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    Re: 997TT vs Z06 vs F430 from an owners perspective.

    Quote:
    devo said:
    The joke is the post. I would expect pretty much what he writes, but, I didn't buy the tt to race at the strip and I'm not concerned that it loses a couple of seconds at the track. Not that I believe that entirely. (But if it's so, so be it.) I bought the tt for it's refinement, quality, torque, speed etc...
    To say that the overboost in the mid-range (the most useable part of a street car's power band) is a waste, is, well... ridiculous.
    Are we going to start this again. Give me a f...ing break. If he wanted a race car then he should have bought one. The Z wins in most, maybe all races... kudos to Chevy. I'll still take the tt, or even the F car. \
    In the end it's still a f...ing Chevy; crude.



    A bit sensitive, are we???

    Re: 997TT vs Z06 vs F430 from an owners perspective.

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    crazi4speed said:
    Come on guys stop whining...its enough of whining from your porsche owners..please porsches are way over priced as oppose to a ferrari..and isnt all that anymore..the Z06 will walk all over any porsche for now without a hitch...in straight line, from a roll in a road course, no gallardo or F430 or TT can do squot about it, its sad to see people not able to admit it, the Z06 owners admit the lack of high quality interiors, but the porsche snobs just dont want to admit as a sports car Z06 is better..period..

    Who the fluck cares if you can drive a sports car in the winter, in winter/snow i want to have my @$$ in a protective SUV..so it dont matter, I have seen several Z06 drive in snows, so for the lack of your driving skills dont blame the Z06, I have never had a AWD car in winter and we get enough snow here and I have never had a problem..

    Seriously guys grow up..admit that nothing under 450k can touch the Z06 and the Blue Devil will rape any car under the all mightly bugatti or Saleen S7 TT...

    For you to get awesome interiors, I am sure one of the tuners who regularly add high quality interiors to Porsches, Audis', Maybachs can do the same for the Z06 for a lot less, then I doubt any of the whiners can complain..

    and for somee of you to say that GMs time was in accurate is so kiddish, i am sure you guys must be old , pretty old and talk like babies..you [censored] size wouldnt decrease if you admit that Z06 is truely a better performer than the TT, F430, Gallardo..

    The exact same arguments you guys have for the Z06, the F430 and gallardo owners have for the TT...and you guys call BS then also..please be car fanatics and not some one insignificant car fan..the Z06 is no over rated car, as of now its the greatest car made south of a murcielago..



    Perhaps Corvetteforums.com would suit you better.
    The C6Z is plastic, no matter how it performs. Also, on a winding road eith less than perfect surface (anywhere off the track), the C6Z will be watching the TT's rear, as it vanishes over the crest.
    Porsche overpriced, but Ferrari isn't? Last I've heard, you lived somewhere near Mexico, not in Europe. What do you know about quality anyway? I don't want to have to modify a car when I buy it, just to make it bearable to sit in. You buy a TT and you get a great all-rounder with great quality materials and finish. You just don't get that in a Corvette. I know, because I considered one.
    Again, if you don't like it here, you can go to Corvetteforums and tell all your friends how you taunted Porsche enthusiasts. It will suit you much better. Until then, keep driving that Ferrari-wannabe Corvette.



    "Last I've heard, you lived somewhere near Mexico, not in Europe. What do you know about quality anyway?" Crash, I have said it before and I will say it again...you are a total and complete a**hole!!! And please don't give me your crap about getting personal after the statement that you just made. Most people on this forum are biased, and that is just fine. But the difference is that you are an uninformed jerk!

    Re: 997TT vs Z06 vs F430 from an owners perspective.

    Think about this.

    Neither the 997s or F430s race in the same class as a
    Corvette. The Porsches and F430s run in slower classes
    in both amateur show room stock and improved and also in professional racing.

    Why? They are slower and cant come close to making the same lap times. Then there is the gratuitous Porsche Cup - where they race themselves! LOL. How bogus. The dream is over for Porsche for the time being.

    Weidiking has turned the company into a maker of high speed ladies handbags. He is neutering the brand and must go!
    Porsche is very profitable but has no balls!

    Nicer interiors yes. softer to drive yes. Winners No.

