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    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    spudgun:
    a928:
    the 997 will probably be the last real Porsche classic..also its much simpler car with much less electronics..that I dont need anyway..

    Here we go again.Smiley

    Please, a928, do us all a favour and stop posting these dumb posts. The 997 the last real Porsche classic? Give me a break. Most idiotic thing I've heard in this thread.

    Also, could you give that NBR laptime a rest? You're only making yourself look like a retard by not stopping to whine about it. Move on, man! Get with the program! Jeezes!

    I've got a small gift for you, while you're growing a brain: a 911 where you can see the 'beautiful' engine, enjoy!

    motor_gr.jpg

     

     


     

    Oh yes..I like that picture.Smiley.finally you answered my wish..and be assured I will not post anymore...


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Can't go wrong with black...

    Here you go guys...

    Full 1280x800 resolution here: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/QJ4qCnQrV61LTxcE6J5nKoMuojc3tLHWwkeUtmiutFE?feat=directlink

    Cheers


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    a928:

    ..and be assured I will not post anymore...

     

    thumbsUp.jpg


    --

    Morgan Aero 8


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    WHY? You have a right to an opinion. Just do not restate it time and time again in the same thread.Smiley

     


    --

     


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    I think we should vote to ban a928. I mean it is completly unacceptable having a guy who disagrees with the rest of us who now form such a cohesive view.

    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Thanks alot KresoF1 for the catalogues. Really interesting read. Based on what I can read there are a bunch of uncertanties that I at least need to have verified from tests before ordering the car.. For instance the PDCC and the Electronic steering.

    Also a bit curious about the SportDesign package for 4165 EUR.. won't be available until 04/2012 but could make quite a difference.

    There is no price mentioned for the PSE either, but it seems like it should be available to order from start according to that there are images in the catalogue showing the PSE-pipes, that more or less looks to be the same as the ordinary exhaust pipes except that they are in chrome. They could have gone with a little bit more different visual precense on the PSE I think.. but the sound is of course what counts and let's hope for the best in this department :-)


    --

    Current: 997.2 C2S Meteorgrey/Black - PDK, PSE, LSD, SportChrono, Nav, BOSE, etc.

    Sold: 997.1 C2S Black/Black - PSE, Adaptives, PCCB, -20mm/LSD, Short-shifter, SportChrono, Nav, BOSE, etc.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

     


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

     a928, its really sad that we're losing a forum member because of a 991 discussion. Please don't leave Rennteam. My simple advice to you: Take a step back, if you don't like the car fine, but don't bi**ch and moan about how the 911's dead, and you keep bringing up questions that you have, hundreds upon hundreds of times. Obviously we don't know the answer so calm down and wait for Porsche to reveal more information. 


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    a928:
    a928:

    ... the 997 will probably be the last real Porsche classic..also its much simpler car with much less electronics..that I dont need anyway..

    If Porsche messes up the 991 GT3 in the same way as the 991 ...


    .... you and some others here cannot accept that someone has a different viewpoint..thats all...

    Coming to the laptime issue, I havent driven really on NS..just for fun once..

    But I should stop from posting here....Im also registered in other forums and they are not the same at all in this respect there.

     
    Yes, please stop sharing your wisdom with us.

    Seriously, you obsess about 991 NoS lap times when you don't drive on the NoS yourself?

    You care about the 991 Carrera S lap times when you are planning to replace your used 997.1 GT3 with a used 997.2 GT3? How are the 991 NoS lap times relevant to what you are planning to do? It doesn't take a psychologist to realise that you are dismissing something that you are not planning to buy anyway just to make your own used car purchase decision feel good.

    In the process, you have succeeded in making people here ridicule you.

    If you really insist on coming back here, may I suggest you do so in about 10 years' time when you (may) have matured enough to have a sensible conversation here. In the meantime, like you said, you are registered on other forums.


    --


    997.1 C2S
     GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

     


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    @JP66: beautiful views ... IMvHO it's a very pretty 911. Very easy to fall in love with. 


    --


    997.1 C2S
     GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    motor_gr.jpg

     

     


    The new Tequipment option...for those who want to see their "hidden" engine!


