Crown

Board: Porsche - 911 - 997 Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    carrera 4/4s, are they actually bought or sold in so cal?

    living in so. CA it amazes me how many people actually drive c4's. i've come to the conclusion that these cars actually sold, not bought to 1st time porsche buyers thinking 'more money means better.' these people just don't understand in year round warm weather AWD is useless. only 2 guys i've met with a c4 really needed one...the first keeps a 2nd home in mammoth (a ski area) and the 2nd just relocated from aspen. any purists care to comment?

    Re: carrera 4/4s, are they actually bought or sold in so cal?

    Agree that 90%+ of buyers of new P/F are guys who prob don't know much about sportscars and are simply trying to buy status and a youthful image....more expensive/wider/bigger wheels/louder exhaust is better, right?

    Seriously, though LA arguably enjoys world's best weather, it does rain a fair amt in winter...conds where AWD provides another layer of active safety; and, even in LA's near-perfect non-rainy, non-wintertime weather, during many early AM's in coastal mtn twisties, one may encounter a few damp patches, esp in foggy coastal zones....again, another layer of active safety w/AWD....

    Given pricing of well-spec'd 997C4S, I suspect many astute buyers in CA are simply opting for either 997C2S or will get 997TT, thus the reportedly soft 997C4S sales....

    Re: carrera 4/4s, are they actually bought or sold in so cal?

    Personally, I never understood why there are so many C4/C4S in Southern Cal. It maybe rains 30 days a year (last year was the exception and not the rule). And it's not like these guys are driving up to Mammouth or Tahoe in their 911s - don't see many ski racks on 911s. I've always assumed that they are either first time owners and/or just going on the theory that more expensive = better. You'd think they'd go for the C2, which has more trunk space.

    Re: carrera 4/4s, are they actually bought or sold in so cal?

    looks better

    Re: carrera 4/4s, are they actually bought or sold in so cal?

    I can't agree with the premise that it is first time buyers, or "more expensive=better" mentality. Or even that C4/C4S are only for the snow. I feel this is a common misconception that the Four is for snow bound people. From my research, etc, I have learned that a good set of winter tires on a C2 will take down a Four in the snow, if the 4 is equipped only with summer tires, (if the 4 is also equipped with winter tires, it will obviously then have the acceleration advantage [this has been discussed ad nauseam somewhere around here]).

    The 4 has a traction advantage in many different circumstance, not limited to wet/snow. Reading about Walter Rohl and the press introduction to the C4 in Monte Carlo (in Excellence Magazine, #141 Oct. '05) opened my eyes to what the 4 can accomplish on dry, curvy roads. Gripping, accelerating, and pulling the car through the turn, gets Walter on the straight path more quickly, and quicker is better, to me.

    Also, the new 4, along with the "safety net" of AWD has two more improved braking scenarios than the C2/2S... Something some us fathers might appreciate more than others.

    I think these generalizations are bogus. I'll take a 997TT, oh, wait, that has AWD.

    I do need the extra trunk space, so maybe a C2S will have to suffice

    Re: carrera 4/4s, are they actually bought or sold in so cal?

    Quote:
    Butzi (Chef_jmr) said:
    I feel this is a common misconception that the Four is for snow bound people.

    The 4 has a traction advantage in many different circumstance, not limited to wet/snow. Reading about Walter Rohl and the press introduction to the C4 in Monte Carlo (in Excellence Magazine, #141 Oct. '05) opened my eyes to what the 4 can accomplish on dry, curvy roads. Gripping, accelerating, and pulling the car through the turn, gets Walter on the straight path more quickly, and quicker is better, to me.




    Well said Carrera 4wd are not meant to be snowmobiles, though they provide some advantage on slippery tarmac. It's just another drivetrain-concept, providing less "go-kartish" drivefeel (I think that's the main reason why some people prefer the RWD Carrera) but better traction (there is a reason why most rallye cars are 4WD).

    Can't believe that most C4 owners just buy it as a prestige statement, because most non P-emthusiasts don't realize the difference at all.

    Re: carrera 4/4s, are they actually bought or sold in so cal?

    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:

    Can't believe that most C4 owners just buy it as a prestige statement,



    That's because you don't know this town.....everything here is a function of a prestige statement....pretty nauseating really!!!

    Re: carrera 4/4s, are they actually bought or sold in so cal?

    Come on guys it is """LA""" or """OC""" we are talking about!!!!

    Re: carrera 4/4s, are they actually bought or sold in so cal?

    Quote:
    jfraser said:
    everything here is a function of a prestige statement....pretty nauseating really!!!



    In this case F-car comes to my mind, not C4

    Re: carrera 4/4s, are they actually bought or sold in so cal?

