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    Re: Ring time

    This cut from the NBR times (below) shows a 7:40.


    7:28 - 166.652 km/h - Porsche Carrera GT, 612 PS/ 1475 kg, Walther Roehrl, (Autobild 07/04)
    7:32* - 164.071 km/h - Pagani Zonda F, 650 PS/ 1230 kg, (*mfr.) www.autodrome-cannes.com/index-eng.asp
    7:34 - 163.586 km/h - Koenigsegg CCR, 806 PS/1418 kg, Horst von Saurma (sport auto), oct,17-18 05
    7:36 - 162.631 km/h - Porsche Carrera GT, 612 PS/ 1475 kg, factory test driver Walther Röhrl (02)
    7.39* - 161.575 km/h - Porsche 997 GT3, 415 PS/1395 kg, *mfr. (quote sport auto 05/06)
    7:40 - 161.217 km/h - Bugatti 16/4 Veyron, 1001 PS/1980 kg (Wheels magazine Australia, 12/05)
    7:40 - 161.217 km/h - Mercedes Benz SLR McLaren, Klaus Ludwig (AutoBild 07/04)
    7:40 - 161.217 km/h - Porsche 997 Turbo, 480 PS/ ??? kg, Michelin Cup Sport tyres (Motortrend)
    7:42* - 160.519 km/h - Ford GT, 550 PS/ 1521 kg (*as indicated by Octane magazine, 11/05)
    7:42.9 - 160.207 km/h - Corvette Z06, 500 PS/1319 kg, Jan Magnusen, (Sporbilen, jun,26 05), www.supercars.net/Pics?vpf2=y&gID=3&fID=0&tID=10073&mID=1384471&l=d
    7:43 - 160.173 km/h - Porsche 996 GT3 RS, factory test driver Walter Roehrl (MOTOR magazine)
    7:43.5 - 160,000 km/h - Lamborghini Murcielago (Autocar magazine 02)
    7:45* - 159.484 km/h - McLaren F1, *estimated lap time from a video available at www.pistonheads.tv
    7:46 - 159.142 km/h - Porsche 996 GT2, 462 PS/1450 kg (sport auto 06/01)
    7:48 - 158.463 km/h - Porsche 997 GT3, 415 PS/1440kg (sport auto 07/06) www.supercars.net/PitLane?viewThread=y&gID=0&fID=2&tID=91836
    7.49 - 158.124 km/h - Porsche 996 GT3, 392 PS (AutoBild 2004), www.autobild.de/tuning/testberichte/artikel.php?artikel_id=7274&artikel_seite=4
    7:49 - 158.124 km/h - Porsche 996 GT3 Cup, 360 PS/1207 kg (sport auto 02/99)

    Mike

    Re: Ring time

    These times are WORTHLESS since they're a mix of different drivers, different test methods, etc.

    Re: Ring time

    RC,

    I wouldn't say WORTHLESS, since the 997 Turbo recorded a 7:40 time and the above post stated a 7:42 time both with Cup tires. Sure you can't compare times between cars without more data but CAN state the lower time was recorded as 7:40 and that's what I said!

    Mike

    Re: Ring time

    Quote:
    mawyatt said:
    RC,

    I wouldn't say WORTHLESS, since the 997 Turbo recorded a 7:40 time and the above post stated a 7:42 time both with Cup tires. Sure you can't compare times between cars without more data but CAN state the lower time was recorded as 7:40 and that's what I said!

    Mike



    Mike, of course I would LOVE to see the 997 Turbo doing a 7:40 time, no doubt about it. However I'm always a little bit careful with test results, especially because it is impossible to compare for example a track time achieved by two different drivers.

    Re: Ring time

    RC,

    Agreed, however unless Motortrend is fibbing someone did record on Cup tires a 7:40! Under what conditions I don't know, probably with WR behind the wheel!!

    Mike

    Re: Ring time

    RC,

    BTW look who was driving the Z06, don't know about any of the other conditions but they certainly weren't holding back at the wheel!!

    Mike

    Re: Ring time

    I loved the 997 Turbo when it was announced and before they had given any specs out, I thought porsche would be able to out do the Z06 but unfortunetly it hasnt been able to either on a challenging track like the ring or on any other track..

    Turbo needed Cup tires to imporve the 7:47 time where as throw cup tires on the Z06 and you will see CGT time is prety much treatened...Z06 would have been in the 7:35-37 range with cup tires..

    Turbo has been a little let down in performance, but its still a sweet looking ride...and plenty powerful for everyday use, but you just cant have bragging rights with it..

    Re: Ring time

    Quote:
    crazi4speed said:
    I loved the 997 Turbo when it was announced and before they had given any specs out, I thought porsche would be able to out do the Z06 but unfortunetly it hasnt been able to either on a challenging track like the ring or on any other track..