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    easy_rider911:
    a928:
    a928:

    ... the 997 will probably be the last real Porsche classic..also its much simpler car with much less electronics..that I dont need anyway..

    If Porsche messes up the 991 GT3 in the same way as the 991 ...


    .... you and some others here cannot accept that someone has a different viewpoint..thats all...

    Coming to the laptime issue, I havent driven really on NS..just for fun once..

    But I should stop from posting here....Im also registered in other forums and they are not the same at all in this respect there.

     
    Yes, please stop sharing your wisdom with us.

    Seriously, you obsess about 991 NoS lap times when you don't drive on the NoS yourself?

    You care about the 991 Carrera S lap times when you are planning to replace your used 997.1 GT3 with a used 997.2 GT3? How are the 991 NoS lap times relevant to what you are planning to do? It doesn't take a psychologist to realise that you are dismissing something that you are not planning to buy anyway just to make your own used car purchase decision feel good.

    In the process, you have succeeded in making people here ridicule you.

    If you really insist on coming back here, may I suggest you do so in about 10 years' time when you (may) have matured enough to have a sensible conversation here. In the meantime, like you said, you are registered on other forums.

     But by that time the 992 will be out and "the world will be over" again.

     

    As a side note, it doesn't look like it'd be too far a stretch to make the engine visible as on the 997. If they made some sort of system where the spoiler is apart of the engine cover that lifts, it could work.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Carlos from Spain:
    mateoche:

    Curious if anyone can illuminate PDCC (Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control) for me?  Is this the first time it's been available on the 911 and I'm assuming it's different or works in tandem with the PASM.

    And is it an option that one would pay extra for?

    Thanks!

     Indeed you will pay extra for it and its not cheap. Its the first time on a 911 but its the same sistem as in the Cayenne or Panamera, were the anti-roll bars are elctronically controlled instead of fixed, and therefore can adapt to different cirsumstances better, increasing stability/handling and confort.

     

    thanks for the info Carlo!  And again for posting among the best pics yet!!

    curious if you will be ordering PDCC yourself? 

    thank you


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

     Interesting special option for the 991 S (available from 03/2012). 

    Standard tyre size (rear) is 295 (20'). With this wheel: 305 (20'). 

    What do you guys think? I like this wheel... beside the price (on german market. In Portugal will be a bit more )

     131414379100320 wheel (245-35__305_30)_(03-2012).jpg


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Carrara:
    ADias:
    Carlos from Spain:
    Joost:

    Carlos,

    It is amazing how the 991 makes the 997.2 llok like a 993! Especially the section aft of the door.

     Also I think the rounded roof of the 997 helps too Smiley


    --

     

    It's not the rounded roof of the 997. It's the flattened 991 profile, that is why it's much closer to the Panamera. Someone I know calls the 991 the mini Panamera. :)

    The 991 may be a great car, but it's a major departure from the 911 DNA. Major! That is why now people say correctly the 997 is closer to a 993. 

     


    --

    _________________________________________________________________ 

    "Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.

     Not that major. The design DNA of a 911 is as follows: Strong broad shoulder, raised front wings, a sloping roofline, a dynamic stance, a tapered and low front end, a tachometer higher than anything else in the interior, and ignition on the left, rear seats, GT like comfort, efficiency, and spectacular performance.

    What's the 991 lacking from that list?

     

    If you have to ask... the soul of a 911 is not its body shape. It's its unique (some say quirky) driving dynamics.

    Many buy the 911 for its looks/panache and so on. The 991 will probably continue to offer that, even tough full of luxury accoutrements which do not belong there (e.g. consoles, doors, sunroofs). But I suspect (I'll confirm it when I drive it probably this October) that a lot of its soul is gone. I care, many do not, and perhaps you don't either. All is good.

    But nothing is lost. There are plenty of great 911s from '64 to 2012 for those of us who understand the 11 soul. :)

     


    --

    _________________________________________________________________ 

    "Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

     Every day there are more pages to this thread and it seems like we've all (or most of us) have come to the consensus that the 991 is another great looking and well engineered 911 that will be an amazing drive. 

    But for now going from the new pictures it just seems like the 991 is getting sexier and sexier every time I see it? Is it just me? 


