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    Re: Cleaning pointers

    69bossnine:

    All of Paul's advice makes good sense, although I still stand by my notion of getting the wheels and wheelhouses and underneath areas done FIRST, because they are so time-consuming (it takes me longer to properly clean all those areas than it does the car-proper).... And then start again with all fresh stuff to wash the rest of the car. It simply "flows" better, you don't have to constantly stop and drench the car to keep it from air-drying and spotting, and you feel less rushed getting all of the tough corners on the wheels and calipers..

    Just because objects can be replaced, that has nothing to do with pride of ownership, upkeep, and good care. Just because I can buy another house, doesn't mean I allow my lawn to grow to my knees between mows. My grandfather would punch me from his grave.

    Lastly, it'd take dozens and dozens of aggressive randon-orbital polishing jobs to ever knock through the factory clearcoat. That said, it's not always necessary if you keep on-top of your finish by hand and don't inflict your own damage. Machine jobs are only needed when they're needed, it goes back to the premise of not using a sledgehammer on thumb-tacks.

    Clear coat can be knocked through very quickly by the someone using a product/pad that is to aggressive, or not using an orbital polisher correctly. I have seen paint struck through on a few cars.....

    I do however agree with everything else you say, I always wash the wheels before the rest of the car, and use a different sponge and fresh water for the car itself.


    Re: Cleaning pointers

    my washing routine is as follows:

    Snow foam car: let it dwell for 5 mins while i sort my wheel bucket out totally (seperate bucket from body buckets)

    Rinse car : using pressure washer being carefull not to get too close

    Clean wheels: Spray some Billberry wheel cleaner (citrus safe cleaner) through a foaming head so it clings on better, using a swissvax  style brush i aggitate the outer wheel and use an ez-detail  wheel brush for inner, using an old micro filbre mit and vilken wheel arch brush to clean the arches and rinse

    my wheels are taken off every 4 months to clean behind and wax calipers and dress wheel arches

    Wash Car: start by re-rinsing the car  to get the panels wet again, use Zymol clear and a Meguires microfibre mit  2 buckets  ( not anything that washes the wheels) with grit guards , wash a panel and rinse it,  for non dried soap streaks

    making sure each panel is still  wet before washing, and never wash in direct sunlight

    the usual top to bottom, except windscreen as this collects a lot of grit at the bottom and tend to wash last

    Drying Car: rinse car with pressure washer on a lower setting, then using just a hose i sheet off most the water ready for drying use a plush drying towel, patt the car dry (not drag or wipe)

    if i was waxing id use the garden blower to get all the water out the cracks!

    dry wheels with soft microfibre (old ones i dont use on paint)

    few things i do to keep on top are rinse the car with a hose regular to avoid bonded contaminants (tree sab bird crap) as the car lives outside, and also straight away after a brisk drive just to remove any flies from the front, so then there is no need for claying or harsh bug removers(let the car cool first though :-))

    Bilt hamber do a great pre wash water base degreaser: sufex HD which you can dilute right down to 50:1 whcih removes bugs very easy and doesnt effect your wax

    also i wash my mit  straight away to remove any shampoo that my harden on it, they last a bit longer that way

    my car looks like this excuse the door that is slightly open

    car_clean.jpg

     

     


    --
    997.2 C2S Guards Red

    Re: Cleaning pointers

    cdixon:
    Clear coat can be knocked through very quickly by the someone using a product/pad that is to aggressive, or not using an orbital polisher correctly. I have seen paint struck through on a few cars.....

    I do however agree with everything else you say, I always wash the wheels before the rest of the car, and use a different sponge and fresh water for the car itself.

    Well, yeah, but just because some gorilla doesn't know what he's doing with his orbital, is not a valid reason to fear or avoid the orbital.

    Give me a boutique micro-fiber and a bottle of $100 wax, and I'll show you how to scratch the piss out of a paint job from pure physical idiocy, LOL!!
     

    This last car-wash step-by-step sounds awefully-involved to arrive at a common-goal, safely clean...

    Also, just "patting" the car dry may look fine on a red car, but in certain light conditions, that would look like a disaster with black. And I'm not sure it's a "necessary" concern, as drying a car does not need to result in towel-scratches.

    I'm admittedly loopy when it comes to a streak/spot-free finish, I finish eash wash crawling around the car on my knees, and from all other aspects, hunting for the slightest remnant or evidence of water or drying. I could never go "pat pat pat" and walk away. And when you're drying with good safe towels, using gentle technique, scratches/swirls just don't happen. Those only happen when the wrong towels are applied, or overt-pressure is applied, or something real nasty gets into the towel.


