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    So I am back again (458 or MP4-12C advice needed)

    I seem to be picking up the bad habit of Greg, ie disappearing for a while then return, except I don't disappear for long. haha.

    Nice to see Jason came back on board, one of the reason I want to be active again.

    For those that are interested, I still have the Turbo S, B7 and the X6M although the X6M is on life support as I have ordered a G63 as it's replacement.

    One of the reasons I am back is I want some input in deciding a purchase between a 458 or a MP4-12C.

    There are pros and cons on either, e.g. I like the gull wing doors on the Mac, the rarity of the Mac but that's also a cons as there is no local dealer, the closest one is on the other side of the continent so servicing would be an issue. Ferrari has a local dealer so that would not be an issue. Subjectively the 458 has a MUCH better exhaust sound. Availability is also in the 458's favor, but only for the coupe version as the spider version would equal that playing field. All out performance would not be an issue, I can never go NEAR the top speed, and my Turbo S will eat either one for breakfast lunch and dinner on acceleration, especially from 0. I have sat in both, the 458 SEEMS to be a little more comfortable but not enough to really make a difference, but I kinda dislike the busy busy steering wheel in the 458 yet not enough to DQ it.

    The new car is going to be a toy, an expensive toy that I will be giving myself for birthday. wasn't really planning for it but the tax Nazi changed my decision, they are going to raise the car tax another 3%, I didn't want to contribute more money to supply drugs and alcohol to the bums so I decided to buy something before the new tax kicks in.

    There are multiple members who has both cars so I am eager to see what advices they have.


    Re: So I am back again

    From owners I talked to and the many many reports I've read on the internet, I think the Ferrari 458 is just more fun from every point of view. I know that MP4-12C owners will probably disagree but this is all I have, sorry.

    More input should roll in from those who actually own one of these beautiful cars.

    I edited your thread title a little bit, so people know what this is all about. I hope you don't mind. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: So I am back again

    RC, since you have edited the post a little, you may want to slightly alter the title of the thread by deleting the "F" in front of "F458".  Just a minor detail though...


    Re: So I am back again

    It will be down to what gives you more emotions when looking at it , sitting in it and driving it.

    I test drove both ....... for me there would be no hesitation ,  I much prefer the Mclaren , only the sound is better in the 458 to me, but when going into the high revs in the McLaren, I had plenty of good sound too.

    Personally I prefer the rarity, and the ' calmer look ' of the MP4 + I love the purety of the inside  .  Ferrari does just not match my personal taste.


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: So I am back again (F458 or MP4-12C advice needed)

    I think it's too risky to own a car that is relatively new to the market without having a dealership around you. Get the 458.


    --

    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: So I am back again (F458 or MP4-12C advice needed)

    I'd go with the 458 based on the circumstances you'd described. It looks amazing and has a sound that will keep you up at night. I do confess though that I still haven't seen the MP4 in person so my advise is not really fair. I like the MP4m the rarity and the doors really tick some important boxes. 

    I do think however that since you mentioned that you're going to take advantage of a tax situation and get the car you should give a little more thought to the financial part of this. Even if the McL has its appeal the 458 will certainly be more cost effective to maintain and repair (in case you ever need that, I hope you never do) Also resale value is sure to be better for the Ferrari if you're so far away from a McL dealer and service providers. It takes a bit of the fun out of the purchase but its good to throw it in there. 


    Re: So I am back again (F458 or MP4-12C advice needed)

    The extra tax amounts to ~10k, I can certainly afford it, but I don't like to pay just based on personal principle, I'd rather donate 10k to a charity just so I know it won't be mis-used.

    I actually have been struggling between these 2 cars for a while, I know either way I will certainly enjoy the car I choose, but it's just such a difficult decision for me to pick, or for pretty much a lot of you guys too unless someone is either a Ferrari fanatic or a McLaren fanatic.

    Either one is going to be a flashy car, even in black, but I do kind of echo Gnil's opinion about the styling part, car seems more focus on the driver, while the 458 seems to be focusing on grabbing 3rd party attention first.

