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    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    So only 20 seconds faster than a GTS with rear seats indecision


    --

    2017 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS | GT Silver Metallic - The GT3 Killah!
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    bluelines:

    So only 20 seconds faster than a GTS with rear seats indecision


    Was the GTS white? SmileySmiley


    --

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    White is so passé. GT Silver is the fastest indecision


    --

    2017 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS | GT Silver Metallic - The GT3 Killah!
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    RC:
    Boyko23:

    SA supertest: 6.58!!!

    This is impressive indeed. Smiley

    Really? CG is usually around 8-10s off Porsche official time on the Ring. So, no surprise here. On the other hand it makes me wonder about that unusual AMS track times for both 720S and 991.2 GT2 RS. Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    Did they use normal tires or R version for Supertest?


    --

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    R version AFAIK. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    KresoF1:

    R version AFAIK. 

    Sportauto needs to show lap times with the tire available to customers as well. Testing this „special“ tire only would just contribute to the erosion of credibility Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    Well, I have a different problem with that Ring time. Döttinger Höhe top Speed for 991.2 GT2 RS in this lap is 310km/h. Very good amateur in 720S with Corsas do 320km/h on the same spot(can be seen on few videos on YouTube). Somebody like CG can do better then very good amateur for sure.

    My little analysis tells me that 720S is same hands should be more or less capable the same time as 991.2 GT2 RS. Even on Corsas.

    That puts more then one doubt on 720S HvS AZ Ring time.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    KresoF1:

    Well, I have a different problem with that Ring time. Döttinger Höhe top Speed for 991.2 GT2 RS in this lap is 310km/h. Very good amateur in 720S with Corsas do 320km/h on the same spot(can be seen on few videos on YouTube). Somebody like CG can do better then very good amateur for sure.

    My little analysis tells me that 720S is same hands should be more or less capable the same time as 991.2 GT2 RS. Even on Corsas.

    That puts more then one doubt on 720S HvS AZ Ring time.

    what do you think about the most aggresive aero setup which is limiting the max speed?Smiley


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    I don’t understand why SportAuto times matter. With any car doing the Ring the question is what is the fastest time it can achieve. If factory drivers achieve the fastest times then that is all that matters. Magazine drivers are handicapped to some extent and therefore invariably have slower times.So who cares what magazine times are?broken heart


    --

    Where the willingness is great, the difficulties cannot be great.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    I agree. Lap times should be factory driver but 100% stock car that anyone can buy.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    Factory lap claims have always been dubious to say the least, there are many ways to "cheat"(not so much Porsche but lambo, merc, etc) so the magazine lap times are a necesary reality check for the factory claims. They are never going to match factory claims but they need to be proportional, otherwise you know the manufacturer is greasing the times for marketing purposes.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    KresoF1:
    RC:
    Boyko23:

    SA supertest: 6.58!!!

    This is impressive indeed. Smiley

    Really? CG is usually around 8-10s off Porsche official time on the Ring. So, no surprise here. On the other hand it makes me wonder about that unusual AMS track times for both 720S and 991.2 GT2 RS. Smiley

     

    As far as I know the Ringtime from Porsche was set with the Cup 2 "N", not with the sticky "R".
    Only the 991.2 GT3 RS time was with the "R".

    So the difference is more then just 8-10 seconds...


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    Carlos from Spain:

    Factory lap claims have always been dubious to say the least, there are many ways to "cheat"(not so much Porsche but lambo, merc, etc) so the magazine lap times are a necesary reality check for the factory claims. They are never going to match factory claims but they need to be proportional, otherwise you know the manufacturer is greasing the times for marketing purposes.

    Carlos, if you mean keep them honest I agree. But magazine times are not anywhere near the true performance capabilities of the car. If there is cheating, usually this is discovered.