    I have a second home at Tahoe and would never think of driving my Turbo , even with something like Nokian WR tires, up there or around there during snow season . Car sits too low to navigate side roads and the accumulation of ice in the tight front wheels wells makes turning a challenge ! Then there are all the potholes hidden by snow and the blasting by the sand laid down on I80 by CalTrans workers.

    Re: carrera 4/4s, are they actually bought or sold in so cal?

    Hey maybe the person who buys a C4 or C4S buys it because they like the car. Maybe they like the feel of driving a 4 wheel drive car no matter if it is sunny, raining, snowing, etc. I did a few test drives in a C4S and thought it was fun to drive.

    How silly of us not to have sought your wise counsel...


    before making such a silly purchase!

    I can't imagine how we got this far without your intervention!

    Re: How silly of us not to have sought your wise counsel...

    guess you're one of them

    cheers

    Re: carrera 4/4s, are they actually bought or sold in so cal?

    Quote:
    wangt1015 said:
    Come on guys it is """LA""" or """OC""" we are talking about!!!!



    Exactly!

    Re: carrera 4/4s, are they actually bought or sold in so cal?

    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    Quote:
    Butzi (Chef_jmr) said:
    I feel this is a common misconception that the Four is for snow bound people.

    The 4 has a traction advantage in many different circumstance, not limited to wet/snow. Reading about Walter Rohl and the press introduction to the C4 in Monte Carlo (in Excellence Magazine, #141 Oct. '05) opened my eyes to what the 4 can accomplish on dry, curvy roads. Gripping, accelerating, and pulling the car through the turn, gets Walter on the straight path more quickly, and quicker is better, to me.




    Well said Carrera 4wd are not meant to be snowmobiles, though they provide some advantage on slippery tarmac. It's just another drivetrain-concept, providing less "go-kartish" drivefeel (I think that's the main reason why some people prefer the RWD Carrera) but better traction (there is a reason why most rallye cars are 4WD).

    Can't believe that most C4 owners just buy it as a prestige statement, because most non P-emthusiasts don't realize the difference at all.



    Yes, indeed!


    I LOVE the way it drives and looks.


    Re: carrera 4/4s, are they actually bought or sold in so cal?

    Some people still fear the rear engine configuration, and so take awd to feel confident.

    Re: carrera 4/4s, are they actually bought or sold in so cal?

    doesn't someone have to be a '1st time buyer' before becoming like the many seasoned buyers here?

    Re: carrera 4/4s, are they actually bought or sold in so cal?

    Yeah, it's quite funny how some folks seem to look down their nose if you don't spec your baby as they would, or if you're a 1st time buyer or...

    Cheers! We're blessed to be able to have such fine machines.


    Re: carrera 4/4s, are they actually bought or sold in so cal?

    Why don't you ask all the people in So.Cal why they drive SUV's, Audi's, Benz's, Bently's, Lambo's....etc, with AWD??

    Re: carrera 4/4s, are they actually bought or sold in so cal?

    What a stupid statement, to simply paint everyone who lives in a 'non-winter environment' - with the same silly brush.

    I purchased a c4s because I prefer the handling a hell of a lot more than a c2s. Why don't you at least take a c4s for a test drive around some bends and twists, compare the traction and then make a sweeping judgement. Crikey.


    "I think you are just jealous of us c4s owners because you can't afford one."....How's that for another stupid statement?



    Re: carrera 4/4s, are they actually bought or sold in so cal?

    Quote:
    mish said:
    What a stupid statement, to simply paint everyone who lives in a 'non-winter environment' - with the same silly brush.

    I purchased a c4s because I prefer the handling a hell of a lot more than a c2s. Why don't you at least take a c4s for a test drive around some bends and twists, compare the traction and then make a sweeping judgement. Crikey.


    "I think you are just jealous of us c4s owners because you can't afford one."....How's that for another stupid statement?






    A lot of people think that the 997 C4S has much understeer and doesn't drive sporty. I never drove a 996 C4, I owned a 996 tt. The 996 tt had a little understeer, my 997 C4S (-20 mm, LSD) with Bridgstone is totally neutral. Neutral means faster then oversteer or understeer. Some people like oversteer, also a 997 C2S with Michelin (I have driven) has more understeer then my C4S. I have heard that a 996 C4 was like a fat pig, I couldn't comment this. As far as Porsche and Walter Rörhl has commented the C4S is faster then a C2S. Porsche claimed this for Nordschleife, Walter for twists.
    The new 997 C4S has only 5% on the front axle, this is for stability reason. So you don't feel it much on the steering wheel, but you feel the straight stability this car has. On twists you would see the real difference between the C2S and C4S.

    If I had to choose again, it would be either a 997 tt or 997 C4S with X51.

    AM

    Re: carrera 4/4s, are they actually bought or sold in so cal?