    Porsche's lack of recent racing success and production
    cars too slow to be competitive on race tracks will soon be a feature article in this publication!
    Link:failure magazine

    Where's that '07 SL order guide at?

    Re: 997TT vs Z06 vs F430 from an owners perspective.

    If a Porsche owner doesn't track their car, or street race their car, why would slower lap times bother them??

    My '02 Turbo would lap slower than the C6Z, but that in no way changes what I love about my car. Why would it?? And my Turbo being a "winner" had nothing to do with why I bought it.

    Why can't people like their Porsches for what they are? If Porsche was factory racing against the Vette...and winning, what would you do if the Vette started winning....run out and sell your Porsche because you all of a sudden didnt like your car anymore?

    Re: 997TT vs Z06 vs F430 from an owners perspective.

    Quote:
    RonnieC6Z said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    crazi4speed said:
    Come on guys stop whining...its enough of whining from your porsche owners..please porsches are way over priced as oppose to a ferrari..and isnt all that anymore..the Z06 will walk all over any porsche for now without a hitch...in straight line, from a roll in a road course, no gallardo or F430 or TT can do squot about it, its sad to see people not able to admit it, the Z06 owners admit the lack of high quality interiors, but the porsche snobs just dont want to admit as a sports car Z06 is better..period..

    Who the fluck cares if you can drive a sports car in the winter, in winter/snow i want to have my @$$ in a protective SUV..so it dont matter, I have seen several Z06 drive in snows, so for the lack of your driving skills dont blame the Z06, I have never had a AWD car in winter and we get enough snow here and I have never had a problem..

    Seriously guys grow up..admit that nothing under 450k can touch the Z06 and the Blue Devil will rape any car under the all mightly bugatti or Saleen S7 TT...

    For you to get awesome interiors, I am sure one of the tuners who regularly add high quality interiors to Porsches, Audis', Maybachs can do the same for the Z06 for a lot less, then I doubt any of the whiners can complain..

    and for somee of you to say that GMs time was in accurate is so kiddish, i am sure you guys must be old , pretty old and talk like babies..you [censored] size wouldnt decrease if you admit that Z06 is truely a better performer than the TT, F430, Gallardo..

    The exact same arguments you guys have for the Z06, the F430 and gallardo owners have for the TT...and you guys call BS then also..please be car fanatics and not some one insignificant car fan..the Z06 is no over rated car, as of now its the greatest car made south of a murcielago..



    Perhaps Corvetteforums.com would suit you better.
    The C6Z is plastic, no matter how it performs. Also, on a winding road eith less than perfect surface (anywhere off the track), the C6Z will be watching the TT's rear, as it vanishes over the crest.
    Porsche overpriced, but Ferrari isn't? Last I've heard, you lived somewhere near Mexico, not in Europe. What do you know about quality anyway? I don't want to have to modify a car when I buy it, just to make it bearable to sit in. You buy a TT and you get a great all-rounder with great quality materials and finish. You just don't get that in a Corvette. I know, because I considered one.
    Again, if you don't like it here, you can go to Corvetteforums and tell all your friends how you taunted Porsche enthusiasts. It will suit you much better. Until then, keep driving that Ferrari-wannabe Corvette.



    "Last I've heard, you lived somewhere near Mexico, not in Europe. What do you know about quality anyway?" Crash, I have said it before and I will say it again...you are a total and complete a**hole!!! And please don't give me your crap about getting personal after the statement that you just made. Most people on this forum are biased, and that is just fine. But the difference is that you are an uninformed jerk!



    Won't you ever shuit up? The Energizer bunny has nothing on your big mouth...

    Re: 997TT vs Z06 vs F430 from an owners perspective.

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Think about this.

    Neither the 997s or F430s race in the same class as a
    Corvette. The Porsches and F430s run in slower classes
    in both amateur show room stock and improved and also in professional racing.

    Why? They are slower and cant come close to making the same lap times. Then there is the gratuitous Porsche Cup - where they race themselves! LOL. How bogus. The dream is over for Porsche for the time being.

    Weidiking has turned the company into a maker of high speed ladies handbags. He is neutering the brand and must go!
    Porsche is very profitable but has no balls!

