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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    KMM:

    Again, it looks that there will be a large gap between the production model and the show car. This is looking more like a smaller Panamera.

     

    In a way...yes. Frontlights will be different though, same goes to interior.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    RC:
    KMM:

    Again, it looks that there will be a large gap between the production model and the show car. This is looking more like a smaller Panamera.

     

    In a way...yes. Frontlights will be different though, same goes to interior.

    Doors, front fenders and roofline will be different too...my guess it will look significantly different from the concept car...


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    And the price will be different, basically all that’s left are the underwhelming specs...


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    I think it sounds nice for an EV at least. smiley

    Everything else, I am disappointed.  


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Porsche specs never blow anyone's mind ever. But they seems to always overachieve, look no farther than the 918.

    All I know is, this thing will run rings around a Tesla without breaking a sweat. 

    On paper Tesla have much more HP but it simply doesn't handle.

    A Dodge Hellcat has way more HP than a GT3, but a GT3 will likely lapped a Hellcat at the Ring within 3 laps. 


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Concur with the assessment that Porsche is always the specification underdog compared to its peers; however, it typically over-performs well beyond those specifications.  The Taycan is purported to have a two-speed transmission to allow for efficient high speed performance so this means, if true, that the first gear will be set for explosive acceleration.  I don't think that Porsche will try to directly compete with Tesla on matching its acceleration times as it is prudent to have the braking system outperform acceleration.  The braking system of a typical ICE vehicle is four times the horsepower rating of the car's engine.  This is help mitigate overdriving the vehicle beyond its braking capabilities.  Tesla, on the other hand, does not adhere to this format.  

    It will also be interesting to determine how Porsche addresses regeneration since this function tends to destabilize a vehicle with a heavily loaded suspension, such as on the track.  I'm sure that the new Porsche Taycan will pleasantly surprise a number of individuals with is sparkling performance.  


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Whoopsy:

    Porsche specs never blow anyone's mind ever. But they seems to always overachieve, look no farther than the 918.

    All I know is, this thing will run rings around a Tesla without breaking a sweat. 

    On paper Tesla have much more HP but it simply doesn't handle.

    A Dodge Hellcat has way more HP than a GT3, but a GT3 will likely lapped a Hellcat at the Ring within 3 laps. 

    Well, handling is not that bad when driving on the Autobahn, but anything close to twisty is a like driving a tank. Went from Munich to Stuttgart today (which is a wonderful autobahn for driving fast) at 200 km/h+ in the P100D and after 100km power output was limited to 200KW (compared to 400KW), which still allows for a reasonable fast ride at 180 km/h, but acceleration at high speeds is very limited. I'm sure that Porsche will come up with a better solution. Also saw the first so called "hyper charger", that can charge at 300KW. 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Whoopsy:

    A Dodge Hellcat has way more HP than a GT3, but a GT3 will likely lapped a Hellcat at the Ring within 3 laps. 

    We will never know, neither the Hellcat nor the Tesla can do 3 consecutive Ring laps to find out smiley

    You can't compare paper specs, there is so much more that is not represented there, Tesla has nothing that compares with a Taycan, they are two different concepts.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Whoopsy:

    Porsche specs never blow anyone's mind ever. But they seems to always overachieve, look no farther than the 918.

    All I know is, this thing will run rings around a Tesla without breaking a sweat. 

    On paper Tesla have much more HP but it simply doesn't handle.

    A Dodge Hellcat has way more HP than a GT3, but a GT3 will likely lapped a Hellcat at the Ring within 3 laps. 

    Except these are mass market non sport cars... very few care how they actually handle as long as they are good enough. Else no one would buy SUVs over sedans.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    CGX car nut:

    Concur with the assessment that Porsche is always the specification underdog compared to its peers; however, it typically over-performs well beyond those specifications.  The Taycan is purported to have a two-speed transmission to allow for efficient high speed performance so this means, if true, that the first gear will be set for explosive acceleration.  I don't think that Porsche will try to directly compete with Tesla on matching its acceleration times as it is prudent to have the braking system outperform acceleration.  The braking system of a typical ICE vehicle is four times the horsepower rating of the car's engine.  This is help mitigate overdriving the vehicle beyond its braking capabilities.  Tesla, on the other hand, does not adhere to this format.  

    It will also be interesting to determine how Porsche addresses regeneration since this function tends to destabilize a vehicle with a heavily loaded suspension, such as on the track.  I'm sure that the new Porsche Taycan will pleasantly surprise a number of individuals with is sparkling performance.  

     

    And Porsche had great knowledge for that also, they are the best in the industry again.

    They spent more time tuning the 918 regen system than any part of the whole car. They also learn a great deal with the 919 racing program. 


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:
    Whoopsy:

    Porsche specs never blow anyone's mind ever. But they seems to always overachieve, look no farther than the 918.

    All I know is, this thing will run rings around a Tesla without breaking a sweat. 

    On paper Tesla have much more HP but it simply doesn't handle.

    A Dodge Hellcat has way more HP than a GT3, but a GT3 will likely lapped a Hellcat at the Ring within 3 laps. 

    Except these are mass market non sport cars... very few care how they actually handle as long as they are good enough. Else no one would buy SUVs over sedans.

     

    I think a lot of Americans would argue the Hellcat IS a sport car, as it runs great 1/4 straight line acceleration, like Tesla.


