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    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    Probably needs new tires? or the roads are really bad


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    My understanding is that he was talking about both cars in the same standard config, with the base differential (Lamellen Differentialsperre), and that the PDK is capable of getting more out of it before the brakes have to intervene, thereby pushing out the threshold where you have a "dumb" brake-induced torque limiter. Not my understanding that PTV works that way, but I confess I haven't studied the matter in depth.

    I have more goodies, but I need to save them for the "real" write-up, this one was just an appetizer ;-) 


    --

    997 GT3 - 550M - 355 GTS F1 - Prius - Audi S5 Sportback


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    zeshark:
    After a morning blast on desert mountain roads in the Valencia back country, the (slight) reservations I had on the 991 Carrera S PDK have evaporated on scorched rubber and heated disc brakes. I already knew the handling knew that the handling is brilliant, it truly shone on these twisty and narrow mountainous roads. The engine on this 7000km car was a lot more lively, pulling hard from 3000rpm all the way to the 7600rpm redline, with that eager bite in the throttle response that only great naturally aspirated engines procure. PDK brilliant, a bit sluggish when cold, taking its time to shift until the oil got warm. Responsive, predictable, playful. A not so small detail on the box: in Sport Plus mode, some say it will upshift at redline, some say it won't. Both are right, or wrong. Reality is that it depends on the throttle position. If you mash it down to the kickdown switch, it will upshift. If you stop your foot against the switch, it will bump against the limiter.

    So PDK or 7spd manual ? Still don't know. Porsche is so focused on the PDK, so it's down to customers or dealers to let you sample one. Michael Schaetzle still has a soft spot for the manual, but is quick to point out that a manual does not work the electronic diff as well as the PDK, and it shows in slippery conditions where a manual can't keep up. Schaetzle told me he prefers the manual, but the PDK works the diff better and is not possible to follow in slippery conditions, let alone snow, with a manual.

    PDCC or not ? Don't know either. Only a couple of cars were not equipped, and not labelled as such either, so it's hard to hold a comparison. In doubt, I'd tick the box.

    So after a second day behind the wheel, I am even more convinced than before. I used the terrm 'comical' and it made some cringe. How about brutal ? And yes, I have a 997 too ...

    I have nice pics, insights and videos, more to come ...

    thanks for this 'appetizer' review, which completely is in sync with my brief experience behind the wheel of this car. It really is sex on wheels and as we say in German 'eine eierlegende Wollmilchsau' , in the sense that it has a huge envelope , from sporty to GT like, unlike any 911 before.

    The only issue i have - similar to RC, is its family transportation capability. Thats why Panamera and Cayenne are always a part of my equation. Unfortunately for them though, the new 911 is so sublime that they somehow will always feel second best. I guess i will have to go test drive a panamera gts or turbo to find out if that really could be an alternative...  Smiley


    --

    turbolite


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    reginos:

    "At motorway speeds there’s a huge amount of road noise, which seems slightly at odds with the 911’s new-found GT character."

    Strange comment from Auto Express.  All other reviewers noted that road noise (a 997 weakness) is very subdued cheeky


     

    I wouldn't bother with that, roads very enormously in the road noise they produce independantly of the car and its tires, so unless you try the two cars on the same roads, any conclusion on road noise is rather useless IMO.


    --


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    zeshark:

    My understanding is that he was talking about both cars in the same standard config, with the base differential (Lamellen Differentialsperre), and that the PDK is capable of getting more out of it before the brakes have to intervene, thereby pushing out the threshold where you have a "dumb" brake-induced torque limiter. Not my understanding that PTV works that way, but I confess I haven't studied the matter in depth.

    I have more goodies, but I need to save them for the "real" write-up, this one was just an appetizer ;-) 

    Right, its just that the manual geabox necesarily gets a mechanical differential and only the mechanical one as standard equipment, it cannot opt for the electronic differential, while the PDK gets the electronic one standard, and that is why the PTV system is called "PTV Plus" in the PDK and only "PTV" in the manual. So that could account for the difference in the action of the differentials he noticed between the manual and the PDK 991, they are different types of differentials in the manual cars vs PDK cars.


