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    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    Enzo II:
    GM Austin:

    Nice article in Autocar:

    http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/porsche-macan-blasts-370bhpNice Macan article in Autocar:

     

    The top-of-the-line Macan will be the first car powered by Porsche’s still-secret new twin-turbocharged V6 petrol engine, details of which are revealed here for the first time.

    Developed in-house at Porsche’s R&D centre in Weissach, Germany, the twin-turbo V6 is understood to have a 90deg vee and a capacity of 3.0 litres. It is believed to be a variant of the 3.6-litre V6 that powers entry-level Cayenne and Panamera models.

    Peak power and torque are said to be in the region of 370bhp and 400lb ft thanks to twin sequential Borg Warner turbochargers, an air-to-air intercooler system and other internal modifications, including a lower compression ratio than that of the normally aspirated 3.6-litre engine. That’s an increase of about 80bhp and 105lb ft over the non-turbo 3.6.

    Panamera 3.6 V6 (Porsche) and Cayenne 3.6 V6 (VW) , don't share the same engine

    what's the difference? it's the some output...


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    dxpetrov:
    Enzo II:
    GM Austin:

    Nice article in Autocar:

    http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/porsche-macan-blasts-370bhpNice Macan article in Autocar:

     

    The top-of-the-line Macan will be the first car powered by Porsche’s still-secret new twin-turbocharged V6 petrol engine, details of which are revealed here for the first time.

    Developed in-house at Porsche’s R&D centre in Weissach, Germany, the twin-turbo V6 is understood to have a 90deg vee and a capacity of 3.0 litres. It is believed to be a variant of the 3.6-litre V6 that powers entry-level Cayenne and Panamera models.

    Peak power and torque are said to be in the region of 370bhp and 400lb ft thanks to twin sequential Borg Warner turbochargers, an air-to-air intercooler system and other internal modifications, including a lower compression ratio than that of the normally aspirated 3.6-litre engine. That’s an increase of about 80bhp and 105lb ft over the non-turbo 3.6.

    Panamera 3.6 V6 (Porsche) and Cayenne 3.6 V6 (VW) , don't share the same engine

    what's the difference? it's the some output...

    The V6 Cayenne sources its engine from Volkswagen, using the company's veteran VR6 engine used in everything from the Golf, Passat and Touareg. It is built from an iron block and has its cylinders arranged in a 10.6 degree angle rather than a V-engine's conventional 60/90 degree bank. In a sense, it's a bit of an inline-six, but the cylinder angle puts it in between that and a V. It's also very tall and narrow, making it too tall to fit into the Panamera's engine bay.

    The engine used in the V6 Panamera models is essentially the Porsche V8 engine with two cylinders chopped off. It's a 90 degree bank, aluminum engine sharing over 40 percent of its components with the V8 but has additional parts [such as a balance shaft] to ensure optimum performance for the V6's construction. Where the VW VR6 is tall and narrow, this one is wider and shallower as well as shorter in the front, hence the gap you see in the front of the Panamera's engine bay.

    rulesdontapply


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    rulesdontapply:
    dxpetrov:
    Enzo II:
    GM Austin:

    Nice article in Autocar:

    http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/porsche-macan-blasts-370bhpNice Macan article in Autocar:

     

    The top-of-the-line Macan will be the first car powered by Porsche’s still-secret new twin-turbocharged V6 petrol engine, details of which are revealed here for the first time.

    Developed in-house at Porsche’s R&D centre in Weissach, Germany, the twin-turbo V6 is understood to have a 90deg vee and a capacity of 3.0 litres. It is believed to be a variant of the 3.6-litre V6 that powers entry-level Cayenne and Panamera models.

    Peak power and torque are said to be in the region of 370bhp and 400lb ft thanks to twin sequential Borg Warner turbochargers, an air-to-air intercooler system and other internal modifications, including a lower compression ratio than that of the normally aspirated 3.6-litre engine. That’s an increase of about 80bhp and 105lb ft over the non-turbo 3.6.

