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    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    xander71:

    with 300 hp and a v6 it would have been a completely different story...... a 4 cil small turbo...the one of the mito.....no  no no...

    Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Probably a rather heavier story though.. look what happened to the Lotus Exige when it went from a small 4-cyl to a 350hp V6... (gained ~300kg)


    --

    2015 911 GT3, 1964 Type 1


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    its a lovely little car.....and i am fine with the spec....even with the little 1.8 four pot.

    the price is what makes this car not sell. i too had contemplated getting one as a toy car. but 70-80k for a toy car...no, not really.

    my cobra cost me 100k $ before import taxes.....but that is a different story and a different monster alltogether.


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    intouch1:

    its a lovely little car.....and i am fine with the spec....even with the little 1.8 four pot.

    the price is what makes this car not sell. i too had contemplated getting one as a toy car. but 70-80k for a toy car...no, not really.

    my cobra cost me 100k $ before import taxes.....but that is a different story and a different monster alltogether.

    You are speaking out of my heart. Also - I would loose another garage space which I rater keep for something real special. My itch was there, but at the end I lost it. 


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    intouch1:

    its a lovely little car.....and i am fine with the spec....even with the little 1.8 four pot.

    the price is what makes this car not sell. i too had contemplated getting one as a toy car. but 70-80k for a toy car...no, not really.

    my cobra cost me 100k $ before import taxes.....but that is a different story and a different monster alltogether.

    Yes, exactly my words. For a fourth, fifth or whatever fun toy car, it is too expensive. For 50k, this thing would have sold tremendously well. 

    I also wonder how Fiat wants to sell that new Fiat 124 Abarth for over 40k EUR. Smiley This car isn't a beauty and for 26k EUR (after rebate) , I can have the Mazda MX-5 top version with 160 hp. It even looks better in my opinion.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    RC:
    intouch1:

    its a lovely little car.....and i am fine with the spec....even with the little 1.8 four pot.

    the price is what makes this car not sell. i too had contemplated getting one as a toy car. but 70-80k for a toy car...no, not really.

    my cobra cost me 100k $ before import taxes.....but that is a different story and a different monster alltogether.

    Yes, exactly my words. For a fourth, fifth or whatever fun toy car, it is too expensive. For 50k, this thing would have sold tremendously well. 

    I also wonder how Fiat wants to sell that new Fiat 124 Abarth for over 40k EUR. Smiley This car isn't a beauty and for 26k EUR (after rebate) , I can have the Mazda MX-5 top version with 160 hp. It even looks better in my opinion.

    I dont understand anyone which buys that Fiat 124 - not in any kind of version. The car is very ugly. The MX5 looks much better, kind a cool car!

    But - the 4C is special. We should not forget that full carbon monocoque and its extremely fun drive. No other car in this size offers comparable. Also, as it is lower than 1000 units a year, a lot of regulatory requirements are not required, which makes it lightweight. The gear shift, the seating position - the car is special and fun! The Coupe is in the right price (around 50k), but the Spyder is around 70 which is too high. And - I don't see the reason why you would buy a Coupe anyway. The Spyder has a hard top, so it is barely a difference. I still wouldn't mind to own one. I can see how much fun that 356 Speedster is, just thinking about the same weight in a modern car - WOW!

     

     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    For 70k, you can get a Boxster...4C Spider is not priced right at all.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    RC:

    For 70k, you can get a Boxster...4C Spider is not priced right at all.

    again - I agree.

    But the Boxster is way different build. The 4C is build like a sports car, monocoque, light, fewer regulatory requirements, etc. etc. The Boxster is a great car but compared to the 4C the drive is rather unemotional and boring.


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Lars997:
    RC:

    For 70k, you can get a Boxster...4C Spider is not priced right at all.

    again - I agree.

    But the Boxster is way different build. The 4C is build like a sports car, monocoque, light, fewer regulatory requirements, etc. etc. The Boxster is a great car but compared to the 4C the drive is rather unemotional and boring.

    You know that, I know that and maybe others here but most potential customers just want a small fun car...

    When it comes to 70k EUR for a Porsche or for an Alfa Romeo, I bet I know what people would usually choose. Smiley Human nature...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    RC:

    I also wonder how Fiat wants to sell that new Fiat 124 Abarth for over 40k EUR. Smiley This car isn't a beauty and for 26k EUR (after rebate) , I can have the Mazda MX-5 top version with 160 hp. It even looks better in my opinion.

    Is Fiat really expecting that kind of a premium for the brand name in Europe?   In the US, the two cars are within a couple hundred dollars in price. Smiley


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Gladstone:
    RC:

    I also wonder how Fiat wants to sell that new Fiat 124 Abarth for over 40k EUR. Smiley This car isn't a beauty and for 26k EUR (after rebate) , I can have the Mazda MX-5 top version with 160 hp. It even looks better in my opinion.

