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    Re: If you had just one wish for the next generation 911, what would it be?

    GR:

    All 981/991 are too big IMO, especially the width.  The 986 wouldn't fit down the driveway of my last house so it was only when I moved that I could get one.  Even then, I had to build a new garage that was wider.  And my 987 is on the absolute limit for fitting into the parking spaces at work.  When I had a 991 loan car a while back, I couldn't open the door wide enough to get out. 

    Weird.... A 981 is only 2mm wider than a VW Golf 7 (1801mm vs. 1799mm). A 991 C2S is only 9mm wider....Smiley

    I never have any problems with my Boxster. 


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic
    2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
     


    Re: If you had just one wish for the next generation 911, what would it be?

    The Golf Mk7 is also too wide if you ask me.  But at least the shorter doors (on the 5 door) help with parking at work


    --

    Gen II Cayman S


    Re: If you had just one wish for the next generation 911, what would it be?

    FlatSix911:
    reginos:

    Stop the Turbo (and above)  and replace it a proper Ferrari mid engined rival.

    I'm sorry to disagree but for me that would be a crime. Killing 40 years of history like that?

    Thankfully I'm quite confident Porsche would not do such a thing.

    The Turbo is an icon. The fact that it looks more or less like a normal 911 but goes like a supercar is key to its appeal. They would lose many customers if they did that.

    I, for one, would be happy if they stuck to the evolutionary design and kept the car the same size OR smaller...but not 1cm longer or wider. More options made standard would be nice too.

    The original Turbo became an icon in a different era. Turbocharging was pioneered in road cars at that time, wings and bulged fenders were unusual and the difficult driving manners of the Turbo made it a legend. The turbo lag was followed by a deluge of power which only the experienced drivers could handle safely.

    Since the 996 the Turbos are safe GT cars, or rather in the absence of a proper GT car in the Porsche range they have been given GT characteristics. The legend has worn off.

    Porsche should keep the 911 range with the Carrera models (soon to turbocharged anyway) and top it with the GT cars. AT the same time offer a proper front engined GT car and a mid engined one to properly rival Ferrari and McLaren and whoever else.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: If you had just one wish for the next generation 911, what would it be?

    Reginos- I disagree with you.

    The Turbo is a unique value proposition in the sports car world. Getting rid of it makes no sense to me. I'm sure Porsche won't.

    Having daily-usable supercar performance in a 911 body is the genius of the Turbo.

    I would not have it any other way.


    Re: If you had just one wish for the next generation 911, what would it be?

    Has Porsche ever done a "real" customer survey to see what the sport car buyer really wants....I think not!


    Re: If you had just one wish for the next generation 911, what would it be?

    GR:

    All 981/991 are too big IMO, especially the width.  The 986 wouldn't fit down the driveway of my last house so it was only when I moved that I could get one.  Even then, I had to build a new garage that was wider.  And my 987 is on the absolute limit for fitting into the parking spaces at work.  When I had a 991 loan car a while back, I couldn't open the door wide enough to get out. 

    I'd add my name to the list of people who'd want a 911 to be no bigger and no heavier than a 993. But then, I do currently own a 993, so that's no surprise.  Smiley

    Having said that, your post above isn't so much an indictment of modern cars being bloated as it is of the fact that UK housing developers are allowed to get away with building totally inadequate private garages, causing people to use their garages just for storage and to park their cars on the driveway or even on the street.  Smiley
    When looking for a house in the UK, I ended up buying an older one which had had a more adequately sized double garage rebuilt next to it, as those sold with so many new houses would have driven me nuts due to their lack of room. This subject is always good for a rant from me.  Smiley

     


    --

    fritz


    Re: If you had just one wish for the next generation 911, what would it be?

    964C2:

    Has Porsche ever done a "real" customer survey to see what the sport car buyer really wants....I think not!

    The fact is that 911 sales numbers have increased considerably as the cars have become larger, heavier and more "comfortably" equipped.
    Customer surveys are carried out by marketing people. Marketing is judged by its ability to maximise sales figures and profits, not for an inclination to promote more "pure" products which might appeal to a smaller number of enthusiasts, like "real sports car" buyers.
    I'm not saying that this is a good thing, just that customer surveys are unlikely to support the case you want to make. 


    --

    fritz


    Re: If you had just one wish for the next generation 911, what would it be?

    FlatSix911:

    Reginos- I disagree with you.

    The Turbo is a unique value proposition in the sports car world. Getting rid of it makes no sense to me. I'm sure Porsche won't.

    Having daily-usable supercar performance in a 911 body is the genius of the Turbo.

    I would not have it any other way.

    If they could add the front engined GT and the mid-engined 960 in the range, then they could keep the Turbo if there is demand for it.

    But the 911 Turbo shouldn't give Porsche an alibi for not offering the correct cars in the respective segments.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: If you had just one wish for the next generation 911, what would it be?

