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    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    'The Corvette Z06 is the best example of this culture's idea of a sports car - big block with lots of muscle. I personally prefer the Turbo but let's all get along, shall we.'

    +++ I agree with your preference and sentiments, and I am happy that the Z06 is giving Porsche a wake-up call. More power and less weight is always welcome.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    RonnieC6Z said:
    Quote:
    polo said:
    It's funny that it is mostly americans comparing the Z06 to porsche. Here in europe we hardly consider it as an option to porsche...
    Because porsche is so much more than just performance...

    Imagine how much horspower could get porsche with a V8 7.0 liter engine. Certainly much more than 500 HP.

    It is the first time GM makes something performance wise with the competition. Took them long enough...But they needed many liters to get it on par.

    Any how the Z06 is a great car at a great price, however, it is hardly comparble to a 997 TT except performance wise.



    Let me give you and idea as to how truly clueless you people are when you say that, except for performance, how the Z just cannot compare to the Porsche. I am very much into detailing cars. I detail my Z and also my buddys 05 996 Turbo S. I know every nook and cranny on both cars. The fit and finish on the exterior of the Turbo is not any better than the Z. Secondly, he has had 3 Turbo Porsches in the last 7 years and they have been in the shop constantly...not only for mechanical and electronic problems, but also for rattles. My Vettes (7 of them) have been trouble free. The Z has 12K miles and has had ZERO problems. A service consists of a $90.00 oil change. Granted the Porsche has a nicer interior, but for a MINIMUM of a $50,000.00 price difference, it should! I can have my interior completely redone for 5-10k and it would be on par with a Ferrari interior! And please don't give me this crap about what a 7 litre motor would do in a Porsche! That is like me saying what a 1100 HP motor would do in a Vette. How many of you have ever driven a 06 Z, muchless any Vette? I HAVE OWNED 911's! They were nothing but trouble. They offered ZERO excitement compared to my Vettes. If you like a Porsche more than a Vette...fine...I respect that. If you have no desire to ever own or drive a Vette...fine...I also respect that. But PLEASE stop with this crap about how a Porsche is SOOOO superior to a Vette in EVERY way except for performance. It is just not so, and I speak from experience!!!



    First of all I didn't that porsche was superior, I just said that it has much more to offer than a vette.
    It makes me laugh how someone can get offended with my statement. Have to be a guy owning a vette and considering it as the best car ever produced.
    Secondly, It was not an argument but a STATEMENT (big difference) . Do you know the difference?

    Thirdly, I just mention that in europe we don't even CONSIDER the corvette as an option for porsche.

    i also stated that porsche can do much much better with a 7 liter engine without any turbo look at at the carrera GT.
    If they add it turbo they could get much more out of it.
    Vette owners are really on the defensive side, probably because they believe that it is the best productuion car ever produced by an american manufacturer.

    If you're too blind to realize that they are not in the same league (except perf. wise), keep dreaming .

    Look at the sales of vettes in europe and look at porsche sales here in europe...

    As I said in the end of my previous post: Any how the Z06 is a great car at a great price, however, it is hardly comparble to a 997 TT except performance wise.

    The vette make dreams almost no one in europe, except pimps perhaps (was joking on that one), whereas porsche does.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    For Porsche to lose weight maybe they will have to go to a new engine design.

    The all up weight of the VTT 3.6 flat6 is how much?

    The 7 liter Z06 V8 and BMW 5 liter M5/6 V10 are each
    roughly 450lbs but the Z06 has more torque and more
    at lower rpms.

    Porsche has done a good job with hp/torque output for
    cc's of displacement but maybe not for powerplant weight.
    And its the weight that is costing them.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Enough of the Porsche versus Corvette luxury contest, its too funny. The winner is Porsche. Only they offer leather air vent slats and fake exhaust pipes - two very classy items! So you really cannot compare the two!

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    For Porsche to lose weight maybe they will have to go to a new engine design.

    The all up weight of the VTT 3.6 flat6 is how much?

    The 7 liter Z06 V8 and BMW 5 liter M5/6 V10 are each
    roughly 450lbs but the Z06 has more torque and more
    at lower rpms.

    Porsche has done a good job with hp/torque output for
    cc's of displacement but maybe not for powerplant weight.
    And its the weight that is costing them.



    Good point. However, not being an engineer, I don't see what there is to do, if they decide to keep the flat-6 configuration going. Sooner or later they'll at least have to switch to the flat-8 architecture.
    I have a question, though: With all the talk about the flat-6 being limited to approx. 4 litres of displacement (about 660 cc per cylinder), how can a Corvette do with 7 litres out of 8 cylinders? That makes it almost 900 ccs per cylinder and it can still rotate at 7000 rpm. So why couldn't a flat-6 be enlarged to 5 litres?
    Is it the engine layout, or anything else?

