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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog love your strong EV vibe!

    I obviously love EVs and ICEs with strong emotions - hence my GT3 and future GT3/RSs


    --

    Tesla Model S P100D & Model X P90D & 2016 BMW i8 & 2017 Sept 991.2 GT3 ordered. 2020 Porsche Mission E on order


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Tesla employees say they took shortcuts, worked through harsh conditions to meet Model 3 production goals

    https://apple.news/ATkt56LKzT46walkQ_yMFPg


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Driverless Cars Are Taking Longer Than We Expected. Here’s Why.

    “We can only drive in places that we have already built a map,” said Andrew Chatham, the software engineer who heads mapping efforts at Waymo, the self-driving technology company.

    Waymo — its name drawn from the slogan “WAY forward in MObile” — operates a driverless taxi service in a Phoenix suburb, and so far, so good. Then again, it’s Phoenix, where sunshine prevails and roadways are relatively benign. “A critical part of working as well as we do is being selective in what we attempt to drive,” Mr. Chatham acknowledged to Retro Report. “We are not driving in the dense traffic of Mumbai, where you have really hairy traffic conditions. We are not yet driving in the worst blizzard that you can imagine.”

    While the video focuses on technological challenges, there are societal concerns as well. For one thing, several million Americans earn a living behind the wheel, driving trucks, delivery vans, taxis, app-based cars, school buses and other vehicles. In a truly automated universe, they would have to find new ways to feed themselves and their families. Ancillary businesses from auto-repair shops to gas stations would probably be affected, too, and not necessarily for the better.

    One big argument in favor of driverless cars is obvious: safety. Robots don’t have one beer too many, or doze off or become distracted by text messages. (At least they don’t as of now. In the future, who knows?) Given the machines’ level of dependability, their advocates say, they would be lifesavers in a country that has 37,000 or so traffic deaths a year. The carnage could be reduced by as much as 90 percent, some analysts say, though an argument could be made, using measurements other than raw fatality totals, that road safety is vastly improved from decades ago. In 1945, for example, there were more than 10 fatalities for every 100 million vehicle miles traveled in the United States. That rate is now down to a bit more than 1 per 100 million vehicle miles.

    The fact is, no one can be certain about the safety potential of self-driving automobiles until they advance from the experimental stage and become ingrained in daily life. Machines are rarely, if ever, perfect. Humans never are, and their unpredictability is likely always to play a role. That was demonstrated last year with the first recorded pedestrian death at the hands of an autonomous vehicle. A woman in Tempe, Ariz., Elaine Herzberg, walked her bike across a street late at night, only to be killed by an Uber-operated car going slightly under the speed limit at about 40 miles per hour.

    Driverless Cars Are Taking Longer Than We Expected. Here’s Why. - The New York Times
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/14/us/driverless-cars.html


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    On every leg to work, I see between 1 and 3 accidents, usually minor, and one out of 3 people while driving is on their phone in one form or another. I am guessing 9/10 of these accidents are linked to the phone one way or the other.

    If every car TODAY used the equivalent of Tesla Autopilot that exists TODAY on the highway (or another very advanced one which I have tried yet), these accidents would be reduced by 90%. So it is coming...

    Autonomous driving outside of the highway is whole other animal.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    If the US would use the same standards for driving licence than Germany these accidents could be reduced by 80%.

    If you punish driver who use the smartphone while driving really hard (license loss ...) these accidents could be reduced by 99%

    (not only on the highway)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Itsme:

    If the US would use the same standards for driving licence than Germany these accidents could be reduced by 80%.

    If you punish driver who use the smartphone while driving really hard (license loss ...) these accidents could be reduced by 99%

    (not only on the highway)

    US drivers start with a bad driving education (is there actually any? Smiley) and end up driving like that most of their life.

    Along the way, experience and caution make drivers drive better but overall, most of the drivers drive the same way they started.

    Not my words, the words of a highway cop we talked to at a rest area during a trip. 

    Another problem is the fact that passing on the right is legal in the US and drivers "jump" between lanes as they please, just to be faster.

    The main problem is the driver education in the beginning, true.

    That smartphone usage while driving virus has infested German drivers as well lately, it is incredible how many people are using their phones while driving. In the US, I'd say every second driver (still) does that, my kids always are on the lookout for those drivers and when sitting in a SUV, they have a pretty good view into other cars on the road.

    I sometimes really wonder: Are people really that stupid or does the brain just shut off while driving?!