    964C2:

    Has Porsche ever done a "real" customer survey to see what the sport car buyer really wants....I think not!

    Porsche customers vote with their money. IMO the marketplace is the real test of any product. Just look at the 911 and even the Boxster sales figures relative to the industry norms in those classes. Rivals should be drooling over the demand for the Porsche sports models relative to their own sales.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: If you had just one wish for the next generation 911, what would it be?

    fritz:
    Having said that, your post above isn't so much an indictment of modern cars being bloated as it is of the fact that UK housing developers are allowed to get away with building totally inadequate private garages, causing people to use their garages just for storage and to park their cars on the driveway or even on the street.  Smiley
    When looking for a house in the UK, I ended up buying an older one which had had a more adequately sized double garage rebuilt next to it, as those sold with so many new houses would have driven me nuts due to their lack of room. This subject is always good for a rant from me.  Smiley

     

    Funnily enough my first house was built in the 1930's and my current house in the 1950's.  Modern cars are bloated but modern housing and parking is inadequate too


    --

    Gen II Cayman S


    Re: If you had just one wish for the next generation 911, what would it be?

    GR:
    fritz:
    Having said that, your post above isn't so much an indictment of modern cars being bloated as it is of the fact that UK housing developers are allowed to get away with building totally inadequate private garages, causing people to use their garages just for storage and to park their cars on the driveway or even on the street.  Smiley
    When looking for a house in the UK, I ended up buying an older one which had had a more adequately sized double garage rebuilt next to it, as those sold with so many new houses would have driven me nuts due to their lack of room. This subject is always good for a rant from me.  Smiley

     

    Funnily enough my first house was built in the 1930's and my current house in the 1950's.  Modern cars are bloated but modern housing and parking is inadequate too


    This reminds me!

    I used to leave my Triumph Spitifire Mk IV in my uncle's garage in North London. That tiny car hardly fitted although not many other things were stored there. indecision


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: If you had just one wish for the next generation 911, what would it be?

    fritz:

    I'd add my name to the list of people who'd want a 911 to be no bigger and no heavier than a 993. But then, I do currently own a 993, so that's no surprise. ...

    Isn't it the case, though, that much of the increase in size of most cars, and the 911 as well, is due to safety regulations and the need to improve crash survival odds? In which case, it seems unlikely that the 911 (or most other cars) will shrink any time soon. And, objectively, as pointed out earlier, it's not exactly a big car today, exceptionally narrow driveways aside.


    Re: If you had just one wish for the next generation 911, what would it be?

    A better warranty - 10yr, 100K miles minimum.   It would help sales, resale value, force better engineering and make the dealers more profitable because they could finally justify the cost of the car.  People would also drive the car much more meaning that more would need to be built.  Perfectly logical.  Look at it in reverse - what if it had a one year, 12 month warranty - how many would buy it?  If my Sonata can have this type of warranty (on a $ 20K car) Porsche can do this as well - or do they have no faith in their product?

    This would be my ONE and ONLY wish!


    Re: If you had just one wish for the next generation 911, what would it be?

    Rennteamers may not represent majority of current 911 customers , who expect luxury features for a $ 100  to  200k .

    I would settle for something  that all manufacturers have done for a LONG time , and which Porsche itself did until 20 yrs ago ....equip ALL 911 s  standard with glare and reflection reducing dark dash top , door tops when spec'd with light  color interiors, even on the  base partial leather cars . Currently , one has to  upgrade for $$$$ leather interior for this two tone look  that is standard for even the cheapest  econoboxes 

    These current base  interiors, esp luxor, look like Grandpa's Oldsmobile from 30 yrs ago, with the light colored  steering wheel looking much darker than the rest of the interior after a few years of skin oils ...yucch.


    Re: If you had just one wish for the next generation 911, what would it be?

    Warranty is not a big issue, as you can get the extended warranty for up to 9 years by paying 1000 EUR p.a.

    A relatively small amount in the grand scheme of things.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: If you had just one wish for the next generation 911, what would it be?

    SuzyF:

    Size of the car is perfect. It's still a small car, hardly bigger than a VW Golf. Also, they can't make a 911 smaller than the Boxster/Cayman. That would be odd.... 

    Look up the sizes of the original Golf and the original 911 for comparison (including weight).  Cars have grown at a rapid rate.  Then drive an original GTi and 911S and sample what real (manual) steering feels like on a light car.

    No need to make 911 smaller than Boxster (those should be proportionately smaller too).


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: If you had just one wish for the next generation 911, what would it be?

    reginos:

    Warranty is not a big issue, as you can get the extended warranty for up to 9 years by paying 1000 EUR p.a.

    A relatively small amount in the grand scheme of things.


