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    Re: 991 GTS

    dertub:

    That last 918 sure looks darker than Carmine red maybe? I love it.

     

    Maybe Arena Red?  Carmona Red?


    --

     

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

     


    Re: 991 GTS

    Wonderbar:

    In the U.S., normal dealer discount off of MSRP is 6-8% without any hard bargaining.  Real deals come at the end of the facelift cycle.  Last year's new Cayenne Turbo Ss at my dealer were going for around 15% off MSRP.  Percentage discounts above were on leases.  Maybe more for an outright purchase.  

    When a car sell for 15% discount when it was just facelifted, the MSRP is just wrong... I do not understand Porsche strategy to price cars so high to give huge discounts... I guess then Panamera turbo S have at least 20% discount since they are an even worse value than the Cayenne...


    Re: 991 GTS

    SciFrog:
    Wonderbar:

    In the U.S., normal dealer discount off of MSRP is 6-8% without any hard bargaining.  Real deals come at the end of the facelift cycle.  Last year's new Cayenne Turbo Ss at my dealer were going for around 15% off MSRP.  Percentage discounts above were on leases.  Maybe more for an outright purchase.  

    When a car sell for 15% discount when it was just facelifted, the MSRP is just wrong... I do not understand Porsche strategy to price cars so high to give huge discounts... I guess then Panamera turbo S have at least 20% discount since they are an even worse value than the Cayenne...

    That sentence was surely intended to mean that pre-facelift ("last year's") cars were being sold off with 15% discount after the new FL version had come onto the market, which would hardly be surprising?   Smiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: 991 GTS

    Honestly facelift or not 15% is a massive discount, reflection of a product originally at the wrong price level. Surely Porsche is also missing out on many potential buyers who look at the price and don't even bother enquiring more. It is a stupid strategy.


    Re: 991 GTS

    SciFrog:

    Honestly facelift or not 15% is a massive discount, reflection of a product originally at the wrong price level. Surely Porsche is also missing out on many potential buyers who look at the price and don't even bother enquiring more. It is a stupid strategy.

    Would you be inclined to buy a new but "out-of-date" car for less then 15% discount? 

    It's just like an an end-of-season sale in a clothing store, except where cars are concerned the season may have been 3 or 4 years long.

    For the manufacturer and dealer it's a small price to pay for the benefit of having had unallocated cars in the showroom for casual buyers who don't want to wait for a production slot and delivery from the factory.
    --

     

    fritz

     


    Re: 991 GTS

    This facelift was very minor and only cosmetic for the turbo and turbo S... 15% for a car ordered from the factory (I think) is huge.


    Re: 991 GTS

    In the UK, most dealers have at least 15% in the car and could give this away if volume bonus depended on it. For any model.


    --

    991 Carrera Black\Black, XC90 Black\Black, 120 Cab Black\Coral Red - 2 kids, 1 dog


    Re: 991 GTS

    From memory in the US dealer margin is less than 10%. 15% discount has to have a kick back from the factory.


    Re: 991 GTS

    SciFrog:

    From memory in the US dealer margin is less than 10%. 15% discount has to have a kick back from the factory.

    I think it's at least 12% before incentives (and options are more).


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: 991 GTS

    SciFrog:
    Wonderbar:

    In the U.S., normal dealer discount off of MSRP is 6-8% without any hard bargaining.  Real deals come at the end of the facelift cycle.  Last year's new Cayenne Turbo Ss at my dealer were going for around 15% off MSRP.  Percentage discounts above were on leases.  Maybe more for an outright purchase.  

    When a car sell for 15% discount when it was just facelifted, the MSRP is just wrong... I do not understand Porsche strategy to price cars so high to give huge discounts... I guess then Panamera turbo S have at least 20% discount since they are an even worse value than the Cayenne...

    I got my former X5M with a 22 or 23% discount, just because dealer registered car for a month on his business first but I drove it from the beginning. At that time, the X5M was barely on the market, brand-new. Similar offers are available over here for AMG cars. 

    I do not see any problem with 15% for a Porsche pre-facelift model, I think Porsche even has some incentives in place to help dealers sell the cars. In Germany, there is (was?) that amazing lease offer for a 991 C4S for example, with a 9500 EUR initial payment and 911 EUR per month for 36 months and 10k km per year. On top of this amazing offer, you also have (had?) the choice to switch to the new facelift after 12 months without any penalties. Keep in mind that this is a mileage lease, not a residual value lease, so pretty amazing.

    The offers for the GTS were slightly worse because of high demand.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: 991 GTS

    I am actually tempted by this offer, as an additional DD for the bad weather season over here.


    Re: 991 GTS

    Good points all around.  In the instances I cited at large discounts, the cars had been on the floor for some time before and after the FL.  The dealer was ready to deal to get rid of the cars in inventory.  One car was a Panamera Turbo S, the other two were Cayenne Turbo Ss.  