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

     I have been looking at Kreso's brochures (thanks again) dated May 2011 and it seems these are not yet final, i.e. Porsche made some last minute changes to a few items:

    - The lettering on the back of the car on the press release pictures is "PORSCHE 911 Carrera" whilst in the brochures it reads "PORSCHE Carrera S";

    - Standard equipment: I believe having read somewhere in German that GPS, iPod connection and memory seats would be standard, whilst in the brochures this is not indicated.

    Has anyone else noticed other differences?

    Someone asked for the price of the PSE, it is in there under "Sportabgasanlage" and costs EUR 2.606,10 with 19% German VAT included.

     


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    The 991 will be an amazing car, the 991 Turbo or GT3 must compete against F458, and if the 991 S does 4.1 in 0-100km/h, the turbo or gt3 should be around 3 and 3.5 respectively....

     

    I have a 997.2 PDK, really beatifull car, and It will be my precious ride for a while, but I'm pretty sure I'll go crazy if I'm next to a 991....Smiley

     

    Keep posting guys!


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    JP66, thanks so much for these pictures.
    I growing to love the new 911, despite the awkward directionals and the mirrors in the "wrong" spot. The design seems to tie together pretty nicely. Can't wait! :-)


    --

    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    I assume you're just being ironic Smiley As you know, the photo is from page 16 of the 991 brochure in German that Kreso posted Smiley

     

     

    Yup, I was being ironic.  But from that angle it does kinda look like a family Merc, don't you think?

    I think it should have been either less bling (like the pre 996 and 997) - my preference, OR more bling, like a Lambo, or even an Aston Martin.  As it is, it's very nice, in a kind of posh SUV or saloon kind of way, but: Go big or go home...!


    --

    Isn't it time you got yourself a !waytag?   www.waytag.com


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    a928:
    Ferdie:
    a928:

    You know Im fully on your side..fully agree with you, the 997 will probably be the last real Porsche classic..also its much simpler car with much less electronics..that I dont need anyway..

    If Porsche messes up the 991 GT3 in the same way as the 991 ...that that was it for Porsche for us. Our family owns a whole collection..so far my 997 GT3 is the newest thing we have..


    Sorry mate,

    this is getting ridiculous. The 997 is the last Porsche classic? What is the heritage line from 901 to 993 for you [and why do so many people value the latest aircooled model for]? Each model since then has made a significant step forward, the 997´s return to traditional round headlights might be the only significant twist in recent history.

    As Carrara said, the 991 shares vital design references with all of its predecessors. Michael Maurer constantly referred about the so-called Porsche DNA and how, for example, the Panamera shares quite a bit of it with the company´s sportscars. I have commented on that subject further above, in case you missed it.

    People will get used to the graphical layout at the front, just as they have become accustomed to every other Porsche model before. The biggest issue for me is that a 991 with all vital options, including the ones benefitting the handling, features quite a significant pricetag. Apart from that, I am curious how much all of these systems might influence the driving impression.

    On a sidenote, what´s your laptime with the GT3 on the Nordschleife?

    Regarding the classic etc..you and some others here cannot accept that someone has a different viewpoint..thats all. You believe in different things than I do..thats good - isnt it? Luckily we are all not the same. Many years nobody predicted that 964 3.6 turbo - just an example - would become a classic..now it is. Prices have also increased seriously for this car. All this has nothing to with a 991 - I know..but if you look at how Porsche is today and how it was 5 years ago - its not the same anymore, from people/employees, company goals, visions, design etc..and most people also know this - at least the ones who really hae an affection for Porsche and not just buy a Porsche for cruising on Champs Elysees. In fact after the end of the 993 there has already been a significant change in the company..I know..but it was a change still in a good direction..
     

    To tell me a panamera has something in common with a Porsche DNA, I feel sorry for you now..you obviously have read too much Porsche marketing brochures. The panamera was a simple "business case" decision..nothing more and I have driven one..and yes it drives nice..but is it really different than M6, AMG, Maserati??..not really..these are also very similar cars..would I buy one? no, never because for that money I can more interesting (Porsche) cars..

