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    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    AUM said:
    Ijust saw a car that will not be bothered too much by the competition. It is a 700Hp 800Nm 996 turbo with full CF body, minus 160 kg, and 10 cm wider. CGT seats, 380 mm race brakes, etc, etc. But no A/c and a bit noisy for long distance travel.



    Full CF body? So each little dent costs 10000 Euro to repair?



    From what I hear, the body kit cost about 25.000 EUR ...

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    25000 Euro seem way to low.
    Only painting all this parts will cost more than 25k.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    dhayek said:
    time have changed..
    i will never buy a zo6 ,not my kind of car but i have to admit ,a car that is that fast and that accesible is an annoying fact. ten years ago when i bought my 993tt,i was the king of the road , by far ;the closest competitor was the 355 who was damn slow compared to the tt. now competiton has become fierce! if i had a murcielago there is plenty of cars that is or as fast or faster(599,enzo,pagani,gt40 etc..) and now i own a Gallardo and still there is 997tt,z06,430,gt3,m5,m6etc... i have to learn to look good in my rear view mirror to see if its a c6 or a z06 ,a m5 or an 523...
    weird days..





    Very, very true....It's a great thing for everybody. The more competition the better for anyone that loves and owns high end sports cars imo. Unless the most important thing to you is being the fastest guy on the block without a doubt. For me it's more about the experience I get driving a twisty road when there's no one else around. Not even a passenger.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Quote:
    dhayek said:
    time have changed..
    i will never buy a zo6 ,not my kind of car but i have to admit ,a car that is that fast and that accesible is an annoying fact. ten years ago when i bought my 993tt,i was the king of the road , by far ;the closest competitor was the 355 who was damn slow compared to the tt. now competiton has become fierce! if i had a murcielago there is plenty of cars that is or as fast or faster(599,enzo,pagani,gt40 etc..) and now i own a Gallardo and still there is 997tt,z06,430,gt3,m5,m6etc... i have to learn to look good in my rear view mirror to see if its a c6 or a z06 ,a m5 or an 523...
    weird days..





    Very, very true....It's a great thing for everybody. The more competition the better for anyone that loves and owns high end sports cars imo. Unless the most important thing to you is being the fastest guy on the block without a doubt. For me it's more about the experience I get driving a twisty road when there's no one else around. Not even a passenger.


    I agree. I hope the GT2 is better than the Z06 by far. Then the new super vette will have to be better than the GT2 and so on and so on....... It's a great time to be a car guy.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    If the GT2 follows the 996GT2 it should be about 10s quicker. I'm not sure that Chevy can continue with this leap frog approach though. Considered their company situation and such..and the rumor that the ZO6 is sold at a loss to Chevy to hold up image. It might be hard to get board approval when the bottom line is well in the red ink! Porsche was in this situation back in the early 90's. I hope Chevy/GM can get through all this, it would be a shame to loose the Z06 and future high end Corvetts. Maybe they could just sell the Vetts at a respectable profit level and continue, I'm sure they would sell well even if closer to the Porsche cost.

    I think the Z06 is a direct result of the US Viper dominance, Chevy did not want to be outdone by Dodge. Maybe Dodge will come back with a Super Viper, and maybe Ford will produce a Super Mustang as well as the GT40.

    Like 355Spider said "It's a great time to be a car guy".

    Mike

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    AUM said:
    Ijust saw a car that will not be bothered too much by the competition. It is a 700Hp 800Nm 996 turbo with full CF body, minus 160 kg, and 10 cm wider. CGT seats, 380 mm race brakes, etc, etc. But no A/c and a bit noisy for long distance travel.



    Manthey?



    Yes. Mr Manthey told me the mods cost 170,000 euro.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    355Spider said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Quote:
    dhayek said:
    time have changed..
    i will never buy a zo6 ,not my kind of car but i have to admit ,a car that is that fast and that accesible is an annoying fact. ten years ago when i bought my 993tt,i was the king of the road , by far ;the closest competitor was the 355 who was damn slow compared to the tt. now competiton has become fierce! if i had a murcielago there is plenty of cars that is or as fast or faster(599,enzo,pagani,gt40 etc..) and now i own a Gallardo and still there is 997tt,z06,430,gt3,m5,m6etc... i have to learn to look good in my rear view mirror to see if its a c6 or a z06 ,a m5 or an 523...
    weird days..





