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    Panamera Diesel...so long, farewell, bye bye

    Porsche just stopped Panamera Diesel production, at least for the German market.

    The reason: The Panamera Diesel was Euro 5 (emissions class) only and since September, new cars are required to have Euro 6. The upgrade to Euro 6 would have been too expensive.

    Another reason: Request for the Hybrid is higher (around 10% of all Panamera models) and the Diesel has never been available with AWD, something many customers often requested.

    Maybe time for the next generation... Smiley

    Btw: In some markets, the Panamera Diesel seems to be still available.

     


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: Panamera Diesel...so long, farewell, bye bye

    Is the Hybrid totally VW tech including the engine or something predominantly from Porsche?


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Panamera Diesel...so long, farewell, bye bye

    reginos:

    Is the Hybrid totally VW tech including the engine or something predominantly from Porsche?

    What are you insinuating???? 😜


    Re: Panamera Diesel...so long, farewell, bye bye

    RC:

    Porsche just stopped Panamera Diesel production.

    The reason: The Panamera Diesel was Euro 5 (emissions class) only and since September, new cars are required to have Euro 6. The upgrade to Euro 6 would have been too expensive.

    Another reason: Request for the Hybrid is higher (around 10% of all Panamera models) and the Diesel has never been available with AWD, something many customers often requested.

    Maybe time for the next generation... Smiley

     

    Is the hybrid version been reliable? I believe if you have a problem with hybrid system cost must be crazy highSmiley 


    --

     

    J.Seven

     

     

     


    Re: Panamera Diesel...so long, farewell, bye bye

    WAY:
    reginos:

    Is the Hybrid totally VW tech including the engine or something predominantly from Porsche?

    What are you insinuating???? 😜

    The previous hybrid before the Plug-in was totally VW. Even the steering system was different to other variants because it came with the drivetrain.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Panamera Diesel...so long, farewell, bye bye

    Maybe it is better for them to drop the diesel engines altogether.

    The only Porsche that even maybe makes sense as a diesel is the Cayenne, and even there it's somewhat questionable, since this is a light duty towing machine at best.


    Re: Panamera Diesel...so long, farewell, bye bye

    apias:

    Maybe it is better for them to drop the diesel engines altogether.

    The only Porsche that even maybe makes sense as a diesel is the Cayenne, and even there it's somewhat questionable, since this is a light duty towing machine at best.

    The Diesel makes a lot of sense for owners...cost is the magic word.

    Drove the Cayenne S Diesel, average Diesel consumption was around 16 l / 100 km, incl. some serious Autobahn high speed driving. Drove the Cayenne S, average fuel consumption was around 22 l / 100 km, incl. the same serious Autobahn high speed driving. Performance of both cars is very similar. 

    So there is a difference of 6 liters / 100 km. Premium 98 octane fuel costs around 1,37 EUR per liter. Diesel costs around 1,10 EUR per liter. Difference is 0,27 EUR per liter. 

    0,27 EUR x 6 liter = 1,62 EUR. Per 100 km additional cost.

    So the lower Diesel consumption already saves you 810 EUR over 50000 km (this is what business people usually drive in three years).

    Now take in consideration the lower Diesel price and the higher fuel price.

    The Diesel costs 8000 EUR for 50000 km (Diesel cost). The gasoline operated Cayenne costs 11000 EUR for 50000 km (fuel cost). 

    In total, you save 3810 EUR over 50000 km if you choose the Diesel. This is basically a standard set of winter wheels for the Cayenne. 

    Another advantage of the Diesel is the huge torque in the city, the car feels very powerful all the time.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Panamera Diesel...so long, farewell, bye bye

    I was at OPC Cambridge over the weekend .. they have 4 unsold new Panamera Diesels sitting outside


    Re: Panamera Diesel...so long, farewell, bye bye

    sfo:

    I was at OPC Cambridge over the weekend .. they have 4 unsold new Panamera Diesels sitting outside

    The 250 hp version was already slow, the 300 hp didn't really improve things.

    The Panamera needs a nice and smaller bi-turbo charged V8 and I think this is what the next generation is going to get. Smiley A Diesel never made sense, unless they would use the Diesel from the Cayenne S Diesel.