    --

    Where the willingness is great, the difficulties cannot be great.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl0HtR6MaXs

    Sport Auto laptimes:

    -------------------Porsche 991.2 GT2 RS: 6:58.28
    Porsche 991 GT3 RS Manthey-Racing: 7:09.59
    ----------------Mercedes-Benz AMG GT R: 7:10.92
    --------------Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (C7): 7:13.90
    ---------------------Porsche 991.2 Turbo S: 7:17.11
    --------------------------Porsche 991.2 GT3: 7:18.20
    -------------------------------Ferrari 488 GTB: 7:21.63
    ---------------Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS: 7:23.77


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    Dane:
    KresoF1:
    RC:
    Boyko23:

    SA supertest: 6.58!!!

    This is impressive indeed. Smiley

    Really? CG is usually around 8-10s off Porsche official time on the Ring. So, no surprise here. On the other hand it makes me wonder about that unusual AMS track times for both 720S and 991.2 GT2 RS. Smiley

     

    As far as I know the Ringtime from Porsche was set with the Cup 2 "N", not with the sticky "R".
    Only the 991.2 GT3 RS time was with the "R".

    So the difference is more then just 8-10 seconds...

    Unfortunately that is not correct. Porsche press time was done on non-standard tires of unknown specifican. I.e. marketing without a link to customer cars...


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    nberry:

    I don’t understand why SportAuto times matter.

    Level playing field for all brands this way - only fair way to compare cars to one another.


    --

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    The GT2RS did do their Ring time on the Cup2 N2 spec. I was told as such at Weissach.

    Retail ones too, nothing special about them. But they did hand pick the best 4 tires out of the batch.


    --

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    Whoopsy:

    The GT2RS did do their Ring time on the Cup2 N2 spec. I was told as such at Weissach.

    Retail ones too, nothing special about them. But they did hand pick the best 4 tires out of the batch.

    Oh, so only .2 3RS on R tires?


    --

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    Grant:
    Whoopsy:

    The GT2RS did do their Ring time on the Cup2 N2 spec. I was told as such at Weissach.

    Retail ones too, nothing special about them. But they did hand pick the best 4 tires out of the batch.

    Oh, so only .2 3RS on R tires?

     

    Yes.

    Back when they tested the GT2RS there isn't the 'R' compound tire yet.

    Put the special compound tires on the GT2RS and it will be that much quicker still.

    The only tweak they did to the GT2RS was to crank the wing to max attack angle. That's it.


    --

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    Whoopsy:

    The GT2RS did do their Ring time on the Cup2 N2 spec. I was told as such at Weissach.

    Retail ones too, nothing special about them. But they did hand pick the best 4 tires out of the batch.

    Maybe Weissach wanted to tell you something to calm down worries. However, the information given in Weissach is most certainly incorrect. It would not make sense that Porsche is 10s quicker than the Sportauto Supertest pn tires that are another 10s or so slower... You probably agree?

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    MKSGR:
    Whoopsy:

    The GT2RS did do their Ring time on the Cup2 N2 spec. I was told as such at Weissach.

    Retail ones too, nothing special about them. But they did hand pick the best 4 tires out of the batch.

    Maybe Weissach wanted to tell you something to calm down worries. However, the information given in Weissach is most certainly incorrect. It would not make sense that Porsche is 10s quicker than the Sportauto Supertest pn tires that are another 10s or so slower... You probably agree?

    Maybe SA used N2 tires also - that would make most sense (if Porsche used N2)


    --

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    the last serious discussion I had about it was the R compound used for the record known as formerly ZT compound and this is not coming from Porsche team. angry


    --

     

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

     

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    Grant:
    MKSGR:
    Whoopsy:

    The GT2RS did do their Ring time on the Cup2 N2 spec. I was told as such at Weissach.

    Retail ones too, nothing special about them. But they did hand pick the best 4 tires out of the batch.

    Maybe Weissach wanted to tell you something to calm down worries. However, the information given in Weissach is most certainly incorrect. It would not make sense that Porsche is 10s quicker than the Sportauto Supertest pn tires that are another 10s or so slower... You probably agree?

    Maybe SA used N2 tires also - that would make most sense (if Porsche used N2)

    SA posted that they used the special tires (not customer car spec). 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    MKSGR:
    Whoopsy:

    The GT2RS did do their Ring time on the Cup2 N2 spec. I was told as such at Weissach.