    --


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    Ther have been several questions raised since Jan 23 on the 7sp manual...all except the above indicating there is no information...just rumers.

    Back 4 days Jan 23 I wrote a piece on 2 road tests from major magazines; with Frankel of 'GTPorsche' and Towler of '911 & Porsche World' driving both transmissions extensively [Porsche fleet-test cars that were 'run in']. First reviews of both tranies... Both men, who normally prefer good Manuals over good Autos, noted that to their dismay the Manual's qualities were down a notch [<than the 997] and the PDK s clearly up a notch [they would need to be, as I drove 997 PDKs]... and now were exceptionally good..fullfilling the promised dream of a trany that provided the best of manual  and auto- capabilities [now with the best PDKs in the world]. Towler's test had several manuals and several drivers; each car was different but none was really good [variability in quality is a bad sign].

    Whether Porsche can correct these flaws of shift quality remains to be seen. Until a 'fix' is announced....or like the rubber bushings in the rear suspensions of the first few months of 997 production [my Carrera 2 of MAY [!] 2005, most other 'early' 2 and 2S cars in North Amercia, plus Europeans [reported in 'Excellence' Porsche Mag]] , fixed WITHOUT comment  [the Carrera 4 and 4S were OK, as were the other variants of 2005]...we will not know. The 'fix' was available from Manthey Motors, and involved the rotation of the bushings of one control arm, left and right,  by 180 degrees!

    We suggest real caution in ordering a manual until we can have confidence in a 'fix'...and superficial testing of a very new demonstrator may not be revealing. Manuals often require as much 'running in' as the engine does! I have had to change my order to the PDK. The PDK-911is described by Andrew Frankel as 'mesmerising'! ...rather than '"OTHERWISE good, B....good" for the Manual-911, after which testing he "was not jumping for joy".

    Pity...caution!

    KiwiCanuk

     


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    the new porsche 911 achieved a lap of 1:22.98 on magny-cours in france. Now that is impressive for a car with only 400hp to beat the mercedes benz sls amg with 570 hp by more than half a second.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uudR30f-Ae4


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    Only 0,08 secs off their 997Turbo S lap time angel


    --


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    Carlos from Spain:

    Only 0,08 secs off their 997Turbo S lap time angel

    ...even better-that test example is NOT equiped with optional -20mm PASM/PDCC.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    yeh, now think of what the next turbo and gt3 would be able to do?? AMAZING stuff by porsche, bravo Smiley


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    KresoF1:
    Carlos from Spain:

    Only 0,08 secs off their 997Turbo S lap time angel

    ...even better-that test example is NOT equiped with optional -20mm PASM/PDCC.

    Amazing, from a 400HP CarreraS in standard suspension trim. The performance jump they made in the 991, and I'm not talking about acceleration but rather in stability, handling, curve speed, etc in going to give a lot to talk about when the more extreme versions start to roll out like the 991GT3RS. You could inmediately tell when you get behind the wheel the potential it has. Its like if they have skipped a whole generation jump and jumped two steps foward at once. Wonder if its competitors will be able to make the same jump...


    --


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    For you guys considering order Carrera Red interior. Just found some real life pics of this combo. I've never been a fan of red interiors, but I have to admit that it looks really good on the 991. Especially on a black car kiss

    991_red_1.jpg

    991_red_2.jpg

    991_red_3.jpg


    --

    On Order: 991 C2S Basalt Black/Black - PDK, PSE, SPASM, SportChrono, etc.
    Sold: 997.2 C2S Meteor Grey/Black - PDK, PSE, LSD, SportChrono, etc.
    Sold: 997.1 C2S Black/Black - PSE, PCCB, -20mm/LSD, Short-shifter, SportChrono, etc.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    Lukas,

    That 991 at Porsche Hamburg is featuring many Z codes from Porsche Exclusive. Upper door cover, parts of upper dash cover are in black leather while carpets are in black as well. That is not standard when you order Carrera Red interior(only thing is black Alcantara are all roof cover and all roof pillars).


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    BTW, here is Lime Gold one with -20mm option from Porsche Mannheim.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    KresoF1:

    Lukas,

    That 991 at Porsche Hamburg is featuring many Z codes from Porsche Exclusive. Upper door cover, parts of upper dash cover are in black leather while carpets are in black as well. That is not standard when you order Carrera Red interior(only thing is black Alcantara are all roof cover and all roof pillars).