    Is Fiat really expecting that kind of a premium for the brand name in Europe?   In the US, the two cars are within a couple hundred dollars in price. Smiley

    The Abarth version is quite expensive over here...don't see how people would pay that much money for an "uglier" version of the MX-5. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    You are missing the point. People buying the 4C are not cross shopping with the Cayman or Boxster. Anyone who is looking at it against such cars is either not an enthusiast or a serious buyer IMHO. Having owned a GT4 and now having a 981 Spyder plus various other cars I can say that the 4C offers something completely different and more unique from those cars. It is a much more involving and visceral experience for the senses.

    The 4C is unlikely to be repeated unless someone comes up with a much cheaper way of mass producing carbon fibre tubs. The way the body panels are made is also labour intensive if you watch the documentary on youtube showing how these cars are built. The way the engines are assembled is also very different to the way the similar unit destined for the Giulietta QV are made. This is a special car that people are dismissing based upon brand perceptions as opposed to the actual product itself. Go and drive one before pronouncing it is over priced etc.

    Anyone thinking of buying one new should take advantage of the many low mileage used examples out there whilst they can. Alfa have not made any serious upgrades to the car since production began so there is no real advantage to a factory order.


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    I agree, the 4C is a very special car but only people like you or me can appreciate it.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    ISUK:

    Having owned a GT4 and now having a 981 Spyder plus various other cars...

     Why did you sell the GT4 Iain?


    --

     

    Cayman GT4, Racing Yellow, PCCB, 918 Style Full Buckets

     

    Aston Martin V12 Vantage S Dogleg Manual, Colour tba, Buckets (on order)


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Adam2S:
    ISUK:

    Having owned a GT4 and now having a 981 Spyder plus various other cars...

     Why did you sell the GT4 Iain?

    +1

    Did you not have that beautiful green PTS GT4? Or am I confusing it Smiley


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    My dealer was very keen to have it back and had a sub 500 mile Spyder that had come back in after it's owner secured their last GT4 production slot. Having the 4C and Huracan in the garage alongside the GT4 I felt it worth pitching a figure to them that I'd be happy to let the GT4 go for and take the Spyder in it's place. After letting them mull it over for a day they came back and agreed so I swapped the cars over. For me personally the Spyder offers more fun for the type of driving I use it for and I don't regret the decision. If I'd kept the GT4 I was considering changing my 4C for a 4C spider but that would have cost me a substantial sum. Doing it this way I actually made a tidy sum which makes a very pleasant change on a Porsche.


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Nice one! kiss


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Good choice. The spyder seems way more fun since you can open the top, who cares if it is a tiny bit slower...

    RC, I looked to replace our Mini S convertible and to get the exact same car we have it was $40k. I don't think the Fiat prices are that crazy. The 4C is also not bad for what it provides, and I don't see them as a Cayman/Boxster competitor either.


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    SciFrog:

    Good choice. The spyder seems way more fun since you can open the top, who cares if it is a tiny bit slower...

    RC, I looked to replace our Mini S convertible and to get the exact same car we have it was $40k. I don't think the Fiat prices are that crazy. The 4C is also not bad for what it provides, and I don't see them as a Cayman/Boxster competitor either.

    Our Mini JCW is over 40k EUR as well. It actually is a completely different car than the "old" Mini JCW, this is no Mini anymore. We drove to Munich twice in this car, all four of us (me, wife and kids) and it was very comfortable. In a Mini. I guess it is worth 40k EUR but this is no Mini anymore I'm afraid. One friend who saw the car up close and never really got close to a Mini asked me why the heck this Mini is so big. Smiley Well... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Is that the big Mini or the regular version? Note my spec was not even a JCW, just a S...


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    SciFrog:

    Is that the big Mini or the regular version? Note my spec was not even a JCW, just a S...

    I own the Mini Cooper JCW (3-door), so it is the regular one but it really looks big when you stand next to it. Smiley Lots of room in the inside, very comfy (for two kids in the back anyway).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    We are still amazed how we can fit 4 people rather comfortably in our 9 year old Mini convertible...


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    RC:
    SciFrog:

    Good choice. The spyder seems way more fun since you can open the top, who cares if it is a tiny bit slower...

    RC, I looked to replace our Mini S convertible and to get the exact same car we have it was $40k. I don't think the Fiat prices are that crazy. The 4C is also not bad for what it provides, and I don't see them as a Cayman/Boxster competitor either.