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    There is another reason. Boredom. My stretch of driving is usually in moderate to heavy traffic, and either you drive 70mph in a very monotonous way, or you drive 45-65 following cars and even without really being able to change lane because the highway is loaded. There is very little driving skill required to drive except paying attention. And of course with phones, people don’t pay attention anymore...

    That’s why autonomous highway driving can’t come fast enough, it would make everyone much safer.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    There is another reason. Boredom. My stretch of driving is usually in moderate to heavy traffic, and either you drive 70mph in a very monotonous way, or you drive 45-65 following cars and even without really being able to change lane because the highway is loaded. There is very little driving skill required to drive except paying attention. And of course with phones, people don’t pay attention anymore...

    That’s why autonomous highway driving can’t come fast enough, it would make everyone much safer.

    Yes, it is very difficult to keep paying attention when driving for 50 mi straight, no curves, same speed and so on. I usually talk to my wife/kids, listen to music, try to notice a few things in the nature around me but it always makes me very very tired, one reason I stop pretty often on such trips, to eat something and to drink a coffee or Espresso. It helps. I would never ever, not in my dreams, use my smartphone during driving. This goes against everything I learned and experienced as a driver.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Tesla updates pricing and options across lineup, discontinues several variants

    https://apple.news/AL3hSeUyzR4q0qDZ8uFAvZw

    Of note:

    - model 3 is $1,000 cheaper if you order white

    - model S base is now $78k 3.7s 0-60 370 miles range (that price is very well loaded)

    - model X base is now $84k 4.4s 325 miles range (that price is very well loaded)

    - model X FULLY loaded is now $122k (305 miles range but 2.7s 0-60mph angry)

     

    My exact same car is $4,500 cheaper than in March. But more importantly the P100 ludicrous is now $20k cheaper angrysmiley.  For $13k more than what I paid I could have the P100 ludicrous with the exact same options today (cream was not possible on P model before and the model was going to be $145k).

    Time to trade in and call the dealer? angel Just love it. 2.7s for a large 7 seater daily driver for less money than ever. That is just insane, faster in straight line and way cheaper than the top model Taycan will be.

    More seriously, the interior is totally fine but once they have that rumored 120kwh pack coming, I will be very very tempted...

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    2.7...it is just insane..and always there whenever you want....


    --

    993 c2


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    xander71:

    2.7...it is just insane..and always there whenever you want....

    What for? Smiley You know how pathetic it is to do red light "races" in a sports car? Smiley I cannot imagine it is much different in an EV. I get it, novelty factor and all, cool to be able to do that but at the end of the day, this thing still sounds like...nothing. Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    the model X is not a sport car,..a 5000kg machine that outaccelerate any car in production is quite interesting...immagine the guy in a bugatti that cant keep up with a SUV!!!! i would get mad


    --

    993 c2


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    No different than the typical tuned hatchback trying to race a Porsche/Ferrari/Lambo... it looks extremely lame, needy, embarrassing and I could not help but laugh at the guy in the hatchback, so would the guy in the Veyron at the EV minivan... it is just as pathetic as those guys reving the sportscars with their exhausts at the stoplights in the city to be noticed.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    EVs should focus on saving energy to help the environment not on crazy acceleration numbers(0-100/kmh) to show off and waste energy/destroy tires quickly.

    And 0-100/kmh times are irrelevant most of the time. So many zones with 50-70km/h speed limit.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Wanna look at 0-60kph times? You are going to make a few people here with expensive cars cry...

    The X is not a sport car, it is a very agile capable daily driver people mover. Occasionally it can do a fast straight line acceleration if you need and has amazing instant torque in overtaking situations. No more, no less.

    But let’s put it this way, for $120k this is the best value in all vehicles sold today on the market. It is luxurious, confortable, relaxing, has the best self driving features on the market and last but not least it is super cool. On top of it you can order it online, pay the deposit with ApplePay and have it deliver to your house 3 weeks later without ever meeting anyone Smiley Then the car is updated over the air every month and you don’t need to get it serviced for a couple of years. And then once and a while you can floor it and smoke almost every car on the road Smiley and you never have to go to a gas station again as a bonus.