    Thjanks for the heads up KresoF1. Didn't thought that it was possible to order all these exclusive parts already from porsch exclusive. Looks good anyhow, but certainly quite expensive Smiley

    When on the topic of -20mm.. found this yellow 991 with -20 mm and front lip painted.. quite unique and probably painted aftermarket like the black wheels without the silver ring.

    991_yellow1.jpg


    --

    On Order: 991 C2S Basalt Black/Black - PDK, PSE, SPASM, SportChrono, etc.
    Sold: 997.2 C2S Meteor Grey/Black - PDK, PSE, LSD, SportChrono, etc.
    Sold: 997.1 C2S Black/Black - PSE, PCCB, -20mm/LSD, Short-shifter, SportChrono, etc.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    Porsche 991 Carrera S review by Autoblog...

    Porsche 991 Carrera S review by Autoblog NL -- Video Link


    Porsche 911 (991) Top Speed: 300 km/h

    Porsche 911 (991) Top Speed: 300 km/h -- Autoblog NL -- Video Link

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    Carlos from Spain:
    KresoF1:
    Carlos from Spain:

    Only 0,08 secs off their 997Turbo S lap time angel

    ...even better-that test example is NOT equiped with optional -20mm PASM/PDCC.

    Amazing, from a 400HP CarreraS in standard suspension trim. The performance jump they made in the 991, and I'm not talking about acceleration but rather in stability, handling, curve speed, etc in going to give a lot to talk about when the more extreme versions start to roll out like the 991GT3RS. You could inmediately tell when you get behind the wheel the potential it has. Its like if they have skipped a whole generation jump and jumped two steps foward at once. Wonder if its competitors will be able to make the same jump...


    --

    Carlos,

    I am very sorry to say, but it is Porsche who is playing catch up and not the other way round. The G-TR was the measure of things til now, and finally!! , ie four years later, Porsche has put out a product which handling wise is on par if not better. The new 991 TT should clearly be able to beat the GT-R - even in its last 550 hp iteration due to the fact that while having a chassis which is up to par if not slightly superior, it also weighs some 300kg less. 

    I know we are all Porsche fans but i simply have to concede that Mizuno and co have put out a product that has beaten Porsche in its own domain like no other before. The result is that we now have the 991 which is a stunning product and 'lightyears' (probably a decade) ahead of the 997. That again is a pity for the many 997 owners amongst us, but it is clear that evolution cant be stopped... So i am really looking forward to the various 991 versions about to come out, it we be a lot of fun...Smiley


    --

    turbolite


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    Oh wow Mannheim kiss, I lived there for 2 years.  Good 'ol times.


    --
    Happy Driving

    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    turbolite:
    Carlos from Spain:
    KresoF1:
    Carlos from Spain:

    Only 0,08 secs off their 997Turbo S lap time angel

    ...even better-that test example is NOT equiped with optional -20mm PASM/PDCC.

    Amazing, from a 400HP CarreraS in standard suspension trim. The performance jump they made in the 991, and I'm not talking about acceleration but rather in stability, handling, curve speed, etc in going to give a lot to talk about when the more extreme versions start to roll out like the 991GT3RS. You could inmediately tell when you get behind the wheel the potential it has. Its like if they have skipped a whole generation jump and jumped two steps foward at once. Wonder if its competitors will be able to make the same jump...


    --

    Carlos,

    I am very sorry to say, but it is Porsche who is playing catch up and not the other way round. The G-TR was the measure of things til now, and finally!! , ie four years later, Porsche has put out a product which handling wise is on par if not better. The new 991 TT should clearly be able to beat the GT-R - even in its last 550 hp iteration due to the fact that while having a chassis which is up to par if not slightly superior, it also weighs some 300kg less. 