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Granted the Vette is a great performer, but my old Volvo S60 R had better steering than the C6 I drove a few months ago and felt, to me, much more entertaining. The Vette handled well, but was very boring -- like driving a really low slung Chevy truck. I was actually deflated by this experience, and had bought into some of the hype about how exciting the Vette is considering the relative bargain versus Porsches, etc. Very disappointing...and after a few years the fiberglass isn't going to be looking so good. I'd look into a Mitsubishi EVO, instead, if I'm looking for a performance bargain with a rental car interior. Apparently, that car has some entertaining qualities.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    If they go Flat-8, then it will turn into a mid-engine(that's what I've been hearing lately 3.8 or 4.0)

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    For Porsche to lose weight maybe they will have to go to a new engine design.

    The all up weight of the VTT 3.6 flat6 is how much?

    The 7 liter Z06 V8 and BMW 5 liter M5/6 V10 are each
    roughly 450lbs but the Z06 has more torque and more
    at lower rpms.

    Porsche has done a good job with hp/torque output for
    cc's of displacement but maybe not for powerplant weight.
    And its the weight that is costing them.



    Good point. However, not being an engineer, I don't see what there is to do, if they decide to keep the flat-6 configuration going. Sooner or later they'll at least have to switch to the flat-8 architecture.
    I have a question, though: With all the talk about the flat-6 being limited to approx. 4 litres of displacement (about 660 cc per cylinder), how can a Corvette do with 7 litres out of 8 cylinders? That makes it almost 900 ccs per cylinder and it can still rotate at 7000 rpm. So why couldn't a flat-6 be enlarged to 5 litres?
    Is it the engine layout, or anything else?


    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    For Porsche to lose weight maybe they will have to go to a new engine design.

    The all up weight of the VTT 3.6 flat6 is how much?

    The 7 liter Z06 V8 and BMW 5 liter M5/6 V10 are each
    roughly 450lbs but the Z06 has more torque and more
    at lower rpms.

    Porsche has done a good job with hp/torque output for
    cc's of displacement but maybe not for powerplant weight.
    And its the weight that is costing them.




    The M5 has less torque because it has 2l of displacement less than the Corvette engine.
    Compare the Corvette engine to the bigger AMG 6.2l V8.The AMG is also a lot lighter than the M5 engine.
    The Gallardo engine is also lighter than the M5 engine but it has less torque than the M5 at low revs(difference of 20-40Nm).

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    Crash said:

    Good point. However, not being an engineer, I don't see what there is to do, if they decide to keep the flat-6 configuration going. Sooner or later they'll at least have to switch to the flat-8 architecture.
    I have a question, though: With all the talk about the flat-6 being limited to approx. 4 litres of displacement (about 660 cc per cylinder), how can a Corvette do with 7 litres out of 8 cylinders? That makes it almost 900 ccs per cylinder and it can still rotate at 7000 rpm. So why couldn't a flat-6 be enlarged to 5 litres?
    Is it the engine layout, or anything else?



    I think,the biggest flat6 has 4.4l of displacement.It's was build by the tuner Koro.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    Walter said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:

    Good point. However, not being an engineer, I don't see what there is to do, if they decide to keep the flat-6 configuration going. Sooner or later they'll at least have to switch to the flat-8 architecture.
    I have a question, though: With all the talk about the flat-6 being limited to approx. 4 litres of displacement (about 660 cc per cylinder), how can a Corvette do with 7 litres out of 8 cylinders? That makes it almost 900 ccs per cylinder and it can still rotate at 7000 rpm. So why couldn't a flat-6 be enlarged to 5 litres?
    Is it the engine layout, or anything else?



    I think,the biggest flat6 has 4.4l of displacement.It's was build by the tuner Koro.



    Yes, I think they also built something like 4,6 or even 5 litres. Not sure how the engines performed, though.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    Crash said:I have a question, though: With all the talk about the flat-6 being limited to approx. 4 litres of displacement (about 660 cc per cylinder), how can a Corvette do with 7 litres out of 8 cylinders? That makes it almost 900 ccs per cylinder and it can still rotate at 7000 rpm. So why couldn't a flat-6 be enlarged to 5 litres?
    Is it the engine layout, or anything else?


    I think that Porsche relies on revving quite higher than 7k revs (even Boxster/Cayman/997 revs to 7.3k and GT3 models to 8,400). The inertial forces of the engine internals increase as the square of the piston speeds, so revving to 8,400 is WAY harder on the engine than 7k (actually 44% higher forces) and Porsche likes to have a wide margin of safety for good longevity.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    On paper the Z06 and the 997tt are quite comparable. In person, they are not - unless your only sensory endings are in your backside. That being said, the much slower Aston Vantage V8 crushes them both in terms of elegance and presence, and I would bet 9 out of 10 debutantes would prefer a ride with a sport-coated driver in the Aston than a "Members Only" jacketed gearhead in the vette/997.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    eclou said:
    On paper the Z06 and the 997tt are quite comparable. In person, they are not - unless your only sensory endings are in your backside. That being said, the much slower Aston Vantage V8 crushes them both in terms of elegance and presence, and I would bet 9 out of 10 debutantes would prefer a ride with a sport-coated driver in the Aston than a "Members Only" jacketed gearhead in the vette/997.



