Crown

To be auctioned for Save the children this weekend in Maranello at the 70th Anniversary celebrations

Let's predict the winning auction bid. I predict 3.5M.

"A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."

nberry:

Let's predict the winning auction bid. I predict 3.5M.

That would be a steal then because you get to write of anything over MSRP as a charitable donation I believe.

At least 7MM. There are a couple of used ones for sale at that price.

What is MSRP?

"A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."

1.6

JoeRockhead:

At least 7MM. There are a couple of used ones for sale at that price.

That's just stupid money.

"A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."

nberry:

That's just stupid money.

Yeah,  but it's for charity. 

nberry:

That's just stupid money.

If I were a billionaire, I would do that. Great car for a great cause, nothing more to add.  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

its probably taxdeductable

BjoernB:

its probably taxdeductable

Of course...  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

nberry:

That's just stupid money.

If I were a billionaire, I would do that. Great car for a great cause, nothing more to add.  

Exactly - if you are a high baller you better spend it for a good reason and even receiving a nice Ferrari for it 

This is just a way to give $7M to charity and get a LF at MSRP that is worth 2-3x MSRP.

BjoernB:

its probably taxdeductable

Not all of it. The MSRP of the car isn't and only a portion of the remaining amount. Like I said, stupid money. 

"A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."

nberry:

BjoernB:

its probably taxdeductable

Not all of it. The MSRP of the car isn't and only a portion of the remaining amount. Like I said, stupid money. 

We really don't know the breakdown since the sale happened in Europe. Who knows how it is being bought etc.

The MSRP is not deductible, but a large portion of the premium will be. Given the premium that they trade for over MSRP anyway, the price might not be that dumb for someone who just wanted one and donates millions to charity anyway.

If the buyer was set on donating X to charity and wanted an LF, this was the best way to go about it. This way gets him and LF and gives as much as possible to charity.

You can buy a used one for around $7MM, so it's actually not that bad of a deal, relatively speaking. 

nberry:

BjoernB:

its probably taxdeductable

Not all of it. The MSRP of the car isn't and only a portion of the remaining amount. Like I said, stupid money. 

Well...you can't have it all, can you?! 

This reminds me of an "incident" with a friend (or better said acquaintance) of mine, who happens to be a billionaire.

We met a couple of times and my kids were with me as well. During one meet, my son asked me quietly why this guy doesn't give us a million for free if he has so much money. Unfortunately, this guy heard what my son said.

His reply was quite frank: "If you want money, you have to earn it." No smile on his face.

My son never forgot that, also not the fact that every time we met, this guy didn't even get the kids a piece of chocolate. For comparison: Many (much less wealthy people) I usually meet almost always have a small gift or some sweets for my kids with them. 

Long story short: There is a reason why some people are that rich and I do not blame them. However, personally, I always enjoy it a lot to give gifts to kids because I love the look in their eyes and the faces they make when I give them the gift(s). Probably a reason why I don't have that much money.   

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Well, the real reason he didn't give you a million dollars was because you were an acquaintance, not best friends. I'm merely a lowly "millionaire", but I'd have no problem giving them 1/1000th of my net worth. Unfortunately for them (and me?) 1/1000 of my net worth doesn't really go that far hahaha

noone1:

Well, the real reason he didn't give you a million dollars was because you were an acquaintance, not best friends. I'm merely a lowly "millionaire", but I'd have no problem giving them 1/1000th of my net worth. Unfortunately for them (and me?) 1/1000 of my net worth doesn't really go that far hahaha

Well, I have two friends who are billionaires but they haven't given me any money either...yet.  I shouldn't complain though, they have been generous in many other ways. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Someone explain to me why it is good to give cash to your friends (as a gift). If a friend accepts cash with no reason I would question his friendship plus it means that he doesn't have ethics spending other people's money.

wantone:

Someone explain to me why it is good to give cash to your friends (as a gift). If a friend accepts cash with no reason I would question his friendship plus it means that he doesn't have ethics spending other people's money.