    What’s not to like? A build quality not at the level of the best on the market today and service centers that are trying trying to handle the recent explosion of the numbers of their cars on the road.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Carlos from Spain:

    No different than the typical tuned hatchback trying to race a Porsche/Ferrari/Lambo... it looks extremely lame, needy, embarrassing and I could not help but laugh at the guy in the hatchback, so would the guy in the Veyron at the EV minivan... it is just as pathetic as those guys reving the sportscars with their exhausts at the stoplights in the city to be noticed.

    Now tell us how you really feel Smiley or how you feel about a RRS SVR or a GLS AMG 63 AMG?

    And you know that guy in the Veyron? He is probably laughing because he know what the X already in his garage can do Smiley

    Why people here see the world in all black or all white is a giant mystery. You don’t have to own ONE car or drive ONE car all the time. Some cars are better for some things, some for others. You might be “lucky” to drive in a place that has good weather year round and that you don’t need more than a 2+2 and that you can have a spirited drive every day going to work. But for the rest of us, there are some great alternatives on the market in addition to a fun toy. Just look at Nick, even him is getting a (beautiful none the less) EV for a specific need (city driving so no need for top performance or range).

    Hilarious that you would compare a fast EV, a silent car, to ricers revving up loud engines at a red light Smiley

    Sorry but in today’s world, you cannot anymore call yourself a car aficionado and at the same time blindly dismiss where EV is today and the fast pace of progress, or what Tesla has done to the car industry in the last decade. Even for journalists the tide has turned, the only ones left are the ones with an agenda.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:
    Carlos from Spain:

    No different than the typical tuned hatchback trying to race a Porsche/Ferrari/Lambo... it looks extremely lame, needy, embarrassing and I could not help but laugh at the guy in the hatchback, so would the guy in the Veyron at the EV minivan... it is just as pathetic as those guys reving the sportscars with their exhausts at the stoplights in the city to be noticed.

    Now tell us how you really feel Smiley or how you feel about a RRS SVR or a GLS AMG 63 AMG?

    And you know that guy in the Veyron? He is probably laughing because he know what the X already in his garage can do Smiley

    Why people here see the world in all black or all white is a giant mystery. You don’t have to own ONE car or drive ONE car all the time. Some cars are better for some things, some for others. You might be “lucky” to drive in a place that has good weather year round and that you don’t need more than a 2+2 and that you can have a spirited drive every day going to work. But for the rest of us, there are some great alternatives on the market in addition to a fun toy. Just look at Nick, even him is getting a (beautiful none the less) EV for a specific need (city driving so no need for top performance or range).

    Hilarious that you would compare a fast EV, a silent car, to ricers revving up loud engines at a red light Smiley

    Sorry but in today’s world, you cannot anymore call yourself a car aficionado and at the same time blindly dismiss where EV is today and the fast pace of progress, or what Tesla has done to the car industry in the last decade. Even for journalists the tide has turned, the only ones left are the ones with an agenda.

    I think you got ahead of yourself there, I was specifically talking about a guy in a 7-seater minivan (the fact it is EV is irrelevant) trying to race a million dollar sportscar, the example xander mentioned that I replied to, not about EV cars in general... nothing embarrassing or lame about EV tech.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    How different are the cars I listed? They seat 7 (well the RRS supercharged and GLS AMG) and are large daily driver cars that are not meant to do off road (if anything because of their tires), yet have very powerful engines in order to improve road performance to levels that compete with sport cars and fast sedans. I am right on point, sorry. But maybe you think their capabilities are lame, needy and embarassing also... Because owners of these cars will never floor them at a traffic light when there is a sport car next, right angry

    Do I need to pull out design pictures again from a few pages ago where it is crystal clear the X looks way more like a Cayenne coupe than a minivan? That ship has sailed 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Just for kicks:

     

    28EE091E-C71B-442C-8A1F-24CE6C81014D.jpeg 1B34AED6-6AEB-4DDA-9397-E30961A7294D.jpeg

    Same design  But hey they have 4 doors and 4 wheels...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Meanwhile Elon goes off the deep end again heart:

    Elon Musk: Tesla cars should be worth $100k to $200k with Full Self-Driving package

    https://apple.news/A0YOk8L7sTaa260YsK_Fbuw


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    Do I need to pull out design pictures again from a few pages ago where it is crystal clear the X looks way more like a Cayenne coupe than a minivan? That ship has sailed 

    Maybe the Model Y will look more like a SUV, but I have seen the X close up, it is a minivan, both on the inside and outside, not a SUV... and certainly not even close to a Cayenne Coupe which I have also seen inside/out too Smiley


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Being a practical car, which is a quality for a daily driver, does not make it a minivan. It has a minimalist interior, that does not make it a minivan either. And it does not even look like a minivan especially outside, and since inside there are no mass production minivan that reach that level of luxury like alcantara roof liner and luxurious wood inserts with few if any exploded plastics, let alone AWD and the performance.

