Crown

Board: Ferrari Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Re: Ugliest cars of 2011 - California?

    Rossi:
    Pentium:

    the new 918... the future McLaren (above the MP4-12C)... the Zonda Smiley

    Well, I can only wish your dream came true and you take me for a Ring lap or two Smiley


    There's a much easier way: just ask Mike. Smiley
     

     I didn't even post in this thread Smiley

    To be on topic: The looks of the California is still debatable - let's just say I can stomach it Smiley


    Re: Ugliest cars of 2011 - California?

    Mike S:
    Rossi:
    Pentium:

    the new 918... the future McLaren (above the MP4-12C)... the Zonda Smiley

    Well, I can only wish your dream came true and you take me for a Ring lap or two Smiley


    There's a much easier way: just ask Mike. Smiley
     

     I didn't even post in this thread Smiley

    To be on topic: The looks of the California is still debatable - let's just say I can stomach it Smiley

     You can?  So when's it being delivered?  Smiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: Ugliest cars of 2011 - California?

    fritz:
    Mike S:
    Rossi:
    Pentium:

    the new 918... the future McLaren (above the MP4-12C)... the Zonda Smiley

    Well, I can only wish your dream came true and you take me for a Ring lap or two Smiley


    There's a much easier way: just ask Mike. Smiley
     

     I didn't even post in this thread Smiley

    To be on topic: The looks of the California is still debatable - let's just say I can stomach it Smiley

     You can?  So when's it being delivered?  Smiley

    Smiley I'm not buying anything more for at least a year. I have no more space even if I wanted to Smiley


    Re: Ugliest cars of 2011 - California?

    Mike S:
    fritz:
    Mike S:
    Rossi:
    Pentium:

    the new 918... the future McLaren (above the MP4-12C)... the Zonda Smiley

    Well, I can only wish your dream came true and you take me for a Ring lap or two Smiley


    There's a much easier way: just ask Mike. Smiley
     

     I didn't even post in this thread Smiley

    To be on topic: The looks of the California is still debatable - let's just say I can stomach it Smiley

     You can?  So when's it being delivered?  Smiley

    Smiley I'm not buying anything more for at least a year. I have no more space even if I wanted to Smiley


    Well, we all believe you on this one. 918, Zonda and MB4-12C all won't be delivered until next year the earliest. Smiley
     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Ugliest cars of 2011 - California?

    SmileySmiley


    Re: Ugliest cars of 2011 - California?

    It still seems like most people completely miss the point of the California. It's not designed to be a car that ignites passion in young males or those looking for a "look at me" type of car   It's aimed at a totally different audience looking for something more restrained.

    I was speaking to a guy from the main central London Ferrari dealership at the barbeque I went to on Sunday and he told me his dealership cannot get a large enough allocation of the California and that it's attracting a whole new group of buyers who would never have considered a Ferrari before. He said that most people in the target market aren't car "enthusiasts" in the main so don't read car magazines or car related websites and didn't even know about this model. Most of his buyers are men who are switching out of Bentleys, Aston DB9s and Merc SL's. He said  the biggest frustration he has is that the motoring press and websites initially labelled the car as being "soft" and aimed at women and this tag has stuck. The driving experience however bears little relation to this. It would be very easy for Ferrari to turn this car into a very capable sports car with carefully chosen mod's to the suspension but just like Porsche protecting the 911 by restricting the Cayman it seems that Ferrari are doing the same with the California and 458.

    It's amazing how lowering the car slightly and adding 599 GTO style wheels changes the look (pics courtesy of Fchat).

    13027215887871.JPG

    13027216060432.JPG13027216175423.JPG13027216283174.JPG13027216379845.JPG

     

     


    Re: Ugliest cars of 2011 - California?

    If I squint a little when I look at those photographs so that I don't see the Ferrari badges and shield I see a great Maserati. 

    And I mean that only in a positive way.


    --

    fritz


    Re: Ugliest cars of 2011 - California?

    ISUK:

     It would be very easy for Ferrari to turn this car into a very capable sports car with carefully chosen mod's to the suspension but just like Porsche protecting the 911 by restricting the Cayman it seems that Ferrari are doing the same with the California and 458.

     

     

     

    The difference is that the 458 has the superior mechanical layout, unlike the 911 compared to the Cayman. Smiley The other points of course are valid and the California is a comfortable GT car and not a pure supersports car like the focused 458. And by all means the Cali is far from ugly; actually it is elegant and attractive in its own right.

     

    I read yesterday on Autocar that the California amounted for a stuggering 46% of total Ferrari sales in 2010! Smiley Here's the link to that: http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/256480/


    --
    FERRARI RULES!!!

    Re: Ugliest cars of 2011 - California?

    The Cali is effectively front, mid-engined so is an ideal layout for a performance car  Just look at it's weight distribution front/rear and it's placement within the wheelbase.

    The sales numbers shouldn't really come as a shock though as 458 production didn't really get into full swing until May last year and both the 599 and 612 were almost flat lining in sales terms due to the age of each model.