    --
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    Re: Cleaning pointers

    its they way i like to do it...and if you use zymol field glaze after wards this takes care of any small water spots, as i said if you sheet the water off you have just a few beads left to dry!!!

    so only need to lay a towel on and pat the last few bits dry!

    i also use the same process on dark colours, and ive never had problems! previous car was black , but take your point that it can leave marks and are very obvious on black cars

    im probably as bad as you when it comes to marks on a car....

    and regarding rotary polishing, modern porsche probably has if healthy a good 100um of paint thickness giving you around 25 - microns of clear if that

    light swirls around 1-2 microns to remove! so loads of paint really!

    i argree with  69bossnine that it actually takes alot to burn though , when learning rotary i bought a scrap bonnet to learn on, and use now and again to text polishes etc and its still not anyhwere near going though, this is where a depth guage comes in handy sometimes you dont know the complete history of a car and what has been done previously

    funny vid here to show you how much it takes to go through think they used some G3 in the end LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y8vHRwiTgY,

     

     


    --
    997.2 C2S Guards Red

    Re: Cleaning pointers

    Johnmonkey:

    its they way i like to do it...and if you use zymol field glaze after wards this takes care of any small water spots, as i said if you sheet the water off you have just a few beads left to dry!!!

    so only need to lay a towel on and pat the last few bits dry!

    i also use the same process on dark colours, and ive never had problems! previous car was black , but take your point that it can leave marks and are very obvious on black cars

    im probably as bad as you when it comes to marks on a car....

    and regarding rotary polishing, modern porsche probably has if healthy a good 100um of paint thickness giving you around 25 - microns of clear if that

    light swirls around 1-2 microns to remove! so loads of paint really!

    i argree with  69bossnine that it actually takes alot to burn though , when learning rotary i bought a scrap bonnet to learn on, and use now and again to text polishes etc and its still not anyhwere near going though, this is where a depth guage comes in handy sometimes you dont know the complete history of a car and what has been done previously

    funny vid here to show you how much it takes to go through think they used some G3 in the end LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y8vHRwiTgY,

     

     

     

    If you have a paint depth gauge stick it on the plastic bumpers.... Mine read 55 microns from the factory, so agree that you can use a rotary on the metal, but be careful on the plastic. 

    This was also confirmed with Paul's gauges 


    Re: Cleaning pointers

    Johnmonkey:

    and if you use zymol field glaze after wards this takes care of any small water spots,  


    Whoops, missed that part, point well-taken, that would finish it off nicely...

    One point I'll make that I made a couple years back, regarding leaf-blowers.... Make sure that the nozzle attaches the blower in a manner that is fool-proof and secure!!!

    I had a cheap-ish blower that, while I was blow-drying my old 993, decided to EJECT the air-horn, shooting it toward the door of the car like a spear from a spear-gun..

    Talk about one of those slow-motion "oooohhhhhh-shhhhhiiiiiiitttttttt" moments... Amazingly it didn't dent the door, and I managed to machine-out the scratches without ill-effect. I was lucky.

    The following blower I purchased was chosen with a far-closer eye toward engineering Smiley


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    If you've got an issue, here's a tissue...

    Re: Cleaning pointers

     there is no  primer though on plastics is there which would account for a low reading? i may be wrong though, i don't have a £1500 posi 200  depth gauge able to read plastics most can only read  metal 

    you also have to be careful on plastics due to heat build up as the plastics can get warped they don't react the same as metal panels, 


    --
    997.2 C2S Guards Red

    Re: Cleaning pointers

     yes sorry i didn't add that in either..it had taken me ages just to re cap what i actually do as i dont tend to think about it

    the power of the rotary

    this is a mini i did for a friend recently,  i didnt hit it with any heavy compound just a light compound followed by a finishing pad and polish,  which was enough to taken 90% of the swirls out, talk about a grey car!! 

    excuse the dust on the 50/50s

    IMG_3170.jpg

    IMG_3172.jpg

    looking much better now

    IMG_3226.jpg

    and the extent of the detail

    IMG_3158.jpg


    --
    997.2 C2S Guards Red

    Re: Cleaning pointers

     FWIW, Just for fun

    Go get a sheet of plexiglass.