    Panamera 3.6 V6 (Porsche) and Cayenne 3.6 V6 (VW) , don't share the same engine

    what's the difference? it's the some output...

    The V6 Cayenne sources its engine from Volkswagen, using the company's veteran VR6 engine used in everything from the Golf, Passat and Touareg. It is built from an iron block and has its cylinders arranged in a 10.6 degree angle rather than a V-engine's conventional 60/90 degree bank. In a sense, it's a bit of an inline-six, but the cylinder angle puts it in between that and a V. It's also very tall and narrow, making it too tall to fit into the Panamera's engine bay.

    The engine used in the V6 Panamera models is essentially the Porsche V8 engine with two cylinders chopped off. It's a 90 degree bank, aluminum engine sharing over 40 percent of its components with the V8 but has additional parts [such as a balance shaft] to ensure optimum performance for the V6's construction. Where the VW VR6 is tall and narrow, this one is wider and shallower as well as shorter in the front, hence the gap you see in the front of the Panamera's engine bay.

    rulesdontapply

    Cool. Didn't know that! Thanks a lot! Very logical and informative. It's just funny the coincidence that they share the same capacity...

    SmileySmiley


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    Enzo II:

    Panamera 3.6 V6 (Porsche) and Cayenne 3.6 V6 (VW) , don't share the same engine

    This is 100% correct.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    it is 21 cm shorter than the current version - this means the BABY cayenne will only  be something like 13 or 14 cm shorter then the Gen 955/957.

    strikes me  as a bit of a stretch t o call that smallerSmiley


    --

    2012 991 C2S -PDK / 2010 997.2 turbo cab manual, sold / 2008 Cayenne GTS Manual /2008 RS 60 sold /04 C4S sold - 08 Cayenne Turbo PDCC sold


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    enlightened

    spyshots-porsche-macan-720p-3.jpg


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    crying

    spyshots-porsche-macan-720p-4.jpg


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    For those with strong stomachs and want to se more:http://www.autoevolution.com/news-g-image/spyshots-porsche-macan/77675.html


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    OK.it's not bad for the small SUV category. But do Porsche really need this car in the enormity of the VW Group with a proliferation of brands and models? The excuse for the Cayenne was that it would provide the funds for them to stay independent, which failed of course. But what is the excuse now?


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    Sales and profits. Forget the products, it's the company they are looking after.


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    What they profit today they'll lose in the longer term through the lessening of the worth of the brand.

    IMO this is a very shortsighted strategy. Through a higher Brand Equity they could generate more money with less units. I'd rather see their respected engineering resources devoted on cars like the 918, a super coupe, even on a more striking Panamera type model etc and on high level Motorsport., rather than on economy turbodiesels and versions of Audi 4 cylinder engines.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    reginos:


    What they profit today they'll lose in the longer term through the lessening of the worth of the brand.



    IMO this is a very shortsighted strategy. Through a higher Brand Equity they could generate more money with less units. I'd rather see their respected engineering resources devoted on cars like the 918, a super coupe, even on a more striking Panamera type model etc and on high level Motorsport., rather than on economy turbodiesels and versions of Audi 4 cylinder engines.







    That was pretty strong statement, but I do agree 100%

    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    No argument from me either.


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    reginos:

    What they profit today they'll lose in the longer term through the lessening of the worth of the brand.

    IMO this is a very shortsighted strategy. Through a higher Brand Equity they could generate more money with less units. I'd rather see their respected engineering resources devoted on cars like the 918, a super coupe, even on a more striking Panamera type model etc and on high level Motorsport., rather than on economy turbodiesels and versions of Audi 4 cylinder engines.

    I'm not sure all Porsche customers see it that way. Look at the Mercedes AMG and the BMW M departments, they do quite well. I guess that Porsche tries to have a healthy mix, some for actually making money and some for the more traditional part of the company but I'm not sure how this strategy is going to play out on the longterm run. There will be an impact sooner or later... 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (at Porsche right now), BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    The difference is that Mercedes and BMW after 1945 were making normal cars mainly, so their evolution into AMG and ///M added to the values of the two brands. Porsche is going the opposite way. yes


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    The Macan may not appeal to us because we are drawn to Porsche because of its sportscars.

