Dec 31, 2005 5:28:13 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Board: Porsche - 911 - 997
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Re: RMS replaced
There's also the question if you're getting a brand new engine with this RMS warrenty replacement. A while ago on another board guys were saying you get a remanufactured engine. I.e. components that were taken from a low-mileage unit (maybe also with a RMS problem), were completely checked, some completely replaced without question, and then reassembled. This made sense at the time because Porsche apparently would not allow any dealerships to dismantle "blown" (more like "broken") engines. They were all shipped to Germany in one piece.
Dec 31, 2005 6:19:38 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: RMS replaced
Quote:
MMD said:
There's also the question if you're getting a brand new engine with this RMS warrenty replacement. A while ago on another board guys were saying you get a remanufactured engine. I.e. components that were taken from a low-mileage unit (maybe also with a RMS problem), were completely checked, some completely replaced without question, and then reassembled. This made sense at the time because Porsche apparently would not allow any dealerships to dismantle "blown" (more like "broken") engines. They were all shipped to Germany in one piece.
Every single case of replacement engine I have heard off was re-manufactured, not brand new engine. You can tell because there the part number is different.
Dec 31, 2005 6:21:47 PM
- TT Surgeon
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Dec 31, 2005 6:28:49 PM
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Carlos from Spain
Dec 31, 2005 6:40:24 PM
- 964C2
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Re: RMS replaced
Quote:
C4S Surgeon said:
Sorry to burst your bubble, but there have been a few GT3 guys with RMS fails on rennlist, do a search. ANY flat six is at risk of a RMS fail, don't believe me, there was a recent tech article in panorama as well as one on the PCNA tech webpage.
In fact, to be precise, any engine ever manufactured can suffer a rear main seal failure
Dec 31, 2005 7:06:40 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: RMS replaced
Quote:
964C2 said:Quote:
C4S Surgeon said:
Sorry to burst your bubble, but there have been a few GT3 guys with RMS fails on rennlist, do a search. ANY flat six is at risk of a RMS fail, don't believe me, there was a recent tech article in panorama as well as one on the PCNA tech webpage.
In fact, to be precise, any engine ever manufactured can suffer a rear main seal failure
True, it can happen to any engine, any car. The issue is the frecuency in the carrera/boxster engine which is ridiculous and unacceptable. Nobody except Porsche has the exact numbers but conservative estimates may fall in the 30-40%.
So there have been a few reported RMS leaks on the GT3, the difference is that for every single RMS leak in the GT3 there are hundreds and hundreds of Carreras with RMS leaks.
Re: RMS replaced
Porsche RMS is a engineering design fiasco.
Whats really annoying is that once "fixed" it might leak again. There are many owners who have gone through
2-3 RMS warranty fixes, then received a "new" motor under warranty and then had that engines RMS fail.
Its obvious that 996's and 997s accellerate, handle and brake better than a 993 or 964 did.
But UNLIKE all other 911's, 996's and 997's do not stay fixed once you fix them. Earlier ones had their flaws and faults also, but at least they could be fixed with certainty.
Combine that with MOST BUS and sensor gremlins and the 911 has degenerated into a car to only keep under full factory warranty.
Its no longer rugged, its no longer built to last and its no longer capable of being fixed and then staying fixed.
Joy!
Whats really annoying is that once "fixed" it might leak again. There are many owners who have gone through
2-3 RMS warranty fixes, then received a "new" motor under warranty and then had that engines RMS fail.
Its obvious that 996's and 997s accellerate, handle and brake better than a 993 or 964 did.
But UNLIKE all other 911's, 996's and 997's do not stay fixed once you fix them. Earlier ones had their flaws and faults also, but at least they could be fixed with certainty.
Combine that with MOST BUS and sensor gremlins and the 911 has degenerated into a car to only keep under full factory warranty.
Its no longer rugged, its no longer built to last and its no longer capable of being fixed and then staying fixed.
Joy!
Re: RMS replaced
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Porsche RMS is a engineering design fiasco.
Whats really annoying is that once "fixed" it might leak again. There are many owners who have gone through
2-3 RMS warranty fixes, then received a "new" motor under warranty and then had that engines RMS fail.
Its obvious that 996's and 997s accellerate, handle and brake better than a 993 or 964 did.
But UNLIKE all other 911's, 996's and 997's do not stay fixed once you fix them. Earlier ones had their flaws and faults also, but at least they could be fixed with certainty.
Combine that with MOST BUS and sensor gremlins and the 911 has degenerated into a car to only keep under full factory warranty.
Its no longer rugged, its no longer built to last and its no longer capable of being fixed and then staying fixed.
Joy!
SOB! That's what I start thinking when I'm having a bad day.
The thing that crossed my mind is these extended warrenty companies have to make money too, and if the problems do become extensive (withall the frickin electronics too) I dunno how long, "Well, I'll just get an extended warrenty" is going to be a solution.
Re: RMS replaced
Quote:
MMD said:
I don't think it's that simple. I'm just guessing here but, if they machined each engine they'd be wasting money since a very large percentage do not require machining.
I would think that all crankcase halves are machined after casting? A low pressure gravity cast aluminum case won't have the tolerances required straight out of the mold?
Quote:
C4S Surgeon said:
Sorry to burst your bubble, but there have been a few GT3 guys with RMS fails on rennlist, do a search. ANY flat six is at risk of a RMS fail, don't believe me, there was a recent tech article in panorama as well as one on the PCNA tech webpage.
You're right that all engines can suffer from a leaking rear main seal (see the image below from my 964RSA) but the difference between those cars and the 996/997 is that with the 996 the engine (and not the seal) is the problem. I'm sure for a similar very tiny percentage of 996s the seal is the problem and for those its not a big deal. Unfortunately for the remainder (and much larger percentage) the only real fix is to replace the engine. That is why people make such a big deal out of this.
Re: RMS replaced
Quote:
jandreas said:
I would think that all crankcase halves are machined after casting?
Of course they are machined, but not every aspect of them is machined. The seal seat in the casting is not machined to be precisely concentric with the individual crankshaft journal. It would be "too expensive" to do this. This is my amateur understanding.
At least it's not a hand-grenading M3 engine
Read the threads on toadfly and you might think you were in a war zone with M3 engines going bang every 5 minutes. I guess at least BMW admitted they had a problem, but with so many of them going bang they probably had little choice.
Let's see if the new M3 V8 or M5/6 have the same problem.
Let's see if the new M3 V8 or M5/6 have the same problem.
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