    Nicer interiors yes. softer to drive yes. Winners No.

    Porsche's lack of recent racing success and production
    cars too slow to be competitive on race tracks will soon be a feature article in this publication!
    Link:failure magazine

    Where's that '07 SL order guide at?



    LOL...Jim you made my day!

    Just try to explain why Chevrolet isn't competing in HIGHER classes and why they nearly got beaten by an Aston Martin in Le Mans.
    Oh and try to explain why a FACTORY team is competing in classes meant for PRIVATE teams.

    edit:Did Chevrolet recommended/approved winter tires for the Z06?

    Re: 997TT vs Z06 vs F430 from an owners perspective.

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    RonnieC6Z said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    crazi4speed said:
    Come on guys stop whining...its enough of whining from your porsche owners..please porsches are way over priced as oppose to a ferrari..and isnt all that anymore..the Z06 will walk all over any porsche for now without a hitch...in straight line, from a roll in a road course, no gallardo or F430 or TT can do squot about it, its sad to see people not able to admit it, the Z06 owners admit the lack of high quality interiors, but the porsche snobs just dont want to admit as a sports car Z06 is better..period..

    Who the fluck cares if you can drive a sports car in the winter, in winter/snow i want to have my @$$ in a protective SUV..so it dont matter, I have seen several Z06 drive in snows, so for the lack of your driving skills dont blame the Z06, I have never had a AWD car in winter and we get enough snow here and I have never had a problem..

    Seriously guys grow up..admit that nothing under 450k can touch the Z06 and the Blue Devil will rape any car under the all mightly bugatti or Saleen S7 TT...

    For you to get awesome interiors, I am sure one of the tuners who regularly add high quality interiors to Porsches, Audis', Maybachs can do the same for the Z06 for a lot less, then I doubt any of the whiners can complain..

    and for somee of you to say that GMs time was in accurate is so kiddish, i am sure you guys must be old , pretty old and talk like babies..you [censored] size wouldnt decrease if you admit that Z06 is truely a better performer than the TT, F430, Gallardo..

    The exact same arguments you guys have for the Z06, the F430 and gallardo owners have for the TT...and you guys call BS then also..please be car fanatics and not some one insignificant car fan..the Z06 is no over rated car, as of now its the greatest car made south of a murcielago..



    Perhaps Corvetteforums.com would suit you better.
    The C6Z is plastic, no matter how it performs. Also, on a winding road eith less than perfect surface (anywhere off the track), the C6Z will be watching the TT's rear, as it vanishes over the crest.
    Porsche overpriced, but Ferrari isn't? Last I've heard, you lived somewhere near Mexico, not in Europe. What do you know about quality anyway? I don't want to have to modify a car when I buy it, just to make it bearable to sit in. You buy a TT and you get a great all-rounder with great quality materials and finish. You just don't get that in a Corvette. I know, because I considered one.
    Again, if you don't like it here, you can go to Corvetteforums and tell all your friends how you taunted Porsche enthusiasts. It will suit you much better. Until then, keep driving that Ferrari-wannabe Corvette.



    "Last I've heard, you lived somewhere near Mexico, not in Europe. What do you know about quality anyway?" Crash, I have said it before and I will say it again...you are a total and complete a**hole!!! And please don't give me your crap about getting personal after the statement that you just made. Most people on this forum are biased, and that is just fine. But the difference is that you are an uninformed jerk!



    Won't you ever shuit up? The Energizer bunny has nothing on your big mouth...



    No, I won't ever "shuit" up....not as long as your big mouth is open spouting biased and completely idiotic comments.

    Re: 997TT vs Z06 vs F430 from an owners perspective.

    Ronnie and Crash

    Maybe you should both shut up.

    Ronnie - Have you ever owned a Porsche?

    Crash - Have you ever owned a Corvette?

    You guys thouroughly enjoy p!$$ing each other off.

    Re: 997TT vs Z06 vs F430 from an owners perspective.

    Quote:
    Walter said:
    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Think about this.

    Neither the 997s or F430s race in the same class as a
    Corvette. The Porsches and F430s run in slower classes
    in both amateur show room stock and improved and also in professional racing.