Maybe you misunderstood me, I never expected someone to give me cash or any gifts. I was just referring to what my son once asked (kids) and the reaction of that guy. Also, many of my friends have always been generous in other ways (lending cars, providing houses/condos for trips, inviting us on a yacht, etc.), so I shouldn't really complain. Even got a Vertu phone as a gift from a Japanese Rennteam user many many years ago...people are generous, especially when you expect it the least. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

wantone:

Someone explain to me why it is good to give cash to your friends (as a gift). If a friend accepts cash with no reason I would question his friendship plus it means that he doesn't have ethics spending other people's money.

It's neither universally good or bad. Like everything, it depends. I can say quite truthfully that there are probably 3-4 friends who would absolute get a nice chunk of change to let them pursue whatever they want for the rest of their lives. I'm getting older. The people still in my life are the ones who will always be. They're pretty much all been weeded out to the best of the best. Those people could even flat out ask for money and I'd think nothing of it (unless I worried they were going to screw up their life as a result).

If my best friend won the $700M lotto last week, the very next day I'd have a) started giving him financial advice and getting him in touch with the appropriate lawyers, accountants, advisers, etc and have a very long discussion about how this is going to change his life and b) ask for $10M. I'd probably then take $5M of that and make sure it's safely invested so that I could give it back to him in the event he somehow managed to screw up and blow all his money LOL

If people want me to spend their money, I'd gladly do it. Likewise, if I wanted them to spend my money, I'd have no problem with it. It has nothing to do with ethics.

Money distorts every relationship, family or friend. We have tried to stay away from mixing both but that's not always quite possible.

SciFrog:

Money distorts every relationship, family or friend. We have tried to stay away from mixing both but that's not always quite possible.

It is difficult, indeed. One of my friends, he owns a transport company (over 50 trucks ), occasionally throws me a key of one of his cars (mostly Aventador, 488, F-Type SVR, AMG GT S, Carrera GT and such...) and lets me have it for a weekend. Shouldn't do more than 500 km on weekends though, not easy. Anyway, every time I ask him what I can do for him (I try to be friendly and thankful) and last time he was so annoyed that he yelled at me ("if you ever ask this again, we're done..."). I didn't know what came into him but... 

I feel good in the presence of people who have more wealth than I do because I'm not envious (at least not in a negative sense) but not everyone is the same. I learned to keep my mouth shut, to enjoy the courtesy I get from time to time and to treat these people like everybody else. Seems to work. 

Never did business with these friends though (OK, they bought stuff from my business but this is something else) but I wouldn't even know what kind of business to do with them.  In my line of profession, there isn't much I can do with these people (business-wise). 

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

I don't find that money distorts relationships if a) you're a good judge of characters and don't have friends like that in the first place, and b) you "keep it real".

I don't really have any wealthy friends. Everyone is middle class, maybe slightly upper middle class. We don't do fancy shit. We don't do expensive dinners. We get together and get $15 baseball tickers or BBQ. We play board games, go to the movies, play video games, randomly show up at the other person's work and just bullshit for an hour or two.

When your relationships begin to diverge due to what you're doing with your money, that's when things can get worse. When people start feeling like they can't keep up with your lifestyle, then things can kinda dissolve. If you want to include people in high-end things, then you gotta pick up the tab. Otherwise, just lower your standards and be inclusive rather than creating divisions by each doing something separate.

Me, I make sure to be inclusive. I drive to his house in a $200K car, but then we just go someplace in his $25K Ford, I don't just drive separate. When we fly, I sit coach right next to them whether it's the best flight or not. If I want to take a private car, I'll either pay for it and tell them to just pay for what they would have by taking a group shuttle, or I'll just take the group shuttle with them.

At the end of the day, I'd rather be rich and never get the chance to spend my money with people I like than be rich and do fancy shit by myself and separate all the time. I think that goes a long was in maintaining relationships across all facets of wealth and life.

We adhere somewhat closely to what you say. That said it is a bit more tricky than that. Let's say for example that you invite someone in vacation with you like family. And then they turn around and say they would rather get the cash for something else. That's a bit extreme though. But lets say than after they ask for some help for something and you tell them no, then they might not understand at all...