    --

    "Form follows function"

    and 60%+ is commission/profit.  So why not just include it and make it transferable?  It would speak to us who already feel the new cars are overpriced and depreciation of used cars out of warranty is over the top.


    Re: If you had just one wish for the next generation 911, what would it be?

    Grant:
    SuzyF:

    Size of the car is perfect. It's still a small car, hardly bigger than a VW Golf. Also, they can't make a 911 smaller than the Boxster/Cayman. That would be odd.... 

    Look up the sizes of the original Golf and the original 911 for comparison (including weight).  Cars have grown at a rapid rate.  Then drive an original GTi and 911S and sample what real (manual) steering feels like on a light car.

    No need to make 911 smaller than Boxster (those should be proportionately smaller too).

    True, but all cars have grown a lot over the years due to safety regulations and people wanting/needing more interior space.

    i'd rather drive a larger luxurious modern variant of any car han a tiny spartan and unsafe oldtimer. Not that I don't like oldtimers... I love them for what they are. Old cars....

    A 911 was, is and always will be a daily driveable sportscar. That means that it needs to have all the tech features and luxury of a luxurious sedan and be as close to a sportscar as it gets at the same time. Engineers have to make compromises to achieve that. 75% or more of the buyers don't really care about how the car is when driven at 7-10/10th, so that becomes less important.  The daily usabillity is much more important for most buyers. The tiny group of so called "purists" is not important for Porsche. They are always complaining about anything that changes and represent only a very small group of potential buyers. Not very interesting for the brand Porsche. Neither are we as Rennteam members... I couldn't care less about their or our opinion if it was my company. 


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic
    2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
     


    Re: If you had just one wish for the next generation 911, what would it be?

    Leawood911:
    reginos:

    Warranty is not a big issue, as you can get the extended warranty for up to 9 years by paying 1000 EUR p.a.

    A relatively small amount in the grand scheme of things.


    --

    "Form follows function"

    and 60%+ is commission/profit.  So why not just include it and make it transferable?  It would speak to us who already feel the new cars are overpriced and depreciation of used cars out of warranty is over the top.


    I asked the dealer if they get a share of the commission themselves and he said that Porsche don't give them anything because they are rewarded by having the car maintained within the network Smiley


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: If you had just one wish for the next generation 911, what would it be?

    SuzyF:
    Grant:

    The daily usabillity is much more important for most buyers. The tiny group of so called "purists" is not important for Porsche. They are always complaining about anything that changes and represent only a very small group of potential buyers. Not very interesting for the brand Porsche. Neither are we as Rennteam members... I couldn't care less about their or our opinion if it was my company. 

    911 over the years was never packed full of all the crap that you find in a BMW 7er or S-Klasse of the same year, like today.  It has been a massive shift (literally).  They will continue to lose customers like me (but maybe they don't care, as you said).  But at some point, I think they will have destroyed the brand and will no longer be able to justify the incredible margins they currently make on each car (living off a history that does not really exist in the present).


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: If you had just one wish for the next generation 911, what would it be?

    The least Porsche could do is to bring back floor hinged pedals.

    The current hanging ones combined with the very plain parking brake switch are just so "unspecial"  too ordinary and too cheap for a Porsche or for any sportscar in the 991's price range.

    And maybe a moratorium on PDK equipped 991s for two years.Smiley Yes it marginally quicker, but its dumbing down the whole car in the long run. And why not just dump the sport exhaust and instead have a standard exhaust that makes "sports" noise on a "sports car". Good grief!

     


    Re: If you had just one wish for the next generation 911, what would it be?

    Grant:
     

    911 over the years was never packed full of all the crap that you find in a BMW 7er or S-Klasse of the same year, like today.  It has been a massive shift (literally).  They will continue to lose customers like me (but maybe they don't care, as you said).  But at some point, I think they will have destroyed the brand and will no longer be able to justify the incredible margins they currently make on each car (living off a history that does not really exist in the present).


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

     

    On the contrary, the increased equipment level is the reason they can justify the higher price. 

    If they sell you a bare car that cost next to nothing to make, but maintain a price about the same as a fully loaded car, don't you feel getting ripped off?

     


    --

     


    Re: If you had just one wish for the next generation 911, what would it be?

    Whoopsy, Porsche has brand "magic" and they know it. Who else could sell one Carrera at under 100K and a upgraded version (TurboS) for 100K more. Now they sell a upgraded 45K Audi Q5 for 100k - Macan Turbo. No wonder Porsche's net operating profit is 18%!!! Oh well, they have the only game in town until things collapse or buyers say FU.


    Re: If you had just one wish for the next generation 911, what would it be?

    reginos:
    964C2:

    Has Porsche ever done a "real" customer survey to see what the sport car buyer really wants....I think not!

    Porsche customers vote with their money. IMO the marketplace is the real test of any product. Just look at the 911 and even the Boxster sales figures relative to the industry norms in those classes. Rivals should be drooling over the demand for the Porsche sports models relative to their own sales.