    Yep....the other day, my friend and I were driving around some deserted roads with lots of nice twists, turns and bends....I was in my 997 c4s cab - he was in a 997 c2s cab. Half way through, we decided to swap and drive the same route using different cars.

    There was a HUGE difference.

    I was astounded at how much more traction and overall how much more comfortable the c4s felt at higher speeds around twists and bends. Even my friend admitted that the handling was awesome and a totally different driving experience from his c2. It just goes to prove, the c4s is NOT just a 'winter' car, it's a great choice for those who want to feel as connected to the road as they possibly can.


    P.s The 996 c4s is NOT EVEN CLOSE to the 997 c4s.

    Re: carrera 4/4s, are they actually bought or sold in so cal

    here you go...

    great video that makes you say hmm ain't so cali

    audi, lambo, c4 snow video.

    Re: carrera 4/4s, are they actually bought or sold in so cal

    Quote:
    jmorod said:
    here you go...

    great video that makes you say hmm ain't so cali

    audi, lambo, c4 snow video.




    Nice video, but what's the verdicts? Which one was the best?


    Re: carrera 4/4s, are they actually bought or sold in so cal

    An average driver will feel that a C4 is more surefooted than a C2 for several reasons: the extra weight up front is a familiar feeling since almost every other car available has more weight up front. The light front end of a 911 is unfamiliar to most, and nobody likes what's unfamiliar. At the same time, that is one of the reasons that 911's have the incredibly accurate steering and steering feel that they are known for. Secondly, and I am theorizing here, b/c I haven't driven a 997 C4 (but I have in the 996 series) - it is hard to understand how understeer coud have significantly been reduced in the 997 C4 given the FAT rear tires that it has. Cars that tend to understeer feel more comfortable to most drivers. The less likely a car is to oversteer, the more people will consider it "sure footed.

    I've been following these C2 vs C4 posts for a long time, and there seems to now be pretty good consensus that a C2 has more communicative steering than a C4, and is more "tossable" (ie. easier for you the driver to get it to change directions quickly and play with it's inherent handling characteristics).

    There is one fact that seems poorly addressed: if AWD is really "better", then why isn't it available on the Carrera GT, GT2, and GT3? The key is probably that this debate, which I have really enjoyed, is flawed - the question is not of one being better than the other. AWD and RWD will have different driving characteristics, and it is up to the individual to decide which they prefer.

    There is a price to be paid for AWD (and in some circumstances, RWD will perform less well than AWD), and most people don't appreciate that. What they do see is (1) more money means it must be better (2) AWD must be better than 2wd (3) C4S = more status (just look and see how many people are disappointed that the C4 isn't as visually distinct from the C2 in the 997 series . . . ). I'm not pointing any fingers at anyone on this thread or in this forum, but only speaking in general about the average Porsche buyer.

    Even if I decided that I wanted AWD, I wouldn't get a C4 at this point since it's likely that the new AWD system in the TT will be available in the C4, and it should help to reduce weight, especially up front, while also providing more variability in the torque distribution.

    Re: carrera 4/4s, are they actually bought or sold in so cal

    Drive 'em both, buy what you like. It's your car who cares what everyone else thinks. The nice thing about Porsche is YOU get to make the choice.

    Re: carrera 4/4s, are they actually bought or sold in so cal

    Quote:
    Silver Bullet said:
    There is one fact that seems poorly addressed: if AWD is really "better", then why isn't it available on the Carrera GT, GT2, and GT3?



    Because these cars feel better on track, AWD feels better on everyday roads.

    Re: carrera 4/4s, are they actually bought or sold in so cal

    Quote:
    matpop said:
    Quote:
    Silver Bullet said:
    There is one fact that seems poorly addressed: if AWD is really "better", then why isn't it available on the Carrera GT, GT2, and GT3?



    Because these cars feel better on track, AWD feels better on everyday roads.



    Can you explain why that is? I mean, why wouldn't AWD feel good on a track too? And if RWD feels better on a track, why wouldn't it feel better on regular roads as well? The issue shouldn't be confused with a discussion regarding suspension - just AWD vs RWD.

    Re: carrera 4/4s, are they actually bought or sold in so cal

    Quote:
    Silver Bullet said:
    An average driver will feel that a C4 is more surefooted than a C2 for several reasons: the extra weight up front is a familiar feeling since almost every other car available has more weight up front. The light front end of a 911 is unfamiliar to most, and nobody likes what's unfamiliar. At the same time, that is one of the reasons that 911's have the incredibly accurate steering and steering feel that they are known for. Secondly, and I am theorizing here, b/c I haven't driven a 997 C4 (but I have in the 996 series) - it is hard to understand how understeer coud have significantly been reduced in the 997 C4 given the FAT rear tires that it has. Cars that tend to understeer feel more comfortable to most drivers. The less likely a car is to oversteer, the more people will consider it "sure footed.