    Re: Ugliest cars of 2011 - California?

    ISUK:

    The Cali is effectively front, mid-engined so is an ideal layout for a performance car  Just look at it's weight distribution front/rear and it's placement within the wheelbase.

     

    It might still be a good layout but theoretically speaking, the best layout is the one that the F1 cars also use. Smiley


    --
    FERRARI RULES!!!

    Re: Ugliest cars of 2011 - California?

    fritz:

    If I squint a little when I look at those photographs so that I don't see the Ferrari badges and shield I see a great Maserati. 

    And I mean that only in a positive way.

     

    You must be squinting a lot fritz Smiley

    Here is the still born Maserati spyder that spawned the Cali. Having spoken to an engineer at the factory involved in the Cali programme I can report that they get quite passionate about the fact that they completely re-engineered the Maserati to the level where they said it was almost unrecognisable from the starting point. The engine, gearbox, braking system and suspension were all far more advanced units than Maserati were intending to use for example.

    1302724091166Hard top 2.JPG

    Hard top 1.JPGHard top 3.JPG

     


    Re: Ugliest cars of 2011 - California?

     Iain, a barbecue in London in April? Were you wearing winter gear? Who plans a barbecue in April in England?  

    My issue with the California is it should be badged a Maserati. The California doesn't belong in the Ferrari product line. They are using the Ferrari badge to sell the car.

    Also, Ferrari had every intention to attract women to the California. It was their target market. The few California's I have seen in La Jolla were driven by women.

     


    --

     


    Re: Ugliest cars of 2011 - California?

    Nick,

    You seem to be firmly in the "I want a Ferrari to be a mid engined, shouty expression of wealth and nothing less will do" camp. You also don't think the FF has a place in the line up. Have you ever looked at the type of cars that were produced up until the mid engined era of the 308 onwards took over? There was life at Ferrari before Thomas Magnum and Sonny Crockett Out of interest what exactly do you think does belong in the line up....... the 458 (in spider form only of course), a modern day reincarnation of the Testarossa/512TR perhaps and an Enzo replacement? No doubt you didn't think the 550/575 series should have been in the mix either.

    The whole Maserati connection with the Cali is tiresome. The car would have been nothing like as polished as it is had Modena produced it and not Maranello. The Gran Turismo is a beautiful car but having owned two I can certanly vouch that dynamically it doesn't come close to the California. Your suggestion that the Ferrari badge sells the car is somewhat amusing. Most people with little interest/knowledge of cars (i.e. the majority of the public) have little idea that the Maserati is significantly cheaper than the Ferrari when you ask them so if wishing to make a badge statement many would simply buy the GranTurismo and pocket the substantial change.


    Re: Ugliest cars of 2011 - California?

    Iain, it seems to me that I am(as you are) in minority since IMHO Cali is a great car. Only downside for me is that Cali is way too soft with both suspension options-specially when you drive it hard on twisty mountain road.


    Re: Ugliest cars of 2011 - California?

    To my eyes the California is the best looking Ferrari out of the current range, together with the 599.

    Also it is the only one that makes real sense as an automobile (as opposed to a trophy)  irrespective of someone's cash position.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ugliest cars of 2011 - California?

    Iain, people with the money to buy a California/Maserati are well aware of the differences between the two brands. They know Ferrari has a higher callingSmiley and thus will opt for the brand even though they will pay a premium for it.

    You are correct that I did not think the 550/575 should have been part of the Ferrari model range. More importantly, I do not believe there should be a model below the 458. The 458 represents the culmination of F1 racing experience and that is what a Ferrari should be.  


    --

     


    Re: Ugliest cars of 2011 - California?

    Kreso,

    The suspension is the one weak point of the car for really spirited driving. It allows too much body roll IMHO but could be fixed quite easily if Ferrari got BWI back in to recalibrate the Magneride system. I'd love them to offer an HGTC variant but thus far there are no plans to I'm told. I guess they will most likely do something next year as the car edges towards the end of it's first life cycle.

    For me the standard passive damper system works much better than the optional Magneride as it's much more predictable. Magneride is intially good in sport mode but secondary bumps cause it to get caught caught out and hop a bit.

     


    Re: Ugliest cars of 2011 - California?

    Nick,

    The replacement Enzo is the culmination of the F1 racing experience. I disagree on the brand perception between Ferrari and Maserati though. You are looking at it through the eyes of an enthusiast or a rich Californian Outside of that bubble a lot of people simply don't know the difference.


    Re: Ugliest cars of 2011 - California?

    ISUK:

    Nick,

    The replacement Enzo is the culmination of the F1 racing experience.

     

    Speaking of which... any news on that project?  Smiley 


    --
    FERRARI RULES!!!

    Re: Ugliest cars of 2011 - California?

    No news as yet. Details of both it and the 599 replacement are closely guarded secrets at present.


    Re: Ugliest cars of 2011 - California?

     Oh well, it was worth the try. Cheers Iain!