    --

    "Form follows function"

    I'm not arguing sales success.....because of brand cache Porsche sells whatever they feel like giving the market, not what a particular buyer (like many readers of Rennteam) might really want if given the choice.


    Re: If you had just one wish for the next generation 911, what would it be?

    Whoopsy:

    On the contrary, the increased equipment level is the reason they can justify the higher price. 

    If they sell you a bare car that cost next to nothing to make, but maintain a price about the same as a fully loaded car, don't you feel getting ripped off?

     

    I felt I was ripped off when I bought a 996.2 C2 with an engine that had a wet sump and no LSD.  It was way slower than my 40 year old 911 around a track and not 10% as fun.  I feel ripped off when a 6-figure sportscar stirs no emotions in me and the driver-car interface is lacking any involvement of the driver.  I can spend $25k on a new car and get all the bells and whistles.  A 911 is supposed to excite and challenge the driver - without that, there's no reason for me to buy it over the myriad of other "sporty" cars with better performance that cost less (like C7 Z06 with 625hp 635 ft-lbs for less than price of base 3.4L 991 with half the power and torque).


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: If you had just one wish for the next generation 911, what would it be?

    reginos:

    Warranty is not a big issue, as you can get the extended warranty for up to 9 years by paying 1000 EUR p.a.

    A relatively small amount in the grand scheme of things.

    "Form follows function"

     

    I diseagree. For a 911 its more like 1500€/year and upwards now, and every year gets more expensive... the extended warranty has become yet another rip off from Porsche, especially when they only give your 2 years to start with, when any cheap corean car is confident enough in its product to give 4, 6 or even more years of warranty.

    I know Porsche does it because they can get away with it, like many other things they do, but that doesn't change the point that warranty is another issue with Porsche from the customer's point of view.


    --


    Re: If you had just one wish for the next generation 911, what would it be?

    The warranty I paid in January was 1.360 EUR (not 1.000 EUR) for the 911 and 960 EUR for the Boxster, last August.

    It gives me peace of mind against very expensive breakdowns, especially engine and PDK, and I consider it as just another insurance policy out of the numerous I pay for my family and business covers. It doesn't affect my finances significantly and personally I wouldn't choose a car based on free warrantees and maintenance.

    Some manufacturers give free warranties to break through the market. The consumer is free to survey the market and choose. 


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: If you had just one wish for the next generation 911, what would it be?

    reginos:

    The warranty I paid in January was 1.360 EUR (not 1.000 EUR) for the 911 and 960 EUR for the Boxster, last August.

    It gives me peace of mind against very expensive breakdowns, especially engine and PDK, and I consider it as just another insurance policy out of the numerous I pay for my family and business covers. It doesn't affect my finances significantly and personally I wouldn't choose a car based on free warrantees and maintenance.

    Some manufacturers give free warranties to break through the market. The consumer is free to survey the market and choose. 


    --

    "Form follows function"

    Its more expensive here in Spain, I always got the warranty initially but I stopped getting it as I had a 997S atypically with no issues ever and every year they kept bumping up the price every year to the point that its blatantly overpirced, kind of insulting. I gambled but in the end I saved quite a bit of money since I stopped paying for it, By now I could pay for a new engine and still come out ahead. It was over 1500 a few years ago here, don't even want to know what it would be now...


    --


    Re: If you had just one wish for the next generation 911, what would it be?

    If I remember correctly, I was paying around 7000 Euros (maybe 6K?? can't remember) for the Ferrari Power Cube warranty on the 599 (per year). Ouch.

    With a gearbox replacement it paid for itself at least.

    ...but I agree; more extensive warranties show confidence in the product and that can only be a good thing.


    Re: If you had just one wish for the next generation 911, what would it be?

    I have been burned by every extended warranty I have bought.  Exactly twice - never again.  The problem in the US is that if you want a warranty on a used Porsche (or extend your warranty) from Porsche you have to buy the car from them. 

    The third party companies other than Porsche (and Porsche uses some of them!!) go out of business all the time.  I have lost at least 3K when two went out of business.  Thankfully I did not need them for major repairs.

    Not only is any warranty expensive but the price the Porsche dealer wants for the same car can be $10-30K more depending on the model - just to get an warranty which is extra! 

    Of course I also want to be able to drive a 911 sell it privately after seven years+ and still have a factory warranty in effect for the next owner.  Any idea how much that would save not only in warranty costs, ownership costs but also in depreciation???  For Porsche the cost would be minimal, show confidence and reward the dealers (increase their multiple) by bringing them MUCH more service and putting the squeeze on the independant shops who are currently stealing their customers, service work and best mechanics.  I imagine it would also keep more of the used car sales with the dealer as well because they would not be giving you such low trade in values.


     
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