    Very, very true....It's a great thing for everybody. The more competition the better for anyone that loves and owns high end sports cars imo. Unless the most important thing to you is being the fastest guy on the block without a doubt. For me it's more about the experience I get driving a twisty road when there's no one else around. Not even a passenger.


    I agree. I hope the GT2 is better than the Z06 by far. Then the new super vette will have to be better than the GT2 and so on and so on....... It's a great time to be a car guy.



    I've been a corvette guy all my life. I really hope for the best with this new super vette. But if they don't do something like mid engine or all wheel drive this 600+ hp car will NEVER hook up at the line. Driving a stock Z06 is like trying to sprint on an ice patch. Can't just dig in and go.. Worthless power in my opinion.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    Tony007 said:
    Quote:
    355Spider said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Quote:
    dhayek said:
    time have changed..
    i will never buy a zo6 ,not my kind of car but i have to admit ,a car that is that fast and that accesible is an annoying fact. ten years ago when i bought my 993tt,i was the king of the road , by far ;the closest competitor was the 355 who was damn slow compared to the tt. now competiton has become fierce! if i had a murcielago there is plenty of cars that is or as fast or faster(599,enzo,pagani,gt40 etc..) and now i own a Gallardo and still there is 997tt,z06,430,gt3,m5,m6etc... i have to learn to look good in my rear view mirror to see if its a c6 or a z06 ,a m5 or an 523...
    weird days..





    Very, very true....It's a great thing for everybody. The more competition the better for anyone that loves and owns high end sports cars imo. Unless the most important thing to you is being the fastest guy on the block without a doubt. For me it's more about the experience I get driving a twisty road when there's no one else around. Not even a passenger.


    I agree. I hope the GT2 is better than the Z06 by far. Then the new super vette will have to be better than the GT2 and so on and so on....... It's a great time to be a car guy.



    I've been a corvette guy all my life. I really hope for the best with this new super vette. But if they don't do something like mid engine or all wheel drive this 600+ hp car will NEVER hook up at the line. Driving a stock Z06 is like trying to sprint on an ice patch. Can't just dig in and go.. Worthless power in my opinion.



    My Z is lowered, has headers and is dynotuned...almost 600HP...worthlss power??? I have no problem digging in and going...but I have been driving a stick all of my life...its really easy once you get the hang of it.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    RonnieC6Z said:
    Quote:
    Tony007 said:
    Quote:
    355Spider said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Quote:
    dhayek said:
    time have changed..
    i will never buy a zo6 ,not my kind of car but i have to admit ,a car that is that fast and that accesible is an annoying fact. ten years ago when i bought my 993tt,i was the king of the road , by far ;the closest competitor was the 355 who was damn slow compared to the tt. now competiton has become fierce! if i had a murcielago there is plenty of cars that is or as fast or faster(599,enzo,pagani,gt40 etc..) and now i own a Gallardo and still there is 997tt,z06,430,gt3,m5,m6etc... i have to learn to look good in my rear view mirror to see if its a c6 or a z06 ,a m5 or an 523...
    weird days..





    Very, very true....It's a great thing for everybody. The more competition the better for anyone that loves and owns high end sports cars imo. Unless the most important thing to you is being the fastest guy on the block without a doubt. For me it's more about the experience I get driving a twisty road when there's no one else around. Not even a passenger.


    I agree. I hope the GT2 is better than the Z06 by far. Then the new super vette will have to be better than the GT2 and so on and so on....... It's a great time to be a car guy.



    I've been a corvette guy all my life. I really hope for the best with this new super vette. But if they don't do something like mid engine or all wheel drive this 600+ hp car will NEVER hook up at the line. Driving a stock Z06 is like trying to sprint on an ice patch. Can't just dig in and go.. Worthless power in my opinion.



    My Z is lowered, has headers and is dynotuned...almost 600HP...worthlss power??? I have no problem digging in and going...but I have been driving a stick all of my life...its really easy once you get the hang of it.



    Yes indeed, worthless power.. My 04 Z06 with procharger had 496rwhp. Press the gas in first gear with the car just idling and the car would spin uncontrollably, same thing in second gear. It is a complete joke. Took off the procharger and learned a very valuable lesson about adding power to a car that doesn't grab. Well almost, my CLS55 has 630fwhp / 512rwhp & 730fwtq & 596rwtq. Same thing - no grab on the street whatsoever!!