    Turbo needed Cup tires to imporve the 7:47 time where as throw cup tires on the Z06 and you will see CGT time is prety much treatened...Z06 would have been in the 7:35-37 range with cup tires..

    Turbo has been a little let down in performance, but its still a sweet looking ride...and plenty powerful for everyday use, but you just cant have bragging rights with it..



    The 7:42.9 time for the Corvette was a FLYING lap, not a STANDING START lap. Besides, no credible inflrmation was given about the car in the test, the tyres used, etc. Wait for the Sport Auto test, that will illustrate its real potential.

    Re: Ring time

    aahh..FLYING start..yes thats how all are tested and you really have to be naive to belive that the 997 Turbo was tested without a flying start, even the CGT was tested with a Flying start...

    so if you dont belive the Z06 time, why should believe porsche's official time, god knows were they running the next rummored power upgrade on the turbo with some 520 hp or something? who knows? they could have removed the back seats to make it lighter, i mean if you dont believ official times then there is nothing you can.

    As for sports auto driving the car, i am sure that would be cool, but Z06 is a harder car to handle and i am sure those guys would not be able to pull a good time in the car but then again who knows..I would love to see what happens, but since sports auto runs there and have run in many porsche, they already know the setup and are comfortable with it, unlike the vette...

    anyhow i would be waiting..

    Re: Ring time

    Quote:
    crazi4speed said:
    aahh..FLYING start..yes thats how all are tested and you really have to be naive to belive that the 997 Turbo was tested without a flying start, even the CGT was tested with a Flying start...

    so if you dont belive the Z06 time, why should believe porsche's official time, god knows were they running the next rummored power upgrade on the turbo with some 520 hp or something? who knows? they could have removed the back seats to make it lighter, i mean if you dont believ official times then there is nothing you can.

    As for sports auto driving the car, i am sure that would be cool, but Z06 is a harder car to handle and i am sure those guys would not be able to pull a good time in the car but then again who knows..I would love to see what happens, but since sports auto runs there and have run in many porsche, they already know the setup and are comfortable with it, unlike the vette...

    anyhow i would be waiting..



    That's the thing! I don't believe Porsche's official times. And no, the cars normally aren't tested with a flying start. That was a cheap publicity stunt by GM. A really fast car, nonetheless, but a dishonest tactic. Like I said, wait for Sport Auto to test both cars. Same driver, with years of experience on the 'Ring.

    Re: Ring time

    Quote:
    Crash said: Like I said, wait for Sport Auto to test both cars. Same driver, with years of experience on the 'Ring.



    Amen.

    Re: Ring time

    Quote:
    crazi4speed said:
    aahh..FLYING start..yes thats how all are tested and you really have to be naive to belive that the 997 Turbo was tested without a flying start, even the CGT was tested with a Flying start...




    All sportauto times havee been done with a standing start. It is obvious (given the relative ranking to 996TT etc.) that the 997TT times have been done with a standing start as well.

    So the Z06 time is not comparable as it was done with a flying start (making up for a difference of several seconds).

    Re: Ring time

    The CGT is still the king.

    The others just follow.

    Think you are fast, think again! The CGT is very unbeatable
    for a street auto. It really deserves continued respect.

    Re: Ring time

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    The CGT is still the king.

    The others just follow.

    Think you are fast, think again! The CGT is very unbeatable
    for a street auto. It really deserves continued respect.



    Very true. And not just the performance, look at its looks and sound. IMO has way more presence than the Enzo.

    Re: Ring time

    Quote:
    Crash said:

    Very true. And not just the performance, look at its looks and sound. IMO has way more presence than the Enzo.




    Re: Ring time

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Very true. And not just the performance, look at its looks and sound. IMO has way more presence than the Enzo.




    Re: Ring time

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Very true. And not just the performance, look at its looks and sound. IMO has way more presence than the Enzo.



    So true, to some of us, including me. Others might disagree
    -Joost-

    Re: Ring time

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Very true. And not just the performance, look at its looks and sound. IMO has way more presence than the Enzo.







    i really doubt that crash has ever seen or driven any car he's talking about.

    Re: Ring time

    Quote:
    zzboba said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Very true. And not just the performance, look at its looks and sound. IMO has way more presence than the Enzo.







    i really doubt that crash has ever seen or driven any car he's talking about.



    Funny, I was thinking the same...

    Re: Ring time

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    zzboba said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Very true. And not just the performance, look at its looks and sound. IMO has way more presence than the Enzo.







    i really doubt that crash has ever seen or driven any car he's talking about.



    Funny, I was thinking the same...



    On the other hand: who of us has driven Enzo and CGT? Some might have driven either. But both? To compare them on the basis of own experiences

    In the end qualified information is the best basis for a forum like this. Whether based on personal experiences or qualified press research - who really cares in the end

    Re: Ring time

    Quote:
    In the end qualified information is the best basis for a forum like this. Whether based on personal experiences or qualified press research - who really cares in the end



    I do. IMO it's the main reason why RENNTEAM is different from other forums. A lot of owners/drivers around -- not just some virtual theorizers, well informed or not.