    Retail ones too, nothing special about them. But they did hand pick the best 4 tires out of the batch.

    Maybe Weissach wanted to tell you something to calm down worries. However, the information given in Weissach is most certainly incorrect. It would not make sense that Porsche is 10s quicker than the Sportauto Supertest pn tires that are another 10s or so slower... You probably agree?

     

     

     

    They have no reason to lie to me, especially when I am already inside the gate and them showing me stuff that's coming. The project manager, the team manager and even the tech that selected the tires were all on hand and available for questioning. Plus, I already had that information before I even when inside the gate, so it was more or less confirming my 2nd source. And a 3rd. Cause the lack of available R compound Cup2s was communicated to me by Michelin, not Porsche. 

    We had suspected the R compound tires are 10 seconds faster but we don't know and cannot confirm. 

    Changing track conditions can already account for at least 5 seconds if not 10 at the Ring when it is so big. On our track, morning runs and hot afternoon runs already have a 1.5 seconds difference and it's only a 2:10-2:12 lap. 

    Skills, whoever was doing the SportAuto test, are they even remotely close in skills to Lars Kern and Nick Tandy? it was made very clear to us that the GT2RS is not an easy car to drive at the limit, and hence I questioned their wisdom in doing the GT2 ClubSport for amateurs.

    Not the first time Porsche made a car that needs lots of seat time to extract maximum performance, 918 was one and the CGT is another. GT2RS will just be another one. Actually same ca be said of the original 930 Turbo, Porsche CREATED the Sport Driving School just for that car. 


    --

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    MKSGR:
    Grant:
    MKSGR:
    Whoopsy:

    The GT2RS did do their Ring time on the Cup2 N2 spec. I was told as such at Weissach.

    Retail ones too, nothing special about them. But they did hand pick the best 4 tires out of the batch.

    Maybe Weissach wanted to tell you something to calm down worries. However, the information given in Weissach is most certainly incorrect. It would not make sense that Porsche is 10s quicker than the Sportauto Supertest pn tires that are another 10s or so slower... You probably agree?

    Maybe SA used N2 tires also - that would make most sense (if Porsche used N2)

    SA posted that they used the special tires (not customer car spec). 

    So it only proves SA uses slower drivers. Not surprised. AND it confirms that SA and other magazine tests are worthless IF you are trying to determine the true capability of a car.


    --

    Where the willingness is great, the difficulties cannot be great.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    nberry:

    So it only proves SA uses slower drivers. Not surprised. AND it confirms that SA and other magazine tests are worthless IF you are trying to determine the true capability of a car.

    Nick - why are you more concerned with the absolute maximum potential, rather than the relative ability compared to its rivals?  Even you freely admit that you won't approach the max potential...


    --

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    Nick has a point. Since you cannot even get close to the potential of the SA drivers, what you need is the absolute max potential possible. Factory drivers will do that, but it needs 100% stocs cars on customer available tires.

    That said the ultimate criteria for people like me would be how fun is the car?
    #1 Singer (targa)
    #2 720S (spot soon to be replaced by the top down version of it)

    and well below a whole slew of cars with no Porsche in sight except the GTx models and even then somewhat in the bottom half.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    Whoopsy:
     

     Cause the lack of available R compound Cup2s was communicated to me by Michelin, not Porsche. 

    Michelin told me the opposite...GT2RS super time was done with the sticky compound...so who is saying the truth?Smiley


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    Grant, these test do not related to us in any way. None of us can get to maximum capability driving these cars. So the question is what is the car I am buying capable of? As far as I am concerned, magazine drivers do not provide us the information. Only the car manufacturers with their “official” times do. 

    I buy TV’s, smart phones and computers which I use to less than half of their capability but I still buy them. A car is no different. With all these products I rely on the manufacturers(not magazines)to tell me what they are capable of. 


    --

    Where the willingness is great, the difficulties cannot be great.


     
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