When one side of a relation has more money than other, sadly there is always a tension because basically one party has a decision power that the other doesn't.

SciFrog:

We adhere somewhat closely to what you say. That said it is a bit more tricky than that. Let's say for example that you invite someone in vacation with you like family. And then they turn around and say they would rather get the cash for something else. That's a bit extreme though. But lets say than after they ask for some help for something and you tell them no, then they might not understand at all...

When one side of a relation has more money than other, sadly there is always a tension because basically one party has a decision power that the other doesn't.

Very true. We usually have this issue the "other way around". Meaning: Most of our friends cannot afford what we can afford, especially during vacations we do together. This is why we try to invite them along with us when we rent a boat or do something special but it isn't always easy for us because we are wealthy but not super rich, so we cannot just invite them to a show and pay a thousand bucks for them, so they can join. However, we usually pay the restaurant bill whenever we go and they pay for drinks at the pool or some food at food courts (malls) and so on, so there is no real problem. When you know people for a longer period of time, you can learn to work around these things...or we just aren't friends anymore.  Luckily, my best friend (who is not very wealthy but also not poor) isn't interested in cars or gadgets, so there is no envy or such things. He is 60, we usually talk about politics, family, culture and many many other things, so everything is just fine. 

I enjoy it immensely when I'm invited on a yacht or to a nice vacation house for a weekend or to drive a nice car, no problem with that and I am very thankful. However, I was invited to a car event once which involved paying a fee of 6000 EUR...per person, so I declined. Not worth it and I didn't want to tell my friend that I cannot really afford it or actually want to afford it (for a two day trip, just to drive an exotic for fun). One reason I avoid accepting invitations to such events because they usually cost a lot of money (at least 3-5k for a weekend). Sad but true.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

SciFrog:

We adhere somewhat closely to what you say. That said it is a bit more tricky than that. Let's say for example that you invite someone in vacation with you like family. And then they turn around and say they would rather get the cash for something else. That's a bit extreme though. But lets say than after they ask for some help for something and you tell them no, then they might not understand at all...

When one side of a relation has more money than other, sadly there is always a tension because basically one party has a decision power that the other doesn't.

Haha. That would never happen because the point of inviting someone on vacation isn't to give them money, it's to take a vacation together. If I said "Here's a vacation for just you and your family" and they said they'd rather have cash to do a whole bunch of smaller things, I'd totally understand that much like if I said "here's a $20K watch for your birthday" and they said they'd rather just spend $20K on other stuff.

I think the asking for help side of things comes down to choosing your friends wisely in the first place. I really never find myself being asked for unreasonable things in the first place. I've been asked for loans before, sometimes I've said yes, sometimes I've said no. I always offer to help them get a loan (assuming I'm sure they can pay it back or it makes sense,) but I also really never get asked for crazy loans or anything anyway. No one has ever asked me to  invest in any new business idea or something like that.

My closest friend is definitely in the red on his "loans." They're small though, thousands maybe at most, and I consider his well-being far more important. People screw up, make some bad decisions, but oh well. He's always there when needed in whatever capacity he can be and a very good person. He's sober 3-4 years now I think. Not sure he's any more financially responsible LOL, but he's healthier and doing his own small business that he likes better than working some regular job. Well worth the money I may or may not lose lending him from time to time. And it's not like he's never paid me back. He's paid me back a lot, just not as often as he hasn't LOL.

One thing that I really appreciate though is that he's never asked for my portion of the bill on anything. If he pays for something, that's it. It's never "here's your half." When I'd take a road trip, I don't pay for gas in his car, is he buys movie tickets I don't give me $10 for mine. When we hit the drive thru at Starbucks, he pay for mine and doesn't say anything. Sometimes I Paypal him $4 right then, other times I don't even think about it.

These are the kinds of things that lead me to believe that there is no financial strains or awkwardness in my relationships. Small things like this go a long way.