    In the end, I think that Porsche should stick with a Diesel in the Cayenne and Macan only.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Panamera Diesel...so long, farewell, bye bye

    I think the problem is, though, especially as more and more diesel engines are really tested and found to have much higher NOx and CO2 emissions than "tested" at that the diesel image will never recover and it will be forever marked as a dirty fuel. Also, turbocharging gives you some (not all) of the torque advantage of a diesel engine. But, mainly, as a brand image move, they should probably dump the diesels.


    Re: Panamera Diesel...so long, farewell, bye bye

    apias:

    I think the problem is, though, especially as more and more diesel engines are really tested and found to have much higher NOx and CO2 emissions than "tested" at that the diesel image will never recover and it will be forever marked as a dirty fuel. Also, turbocharging gives you some (not all) of the torque advantage of a diesel engine. But, mainly, as a brand image move, they should probably dump the diesels.

    I'm afraid we won't get rid of the Diesel in passengers cars any time soon. Especially not in Europe.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Panamera Diesel...so long, farewell, bye bye

    Probably not, but for a "premium sports/performance" brand like Porsche, it's unnecessary for them to sell a diesel. Did I mention carbon particles?


    Re: Panamera Diesel...so long, farewell, bye bye

    apias:

    Probably not, but for a "premium sports/performance" brand like Porsche, it's unnecessary for them to sell a diesel. Did I mention carbon particles?

    You are wrong. Without the Diesel, they wouldn't sell too many Cayenne or Macan in Europe. 

    In 2012, 73% of all sold Porsche Cayenne in Germany were...Diesel. I don't have newer numbers but I doubt this has changed much. In other EU countries, things look similar.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Panamera Diesel...so long, farewell, bye bye

    Interesting, but, you don't see that shifting, now that, perhaps even in Europe, diesel is no longer seen as a "green" choice? Particularly, I would think European policy makers might begin to no longer favor diesel as a fuel?


    Re: Panamera Diesel...so long, farewell, bye bye

    apias:

    Interesting, but, you don't see that shifting, now that, perhaps even in Europe, diesel is no longer seen as a "green" choice? Particularly, I would think European policy makers might begin to no longer favor diesel as a fuel?

    I do not see any change regarding Diesel in Germany...or in Europe. It may happen but as far as I can tell from the comments people make, I doubt it. Actually, I think they rather blame Obama and a US conspiracy against VW. Smiley (just kidding, there is only a minority doing that but seriously, I doubt that mentality has changed, people still buy Diesel).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Panamera Diesel...so long, farewell, bye bye

    apias:

    Interesting, but, you don't see that shifting, now that, perhaps even in Europe, diesel is no longer seen as a "green" choice? Particularly, I would think European policy makers might begin to no longer favor diesel as a fuel?

    What country is having biggest number or trucks? USA.

    What fuel is powering these trucks? Diesel...

    What country is having biggest number of Diesel locomotive in use? USA.

    How many VW small 4 cyl Diesel cars was actually sold in USA? Marginal number indeed...

    VW Diesel scandal is orchestrated,  more or less... Yes, I love these conspiracy theories. 


    Re: Panamera Diesel...so long, farewell, bye bye

    KresoF1:
    apias:

    Interesting, but, you don't see that shifting, now that, perhaps even in Europe, diesel is no longer seen as a "green" choice? Particularly, I would think European policy makers might begin to no longer favor diesel as a fuel?

    What country is having biggest number or trucks? USA.

    What fuel is powering these trucks? Diesel...

    What country is having biggest number of Diesel locomotive in use? USA.

    How many VW small 4 cyl Diesel cars was actually sold in USA? Marginal number indeed...

    VW Diesel scandal is orchestrated,  more or less... Yes, I love these conspiracy theories. 

    Indeed. Not to mention the US military Smiley Powered by environmental diesel... nah, probably not Smiley


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: Panamera Diesel...so long, farewell, bye bye

    KresoF1:
    apias:

    Interesting, but, you don't see that shifting, now that, perhaps even in Europe, diesel is no longer seen as a "green" choice? Particularly, I would think European policy makers might begin to no longer favor diesel as a fuel?

    What country is having biggest number or trucks? USA.