    I've been following these C2 vs C4 posts for a long time, and there seems to now be pretty good consensus that a C2 has more communicative steering than a C4, and is more "tossable" (ie. easier for you the driver to get it to change directions quickly and play with it's inherent handling characteristics).

    There is one fact that seems poorly addressed: if AWD is really "better", then why isn't it available on the Carrera GT, GT2, and GT3? The key is probably that this debate, which I have really enjoyed, is flawed - the question is not of one being better than the other. AWD and RWD will have different driving characteristics, and it is up to the individual to decide which they prefer.

    There is a price to be paid for AWD (and in some circumstances, RWD will perform less well than AWD), and most people don't appreciate that. What they do see is (1) more money means it must be better (2) AWD must be better than 2wd (3) C4S = more status (just look and see how many people are disappointed that the C4 isn't as visually distinct from the C2 in the 997 series . . . ). I'm not pointing any fingers at anyone on this thread or in this forum, but only speaking in general about the average Porsche buyer.

    Even if I decided that I wanted AWD, I wouldn't get a C4 at this point since it's likely that the new AWD system in the TT will be available in the C4, and it should help to reduce weight, especially up front, while also providing more variability in the torque distribution.





    I am a very happy c4s owner....and yes, it would be nice to have the car to be visually different from the c2 simply because it IS a different model. The Turbo, The GTs each look different so why doesn't the C4? If you paid an extra lot of cash for a Turbo, you too would probably expect a more radical design to at least distinguish it from its cousins. It's lazy, cost effective designing from Porsche if you ask me.

    Having said that, the C4s looks gorgeous as is - and kicks the c2's butt on straight handling and even (according to Top Gear's Stig) on the track! I'll happily take that over the quirky, unstable, light fronted c2.


    Re: carrera 4/4s, are they actually bought or sold in so cal?

    Living in snowy Sweden, and having driven a C2 several times in snow, I can vouch that the 2WD car is more than capable enough in winter weather. So a C4 is not really necessary even in colder climates.

     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 5/18/22 6:36 PM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    628460 1306
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020) 8/6/22 1:00 AM
    W8MM
    264059 1183
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 10/2/22 12:14 AM
    watt
    158944 1176
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 9/30/22 10:36 AM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    149808 418
    Porsche Sticky Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review 10/5/22 4:40 AM
    WhoopsyM
    132418 573
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Cayman GT4 RS (2021) 1/15/22 10:41 PM
    watt
    67405 1
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022 10/5/22 3:56 AM
    BONES
    3016 21
    Porsche Cayman GT4 10/5/21 7:04 PM
    Topspeed
    563091 3587
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 2/1/22 10:14 PM
    SSO.
    465735 3954
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 11/17/21 5:18 PM
    Rossi
    429620 3256
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 2/1/22 9:49 AM
    RCA
    421218 2655
    Porsche 992 GT3 10/2/22 8:38 AM
    GnilM
    410721 3717
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 7/30/22 11:46 AM
    Wonderbar
    176706 1446
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 9/30/22 6:31 PM
    Grant
    176537 774
    AMG AMG GT R 3/13/22 8:52 PM
    spudgun
    149523 834
    Lambo Aventador and SV 5/20/22 5:24 PM
    Topspeed
    145221 710
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 10/5/22 7:22 AM
    Carlos from SpainM
    139394 1839
    Porsche GT4RS 10/4/22 10:59 PM
    M3ike
    133629 1127
    Motor Sp. [2021] Formula 1 4/19/22 10:08 PM
    Leawood911
    113031 1590
    Others Bugatti Chiron 8/30/22 4:31 PM
    Josef
    108654 525
    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 6/12/22 5:09 PM
    watt
    106134 535
    BMW M BMW M2 Rumors 2/28/22 7:42 PM
    Topspeed
    94646 409
    Porsche Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour 9/25/22 5:17 PM
    blueflame
    89602 498
    Lambo Urus (SUV) 6/7/22 1:20 PM
    Topspeed
    88992 593
    Porsche Dave and Gnil @ Nürburgring Nordschleife 7/4/22 10:42 PM
    DaveGordon
    87432 722
    Others Corvette C8 7/18/22 12:40 PM
    WhoopsyM
    85478 443
    Motor Sp. [2022] Formula 1 10/4/22 7:14 PM
    thuggy
    70928 1377
    Lambo Huracán EVO STO 7/21/22 8:37 AM
    RCA
    58092 335
    Others Toyota Yaris GR 4/13/22 8:33 PM
    Grant
    58066 640
    Ferrari Wandered to the dark side 8/29/22 9:35 AM
    BiTurbo
    28916 418
    188 items found, displaying 1 to 30.