    Why? They are slower and cant come close to making the same lap times. Then there is the gratuitous Porsche Cup - where they race themselves! LOL. How bogus. The dream is over for Porsche for the time being.

    Weidiking has turned the company into a maker of high speed ladies handbags. He is neutering the brand and must go!
    Porsche is very profitable but has no balls!

    Nicer interiors yes. softer to drive yes. Winners No.

    Porsche's lack of recent racing success and production
    cars too slow to be competitive on race tracks will soon be a feature article in this publication!
    Link:failure magazine

    Where's that '07 SL order guide at?



    LOL...Jim you made my day!

    Just try to explain why Chevrolet isn't competing in HIGHER classes and why they nearly got beaten by an Aston Martin in Le Mans.
    Oh and try to explain why a FACTORY team is competing in classes meant for PRIVATE teams.

    edit:Did Chevrolet recommended/approved winter tires for the Z06?



    Walter I am glad you had some fun.

    The class Corvette and Aston compete in is the Highest class for production based cars. If you want a Chevy in
    the LMPS class call Lola and they will build you one. In fact you might see one in '09 IF the rules people will allow Chevy's new 7 liter DOHC engine to compete.

    Factory Teams and private Teams? Explain Team Penske and Porsche then. Who sleeps with who?? LOL

    Snow Tires. Winter Tires. Money Tires! I too had fallen for Porsches 997TT "winter" propganda. Yes with the Winter Tires the 997TT is a all season sports car. True..but at a price!

    The N rated winter tires for the 997TT cost 4500 Euros a set!!!! according to RC. And they will only be good for ONE season!

    For $4500 Euros you can buy a decent used car for winter and not care if Frau Kartoffel slides into it at a icey intersection. I give you a choice....A perfect used VW Lupo or 4 rubber tires good for ONE season!!! I am sorry but the "winter" tires for a Porsche 997 Turbo are ridiculously priced! Tires for a Airbus cost less per each!

    Corvette Z06 "Winter" Tires. None exist - Thank God the wallet is safe from Tire companies!!!! Instead - put a 40kg sack of concrete into the trunk ...like the BMW manual SHOULD advise 3'rs to do !

    Viva Luxembourg!


    Re: 997TT vs Z06 vs F430 from an owners perspective.

    Quote:
    Dock (Atlanta) said:
    If a Porsche owner doesn't track their car, or street race their car, why would slower lap times bother them??

    My '02 Turbo would lap slower than the C6Z, but that in no way changes what I love about my car. Why would it?? And my Turbo being a "winner" had nothing to do with why I bought it.

    Why can't people like their Porsches for what they are? If Porsche was factory racing against the Vette...and winning, what would you do if the Vette started winning....run out and sell your Porsche because you all of a sudden didnt like your car anymore?



    Dock - Porsche's reputation and performance was built from its racing victories. And technology from that filtering to the production cars is what made them special. Without that you just have a fast pretty car that is nice. But thats all!

    For the money asked and the profit they make, I expect a product that continues in the tradition that made the company and its cars special. Otherwise might as well just buy a SL or a Lexus 500 coupe deluxus barfus.

    Don't get me wrong, I prefer rear engine and midengine cars
    and feeling the "Porscheness" in the handling and controls,
    BUT, I do will not accept (you would never have guessed this coming ) and be satisfied with a un successful and synthtic, derivative feeling Porsche just because it says Porsche and they say I should accept such near Kirsch!

    There are no second place winners in gunfights or sports cars.

    Re: 997TT vs Z06 vs F430 from an owners perspective.