    But Pentium also has a valid point, the Mac is an unknown, while with the 458 there won't be much surprise, I will know exactly what I am getting.

    This is like a kid in a candy store, for people who don't understand it would seems like bragging but to the understanding people here in the forum it's a legitimate difficult decision.


    Re: So I am back again (F458 or MP4-12C advice needed)

    I've been in your shoes ;) It is hard to chose. If you never owned a Ferrari the decision should be simpler. It's your duty to have an F-car and a P-car once in your life :D Macca, Lamborghini or other brands are optional :)


    --

    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: So I am back again (F458 or MP4-12C advice needed)

    How about waiting for the 458 Scuderia and have the "newest" of both ?


    Re: So I am back again (F458 or MP4-12C advice needed)

    The 458 is the default choice for this kind of car, as things stand now.

    In the theoretical event I could afford  this type of car and appreciated what the McLaren has to offer (some more advanced technology, more civility in normal driving, slightly better track times ) I'd wait for the Porsche 961. I believe the MP4 fan is closer to the Porsche philosophy than Ferrari's.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: So I am back again (F458 or MP4-12C advice needed)

    On the Swiss auto-scout site there are 68     F458 to sell ( second hand )  in a  country of 8 million . The cheapest is 50 % off normal price.

    Most of them between 35 and 40 % off normal price , with very few km.  

    So, I would not consider the 458 to be the ' safe ' buy.

    The MP4 seems to hold its price better over here.


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: So I am back again (F458 or MP4-12C advice needed)

    Why not do a 'Mike S' and buy both - that way you'd be saving 20K in tax.... smiley

    Seriously, there's a thread here from Crayphile who has owned/driven both cars extensively and gives an excellent report...

    http://www.rennteam.com/forum/thread/20373273/Exit_458_Italia_enter_MP412C/page1.html?postListCfg%3Dcategorytreesort%3Dpath%26re...


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: So I am back again (F458 or MP4-12C advice needed)

    Gnil:

    On the Swiss auto-scout site there are 68     F458 to sell ( second hand )  in a  country of 8 million . The cheapest is 50 % off normal price.

    Most of them between 35 and 40 % off normal price , with very few km.  

    So, I would not consider the 458 to be the ' safe ' buy.

    The MP4 seems to hold its price better over here.


    Definitely. The times when you could consider a Ferrari (especially the V8 models) a safe bet are over. Smiley

    As reginos said before, I'd say the MP4-12C attracts the typical Porsche customer more than any Ferrari, but a Ferrari might a nice addition for someone, who already owns a P-car. Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: So I am back again (F458 or MP4-12C advice needed)

    The 12C is falling harder and faster in value in it's home market than the 458. The 458 is only now starting to decline but it's comparative residuals are still well above the McLaren. This is a traditionally quiet time of year for selling this type of car but friends I have in the trade tell me the 12C has been a very hard car to sell on the used market all year. There are cars for sale that have been advertised for over 8 months, had regular price reductions but still failed to sell. I suspect many used buyers have watched the initial depreciation with some surprise and are worried to jump in before the market finds it's true level. There is a 2012, 650 mile car that is loaded with £58k worth of options that is currently being marketed at under the basic list price excluding options. That is scary depreciation in anyone's book and it's a black/black car so should have reasonable appeal.

    Most of the used 12C's here seem to have been spec'ed in fairly sombre/dull colour combinations so do not look at all like exotics. Whilst initial buyers evidently favoured this restrained look it appears that used buyers do not. Anything that is a bit more daring tends to sell whilst the silver, grey and black cars struggle or simply don't move.

     

     


    Re: So I am back again (F458 or MP4-12C advice needed)

    Rossi:
     

    As reginos said before, I'd say the MP4-12C attracts the typical Porsche customer more than any Ferrari, but a Ferrari might a nice addition for someone, who already owns a P-car. Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

     Not necessarily. I would go for the 458 for various reasons (chassis, handling, sound) but you are right, used Ferrari prices started to drop, so people should have fun with the car but not bet on a high used car value when they want to sell it.