    Our Mini JCW is over 40k EUR as well. It actually is a completely different car than the "old" Mini JCW, this is no Mini anymore. We drove to Munich twice in this car, all four of us (me, wife and kids) and it was very comfortable. In a Mini. I guess it is worth 40k EUR but this is no Mini anymore I'm afraid. One friend who saw the car up close and never really got close to a Mini asked me why the heck this Mini is so big. Smiley Well... Smiley

    Same here - my Mini Cooper S Diesel is 44.300,- €. Way too much for a Mini. But - car is versatile, highly usable (at least for 1 person) and kind of lifestyle. It is fun and I didn't care as it was a an impulse buy. 

    The 4C is actually way to cheap for what it offers. It will be a classic and 20 years from now we all will bite our butts. I would never compare it with a Boxster - that is a very heavy luxury car compared to the 4C. 

    Consider this - for the price of a Boxster or a C4 you can get a brand new Corvette - you still would choose the Boxster?


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    I drove a new Mini JCW Convertible on Thursday in central London. It has 18" wheels with run flat tyres and sports suspension.

    It rode very well on the terrible roads. The car is compliant, handles well, steers quite well, sounds good, and feels rock solid. And plenty fast enough. Beautifully put together. To me, it's feels more preimium than any 1 or 2 series BMW.

    I also drove a Cooper Convertible and a Cooper S Convertible; the former has 16" wheels and standard suspension and was very comfortable, but slightly wallowy; the latter has 17" wheels with variable damper control, but the ride was terrible and the chassis was very unsettled.

    The JCW was leagues ahead.

     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    I never was a 4C fan, never had that Alfa itch but do applaud them for being one of the only big manufacturers to make a real lightweight sport car. Shame the 4C program wasn't the succes it could have been: lightweight cars do bring back the thrill of driving in these times of obese 991/R8/GT's with 500+ hp. Something's gotta give...

    And about that measly 4 cylinder Alfa engine: my Donkervoort weighs 680 kg and only needs 270 bhp from 4 cylinders to scare the crap out of me. The new Donkervoort GTO weighs a bit more but has a better hp/weight ratio than a Bugatti Veyron (!!!) thanks to it's 5 cylinder Audi engine with (only) 380 hp. These lightweight cars don't need big engines, they are the best fun one can have on the road without going to jail. So kudos to Alfa wink

    [edit: you can go to jail very fast in a Donkervoort, but that's not the point ] indecision


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Lars997:
    Consider this - for the price of a Boxster or a C4 you can get a brand new Corvette - you still would choose the Boxster?

    Do not get a Corvette. Sorry to say but if it is raining or if the roads are the least bit greasy or cold you won't be able to use even 100 horses of its 465hp. For street car use it is really for old guys to drive in a straight line on a summer day. Think of it like this, Porsches can feel underpowered because the chassis, suspension and traction are so good that it begs for more power.. Corvettes when you press the gas hard makes you and the car feel like it is trying to catch up with its engine. Sounds fun until you try to turn or stop.Smiley Think a 911 can get snap oversteer, a Corvette goes into snap oversteer much easier. If you want American V8 power you are better off and way safer in the new Camaro, At least it won't try to kill you when you are trying to get somewhere fast.Smiley  This is a test of a midrange new Camaro versus a new M4, http://,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D87tO7VUs2I      If you want more hp look at the new 640hp Camaro ZL1 in the US it is same price as a M4. The Boxster and 4C are better year around sports car choices than a Corvette.


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    @Jim: 

    This is exactly my point. The 4C is for sure the best for corners, while the C7 has a lots of power. The Boxster is nor meat no fish - it is just about the brand image.

    So - if I would look for this car which is fun to drive on country roads, I might better take a 4C than any of the same prices so called Sports Cars. And the Boxster is for sure the last choice I would take. 

     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    4C is probably best for pure fun, which seems to be what you are looking for. You have other cars so the 4C's daily driver flaws would not matter for you. You can also probably negotiate a pretty good price on one now and there are tuners for them so more fun can be had.

     

     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Sad to say but I foresee Alfa doing another crash and burn in non-EU markets.  FCA will simply not underwrite losses no matter what the brand history, and the poor sales of the 4C model will make the marque easy to kill (expect Guila to be little better if it even arrives...).  Buyers therefore need to factor the good probability of an orphan car.  OTOH Lotus has similarly orphaned many of its markets, and Elises etc. still hold decent used values, so... yes


    --

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    I'm really considering a spider, it is exotic fun to drive and a fast little one.

    The fact is that the brand has only made shit cars in the last 30 years, and all the normal people don't remember the past gloriuos cars.

    The young people just see in alfa a fiat that is it. no special heritage feeling. 

    Just the one in my age 44 and who loves cars can love a 4c.

    I drove it 2 times and I really think it is the most fun car if compared to elise, boxster and the similar ones.I say the most fun , not the best. I would not even consider a boxster for pure fun. 

    But this is me.


    --

    993 c2


     
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