    I looked at the two Cayennes carefully, but decided on a FL Turbo at a lower price and at least equal performance.

     


    Re: 991 GTS

    Testdrove today a Camine Red GTS - they claim they are going fast - allocations almost all gone - latest PDK generation is really fast - felt very solid - but sound was disappointing......they have a showcar rebate now (everything that is in store gets a additional discount) very tempting pricewise for Porsche - but I concluded that for me only GT2,3,4 etc - once you have been there it's very hard to go back....- they had a yellow Turbo S for 100 k SFR less LP with 9000 km only.....wow.....


    Re: 991 GTS

    I drove a Turbo S, GTS, and GT3 recently... GT3 was the most fun.  GTS sounded good, but nowhere near as good (to me) as the GT3.  The Turbo S didn't sound all that bad to me at all... after reading all the complaints online I guess the bar was set so low in my mind. 


    Re: 991 GTS

    Did some extensive Autobahn driving over the (very warm) weekend here in Bavaria.

    Drove with a friend who owns an Audi RS5 Cabriolet and I have to admit that I expected my 991 C4 GTS Cab to be faster. In the speed range 130 to 230 kph, I was maybe a bit faster (slow motion faster), maybe one car length gain, not more. Also, due to the higher torque, the Audi gained a tiny bit each time we accelerated but then fell off (very) slowly when the 991 engine reached higher rev figures. Overall, I expected more from my car but one magazine tested the RS5 Cab at 15.4 seconds from 0-200 kph and my C4 GTS Cab should be around 14.5 seconds or so, so it makes sense.

    The C4 GTS Cab reaches speeds up to 280 kph pretty fast but speeds over 280 kph are basically insignificant because it takes forever until you reach 290 or even 300 kph. Absolutely worthless. This was the first time I missed my 991 Turbo S.  Luckily, I also have the Shelby GT500 for the Autobahn. The C4 GTS Cab is more of a nice weather/bad weather/curvy roads car but it sucks on the Autobahn.

    On a side note: Also drove my Shelby GT500 on the Autobahn, had a BMW M5 breathing down my neck for over 40 km. You cannot imagine how much faster I was. Every time I accelerated from aprox. 120 to 290 kph, I was substantially faster. Was kind of fun but don't forget that my Shelby does 100 to 200 kph in 6 seconds flat.  Btw: We had 38°C Saturday and Sunday and the oil temperature of my Shelby was in the yellow zone after driving for over 50 km as fast as possible. Coolant temperature was absolutely normal, amazing considering that my car has 765 hp. I have a different  heat exchanger than stock, incl. two large fans (see photo)

    C&R GT500 Intercooler & Fans.jpg

    and I never had the feeling that the car was losing power at 38°C outside temperature. That M5 driver surely was depressed, he tried over and over again but not chance. indecision

    Up to 290 kph, the Shelby is there in no time, pretty amazing. If I had to take a guess, I'd say that it reaches 290 kph faster than my previous 991 Turbo S. In the 100 to 250 kph speed range, we already did a comparison and the Shelby was slightly faster (driving away very slowly).

    Now if I could fit that GT 500 engine into my C4 GTS Cab. yes smiley

    Last but not least, I noticed this on my exhaust pipes this morning. Apparently, due to excessive heat yesterday (was driving over 300 km at 38-40°C), the color changed to a slightly white color. Looks stupid now. Smiley

    yOqfZGkNiTVmjEbz7VUq4qndn4BK1gYo5NMJJf_nxMo.jpg


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: 991 GTS

    RC:

    The C4 GTS Cab reaches speeds up to 280 kph pretty fast but speeds over 280 kph are basically insignificant because it takes forever until you reach 290 or even 300 kph. Absolutely worthless. This was the first time I missed my 991 Turbo S.  Luckily, I also have the Shelby GT500 for the Autobahn. The C4 GTS Cab is more of a nice weather/bad weather/curvy roads car but it sucks on the Autobahn.

    roof up or down?


    Re: 991 GTS

    sfo:
    RC:

    The C4 GTS Cab reaches speeds up to 280 kph pretty fast but speeds over 280 kph are basically insignificant because it takes forever until you reach 290 or even 300 kph. Absolutely worthless. This was the first time I missed my 991 Turbo S.  Luckily, I also have the Shelby GT500 for the Autobahn. The C4 GTS Cab is more of a nice weather/bad weather/curvy roads car but it sucks on the Autobahn.

    roof up or down?

    Roof up.

    On my way back home with my wife, I was driving up to 240 kph with an open top (and raised wind deflector) but I have to say it was almost unbearable (noise, wind) and I didn't have the feeling that I could easily drive any faster.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 991 GTS

    RC:
    sfo:
    RC:

    The C4 GTS Cab reaches speeds up to 280 kph pretty fast but speeds over 280 kph are basically insignificant because it takes forever until you reach 290 or even 300 kph. Absolutely worthless. This was the first time I missed my 991 Turbo S.  Luckily, I also have the Shelby GT500 for the Autobahn. The C4 GTS Cab is more of a nice weather/bad weather/curvy roads car but it sucks on the Autobahn.

    roof up or down?