    Sounds like your saying you need to spend $100K+ to pic up girls, interesting rational for buying a car

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    chapse said:
    Sounds like your saying you need to spend $100K+ to pic up girls, interesting rational for buying a car



    I think some of these guys need something to pick up girls. What I am saying is my wife aka "the boss" wants the 997tt, and she always gets what she wants.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    RonnieC6Z said:
    If you like a Porsche more than a Vette...fine...I respect that. If you have no desire to ever own or drive a Vette...fine...I also respect that. But PLEASE stop with this crap about how a Porsche is SOOOO superior to a Vette in EVERY way except for performance. It is just not so, and I speak from experience!!!



    With all due respect, I love my Porsche and Rennteam , if your Chevrolet friends do not like to read/hear about what Porsche lovers are saying about its superiority vis-a-vis other marques, you do not need to participate in this forum and contribute about your opinions irregardless of whether its true or crappy.

    For heaven's sake, no one needs to be interested about your preference. Such posts are occupying unnecessary bandwidth.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    eclou said:
    my wife aka "the boss"




    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    Avantgarde said:
    Quote:
    RonnieC6Z said:
    If you like a Porsche more than a Vette...fine...I respect that. If you have no desire to ever own or drive a Vette...fine...I also respect that. But PLEASE stop with this crap about how a Porsche is SOOOO superior to a Vette in EVERY way except for performance. It is just not so, and I speak from experience!!!



    For heaven's sake, no one needs to be interested about your preference. Such posts are occupying unnecessary bandwidth.



    That about sums it up..

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    eclou said:
    On paper the Z06 and the 997tt are quite comparable. In person, they are not - unless your only sensory endings are in your backside. That being said, the much slower Aston Vantage V8 crushes them both in terms of elegance and presence, and I would bet 9 out of 10 debutantes would prefer a ride with a sport-coated driver in the Aston than a "Members Only" jacketed gearhead in the vette/997.



    Members only gearhead for 997 owners??? You go girl

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    jlr said:
    Granted the Vette is a great performer, but my old Volvo S60 R had better steering than the C6 I drove a few months ago and felt, to me, much more entertaining. The Vette handled well, but was very boring -- like driving a really low slung Chevy truck. I was actually deflated by this experience, and had bought into some of the hype about how exciting the Vette is considering the relative bargain versus Porsches, etc. Very disappointing...and after a few years the fiberglass isn't going to be looking so good. I'd look into a Mitsubishi EVO, instead, if I'm looking for a performance bargain with a rental car interior. Apparently, that car has some entertaining qualities.



    But that's not the Z06!! LOL.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    hmmmm do we have a bot in here ?

    Quote:
    DavidSF said:

    But that's not the Z06!! LOL.


    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    devo said:
    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Porsche wont make a 7 litre sports car. They simply dont have the balls to. Simple. Their focus is on the effete,
    and marketing the 911 shape when it comes to production cars.

    Look what racing classes the Porsche production cars run in - all slower than Corvette, Aston and Maserati.

    Why? Go Look!



    You keep talking speed, like that's all that matters when buying a high end STREET car. There are so many intangibles when it comes driving. Just because one might have the fastest car doesn't mean it's the most fun.



    LOL... of course. You forgot to mention that gourmet dining is not about the way that the food tastes.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    DavidSF said:
    Quote:
    jlr said:
    Granted the Vette is a great performer, but my old Volvo S60 R had better steering than the C6 I drove a few months ago and felt, to me, much more entertaining. The Vette handled well, but was very boring -- like driving a really low slung Chevy truck. I was actually deflated by this experience, and had bought into some of the hype about how exciting the Vette is considering the relative bargain versus Porsches, etc. Very disappointing...and after a few years the fiberglass isn't going to be looking so good. I'd look into a Mitsubishi EVO, instead, if I'm looking for a performance bargain with a rental car interior. Apparently, that car has some entertaining qualities.



    But that's not the Z06!! LOL.



    People are always LOLing (laughing out loud) for all kinds of inappropriate reasons. No one that I'm aware of has suggested that the Z06 is a paragon of chassis and/or steering feel. Indeed, quite the opposite.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    I just rode in this exact car - a new Z06 making 516 rwhp
    http://gmhightechperformance.com/tech/0608htp_comp_cams_camshaft_installation/

    If the 911 is even close to as fast, it will be a sick vehicle.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Its obvious that the Z06 turns in some outstanding lap times, just look at the aggressive test results in the German car magazines.

     
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