    Peel off protective plastic

    Rub with clean towel or with your hand

    Profound-looking scratches will result which will blow your mind.

    Methinks that's the same thing with our acrylic clear coats.

    _Touch_ them and they scratch.

    Unless they are ceramic-based like Ferrari (?).

    (correct me if I'm wrong, thanks)

     


    --
    2007 997 Turbo

    Re: Cleaning pointers

    Johnmonkey:

     there is no  primer though on plastics is there which would account for a low reading? i may be wrong though, i don't have a £1500 posi 200  depth gauge able to read plastics most can only read  metal 

    you also have to be careful on plastics due to heat build up as the plastics can get warped they don't react the same as metal panels, 

     The reading was taken with my Posi 200. The metal generally gives me 100 + readings.


    Re: Cleaning pointers

     you can also do the cd test!!!! wipe the back of a blank cd and see if it marks!, good test for microfibres to see if they are soft enough, 

     Posi 200's  are great a must for a pro detailer they also do carbon fiber if im not mistaken?

     


    --
    997.2 C2S Guards Red


    Re: Cleaning pointers

    That's all fine and dandy, but also very apples-to-porkchops, taking a huge leap from unscientific and unrelated exercise, to exaggerated conclusion....

    Your clearcoat is not plastic or plexiglass.

    "Unwrap a stick of butter and wipe it with a clean towel , and the results will blow your mind"!


    --
    If you've got an issue, here's a tissue...

    Re: Cleaning pointers

    My tip,,do not wash in sun light and wash with soft water,,,,if its hard, get a water softener== http://www.kinetico.co.uk


    --
     

    throt

    "I didn't do it"


    Re: Cleaning pointers

    69bossnine:

     

    Your clearcoat is not plastic or plexiglass.

     

     

    Oh Great 69Bossnine!  Please tell us, we implore thee:  what is the hardness of acrylic sheet (plexiglass) vs. whatever the frick  our clear coat paint is made of? We need experiential or scientific facts here, NOT thought experiments. Smiley

    Lets see, acrylic, polyurethane, epoxy..., what's our paint made of an what's the clear coat made of? None of these I mention are very hard coatings.

    If you actually TRY it (as I fkkn have) you may see (as I have), in the right light, that your pristine paint (for example on my fugly TT wing) scratches just as freekin' easily as a piece of pristine virgin plexiglass (which I was working with). It's incredible. 

    Enjoy!

     


    --
    2007 997 Turbo


    Re: Cleaning pointers

    No need to get so chippy...

     

    All my cars sit underneath 160,000 sq feet of flourescent bulbs, and MAN does it show every sin, every slightest fathomable cloudiness, amplified. It's almost demoralizing. We do restoration work here, not working on daily-drivers, so lighting is of extreme importance.

    Yes, you can scratch paint with a towel (any towel, microfibre, no matter how soft or what the fibers are) with enough pressure, we don't need to play with a square of plexiglass to learn that obvious lesson. In fact, different automotive paints are softer than others. I find that anything I've got painted in Sikkens dual-stage I've REALLY gotta be careful with. BASF, Dupont and modern factory finishes, not so much...

    Modern clearcoats, there's alot of chemistry and diversity going on there, so rubbing on plexiglass is really just speculation, that was all I was really saying. I'm not a chemist.

    But no need to get mean, I just didn't see the relavence. Somehow, despite myself, I keep a pretty perpetually-sparkly car with basic care.


    --
    If you've got an issue, here's a tissue...


    Re: Cleaning pointers

    69bossnine:

    No need to get so chippy...

     \ 

     Awwww sheeet! Sorry Buddy. I _knew_ I should have added some reassuring smillies as I was walking away from the send button but I couldn't turn back to do so. 

    Anyway, the thing that kills me is how _soft_ this paint is that we have. I literally was experimenting _making_ scratches on my TT wing alongside samples of Lexan and plexiglass. The Lexan is even SOFTER than the plexiglass. Porsche clear coat is depressingly similar scratch resistance-wise from this amateur's POV. Polystyrene is ridiculously soft, not even in contention here. I dunno. 

    I wonder what that *ceramic* clear coat is all about but too bizzy/lazy to find out..

     

     


    --
    2007 997 Turbo


    Re: Cleaning pointers

    Well, if its any consolation, the easier a finish is to scratch, the easier it is to polish the scratch out.... It works both ways.


    --
    If you've got an issue, here's a tissue...

     
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