    Re: Ring time

    Quote:
    zzboba said:
    Quote:
    In the end qualified information is the best basis for a forum like this. Whether based on personal experiences or qualified press research - who really cares in the end



    I do. IMO it's the main reason why RENNTEAM is different from other forums. A lot of owners/drivers around -- not just some virtual theorizers, well informed or not.




    Of course it is of major importance that a significant number of owners is posting their views and experiences here

    However, qualified knowledge acquired through the press often is a complementary piece of information in discussing and evaluating cars. Don't you think so

    Re: Ring time

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    zzboba said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Very true. And not just the performance, look at its looks and sound. IMO has way more presence than the Enzo.







    i really doubt that crash has ever seen or driven any car he's talking about.



    Funny, I was thinking the same...



    I have seen both the Enzo and the CGT, side-by-side. The CGT has more presence. Of course, that is subjective, but statements such as yours only sound ignorant and childish. Had I said that the Enzo had more presence, you'd be giving the thumbs up until tomorrow...

    Re: Ring time

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    crazi4speed said:
    aahh..FLYING start..yes thats how all are tested and you really have to be naive to belive that the 997 Turbo was tested without a flying start, even the CGT was tested with a Flying start...




    All sportauto times havee been done with a standing start. It is obvious (given the relative ranking to 996TT etc.) that the 997TT times have been done with a standing start as well.

    So the Z06 time is not comparable as it was done with a flying start (making up for a difference of several seconds).



    I think your claim is inaccurate, if this was the case, it would always be writen next to the times, if the 996/997 times is so great with a standing start then how come on smaller tracks also the Z06 is quicker..

    I dont get it, y is it that most everyone here wants to prove that the turbo is quciker than the Z06, I love the new Turbo but you wouldnt see me going and saying that it is quicker just cuz its my fav car for now..anyhow if you want to think that the ring times are standing start then thats fine, even the corvette quaterly said it was a standing start for the z06 but i dont believe it..

    Re: Ring time

    Quote:
    crazi4speed said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    crazi4speed said:
    aahh..FLYING start..yes thats how all are tested and you really have to be naive to belive that the 997 Turbo was tested without a flying start, even the CGT was tested with a Flying start...




    All sportauto times havee been done with a standing start. It is obvious (given the relative ranking to 996TT etc.) that the 997TT times have been done with a standing start as well.

    So the Z06 time is not comparable as it was done with a flying start (making up for a difference of several seconds).



    I think your claim is inaccurate, if this was the case, it would always be writen next to the times, if the 996/997 times is so great with a standing start then how come on smaller tracks also the Z06 is quicker..

    I dont get it, y is it that most everyone here wants to prove that the turbo is quciker than the Z06, I love the new Turbo but you wouldnt see me going and saying that it is quicker just cuz its my fav car for now..anyhow if you want to think that the ring times are standing start then thats fine, even the corvette quaterly said it was a standing start for the z06 but i dont believe it..



    The times are standing start, end of discussion. If you don't believe MKSGR or me, send an e-mail to Mr. Von Saurma himself. Not trying to prove that the Turbo is faster (at best, Porsche only matched its straight line performance to the Corvette), but be reasonable.
    If a manufacturer claims its times are standing start, I'd take that claim very loosely, but when a respected magazine, such as Sport Auto, states this, I believe them.

    Re: Ring time

    Quote:
    zzboba said:
    Quote:
    In the end qualified information is the best basis for a forum like this. Whether based on personal experiences or qualified press research - who really cares in the end



    I do. IMO it's the main reason why RENNTEAM is different from other forums. A lot of owners/drivers around -- not just some virtual theorizers, well informed or not.




    amen~

    Re: Ring time

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Had I said that the Enzo had more presence, you'd be giving the thumbs up until tomorrow...



    Wrong Crash. I'd say the presence of both cars is highly comparable, but to say the CGT "has way more presence than the Enzo" is just - how do you say - ignorant and childish.

    Re: Ring time

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Had I said that the Enzo had more presence, you'd be giving the thumbs up until tomorrow...



    Wrong Crash. I'd say the presence of both cars is highly comparable, but to say the CGT "has way more presence than the Enzo" is just - how do you say - ignorant and childish.



    Really? I've seen both cars in the flesh, both seperately and together and to me, the CGT feels more like it means the business. Yes, I know about the Enzo's stellar performance and I think it looks stunning. However, I still maintain that the CGT has more presence. To claim that this attitude is ignorant and childish is just plain ignorant and childish .

    Re: Ring time

    Come one Crash.. You are wrong here...
    You cant say that CGT has more presence than Enzo.. Enzo Ferrari will come back from THE DEAD with these things he hears... Let him rest in piece... he has died so many years now...

     
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