    Note that the Corvette and Porsche (not turbo) do race in the same class it's in World Challange. They race with Vipers, factory GM Caddies as well. The latest 24 hours race in Eurpoe was won by a Maseratti MC12, beating the Vettes and Astons. I think the Astons beat the Vettes at Sebring last year. The 430 beat the 997 earlier this year and Panzo beat the 997 this year at LeMans I believe ending the longest winning streak in racing. Nobody has invested more money than GM in the Corvette racing program and it shows, they have a splendid record but do lose. Look at the results without the factory backing and its nowhere near as good as the factory Vetts record in American LeMans. Why? Money wins. Porsche's only full factory effort is the Spyder in P2 actually winning a race overall 1 & 2 against the mighty Audis. Porsche has won outright LeMans, Sebring, 24 hours of Daytona more times than anyone. I don't know if GM has ever won any of these races outright. The 911's have actually won outright twice at Daytona and once at LeMans and they were in the lower GT class...I don't believe any one other Porsche can claim this. To me this is what's so special about Porsche, the legacy of a small company agaist the likes of much bigger companies competeing in the top racing levels. All the cars everyone is talking about are great sports cars, but to me Porsche is about the company and it's legacy in sports car racing. That's why I have drive a Porsche 993 and have a 997TT on order. Sure I could get a Z06, or a 430, or a Lambo but I want a Posche 911 series...they are special cars and I know this. Heck even if the 350Z is faster in a certain area that wouldn't change anything. The 911 has defied "experts" for 40 years, with it's engine hanging out behind the rear, and it still wins a majory of the races it's in. It's also one of the most versital sports cars racing in many different classes.

    So Vetts are great, 430 are great, Lambos are great but the 911 is special to me. If you haven't taken the time to appreciate the 911 you might not understand this. BTW I have owned to Vetts and they were great cars. So lets all quit bashing each other an move on with constructive topics...hopefully about Porsche since this is a Porsche site.

    Mike

    Re: 997TT vs Z06 vs F430 from an owners perspective.

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:

    Walter I am glad you had some fun.

    The class Corvette and Aston compete in is the Highest class for production based cars. If you want a Chevy in
    the LMPS class call Lola and they will build you one. In fact you might see one in '09 IF the rules people will allow Chevy's new 7 liter DOHC engine to compete.

    Factory Teams and private Teams? Explain Team Penske and Porsche then. Who sleeps with who?? LOL

    Snow Tires. Winter Tires. Money Tires! I too had fallen for Porsches 997TT "winter" propganda. Yes with the Winter Tires the 997TT is a all season sports car. True..but at a price!

    The N rated winter tires for the 997TT cost 4500 Euros a set!!!! according to RC. And they will only be good for ONE season!

    For $4500 Euros you can buy a decent used car for winter and not care if Frau Kartoffel slides into it at a icey intersection. I give you a choice....A perfect used VW Lupo or 4 rubber tires good for ONE season!!! I am sorry but the "winter" tires for a Porsche 997 Turbo are ridiculously priced! Tires for a Airbus cost less per each!

    Corvette Z06 Winter Tires. None exist - Thank God the wallet is safe from Tire companies!!!! Instead - put a 40kg sack of concrete into the trunk ...like the BMW manual SHOULD advise 3'rs to do !

    Viva Luxembourg!





    Highest class for production based cars...sounds great for a small meaningless class.
    Do you know that if it's build by Lola it isn't a Chevrolet?
    It's not really Aston.It's more a Prodrive,the same Prodrive that is annihilated by Citroen Xsaras in WRC.

    The LMP2 that Porsche build was meant for private teams.Porsche decided to work with Penske for the development of the RS Spyder because Penske is a private team.

    Winter tires are mandatory where I live.That means that if your car doesn't have wintertires in the 5 coldest months of the year you will have some problems with the police and insurance company(in fact they can tell you to leave your car at home as long as you don't have wintertires).It's the same in Germany and other nothern countries and it's going to be he same in some parts of France.

    4500 euros seems to be a bit too much...I saw wintertires recommeneded by Porsche far cheaper(like 1000 euros,my sister got her wintertires for 800 euros and it's for a Renault Laguna).

    Buying a Porsche and then buy a 4500 euros used Lupo...riiight.

    And before I forgot :
    14 Makes and Team World Championship
    8 Long Distance World Championship
    3 IMSA Supercar-Series
    6 German Racing Championship
    20 Daytona 24 Hour
    15 IMSA Supercar-Race
    16 Le Mans 24 Hour
    4 Rallye Monte Carlo
    2 Paris-Dakar Rallye
    1 Formula 1 victory

    TAG-Porsche engine in McLaren cars :
    3 Formula 1 Driver World Championship
    2 Formula 1 Constructor World Championship
    25 Formula 1 victories (1984, 12 wins; 1985, 6 wins; 1986, 4 wins; 1987, 3 wins)

    These are only major victories in motorsports.I think I could find some class wins...oh and the RS Spyder already has an overall win.Also the Porsche Cup exists for more than 20 years now.