    My best trap in the quarter with procharger & rediculous levels of spin was 126.8 mph> Imagine what the car could be capable of with REAL TRACTION..

    Regardless what others say about the new Z06 I still regard it very highly. It would be my first choice if the 997TT was unavailable.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    It's funny that it is mostly americans comparing the Z06 to porsche. Here in europe we hardly consider it as an option to porsche...
    Because porsche is so much more than just performance...

    Imagine how much horspower could get porsche with a V8 7.0 liter engine. Certainly much more than 500 HP.

    It is the first time GM makes something performance wise with the competition. Took them long enough...But they needed many liters to get it on par.

    Any how the Z06 is a great car at a great price, however, it is hardly comparble to a 997 TT except performance wise.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    polo said:
    It's funny that it is mostly americans comparing the Z06 to porsche. Here in europe we hardly consider it as an option to porsche...
    Because porsche is so much more than just performance...

    Imagine how much horspower could get porsche with a V8 7.0 liter engine. Certainly much more than 500 HP.

    It is the first time GM makes something performance wise with the competition. Took them long enough...But they needed many liters to get it on par.

    Any how the Z06 is a great car at a great price, however, it is hardly comparble to a 997 TT except performance wise.



    You can say this a thousand times and it won't matter to them. Just the mere fact of being able to tell you, a Porsche owner, that their car is as fast as yours, gives them immense pleasure.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    polo said:
    It's funny that it is mostly americans comparing the Z06 to porsche. Here in europe we hardly consider it as an option to porsche...
    Because porsche is so much more than just performance...

    Imagine how much horspower could get porsche with a V8 7.0 liter engine. Certainly much more than 500 HP.

    It is the first time GM makes something performance wise with the competition. Took them long enough...But they needed many liters to get it on par.

    Any how the Z06 is a great car at a great price, however, it is hardly comparble to a 997 TT except performance wise.



    Brother, that's what I've been saying all along. I couldn't agree more.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    It seems here in the US GM, Chysler & Ford can't figure out how to get reliable HP from a small displacement engine. Don't know why.

    Mike

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    RonnieC6Z said:
    Quote:
    Dock (Atlanta) said:
    Quote:
    RonnieC6Z said:
    Here in the US (Porsches #1 target market), generally speaking, Vettes are driven by guys that love speed, performance and balls-to-the-wall thrills, and Porsches are driven by exactly what I stated above.



    And what data source did you use to come up with that information?



    Funny...you did not ask RC the same question when he said that Pimps drive Vettes in Germany.



    Sorry Ronnie, but I have to diagree. Most buy it because it's cheap speed, and, unfortunately, cheap everywhere else too.
    Like someone else has posted can you even fathom what porsche could do with 7 liters of displacement.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    devo said:
    Quote:
    polo said:
    It's funny that it is mostly americans comparing the Z06 to porsche. Here in europe we hardly consider it as an option to porsche...
    Because porsche is so much more than just performance...

    Imagine how much horspower could get porsche with a V8 7.0 liter engine. Certainly much more than 500 HP.

    It is the first time GM makes something performance wise with the competition. Took them long enough...But they needed many liters to get it on par.

    Any how the Z06 is a great car at a great price, however, it is hardly comparble to a 997 TT except performance wise.



    Brother, that's what I've been saying all along. I couldn't agree more.




    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Devo

    Porsche 917/30 back in 73 had a "big block" at 5.4L and was getting "1100bhp though flash readings of 1500bhp and more" from McCarthy's book. These cars litterly killed the CanAm series.

    Mike

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    polo said:
    It's funny that it is mostly americans comparing the Z06 to porsche. Here in europe we hardly consider it as an option to porsche...
    Because porsche is so much more than just performance...

    Imagine how much horspower could get porsche with a V8 7.0 liter engine. Certainly much more than 500 HP.

    It is the first time GM makes something performance wise with the competition. Took them long enough...But they needed many liters to get it on par.

    Any how the Z06 is a great car at a great price, however, it is hardly comparble to a 997 TT except performance wise.



    You can say this a thousand times and it won't matter to them. Just the mere fact of being able to tell you, a Porsche owner, that their car is as fast as yours, gives them immense pleasure.



    Some of them don't need much then :

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Crash and Polo, maybe I can explain the culture gap about this. In Europe high performance cars and racing began as a rich mans sport, like - Polo and Horses. Look in Porsches biography and he states that he was after the "carriage" trade and so was Enzo.