    I know we are all Porsche fans but i simply have to concede that Mizuno and co have put out a product that has beaten Porsche in its own domain like no other before. The result is that we now have the 991 which is a stunning product and 'lightyears' (probably a decade) ahead of the 997. That again is a pity for the many 997 owners amongst us, but it is clear that evolution cant be stopped... So i am really looking forward to the various 991 versions about to come out, it we be a lot of fun...Smiley

    The GT-R is simply not in the same category, I would not be willing to accept the tradeoffs the GT-R brings along in order to achieve its performance like weighing like a 5 series bimmer, instrusive electronic stability systems that you can't even turn off without loosing warranty, huge size, obligatory 4 wheel drive, obligatory automatic gearbox, inability to withstand heavy use such as track use due factors like its weight, ridiculous maintenance costs and wear and tear from proper use like a trackday, reliability, etc, etc, etc....... so yes, revolutionary performance but at a price 911 lovers are not willing to pay.

    So, I mean "performance jump" but without giving all that away, a performance jump but still being a 911. That is what is amazing about what Porsche did with the 991, such performance jump while still being a RWD, agile, sporty, playful and fun sportcar... I'd like to see Nissan doing that, and if the 991CarreraS is like that, imagine in GT3RS configuration! And its competitors I refer to would be 911-like sportcars like Ferrari, Lambo, R8, etc... even Corvette ZR's.... but not a GT-R, not for me anyway.


    --


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    Good post, Carlos.  And please, please Rennteamers let's not get into yet another endless 911 versus GT-R debate here....


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    Carlos from Spain:   The performance jump they made in the 991, and I'm not talking about acceleration but rather in stability, handling, curve speed, etc in going to give a lot to talk about when the more extreme versions start to roll out like the 991GT3RS. You could inmediately tell when you get behind the wheel the potential it has. Its like if they have skipped a whole generation jump and jumped two steps foward at once.


    I drove the car today and agree that the performance improvement of the chassis is quite remarkable, but I found the whole experience rather clinical and lacking in drama.  It is fast though...


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    Grant, I think it is just so competent and with no dynamic rough edges that it makes the extraordinary seem ordinary.

     


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    Carlos from Spain:
    turbolite:
    Carlos from Spain:
    KresoF1:
    Carlos from Spain:

    Only 0,08 secs off their 997Turbo S lap time angel

    ...even better-that test example is NOT equiped with optional -20mm PASM/PDCC.

    Amazing, from a 400HP CarreraS in standard suspension trim. The performance jump they made in the 991, and I'm not talking about acceleration but rather in stability, handling, curve speed, etc in going to give a lot to talk about when the more extreme versions start to roll out like the 991GT3RS. You could inmediately tell when you get behind the wheel the potential it has. Its like if they have skipped a whole generation jump and jumped two steps foward at once. Wonder if its competitors will be able to make the same jump...


    --

    Carlos,

    I am very sorry to say, but it is Porsche who is playing catch up and not the other way round. The G-TR was the measure of things til now, and finally!! , ie four years later, Porsche has put out a product which handling wise is on par if not better. The new 991 TT should clearly be able to beat the GT-R - even in its last 550 hp iteration due to the fact that while having a chassis which is up to par if not slightly superior, it also weighs some 300kg less. 

    I know we are all Porsche fans but i simply have to concede that Mizuno and co have put out a product that has beaten Porsche in its own domain like no other before. The result is that we now have the 991 which is a stunning product and 'lightyears' (probably a decade) ahead of the 997. That again is a pity for the many 997 owners amongst us, but it is clear that evolution cant be stopped... So i am really looking forward to the various 991 versions about to come out, it we be a lot of fun...Smiley

    The GT-R is simply not in the same category, I would not be willing to accept the tradeoffs the GT-R brings along in order to achieve its performance like weighing like a 5 series bimmer, instrusive electronic stability systems that you can't even turn off without loosing warranty, huge size, obligatory 4 wheel drive, obligatory automatic gearbox, inability to withstand heavy use such as track use due factors like its weight, ridiculous maintenance costs and wear and tear from proper use like a trackday, reliability, etc, etc, etc....... so yes, revolutionary performance but at a price 911 lovers are not willing to pay.

    So, I mean "performance jump" but without giving all that away, a performance jump but still being a 911. That is what is amazing about what Porsche did with the 991, such performance jump while still being a RWD, agile, sporty, playful and fun sportcar... I'd like to see Nissan doing that, and if the 991CarreraS is like that, imagine in GT3RS configuration! And its competitors I refer to would be 911-like sportcars like Ferrari, Lambo, R8, etc... even Corvette ZR's.... but not a GT-R, not for me anyway.