    PAG does not have us in mind IMO with the Macan. It is aiming at people who are probably new to the brand and who want a sportier SUV with no intention of actually buying a sportscar - I think the key market for these aspirational buyers is China.

    Also, the Macan is a good (2nd) family car for use by the wife ... I think this will sell spectacularly well even if purists don't like it.


    --


    997.1 C2S
     GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    Who would buy Rolex in the long term if they started making versions of Swatch. This is the flawed Porsche strategy, short term profits but devaluation in the long run. Once it was competing against Ferrari but gradually it's becoming a BMW rival.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    reginos:

    Who would buy Rolex in the long term if they started making versions of Swatch. This is the flawed Porsche strategy, short term profits but devaluation in the long run. Once it was competing against Ferrari but gradually it's becoming a BMW rival.

    Apparently they think they cannot survive otherwise, which could be true.

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (at Porsche right now), BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    RC:
    reginos:

    Who would buy Rolex in the long term if they started making versions of Swatch. This is the flawed Porsche strategy, short term profits but devaluation in the long run. Once it was competing against Ferrari but gradually it's becoming a BMW rival.

    Apparently they think they cannot survive otherwise, which could be true.

     

    IMO they are underestimating the value of the brand, even if the Macan is a good car, which I expect it to be, it's still paving the way for much less exclusivity from Porsche. Maybe they should put a pin on the new models for a while and focus on giving credibility and improving upon the platforms they already have. I'm sure there's enough market for them to stay afloat, not to mention the fact that the VWgroup is not going to let the brand fall apart. Then again maybe VW just wants to turn Porsche into a glorified Audi, just milking the badge and name for profit with no regard for its sentimental value and heritage. Thats sad to even consider.


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    I think Porsche knows well what they are doing. In my opinion the customers with the emotional bonding to the 911 and the history of it are not the primary source of business for Porsche today, and this will be even more significant in the future.

    When I was a kid, for me Porsche was the 911 , today (I assume) Porsche means more than that for the younger generation or in the new markets Porsche is addressing. I believe Porsche still makes great products, just adapted to different times, needs and markets. If they will keep doing so  then the Macan and what will follow have a strong reason to exist.


    --

    911 Club Coupe, 72' 911 Targa 2.4 S, 12' Audi S4 Avant


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    I would even go to the length to say that for some of the younger urban generation , Porsche means : Cayenne angry


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    Thank God I grew up in their "sportscar" era.


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    Imagine how much more money FIAT would have made if they directed Ferrari the way Porsche is going.

    However, it seems Italians have more respect for the history and tradition of brands which I'm sure it pays in the long term. The Ferrari FF could have very well been the basis for a SUV. But they tread cautiously and with greater respect.

    Porsche being under VW now have no excuse for experiments in order to survive. Porsche is the only German sportscar name, a very historic company wordwide and it should be treated with more respect IMO. If I can realize that living 2500 km away from Stuttgart how can the PAG people, next to heritage be so blind cheeky


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    reginos:

    Who would buy Rolex in the long term if they started making versions of Swatch. This is the flawed Porsche strategy, short term profits but devaluation in the long run. Once it was competing against Ferrari but gradually it's becoming a BMW rival.

     

    Swatch group owns:

    BreguetBlancpainGlashütte OriginalJaquet DrozLéon HatotOmegaLonginesRadoUnion GlashütteTissotCalvin Klein Watches + JewelryBalmainCertinaMidoHamiltonSwatchFlik FlakEndura and Tourbillon.

    And people buy Breguet watches from them...  Companies can no longer afford to be narrow-niched.


    --
    2012 Cayenne TT (on order for june 2012), 997.1 Targa 4s, 2009 Q5 3.2

    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    Ownership might be shared  but each brand is well defined within its own segment.