    In the US sports cars grew from the middles class.So the
    elements of upper class prestige, elegance and luxury presence was not as critcal for the large US sports cars market. Performance was always more important than the combined package.

    So the very rich here will consider a Corvette, as class disinction is not as important here- while the very rich of Europe would probably never consider a Corvette. We remain though the largest single markets for Ferrari, Lamborghini
    and Porsche. But here people will cross shop or buy both.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    devo said:
    Quote:
    RonnieC6Z said:
    Quote:
    Dock (Atlanta) said:
    Quote:
    RonnieC6Z said:
    Here in the US (Porsches #1 target market), generally speaking, Vettes are driven by guys that love speed, performance and balls-to-the-wall thrills, and Porsches are driven by exactly what I stated above.



    And what data source did you use to come up with that information?



    Funny...you did not ask RC the same question when he said that Pimps drive Vettes in Germany.



    Sorry Ronnie, but I have to diagree. Most buy it because it's cheap speed, and, unfortunately, cheap everywhere else too.
    Like someone else has posted can you even fathom what porsche could do with 7 liters of displacement.



    Couldn't agree more

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    I recall reading (perhaps on this website!) that the current 3.6 turbo engine can be coaxed to 700 HP. The concerns are 1) cooling at that output and 2) the tranny can't cope with the power. A 700 HP TT would be a monster.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Porsche wont make a 7 litre sports car. They simply dont have the balls to. Simple. Their focus is on the effete,
    and marketing the 911 shape when it comes to production cars.

    Look what racing classes the Porsche production cars run in - all slower than Corvette, Aston and Maserati.

    Why? Go Look!

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Crash and Polo, maybe I can explain the culture gap about this. In Europe high performance cars and racing began as a rich mans sport, like - Polo and Horses. Look in Porsches biography and he states that he was after the "carriage" trade and so was Enzo.

    In the US sports cars grew from the middles class.So the
    elements of upper class prestige, elegance and luxury presence was not as critcal for the large US sports cars market. Performance was always more important than the combined package.

    So the very rich here will consider a Corvette, as class disinction is not as important here- while the very rich of Europe would probably never consider a Corvette. We remain though the largest single markets for Ferrari, Lamborghini
    and Porsche. But here people will cross shop or buy both.



    Agreed, people will cross shop. I would consider a Z06 as a weekend missile/blvd. drag racer, whatever. However, I would only consider it if I wasn't fortunate enough to be able to but a 997tt or was wealthy enough to have both.
    The problem with the latter, is that if I were that weathly, I probably wouldn't own the Z06 because my other cars would be Ferrari and lambo.
    I still say that it's a car for those who don't want to spend the extra bucks or can't, and there's nothing wrong with that.
    What bothers me is that many Chevy owners want to tout there speed superiority-whether speculative or not-because they can say that their Corvette beat the best that Europe has to offer. Just admit it, the z is blindingly fast, but it's not as well built, engineered or concieved.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Porsche wont make a 7 litre sports car. They simply dont have the balls to. Simple. Their focus is on the effete,
    and marketing the 911 shape when it comes to production cars.

    Look what racing classes the Porsche production cars run in - all slower than Corvette, Aston and Maserati.

    Why? Go Look!



    You keep talking speed, like that's all that matters when buying a high end STREET car. There are so many intangibles when it comes driving. Just because one might have the fastest car doesn't mean it's the most fun.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    polo said:
    It's funny that it is mostly americans comparing the Z06 to porsche. Here in europe we hardly consider it as an option to porsche...
    Because porsche is so much more than just performance...

    Imagine how much horspower could get porsche with a V8 7.0 liter engine. Certainly much more than 500 HP.

    It is the first time GM makes something performance wise with the competition. Took them long enough...But they needed many liters to get it on par.

    Any how the Z06 is a great car at a great price, however, it is hardly comparble to a 997 TT except performance wise.


    And imagine how much horsepower a Z06 would make with a multivalve twin turbo enigine. That's a rediculous argument. The Z06s engine is smaller than the M5s 5.0. It's lighter. It costs less. It has more torque. And it gets 28mpg on the freeway with less stress thus making the engine last longer. Yeah I guess that makes it inferior. This thinking that somehow more valves, more weight and more expense in the engine somehow makes it better is rediculous.
    I'm a rabbid Ferrari fan but they have to spend gobs of uneccessary money to make the car fast. GM didn't. SO would that make them better worse? Not so good of an argument.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    polo said:
    It's funny that it is mostly americans comparing the Z06 to porsche. Here in europe we hardly consider it as an option to porsche...
    Because porsche is so much more than just performance...