    Things look pretty weird lately, old 964 and 993 gained a lot of value lately over here but newer used Ferraris are sold at prices which were not possible a short while ago. Weird.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: So I am back again (F458 or MP4-12C advice needed)

    RC:
    Rossi:
     

    As reginos said before, I'd say the MP4-12C attracts the typical Porsche customer more than any Ferrari, but a Ferrari might a nice addition for someone, who already owns a P-car. Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

     Not necessarily. I would go for the 458 for various reasons (chassis, handling, sound) but you are right, used Ferrari prices started to drop, so people should have fun with the car but not bet on a high used car value when they want to sell it.

    Things look pretty weird lately, old 964 and 993 gained a lot of value lately over here but newer used Ferraris are sold at prices which were not possible a short while ago. Weird.

    One could also get one used with a low mileage - and thus profit from the depreciationSmiley (Ferrari - as others - offers the full warranty for pre-owned cars)


    Re: So I am back again (F458 or MP4-12C advice needed)

    MKSGR:
    but newer used Ferraris are sold at prices which were not possible a short while ago. Weird.

     market is saturated ..

    build too many, residuals have to suffer


    Re: So I am back again (F458 or MP4-12C advice needed)

    Markus...I'm afraid this is what I am going to do in the future: I will not go for new cars again, it simply doesn't make sense, unless I have money to give away (which I don't). Thank god I didn't buy my Panamera Turbo S, even now the depreciation seems to be enormous. I've seen cars for 40k EUR less with only 10k km on the speedo.

    So if I ever decide to get a 991 Turbo, I think it is going to be a slightly used one with full dealer warranty. I could save at least 30% and since I barely drive the car, it would make a lot of sense.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: So I am back again (F458 or MP4-12C advice needed)

    sfo:
     

     market is saturated ..

    build too many, residuals have to suffer

    I can't comment on other markets but do know that UK allocation for the 458 was cut way back on the previous silly volume of 430s that were sold. Coupe allocation was then further reduced this year on the back of the launch of the 458 spider which is also being brought in in very low numbers. The problem for the 458 coupe just now is that UK spider allocation only really started arriving around 6 weeks ago so a higher than usual number of cars have hit the used market at the end of the season as owners trade them against the spider. This is creating an unnatural over supply blip in the market. The same thing happened with the 430 Scuderia when the 458 was launched. I was lucky this time around and got my spider back in early June so missed this issue.

    Interestingly I was told last week that Porsche GB have also considerably cut back on the number of new cars they will be importing next year with the 991 being the prime target for reduction which isn't surprising. What I was very surprised to hear is that dealers are only being given 1 new Cayenne diesel S per month.


    Re: So I am back again (F458 or MP4-12C advice needed)

    ISUK:

    Interestingly I was told last week that Porsche GB have also considerably cut back on the number of new cars they will be importing next year with the 991 being the prime target for reduction which isn't surprising.

     heard the same from 2 OPCs ..


    Re: So I am back again (F458 or MP4-12C advice needed)

    RC:

    Markus...I'm afraid this is what I am going to do in the future: I will not go for new cars again, it simply doesn't make sense, unless I have money to give away (which I don't). Thank god I didn't buy my Panamera Turbo S, even now the depreciation seems to be enormous. I've seen cars for 40k EUR less with only 10k km on the speedo.

    So if I ever decide to get a 991 Turbo, I think it is going to be a slightly used one with full dealer warranty. I could save at least 30% and since I barely drive the car, it would make a lot of sense.

    Would be a smart thing to do Smiley I somehow feel that the specs are not that relevant, i.e. theoretically one could also live with cars which are not 100% specced to order Smiley


    Re: So I am back again (F458 or MP4-12C advice needed)

    With my kids going to college soon, I am facing some huge expenses. Buying a slightly used luxury P car is making more and more sense.