    Roof up.

    On my way back home with my wife, I was driving up to 240 kph with an open top (and raised wind deflector) but I have to say it was almost unbearable (noise, wind) and I didn't have the feeling that I could easily drive any faster.

    991 Cab is pretty good roof down at UK legal(ish) speeds of around 160kph.


    Re: 991 GTS

    The wind deflector on the 991 Cab is amazing. Up to 200 kph, you barely feel anything and even at 240 kph, your hair stays quite OK but the noise becomes unbearable.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 991 GTS

    so transmission were sorted out finally


    Re: 991 GTS

    martini964:

    so transmission were sorted out finally

    Are you referring to the Shelby? Yes, everything is 100% OK now, new clutch system, new bell housing, some minor improvements to improve cooling under stress and so on. Everything works like a charm, like I said before...38°C and long Autobahn drives and the oil temperature was "only" in the yellow field, which is pretty impressive. Most Shelby GT500 usually enter the red zone at these kind of temperatures after a prolonged Autobahn driving but I guess I am also lucky that my car has the track package with the additional oil cooler. A guy I know had to park his car on a parking lot because after only 10 km on the Autobahn, the temperature went into the red. He drove home not revving over 5000 rpm to keep the oil temperature down.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 991 GTS

    kiss


    Re: 991 GTS

    Forgot to mention: The guy's car is stock but he doesn't have the extra oil cooler. I actually wonder why Ford didn't make the track pack a standard option for this car.

    Back to topic: While my 991 C4 GTS Cab isn't slow by any means, it should be substantially faster than the RS5 Cab. I am a bit disappointed and while it doesn't really matter (I mainly use the Shelby, the Jeep SRT or the Macan Turbo for extended Autobahn driving), it would have been nice to have 460-470 hp from the start. The extra weight of the C4 Cab also doesn't help at all, even if the weight shouldn't play the biggest role at speeds over 200 kph.

     


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: 991 GTS

    Christian, maybe a visit to RS would change your disappointment.although I don't know if they start working on 991's engine yet


    Re: 991 GTS

    martini964:

    Christian, maybe a visit to RS would change your disappointment.although I don't know if they start working on 991's engine yet

    RS Tuning is good with turbo charged "Mezger" engines but there isn't much you can do about a GTS engine (other than reprogramming for 100 octane (95 octane US) fuel and maybe achieving an additional 20 horses, which is ridiculous and would only void the warranty).

    I am happy though since I barely drive on the Autobahn in my GTS and on curvy country roads, there aren't many cars standing a chance. For the Autobahn, I have the Shelby, so no regrets here. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 991 GTS

    RC:
    martini964:

    Christian, maybe a visit to RS would change your disappointment.although I don't know if they start working on 991's engine yet

    RS Tuning is good with turbo charged "Mezger" engines but there isn't much you can do about a GTS engine (other than reprogramming for 100 octane (95 octane US) fuel and maybe achieving an additional 20 horses, which is ridiculous and would only void the warranty).

    I am happy though since I barely drive on the Autobahn in my GTS and on curvy country roads, there aren't many cars standing a chance. For the Autobahn, I have the Shelby, so no regrets here. Smiley

    and what do you do when you need to take the highway to reach the curvy road? ::))))

    cheers peter


    Re: 991 GTS

    pmarkow:
     

    and what do you do when you need to take the highway to reach the curvy road? ::))))

    cheers peter

    Never happens. When I drive my GTS on curvy roads outside the city, I do it by choice, not by need. Smiley

    Usually, I am only on the Autobahn when I want to get from A to B as fast as possible. This is when the Shelby comes in or the Jeep/Macan (depending on number of passengers and luggage).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 991 GTS

    sfo:

    991 Cab is pretty good roof down at UK legal(ish) speeds of around 160kph.

    The Boxster GTS is terrible roof down at anything approaching 130 kph let alone 160 kph. Worse than the Boxster 987 was. Maybe because the old Boxster had a solid wind deflector, the new one is mesh. So anytime on motorways is always roof up, drop it as soon as we come off.


    --

    Porsche Boxster GTS Carrara white / Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive


    Re: 991 GTS

    It's not the mesh wind deflector. I replaced it on my Ex 981 Boxster S with a glas wind deflector. Nothing changed only better sight backwards. Later I tried a new higher version of the glas wind deflector. This improved it a little bit upto 100kph. But it get worse with that above 140kph.


    Re: 991 GTS

    Good to hear the car runs smooth again.

    I would have expected that the Audi is even faster than the GTS. It has higher capacity, higher torque, more HP. 

    Regarding top-speed. sure - this is where the Turbo has its extreme power. But hey.... 280 is great! I guess you have to swallow this bad cherry - other than that it seems you have insane fun with this baby :)

     


     
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