    I would have no problem with Porsche being owned by VW (actually it's a good thing) as long as they don't make expensive versions of VW products.

     


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    reginos:

    Ownership might be shared  but each brand is well defined within its own segment.

    I would have no problem with Porsche being owned by VW (actually it's a good thing) as long as they don't make expensive versions of VW products.

     

    But most of these watches share the same (almost) ETA mechanisms.

    Ferrari f.e. use challanger`09 nav system))) A lot of things are unified today.

    I don't see any problem with macan, it will be the great product and it is the main thing. I am sure, if ferrari had an ability and money to build SUV, they would do that. Only let marketologists make their work;)

    P.S. if we take mercedes as an example, I don't see any depreciation of brand that build cars for presidents and a-classe;) 

     


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    Mercedes is a good example in the sense that it doesn't have same allure today as in the 70s for example because of the dilution with lower models. But they had to do it in order to survive as a stand alone company. Mercedes, once magnificent, nowadays is on par with BMW ( a poor relative in the past) and Audi (a brand that hardly existed until the 80s)

    Porsche went along the route of diversification for independence but they failed completely in that they are neither independent nor as exclusive as when they embarked upon this strategy. Perhaps, a Porsche is still considered exclusive in some emerging markets through clever marketing and because of the fact that people didn't own good cars 20 years ago. But in mature markets the value of the Porsche brand has degraded since the Wiedeking era.

    This doesn't mean that Porsche stopped producing some good models with special characteristics. I'm afraid a Porsche is just not an event anymore yes


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    reginos:

    Mercedes is a good example in the sense that it doesn't have same allure today as in the 70s for example because of the dilution with lower models. But they had to do it in order to survive as a stand alone company. Mercedes, once magnificent, nowadays is on par with BMW ( a poor relative in the past) and Audi (a brand that hardly existed until the 80s)

    Porsche went along the route of diversification for independence but they failed completely in that they are neither independent nor as exclusive as when they embarked upon this strategy. Perhaps, a Porsche is still considered exclusive in some emerging markets through clever marketing and because of the fact that people didn't own good cars 20 years ago. But in mature markets the value of the Porsche brand has degraded since the Wiedeking era.

    This doesn't mean that Porsche stopped producing some good models with special characteristics. I'm afraid a Porsche is just not an event anymore yes


    --

    "Form follows function"

    But can we call Aston Martin, Ferrari, Lambo exclusive cars? Yes, as Porsche, they build some limited models, but other models are made in unlimited numbers, there is only a question, does the person have enough money... I think that full-exclusive brands are Bugatti, Koenigsegg, Pagani, but producing sportscars they don't run in autosport...

    Are the ferrari cali, 458 or gallardo or vantage can be called "event"? Smiley

    Maybe I am wrong, but really, if all these cars are "units" for manufacturers maybe we should also think about these cars as "units". To my mind the strength of sportscar brand is made in autosport. History, people and triumphs matters as maybe like in Breguet history. To my mind this brand can make any watches but it will be forever remembered because such people as Pushkin, Romanov family and etc wore them;)

     


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

     

    Kudeyavchik - good job on Breguet history :) you listed Russians that owned them, but what about Marie Antoinette, Napoleon and other famous characters from the west of Poland :)) (ya s uvazsheniem govoryu) I own two of their watches- a 1835 watch and a royal mariner watch (with alarm). We all understand that Porsche is giving away exclusivity of the brand for profit... It does not mean that GT3, 911 turbos will at all suffer. Being flagship models they will get more development money, more recent technology and the company will not close down :) nothing wrong with that.

     


    --
    2012 Cayenne TT (on order for june 2012), 997.1 Targa 4s, 2009 Q5 3.2

    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    kudryavchik:

    But most of these watches share the same (almost) ETA mechanisms.

    Most but not all - important distinctions in that list in this respect...  And within the brands' ranges too...


    --


    Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)


     
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