    The Y will not look more like an SUV, they are crossovers ie trying to grab the best features from several categories.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Minivan does not refer to the interior luxury, AWD vs RWD, or anything the of like, in fact that does not describe any vehicle class.

    Minivans are characterized by the profile shape (specially the front half), height, overall size, and inside distribution and space, which makes them very practical as people movers and daily drivers but not very attractive or sexy.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    And the X does not have a short vertical front nor a boxy rear that characterizes minivans despite your truth twisting... Practical? Oh yes, but that’s because of the full wing doors and the lack of engine and fuel tank. Coolness is a personal point of view, but I have yet to meet a single individual that said this car was not cool whereas many said it was very cool... Of coure the nice color combo helps Smiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    Time to trade in and call the dealer? angel Just love it. 2.7s for a large 7 seater daily driver for less money than ever. That is just insane, faster in straight line and way cheaper than the top model Taycan will be.

     

     

    The Tesla is perfect for your daily commute as you describe it above. The Taycan is suited for people who really want (and can) drive their cars.

    Honestly, Tesla is ideal for kids on the schoolyard who get excited about some headline figure (0-60, which you can do once before the car is finished). Cheap product - you get what you pay for.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    MKSGR:

    Honestly, Tesla is ideal for kids on the schoolyard who get excited about some headline figure (0-60, which you can do once before the car is finished). Cheap product - you get what you pay for.

    Strange that I was able to do 10 consecutive 0-100km/h runs and got sub 4 sec to 100 the 10th attempt in a Model 3 Performance... Smiley
     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    British car mag reviewer compare Model 3 with Jaguar i-Pace. From a driving dynamic perspective, there is really no contest... and surprisingly even the luggage space is better in the Model 3.

    I've tested the I-Pace myself and I agree pretty much with the reviewer except for a few things regarding the Model 3 where he is a bit off and misinformed.

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I have to be honest, I got to admire SciFrog for his tenacity. He has the faith of an acolyte and the resilience of a Duracell bunny. At some point if he keeps this up for another 6mths or so I am gonna ask my neighbour (I have a few neighbours) for a ride in his Tesla minivan (which always seems to have its spoiler up!). No offence SciFrog, you are either completely nuts :) or genuinely convinced (a believer) and I think it may be the latter! Doesn’t mean I am remotely close to considering one but I am prepared to be open minded and try it. That said, I love the sound of my air cooled flat 6, and appreciate the mechanical and analog craftsmanship that is like an old Rolex...

     

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    And the X does not have a short vertical front nor a boxy rear that characterizes minivans despite your truth twisting... Practical? Oh yes, but that’s because of the full wing doors and the lack of engine and fuel tank. Coolness is a personal point of view, but I have yet to meet a single individual that said this car was not cool whereas many said it was very cool... Of coure the nice color combo helps Smiley

    I guess it depends on what type or crowd you are asking, if someone came to my last car drive/meet with the X and asked for words to describe it, cool wouldn't be one of them to describe a 7 seater EV minivan indecision 

    Don't see the problem anyway, nobody buys a minivan for its looks, they compromise that for the practicality. Some cars you buy to get you to A to B and nothing else, nothing wrong with that, and the X seems to meet your needs beyond your expectations, so even better. But "cool"? No... just no.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    996FourEss:

    I have to be honest, I got to admire SciFrog for his tenacity. He has the faith of an acolyte and the resilience of a Duracell bunny. At some point if he keeps this up for another 6mths or so I am gonna ask my neighbour (I have a few neighbours) for a ride in his Tesla minivan (which always seems to have its spoiler up!). No offence SciFrog, you are either completely nuts :) or genuinely convinced (a believer) and I think it may be the latter! Doesn’t mean I am remotely close to considering one but I am prepared to be open minded and try it. That said, I love the sound of my air cooled flat 6, and appreciate the mechanical and analog craftsmanship that is like an old Rolex...


    Smiley

    I get many of his points because I also have years of experience with Tesla yet have also driven or owned a lot of Porsches, Audis etc. Living with a Tesla is rally a great experience and there are so many good things with these cars  so it is easy to get carried away owning one.


     
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