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Hellcat is an amazing toy, fun, wild but no sportscar. My GT500 was no sportscar, it was a pony car, muscle car, whatever but no sportscar.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Problem is that mostly Tesla fans don't care about handling, and don't even follow motor media in search of reviews, but "tech" and gadgets websites, which usually write crap about cars, because they don't have the knowledge and the whole picture of how an sportscar should handle


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Why is that a problem?

    BTW Der Spiegel just had a rave review about the model 3...


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    It’s no Tesla S killer... yet:

     

    https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/porsche-taycan-first-ride/#ftag=CAD590a51e


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:

    Why is that a problem?

    BTW Der Spiegel just had a rave review about the model 3...

    Der Spiegel had a rave review about socialism... Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Apparently yesterday they were filming TV ad for the Taycan in Lanzarote, and someone who saw it live said it looked spectacular in person, very sporty and modern, much better than a Panamera for example he said...


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Carlos from Spain:

    Apparently yesterday they were filming TV ad for the Taycan in Lanzarote, and someone who saw it live said it looked spectacular in person, very sporty and modern, much better than a Panamera for example he said...

    The Taycan looks "lighter", the Panamera still has that "I'm a Mercedes S class from Porsche" kind of vibe. Smiley

    I am pretty sure the Taycan will be a success in the beginning but I'm not sure it is the car some people were waiting for. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    By "some", you mean the hardcore petrolheads from here, or the usual Tesla S buyer? Or just talking about the design in comparison with the Mission E prototype?


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    It sounded good because it had sport exhaust. 👌

    but seriously - if the Tesla cornered well it would be catching people out with he acceleration it provides to otherwise crappy drivers (on average). Porsche handles this with extended break in periods. These are as much for the driver as the car. 

    To assume a Tesla can’t be made to Corner is interesting. Actually a little foolish. 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Enzo II:

    By "some", you mean the hardcore petrolheads from here, or the usual Tesla S buyer? Or just talking about the design in comparison with the Mission E prototype?

    Design and performance... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Autocar and the Taycan testing protocol.  https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/2019-porsche-taycan-new-official-pics-and-details


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Porsche will do it right, it is their first of many EV models and much is at stake.

    More importantly it can do 10 hard accelerations in a row without fading (when most people havent even used a launch control in their car once, personally I have never done so in any car 😂).


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Doing a launch control is not the only time you accelerate, you can stress acceleration just as hard and repetitively in a twisty road going from one city to another like schmoell mentioned going from Munich to Stuttgart, or in an open highway drive, etc. You can expect to be different on the Taycan if it carries de Porsche DNA over.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    RC:
    Enzo II:

    By "some", you mean the hardcore petrolheads from here, or the usual Tesla S buyer? Or just talking about the design in comparison with the Mission E prototype?

    Design and performance... Smiley

    Design we all knew...performance...I think we would be rally disapointed then


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Carlos from Spain:

    Doing a launch control is not the only time you accelerate, you can stress acceleration just as hard and repetitively in a twisty road going from one city to another like schmoell mentioned going from Munich to Stuttgart, or in an open highway drive, etc. You can expect to be different on the Taycan if it carries de Porsche DNA over.

    The problem is: Elon Musk is a show-off and so are his products. Meaning: The Tesla S P100D is basically unbeatable from 0-60 mph, especially in the first run. Porsche shouldn't be stupid: They should tweak the software in a way that the Taycan top version does 0-60 mph extremely well for the first two or three tries and they can dial it back a notch (it doesn't matter if the Taycan does 0-60 kph half a second slower after the first three runs) because in the end, the numbers count. The Taycan needs to be a clear 0-60 monster, this is what people expect from Porsche.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    RC:
    Carlos from Spain:

    Doing a launch control is not the only time you accelerate, you can stress acceleration just as hard and repetitively in a twisty road going from one city to another like schmoell mentioned going from Munich to Stuttgart, or in an open highway drive, etc. You can expect to be different on the Taycan if it carries de Porsche DNA over.

    The problem is: Elon Musk is a show-off and so are his products. Meaning: The Tesla S P100D is basically unbeatable from 0-60 mph, especially in the first run. Porsche shouldn't be stupid: They should tweak the software in a way that the Taycan top version does 0-60 mph extremely well for the first two or three tries and they can dial it back a notch (it doesn't matter if the Taycan does 0-60 kph half a second slower after the first three runs) because in the end, the numbers count. The Taycan needs to be a clear 0-60 monster, this is what people expect from Porsche.

    Recall that the Taycan utilizes a two-speed transmission to optimize acceleration and top speed.  Tesla does not.  https://youtu.be/92RCVbOzoXc


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    That’s because Tesla are not made to drive faster than 150kph for extended runs, no need for the 2 speed transmission, it just adds weight and complexity. Batteries are just too small to drive fast for long periods of time, Porsche or Tesla...


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Second guessing or just being smarter than Porsche Engineering?   Contrary to your belief, Porsche has amassed amazing skill and knowledge in this area that led to the 918 and the highly successful 919.  


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    CGX car nut:

    Second guessing or just being smarter than Porsche Engineering?   Contrary to your belief, Porsche has amassed amazing skill and knowledge in this area that led to the 918 and the highly successful 919.  

    You wouldn't believe how much money VW Group is currently pumping into EV development. Smiley I wouldn't be surprised if they become a world(!) market leader by the middle of the next decade. This investment will pay off if people are going to buy these cars. I am still skeptical though, I think many countries aren't ready for a "mass electrification"...yet.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


     
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