    Re: 997TT vs Z06 vs F430 from an owners perspective.

    Maybe the new LMP rules will allow the return of the 917/30 engine. 5.4L twin turbo with 1100 to 1500hp. Remember what the 917/30 did to the Can/Am series, so I don't think they will allow this. Remember when Porsche decided they needed to win LeMans outright back in the late 90's to celebrate their 50th anniversary..the 911 Evo won beating the mighty Mercedes CLKs.

    Speaking of rules, look at what Formula 1 did to the TAG engine after Porsche owned Formula 1, banned turbos. Porsche then moved to Indy and ran these with alcohol when they developed an Indy car, when A J Foyt saw how much HP they were getting with the TAGon alcohol he had the rules changed as the car was being shipped over to race. Eventually they restricted the engine so much to make it non competative.

    IMO Porsche could win any race series they want against all comers if they decided to invest (history has shown this to be true). I believe they have something planned to try and win LeMans with the P2 Spyder and unseat Audi P1 R10. Audi has won LeMans since 2000 I believe and maybe Porsche is getting worried about their overall win record. Would be nice to see someone challange Audi, especially if it's Porsche!!

    Mike

    Mike

    Re: 997TT vs Z06 vs F430 from an owners perspective.

    Walter,

    How many Sebring outright wins....something like 9. I remember the 956 and 962s. They would spit 10 foot flames and light up the brakes in the hairpin. THis was fun to see and hear!

    Mike

    Re: 997TT vs Z06 vs F430 from an owners perspective.

    Quote:
    mawyatt said:
    Walter,

    How many Sebring outright wins....something like 9. I remember the 956 and 962s. They would spit 10 foot flames and light up the brakes in the hairpin. THis was fun to see and hear!

    Mike



    17 wins,13 consecutive wins.

    The list I posted was from another forum.There's another one on Porsche's website: http://www.porsche.com/usa/eventsandracing/motorsport/philosophy/history/victories/

    Re: 997TT vs Z06 vs F430 from an owners perspective.

    Walter,

    Thanks...wow impressive. The 2 Dakar wins were in the jacked up 959 AWD with small NA 911 engines I believe, I think Porsche did this just for fun!

    Mike

    Re: 997TT vs Z06 vs F430 from an owners perspective.

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:Dock - Porsche's reputation and performance was built from its racing victories. And technology from that filtering to the production cars is what made them special.



    Today, manufacturers don't need "racing" to validate technologies. In the past they didn't really have testing protocols, equipment, and technologies that allowed them to test outside of "racing". Today they do. As a matter of fact they can instrument the car better in a non-race environment than they can in a race environment...and there is nothing different about driving a Porsche hard on the track in a non-race environment versus driving it just as hard in a race environment.

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:For the money asked and the profit they make, I expect a product that continues in the tradition that made the company and its cars special.



    Porsche could produce that car if they wanted to...without racing. The 997 Turbo we have today is NOT a result of the company not racing, it is a result of marketing. You have to get to the root cause of the issue here. Porsche has the ability, knowledge, and technology to build a much different 997 Turbo if they wanted to - and racing has nothing to do with it. For those who want to be nostalgic about the past, go right ahead. But don't think racing is some holy grail through which all technology passes.

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:Don't get me wrong, I prefer rear engine and midengine cars
    and feeling the "Porscheness" in the handling and controls,
    BUT, I do will not accept (you would never have guessed this coming ) and be satisfied with a un successful and synthtic, derivative feeling Porsche just because it says Porsche and they say I should accept such near Kirsch!



    Then your beef is with Porsche marketing. It isn't the lack of racing that has given us the 997 Turbo.

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:There are no second place winners in gunfights or sports cars.



    Nice try, but driving a sports car around on public roads is not the same as a gunfight. And since there are no winners on the street, there is no second place to be worried about...

    Re: 997TT vs Z06 vs F430 from an owners perspective.