    Coming to the laptime issue, I havent driven really on NS..just for fun once..but I do regular trackdays on Spa (clearly below 3:00min), other circuits..but not only with my GT3 (in fact this car is not my real track car)...I have driven also other cars at circuits..and dont just believe that Porsche can built cars with good "DNA".- and Im saying this as Porsche fanatic since my youth..my other favorite is the Gallardo SL - the main difference is however that Porsche offers more reliability.

    But I should stop from posting here....Im also registered in other forums and they are not the same at all in this respect there.

    take care and enjoy your self posting,

     I disagree:

    ad 1) The only way to find out if the 991 is a well done product is to drive it. Based on the infos available to date it is not possible to say that the 991 is not an improvement over the 997 Smiley

    ad 2) The Panamera is the best handling car in its class. You don't need to drive on a track to find this out - just entering or leaving an AB through a tight bend provides you with that kind of setup feed-back which makes your eyes shine compared to competing products.

    ad 3) Looking at the latest GT derivatives of the 997 and comparing these cars to more recent super-sportscars (458, McLaren etc.) indicates that Porsche engineers are indeed more capable to build high-performance cars... Even with an older platform these cars are very efficient. Also, they feel much better than competing cars Smiley


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    pmpsch:
    I think we should vote to ban a928. I mean it is completly unacceptable having a guy who disagrees with the rest of us who now form such a cohesive view.

     It is a quality of democratic systems to allow each individuum to express its own views Smiley


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    4trac:
    PS CA:

    I got this letter today from my local Porsche dealership:

     

    So based on recent P-USA posted prices, about $US 3000 increase for base and almost $5000 for S models... I expect this still amounts to the lowest 911 prices worldwide despite the increases.

     

    So that would be for the Carrera S in Swiss Francs , if I add about 8% sales tax :  CHF  82'500.-

    The current Carrera S base price is  : CHF 149'700 .-  !!!!!!!!!! SmileySmileySmiley

    Is there anything wrong ??????  No wonder people do not buy their cars in Switzerland anymore but buy imports from US and EU .  They better do something SIGNIFICANT over here , otherwise our local dealers are going to suffer much more then now 


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

     And going further with prices :

    In Germany, without tax : € 86'000.-   = CHF 98'100   ( on top of that we add 7.6 % tax ) 

    I don't know how they are going to handle the Swiss prices .

    But one would be stupid to buy the car in Switzerland, when they just cross the border to get in Germany and save  35 %  on a new car  !!!!!!

    And there are even businesses that take care of all the paper work for € 500.-

    Shipping is € 1.- per km  .

    And if you want it even cheaper , sending from the US + taxes , you just add about 11% on the purchasing price . But that 's slightly more of a hassle .


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    totally agree with Gnil and more and more EUimporters are popping up here - let's see how the market is doing once all the initial 991 orders were delivered


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    In South Africa, I'm about to pay R1,195,000 for my GTS. 

    That's EUR 115,000 - 10% more than the EUR105,000 German price, and

    GBP100,000 - 20% more 28% more than the UK price of GBP78,000.

    Currencies alone are all over the place at the moment - the Euro is poked and the Swiss Franc is incredibly strong.  You're lucky that you can go across the border - we can't!  Although our rand has never been so strong - to pay on 10% more than the European price is amazing.


    --

    Isn't it time you got yourself a !waytag?   www.waytag.com


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Carrara:

     a928, its really sad that we're losing a forum member because of a 991 discussion. Please don't leave Rennteam. My simple advice to you: Take a step back, if you don't like the car fine, but don't bi**ch and moan about how the 911's dead, and you keep bringing up questions that you have, hundreds upon hundreds of times. Obviously we don't know the answer so calm down and wait for Porsche to reveal more information. 

     

    Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    You guys talking about prices is making me depressed. Our 991 Carrera will cost $229,900 and C2S will be $263,100 before on road costs which adds another $15k or so. Bear in mind one Aussie dollar is more than one US dollar! Sigh.

    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    WAY:
    You guys talking about prices is making me depressed. Our 991 Carrera will cost $229,900 and C2S will be $263,100 before on road costs which adds another $15k or so. Bear in mind one Aussie dollar is more than one US dollar! Sigh.

     

    Ouch. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


     
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