    Re: So I am back again (458 or MP4-12C advice needed)

    Sorry  - a little late to the party here. There really is no right or wrong answer here  - they are both extraordinary vehicles - be guided by your emotions and nothing else would be my advice Smiley. The depreciation argument is a largely false one in my view given that none of these vehicles are rational purchases, though I agree with ISUK that the MP4 is harder hit here in the UK  - though on mainland Europe the reverse appears to be true. If you are keeping the Turbo S then I would go for the 458 rather than another turbo charged car. I would be concerned about having a dealer so far away - though the McLarens appear to be mercifully free of any major niggles.. I think the 458 shades it as a coupe, but perhaps the MP4 Spider with a carbon tub and in a bright colour shades the 458 Spider. Either way you can't go wrong  - enjoy Smiley


    Re: So I am back again (458 or MP4-12C advice needed)

    @John H, that thought has crossed my mind believe me, while I can afford it financially, I don't think my marriage will survive haha. My wife is still bitching about the Turbo S and that was over 6 months ago.

    @crayphile, I missed your thread as I was away form the board for a while, but I did went through it and find it extremely informative. Many thanks. But the part about "be guided by your emotions and nothing else" is quite dangerous :). MY 'emotions' tells me I should buy the McLaren F1, the last one that got sold was over $5mil. The house i just bought earlier in the year cost that much, might have to sell it to finance the 'emotion' car.

    Right now my left brain is telling me to get the MP4, my more rational right brain is telling me to get the 458, don't ask why all of a sudden buying Ferrari is a rational decision. It makes more sense for me to get the 458. But..........

    Having said all that, I think I am 70-30 on the McLaren, that gull wing is really hard to pass up, the drivability of the MP4 on everyday roads is also a big plus, the rarity factor is also a big bonus, at my neck of the woods all the 458 are bought by 18 yr old mainland Chinese students and there are MANY of them around, and lastly the anonymous look of the McLaren also sway my thinking, I never was a flashy kind of guy which is why I like 911s so much, no one really pays a second look to 911 drivers.

    But there is a new twist, I think I like the spider version of the MP4 more, I gave up nothing buying the spider version, even the roof profile is more or less retained, but I gain the chance to have open air whenever I want.

    There is a couple second hand 458 for sell right now, very tempting for instant gratification, but somehow Ferrari ownership still eludes me. This is the 4th time in my life that I have a chance to purchase a Ferrari, I passed the last 3 times. For some reason I just don't get THAT itch to own a Ferrari.

    I contacted the McLaren sales office for more information, specifically about aftersales support, just waiting for them to get back to me. Gonna be out of town for a couple weeks so I don't expect myself to get the ball rolling at least until the end of the month be it 458 or MP4.

     


    Re: So I am back again (458 or MP4-12C advice needed)

    Seems like you really like the MP4 more than the 458. If your heart tells you MP4 then go for it, no sense is buying a sports car in this category if you're going to spend your time looking back and wishing it was another one. 


    Re: So I am back again (458 or MP4-12C advice needed)

    Whoopsy:

    My wife is still bitching about the Turbo S and that was over 6 months ago.

    Time to change the wife..?  angry smiley

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: So I am back again (458 or MP4-12C advice needed)

    John H:
    Whoopsy:

    My wife is still bitching about the Turbo S and that was over 6 months ago.

    Time to change the wife..?  angry smiley

     

     

    That would be even costlier than a F1..............................


    Re: So I am back again (458 or MP4-12C advice needed)

    Whoopsy:
    John H:
    Whoopsy:

    My wife is still bitching about the Turbo S and that was over 6 months ago.

    Time to change the wife..?  angry smiley

    That would be even costlier than a F1..............................

    kiss

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: So I am back again (458 or MP4-12C advice needed)

    It seems McLaren dealers may finally be realising that to grab interest in this type of car you need to display them in bold colours to arouse emotional interest. This one is apparently in the window of McLaren London and I'm betting they are getting a lot more interest in the car from people than the usual silver, grey or black would generate.

    This, along with the launch car 3 layer metallic yellow spider, are the first McLarens I've seen that actually start to look like supercars where the colour flatters, accentuates and enhances the design.

    Green.JPG

     

     


    Re: So I am back again (458 or MP4-12C advice needed)

    A McLaren in bold colours graps the initial attention but like an old lady with lots of make up, it doesn't change what lies underneath.

     


    --

    "Form follows function"


     
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