    What fuel is powering these trucks? Diesel...

    What country is having biggest number of Diesel locomotive in use? USA.

    How many VW small 4 cyl Diesel cars was actually sold in USA? Marginal number indeed...

    VW Diesel scandal is orchestrated,  more or less... Yes, I love these conspiracy theories. 

    Add heating oil for domestic and commercial boilers to that list, which is effectively diesel fuel.


    --

    fritz


    Re: Panamera Diesel...so long, farewell, bye bye

    KresoF1:
    apias:

    Interesting, but, you don't see that shifting, now that, perhaps even in Europe, diesel is no longer seen as a "green" choice? Particularly, I would think European policy makers might begin to no longer favor diesel as a fuel?

    What country is having biggest number or trucks? USA.

    What fuel is powering these trucks? Diesel...

    What country is having biggest number of Diesel locomotive in use? USA.

    How many VW small 4 cyl Diesel cars was actually sold in USA? Marginal number indeed...

    VW Diesel scandal is orchestrated,  more or less... Yes, I love these conspiracy theories. 

    Yes, diesel in heavy trucks and trains isn't going away any time soon, because there are no (good) alternatives.

    But, that's entirely beside and irrelevant to the point. Diesel is very likely dead for cars, SUVs and light trucks in the US. (Heavy duty pickups will likely keep it, because they need the torque for heavy towing/payloads.) I would be surprised if, after everything shakes out from the current brouhaha, it doesn't see a decline in Europe for the same, but perhaps not as quickly or extremely. "Green" is big in Europe, and now that diesel is exposed as (how was it someone put it in another thread) the devil's fuel, it's at pretty big odds with that.

    There is nothing "orchestrated" about the VW scandal. The problem, which is entirely real, was discovered entirely by chance. This doesn't mean that opportunists won't try to gain by it at the expense of VW, but the idea that the scandal is born of a conspiracy against VW is absurd. Frankly, it's a problem of VW's own making, and claims to the contrary are ridiculous.


    Re: Panamera Diesel...so long, farewell, bye bye

    fritz:
    KresoF1:
    apias:

    Interesting, but, you don't see that shifting, now that, perhaps even in Europe, diesel is no longer seen as a "green" choice? Particularly, I would think European policy makers might begin to no longer favor diesel as a fuel?

    What country is having biggest number or trucks? USA.

    What fuel is powering these trucks? Diesel...

    What country is having biggest number of Diesel locomotive in use? USA.

    How many VW small 4 cyl Diesel cars was actually sold in USA? Marginal number indeed...

    VW Diesel scandal is orchestrated,  more or less... Yes, I love these conspiracy theories. 

    Add heating oil for domestic and commercial boilers to that list, which is effectively diesel fuel.

    I am using heating oil for my house as well, I have a 15000 l tank in my garden. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Panamera Diesel...so long, farewell, bye bye

    RC:
    fritz:
    KresoF1:
    apias:

    Interesting, but, you don't see that shifting, now that, perhaps even in Europe, diesel is no longer seen as a "green" choice? Particularly, I would think European policy makers might begin to no longer favor diesel as a fuel?

    What country is having biggest number or trucks? USA.

    What fuel is powering these trucks? Diesel...

    What country is having biggest number of Diesel locomotive in use? USA.

    How many VW small 4 cyl Diesel cars was actually sold in USA? Marginal number indeed...

    VW Diesel scandal is orchestrated,  more or less... Yes, I love these conspiracy theories. 

    Add heating oil for domestic and commercial boilers to that list, which is effectively diesel fuel.

    I am using heating oil for my house as well, I have a 15000 l tank in my garden. Smiley

    We have 32.000 l tank for out house and I heat our swimming pool inside also with diesel. I tried Shell V Power but the heater didn´t start Smiley


    --

    AM
    www.aldo-yachting.de


    Re: Panamera Diesel...so long, farewell, bye bye

    ALDO:
    RC:
    fritz:
    KresoF1:
    apias:

    Interesting, but, you don't see that shifting, now that, perhaps even in Europe, diesel is no longer seen as a "green" choice? Particularly, I would think European policy makers might begin to no longer favor diesel as a fuel?

    What country is having biggest number or trucks? USA.