    --
    FERRARI RULES!!!

    Re: Ugliest cars of 2011 - California?

    ISUK:

    No news as yet. Details of both it and the 599 replacement are closely guarded secrets at present.


    458 Spider?

    Also, I've been hearing stuff about a challenge grill for the 458 and a GTO grill for the Cali.
     


    Re: Ugliest cars of 2011 - California?

    ISUK:

    Nick,

    The replacement Enzo is the culmination of the F1 racing experience. I disagree on the brand perception between Ferrari and Maserati though. You are looking at it through the eyes of an enthusiast or a rich Californian Outside of that bubble a lot of people simply don't know the difference.


    Especially in the target group they are going for.

    Re: Ugliest cars of 2011 - California?

    koko:
    ISUK:

    No news as yet. Details of both it and the 599 replacement are closely guarded secrets at present.


    458 Spider?

    Also, I've been hearing stuff about a challenge grill for the 458 and a GTO grill for the Cali.
     

     

    I'm still being told that the 458 spider is definately a folding hardtop and the launch should be in September. I was asked for my deposit around a month ago as Ferrari Northern Europe had instructed dealers to take the initial wave of deposits in.

    I can help out with the GTO grill for the Cali Smiley but have not had anything on the Challenge grill for the 458 as yet.

    GTO grille description.JPG


    Re: Ugliest cars of 2011 - California?

    I love the Cali, especially the pics of that silver one Iain posted


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: Ugliest cars of 2011 - California?

    Silver, although not a typical Ferrari colour shouldn't be excluded at all.

    I think this bicolore  Italia looks great too  See how the contours are highlighted by the play of light.1302850555195grigio bicolore.png1302850658429grigio bicolore2.png


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ugliest cars of 2011 - California?

    KresoF1:

    Iain, it seems to me that I am(as you are) in minority since IMHO Cali is a great car. Only downside for me is that Cali is way too soft with both suspension options-specially when you drive it hard on twisty mountain road.

     I agree it does what it is supposed to do very well. The steering is too light as far as I am concerned as well. Demand and residuals have been remarkably strong to date - which has surprised many people (including the dealers).


    Re: Ugliest cars of 2011 - California?

    Great colour comboSmiley 


     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part I) Thread Closed 9/24/20 12:47 AM
    watt
    586577 2849
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 12/30/20 9:03 AM
    rhino
     
     
     
     
     
    359349 1279
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020) 4/10/21 2:32 PM
    Joost
    87138 1085
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 5/12/21 3:30 PM
    WhoopsyM
    45565 344
    Porsche Sticky ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera 4S 3/3/21 10:57 PM
    Wonderbar
    35715 336
    Porsche Sticky Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review 10/19/20 6:12 PM
    Leawood911
    33583 380
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 5/11/21 3:34 PM
    watt
    17035 344
    Porsche Sticky Porsche extends the Taycan model range (Taycan 2WD) 2/1/21 12:42 PM
    Leawood911
    4750 29
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017) 7/27/20 2:13 AM
    DJM48
    566888 5257
    Porsche Cayman GT4 5/4/21 4:46 PM
    Topspeed
    408670 3586
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 4/25/21 4:04 PM
    Topspeed
    359038 3916
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 4/29/21 7:24 AM
    GnilM
    356642 3494
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 4/28/21 12:26 PM
    W8MM
    318365 3252
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 12/8/20 7:51 PM
    DJM48
    310353 2646
    Porsche OFFICIAL: The new Porsche 992 – a design icon and high-tech sports car 2/28/21 8:05 PM
    Topspeed
    219326 1542
    Porsche Tesla Roadster 9/23/20 8:22 PM
    bluelines
    197513 4279
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016) 2/11/21 9:22 AM
    Itsme
    161457 1379
    Others Alfa Romeo 4C 9/23/20 10:22 AM
    RCA
    138368 792
    Porsche 992 GT3 5/18/21 11:19 PM
    xpto
    123329 2376
    Lambo Lamborghini Huracan and variants 4/9/21 4:32 PM
    Topspeed
    107014 1225
    McLaren F1 2/25/21 11:33 AM
    RCA
    77421 207
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 5/18/21 6:01 PM
    WhoopsyM
    71584 1164
    AMG AMG GT R 11/19/20 11:47 PM
    Topspeed
    65244 819
    Lambo Aventador and SV 4/20/21 3:21 PM
    CGX car nut
    64306 683
    Porsche 991 Speedster 9/3/20 4:29 PM
    Topspeed
    57754 878
    Porsche Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan 11/23/20 6:10 PM
    Topspeed
    43594 596
    Others Bugatti Chiron 4/12/21 3:42 PM
    RCA
    36782 476
    Porsche Olive 991.2 GT3 Clubsport 1/1/21 7:58 PM
    throt
    34278 615
    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 5/19/21 12:10 AM
    rhino
    31555 486
    BMW M BMW M2 Rumors 3/21/21 5:01 PM
    Topspeed
    28878 385
    272 items found, displaying 1 to 30.