    I don't normally lurk around the TT forum, but since I'm here...it just seems to me that there are at least a couple of classes of folks who buy sports cars -- those who are after the latest objective performer and those that are looking from marque-specific qualities. The former would buy a Hyundai or Kia if they suddenly decided to build their version of a Z06 or GT3, and they probably could. It's all about money and talent; those companies certainly have resources and capable engineers for such a feat. The problem with this view is that the car is almost immediately obsolete, because something better will be out in 6 months or a year. In the later category are those who like specific elements in their driving experience, and this group includes the Vette owners who bought their cars in the late 70s and early/mid 80s. In those days, Vettes were not great performers, but they did have unique qualities -- aesthetics, V8 sound, etc. I don't criticize those drivers who love their cars and I don't get the bottom-line attitude as their flagship has now ascended to the performance throne. Nobody bought 356s because they were fast, and most Vettes over the years haven't handled worth a damn. But, these cars have had their own interesting identities and that's what people have loved about them. There will always be faster cars. This year's standard will be a joke compared to the minivans of 2020. Just enjoy your dream. Gosh.

    Re: 997TT vs Z06 vs F430 from an owners perspective.

    Dock your last retort is spot on, but for a different reason than you might have meant. The M96/97 engined 997's
    are not useable for racing, be it amateur part time or casual track days. The engines lube system cant take the g's.

    Due to The lack of a real dry sump you cannot use R compound tires or you might get oil starvation. Such a
    caveat was unheard of before the 996 engines. So owners could use their cars in casual track competition without
    potential risk to their engines from lack of lubrication.

    As for the Turbo. Its just too heavy. Even the new GT3 is too heavy. Their power to weight ratios are below the competition.

    Porsche used to be a winning deal for customers right off the showroom floor: the best tourer and best to use on a race track for casual comptition days with just bolting on a set of wheels with R compound tires or slicks. Now its not. Thats the whole point.

    Now for the latter it is in second place and that is not where Porsche should be. Its completely unacceptable, a step downwards and a sell out of what made the brand what it is.

    Re: 997TT vs Z06 vs F430 from an owners perspective.

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:As for the Turbo. Its just too heavy. Even the new GT3 is too heavy.



    Talk to Porsche marketing. They aren't heavy because Porsche "doesn't race".

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:Porsche used to be a winning deal for customers right off the showroom floor: the best tourer and best to use on a race track for casual comptition days with just bolting on a set of wheels with R compound tires or slicks. Now its not. Thats the whole point.




    Again, take this up with Porsche marketing.

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:Now for the latter it is in second place and that is not where Porsche should be. Its completely unacceptable, a step downwards and a sell out of what made the brand what it is.



    I don't consider Porsche in "second place" in any way, shape, or form. The Turbo is a STREET car, not a track car. Porsche even excludes warranty coverage if you track the car. In terms of what car out there today is the best all-around street car, the 996 and 997 Turbo just might be the best. They are to me at least, so there is no "second place" about it.

    I don't consider my car inferior in any way if it comes up seconds (or less) short on some track event...I didn't buy it for the track. I did buy it for performance, but it's performance FAR exceeds my minimum requirements (which are pretty high).

    It seems you're more worried about the marquis and bragging rights - I'm worried about how the car actually performs during real world driving.

    Re: 997TT vs Z06 vs F430 from an owners perspective.

    Quote:
    jlr said: In the later category are those who like specific elements in their driving experience, and this group includes the Vette owners who bought their cars in the late 70s and early/mid 80s. In those days, Vettes were not great performers, but they did have unique qualities -- aesthetics, V8 sound, etc.



    Then Vette guys should easily understand why Porsche guys love their cars..a love that has nothing to do with "who's the fastest" or "who might be a little faster on some track".

    Quote:
    jlr said:I don't criticize those drivers who love their cars...



    I don't either. I don't understand those that have the attitudes I described in my post above.

    Like what you will, but don't think there is a "best" for all people.

    Re: 997TT vs Z06 vs F430 from an owners perspective.

    I don't go shopping in my Lola. Terrible on the street. Terror on a track, however . Just reached 2k miles on my new 997tt. Love it.

    Re: 997TT vs Z06 vs F430 from an owners perspective.

    I shop for road and track. Form and function. Function as a sports car doing sports car events is what sports cars are all about to those of us who like that stuff.

