is the addition of rear side airbags for $350.

    EDIT: For some reason it appears as though the $4,700 premium package (WSR) isn't listed on the Audi site, but including it a fully loaded RS4 would end up at $71,050.

    Re: Has the BMW M3 gone soft?

    In France, the new M3 costs 72.900 Euro .
    The RS4 costs 77.000 Euro .

    Re: Has the BMW M3 gone soft?

    $73,000-$74,000 is a fairly common MSRP in the states.

    Also, it's not fair to compare the CSL to the RS4. The CSL isn't even available in the states and it's basically BMW's GT3. Audi doesn't have a model like that.

    Re: Has the BMW M3 gone soft?

    Don't know about import limited number, think that is taken care of by supply and demand ie limited number of people can afford it!

    Yes we do have the convertible RS4 and it is $189k plus on road costs so yes it will be over $200k!

    Re: Has the BMW M3 gone soft?

    Quote:
    Woolfe said:
    Hi Way,
    I guy i know is getting an M3 early next month, he is not getting much change out of $190k on the road so it is around $10k more than the RS4. Can get used RS4's with 8,000 km for $160k



    $190k? You have got to be kidding. No thank you. I have one on order but have not been told pricing on it. Definitely not interested now. Can't wait to hear about the RS5. I was in Audi Forum Beijing today, and the guy there has contacts directly with the factory, and have been told to expect the RS5 one year from S5. We should be seeing the car in Geneva next year then.

    Re: Has the BMW M3 gone soft?

    @0two9

    LMAO

    You actually wanted to compare the M3 with the Audi S4

    Re: Has the BMW M3 gone soft?

    You guys must be kidding in regard to the scale of things not comparing the M3 to the S4 or a C63 (when it comes out). You guys are missing the idea of mid to premium in the way that you are comparing things.

    There is an S4 and an RS4 --- the RS4 is kinda limited and costs a premium over the S4. There is an M3 and there will be a CSL M3 that will be released all over the world. How can you say that the M3 doesn't compare to the S4 or the C55 and C53 when it comes out? Or even the S5 if you want to compare it to that.

    RS is pretty much Audi's most hardcore and last notch in regard to sport with their cars. With the M3 there is another notch that it can go and that is the CSL which was pretty much released everywhere but the US.

    Think about it guys... I think comparing apples to apples is a good idea. Just because the RS4 dropped a year or two ago you guys want to compare it to the JUST the M3 --- that isn't a fair comparison.

    Additionally, the RS series was first introduced in the US with the RS6 a few years ago. Before that--- THE RS' did not EXIST here and thus would not have even been a legitimate comparison for most vehicles. So think about it- top of the range limited sport model vs sport model of the three series. It isn't even at the top of the range yet.

    What's next? Comparing a GT3 to the M3 as well?

    Re: Has the BMW M3 gone soft?

    Sorry Otwo9, but I think you are the only one missing the point. You seem to be comparing cars according to their badging, rather than their performance. The Audi S4 has 340hp. The new M3 will have 415hp. The RS4 has 420hp. The M3 and RS4 are not only direct competitors in price, but performance #'s as well. What competition would there be in comparing the new M3 and Audi S4 when the S4 is clearly outclassed?

    The Audi S4 would be a direct competitor to the BMW 335i, but not the M3. Audi's only answer to the M3 would be the RS4, and when looking at Audi's A4 lineup, they simply won't have a car to compete with the M3 CSL.

    You seem to think their is a direct correlation between Audi S and BMW M, and Audi RS and BMW M CSL, but clearly there is not.

    Re: Has the BMW M3 gone soft?

    Quote:
    Nrgy said:
    Sorry Otwo9, but I think you are the only one missing the point. You seem to be comparing cars according to their badging, rather than their performance. The Audi S4 has 340hp. The new M3 will have 415hp. The RS4 has 420hp. The M3 and RS4 are not only direct competitors in price, but performance #'s as well. What competition would there be in comparing the new M3 and Audi S4 when the S4 is clearly outclassed?

    The Audi S4 would be a direct competitor to the BMW 335i, but not the M3. Audi's only answer to the M3 would be the RS4, and when looking at Audi's A4 lineup, they simply won't have a car to compete with the M3 CSL.

    You seem to think their is a direct correlation between Audi S and BMW M, and Audi RS and BMW M CSL, but clearly there is not.



    Well said. The RS4 sacrifices none of the comfort versus the S4, while the CSL does in comparison to the standard M3.

    Re: Has the BMW M3 gone soft?

    How is the S4 a direct competitor to the 335? There is a pretty big price difference and one is a dedicated sport model while the other is the top of the range normal model. I think that is the problem I am having. One wouldn't compare an AMG or M car to a non AMG or M car or an S or RS... that doesn't make sense.

    Additionally, that doesn't make a difference in my opinion that their S version of the car is now underpowered b/c bmw has a new model --- if there was no RS (just like the year before) it would have been compared to just the S.

    IMO Mercedes, BMW, and AUDI do have an answer for the CSL --- it will be the RS versions of Audi's, the Black cars that AMG makes, and the CSL's that BMW makes. To me, they don't go any further than those- those are the last rung of cars that people can purchase that are pretty much sports cars.

     
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