    What fuel is powering these trucks? Diesel...

    What country is having biggest number of Diesel locomotive in use? USA.

    How many VW small 4 cyl Diesel cars was actually sold in USA? Marginal number indeed...

    VW Diesel scandal is orchestrated,  more or less... Yes, I love these conspiracy theories. 

    Add heating oil for domestic and commercial boilers to that list, which is effectively diesel fuel.

    I am using heating oil for my house as well, I have a 15000 l tank in my garden. Smiley

    We have 32.000 l tank for out house and I heat our swimming pool inside also with diesel. I tried Shell V Power but the heater didn´t start Smiley

    I guess this is supposed to be a joke because Shell V Power is gasoline and not Diesel? Smiley
    Btw: Isn't 32000 l the content of a fuel truck? Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Panamera Diesel...so long, farewell, bye bye

    we have Shell V Power Diesel in the UK


    Re: Panamera Diesel...so long, farewell, bye bye

    sfo:

    we have Shell V Power Diesel in the UK

    In Germany as well but since he didn't mention Diesel? Smiley

    Also, the 32000 l tank kind of threw me off because it is exactly the size of a regular fuel transporter in Germany.

    Maybe I just read too much into it, considering all that joking around on Rennteam. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Panamera Diesel...so long, farewell, bye bye

    RC:
    sfo:

    we have Shell V Power Diesel in the UK

    In Germany as well but since he didn't mention Diesel? Smiley

    Also, the 32000 l tank kind of threw me off because it is exactly the size of a regular fuel transporter in Germany.

    Maybe I just read too much into it, considering all that joking around on Rennteam. Smiley

    V power was a joke. The last time I have got diesel it was a truck with 41.000 l maximum load. I did for curiosity asked. But now it looks to much. Or is water so much heavier than diesel? I thought 38 tons to be the maximum load on German roads.


    --

    AM
    www.aldo-yachting.de


    Re: Panamera Diesel...so long, farewell, bye bye

    ALDO:
    RC:
    sfo:

    we have Shell V Power Diesel in the UK

    In Germany as well but since he didn't mention Diesel? Smiley

    Also, the 32000 l tank kind of threw me off because it is exactly the size of a regular fuel transporter in Germany.

    Maybe I just read too much into it, considering all that joking around on Rennteam. Smiley

    V power was a joke. The last time I have got diesel it was a truck with 41.000 l maximum load. I did for curiosity asked. But now it looks to much. Or is water so much heavier than diesel? I thought 38 tons to be the maximum load on German roads.

    41,000l of diesel would weigh 35 tonnes, plus the weight of the tanker truck. 


    --

    fritz


    Re: Panamera Diesel...so long, farewell, bye bye

    FYI - just filled up at the local BP $2.10 for 93 Octane (the most you can get in KS)

    That is .48 Euro per Liter.

    Diesel is more expensive here ($2.45) so it makes no sense to buy a Diesel here.  They are basically Prius buyers (spending a premium to act thrifty and green).   Thanks to VW that illusion is gone. 


    Re: Panamera Diesel...so long, farewell, bye bye

    I see that Porsche has been pulled into the quagmire of VW diesels today.  I wonder if CEO can survive this since he was at helm of Porsche also.

     


    Re: Panamera Diesel...so long, farewell, bye bye

    dan996:

    I see that Porsche has been pulled into the quagmire of VW diesels today.  I wonder if CEO can survive this since he was at helm of Porsche also.


    Many have asked themselves exactly this question...Smiley


    --

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Panamera Diesel...so long, farewell, bye bye

    KresoF1:

    What country is having biggest number or trucks? USA.

    What fuel is powering these trucks? Diesel...

    What country is having biggest number of Diesel locomotive in use? USA.

    How many VW small 4 cyl Diesel cars was actually sold in USA? Marginal number indeed...

    VW Diesel scandal is orchestrated,  more or less... Yes, I love these conspiracy theories. 

    You forgot the other american diesel "vin diesel" that's been polluting youngsters minds with speed and street racing.

    What exactly isn't orchestrated when the US has a hand in it ? e.g. let's go to war and drag our allies to fight for the sake of mash potatoes and pork chops.... Smiley


     
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