    You don't have to enjoy that hobby to appreciate the car. However, it is nice to have the car be superior at both. That used to be the core of Porsche's promise as a brand.

    Re: 997TT vs Z06 vs F430 from an owners perspective.

    In the last sports car event I attended, my 93 RSA performed admirably among a field of much newer machinery (included later model Vettes who had the courtesy to signal the side for me to pass on). A 997S, despite all of the warranty disclaimers, etc. would have performed much much better. I know because I had one. There aren't many owners who can create an oil starvation with that car, from what I've heard. Point taken though, Jim. Porsche certainly could give us a bit more hardware for the money. It's the LSD issue that irritates me. For most of us -- even track day enthusiasts -- this is still a bit academic. The cars they are making now have absurdly high limits, and are incredibly precise, whatever purity and relative performance they've lost.

    Re: 997TT vs Z06 vs F430 from an owners perspective.

    Quote:
    forhamilton said:
    Ronnie and Crash

    Maybe you should both shut up.

    Ronnie - Have you ever owned a Porsche?

    Crash - Have you ever owned a Corvette?

    You guys thouroughly enjoy p!$$ing each other off.



    forhamilton, I've always been a fan of the Corvette, since I was a kid and I considered the new C6Z. However, it's people like the other guy you mentione in the same post that just make you want to dismiss the Corvette outright, with constant name calling, juvenile outbursts and whatnot. Generally, it seems that there are several C6Z owners here who are true enthusiasts and aren't limited by their taste. Ronnie just isn't one of them and will continue attacking no matter what I say. Doesn't really matter, though. Gives me opportunity to shoot him down over and over again .

    Re: 997TT vs Z06 vs F430 from an owners perspective.

    Quote:
    forhamilton said:
    Ronnie and Crash

    Maybe you should both shut up.

    Ronnie - Have you ever owned a Porsche?

    Crash - Have you ever owned a Corvette?

    You guys thouroughly enjoy p!$$ing each other off.



    To answer your question...yes I have owned Porsches (plural).

    Re: 997TT vs Z06 vs F430 from an owners perspective.

    Porsche is definitely not the number one performer out of the show room as it used to be, but they are allot more reliable and forgiving in terms of daily use. I was on two waiting lists for the 997TT when I purchase my C2Scab. Even-though the C2Scab cannot compare to the TT in terms of performance, after driving this car for a couple of months I can't seem to make the swap to the TT. The C2Scab gives me everything I have been looking for in a sports car and more. This experience has taught me that buying a street/sports car is more than just performance (for me). It's about the feeling you get when you're driving, the connection you feel with the car, it's reliability, comfort, and thought out (evolved) design!!!

    Re: 997TT vs Z06 vs F430 from an owners perspective.

    Quote:
    RonnieC6Z said:
    Quote:
    forhamilton said:
    Ronnie and Crash

    Maybe you should both shut up.

    Ronnie - Have you ever owned a Porsche?

    Crash - Have you ever owned a Corvette?

    You guys thouroughly enjoy p!$$ing each other off.



    To answer your question...yes I have owned Porsches (plural).



    Which is even more reason to ask: why the heck do you dislike them so much? Also, why do you keep forcing your views upon everybody else? Some people here just prefer a well-balanced road car as opposed to an all-out performance vehicle which is the C6Z. It also goes the other way around, which obviously works in your case, so why the need for constant bashing?

    Re: 997TT vs Z06 vs F430 from an owners perspective.

    Quote:
    rhino said:The C2Scab gives me everything I have been looking for in a sports car and more. This experience has taught me that buying a street/sports car is more than just performance (for me). It's about the feeling you get when you're driving, the connection you feel with the car, it's reliability, comfort, and thought out (evolved) design!!!



    Well said.

    Re: 997TT vs Z06 vs F430 from an owners perspective.

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:You don't have to enjoy that hobby to appreciate the car. However, it is nice to have the car be superior at both. That used to be the core of Porsche's promise as a brand.



    So over the years, what Porsches have been superior (superior in ALL performance measures) to Vettes in terms of street performance?

    And Porsche use to "promise" that their cars would be superior at the track and on the street?

     
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