    --

    I never said that the GTR is a substitute for a 911. The points you raise about the GtR are all valid and agreed upon. 

    The point i was making is that the GTR dinamically has made a performance leap like no other car in the last couple of years (even more so considering the price point, the weight and the size). And now finally Porsche has reacted and build the 991 series which puts it back in the ring. And of course the 991 is still a 911 and not a Nissan, I wouldnt expect any less with that tradition (and for that price tag!) .


    --

    turbolite


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    turbolite:

    I never said that the GTR is a substitute for a 911. The points you raise about the GtR are all valid and agreed upon. 

    The point i was making is that the GTR dinamically has made a performance leap like no other car in the last couple of years (even more so considering the price point, the weight and the size). And now finally Porsche has reacted and build the 991 series which puts it back in the ring. And of course the 991 is still a 911 and not a Nissan, I wouldnt expect any less with that tradition (and for that price tag!) .

    I agree that Nissan found a new formula that made a performance leap over the restSmiley 21, but they did so by not playing by the same rules as the others, so that is why I don't regard that performance leap as valid as a benchmark. Its like if I regard as what Radical did with their cars which are able to lap the ring under 7 minutes as a perfomance leap and the other are reacting now to their technology, when the Radicals are basically road legal race kit cars. Not really impressive, and certainly does not set any benchmark for Porsche. Its an exagerated example but it illustrates the point I'm trying to make.

    Porsche on the other hand made an incredible performance leap with the 991 but by still keeping to the rules (those tradeoffs mentioned above that NIssan had to take) and still keeping to the 911 character, this is what amazed me, they did it with technology and know-how and within the 911 parameters, the jump is much bigger than the jump the made from thr 996 to the 997.

    Nobody (Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo, Audi, tec) is following the GT-R's nor is considering its performance as a benchmark. I find more admirable what Corvette did over these year in how it transfromed the Vette with its Z0x's  into a proper sportcar with great handling, durability, performance, still not my cup of tea but they did it with great engines, chasis, RWD, manual boxes, etc. Not the way Nissan went about it.I guess its just a matter of opinion Smiley 21Smiley


    --


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    JimFlat6:

    Grant, I think it is just so competent and with no dynamic rough edges that it makes the extraordinary seem ordinary.

     

    That's a good way to put it...


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    Grant:
    I drove the car today and agree that the performance improvement of the chassis is quite remarkable, but I found the whole experience rather clinical and lacking in drama.  It is fast though...

     

    I test drove one the other day and felt much the same. I currently have a 997 Turbo S and whilst I would prefer the rear wheel drive, naturally aspirated engine and exhaust sound from the new Carrera S, I think that for a lot of my driving it would be as quiet and comfortable as a limo.

     

    The order books didn't seem to be bulging at my local dealer. I was offered April delivery on a C2S but the trade in on my Turbo S was really bad : loss of £45k after 18 months and 1,500 miles.

     

    I think I'll most likely wait for the new GT3.

     

    Martin

     


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    Martin Day:

    I think I'll most likely wait for the new GT3.

     

    I just hope they change the steering for the GT3 (would love a hydraulic pump powered by an electric motor like the 997 Cup), but I only expect another button on the dash that synthetically adjusts the servo assist of the Carrera's electric system.


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    That trade in value is rough, especially on such a low mileage car.  You should therefore drive the S more (more than 1K a year certainly).  What can you lose, and wow think of the fun you will have!


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    Martin Day
    loss of £45k after 18 months and 1,500 miles.

     I think I'll most likely wait for the new GT3.

    Martin

     

     Smiley,, thats a pee take. Talk about trying to profit on both units, of course, but thats ott..


    --

    throt

    "I didn't do it"


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    Wonderbar:

    That trade in value is rough, especially on such a low mileage car.  You should therefore drive the S more (more than 1K a year certainly).  What can you lose, and wow think of the fun you will have!

     

    I'll probably take it to the alps in the summer.

     

    Martin

     


     
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