    Imagine how much horspower could get porsche with a V8 7.0 liter engine. Certainly much more than 500 HP.

    It is the first time GM makes something performance wise with the competition. Took them long enough...But they needed many liters to get it on par.

    Any how the Z06 is a great car at a great price, however, it is hardly comparble to a 997 TT except performance wise.



    Let me give you and idea as to how truly clueless you people are when you say that, except for performance, how the Z just cannot compare to the Porsche. I am very much into detailing cars. I detail my Z and also my buddys 05 996 Turbo S. I know every nook and cranny on both cars. The fit and finish on the exterior of the Turbo is not any better than the Z. Secondly, he has had 3 Turbo Porsches in the last 7 years and they have been in the shop constantly...not only for mechanical and electronic problems, but also for rattles. My Vettes (7 of them) have been trouble free. The Z has 12K miles and has had ZERO problems. A service consists of a $90.00 oil change. Granted the Porsche has a nicer interior, but for a MINIMUM of a $50,000.00 price difference, it should! I can have my interior completely redone for 5-10k and it would be on par with a Ferrari interior! And please don't give me this crap about what a 7 litre motor would do in a Porsche! That is like me saying what a 1100 HP motor would do in a Vette. How many of you have ever driven a 06 Z, muchless any Vette? I HAVE OWNED 911's! They were nothing but trouble. They offered ZERO excitement compared to my Vettes. If you like a Porsche more than a Vette...fine...I respect that. If you have no desire to ever own or drive a Vette...fine...I also respect that. But PLEASE stop with this crap about how a Porsche is SOOOO superior to a Vette in EVERY way except for performance. It is just not so, and I speak from experience!!!

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Even GM wouldnt say its brilliantly conceived. The Z06 is just a mechanical makeover - even they say that. But it is a very effective one.

    The next Corvette, the C7, will not be the cheap charlie red wagon so typical of the pre Bob Lutz era at GM.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    devo said:
    Quote:
    RonnieC6Z said:
    Quote:
    Dock (Atlanta) said:
    Quote:
    RonnieC6Z said:
    Here in the US (Porsches #1 target market), generally speaking, Vettes are driven by guys that love speed, performance and balls-to-the-wall thrills, and Porsches are driven by exactly what I stated above.



    And what data source did you use to come up with that information?



    Funny...you did not ask RC the same question when he said that Pimps drive Vettes in Germany.



    Sorry Ronnie, but I have to diagree. Most buy it because it's cheap speed, and, unfortunately, cheap everywhere else too.
    Like someone else has posted can you even fathom what porsche could do with 7 liters of displacement.


    You do realize that Ferrari owners are saying the same thing about Porsches which is equally rediculous. STopp looking down your nose and go drive a Z06 and then come back and tell us what you think. I unlike you I am guessing have driven the Porsches, Ferraris and Lamborghinis and I can tell you that the Z06 holds up very well next to those cars. The leathers just not as fancy. It's just as solid as any Ferrai or Lambo I have driven. Well much more so than any Diablo or Countach.

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Crash and Polo, maybe I can explain the culture gap about this. In Europe high performance cars and racing began as a rich mans sport, like - Polo and Horses. Look in Porsches biography and he states that he was after the "carriage" trade and so was Enzo.

    In the US sports cars grew from the middles class.So the
    elements of upper class prestige, elegance and luxury presence was not as critical for the large US sports cars market. Performance was always more important than the combined package.

    So the very rich here will consider a Corvette, as class distinction is not as important here- while the very rich of Europe would probably never consider a Corvette. We remain though the largest single markets for Ferrari, Lamborghini
    and Porsche. But here people will cross shop or buy both.

    To help explain this culture gap further, (IMO) acceleration is more important than handling/top-speed to the majority of enthusiasts here because we've had stringent (radar enforced) speed limits since the 1960's. We've also had demerit points on our licenses since I can remember.

    Gas has also been much cheaper than EU, enabling our car manufacturers to be less concerned about fuel consumption - which explains our lack of high hp small motors. I suppose the market just doesn't support the idea. Look at all of our SUV's!!! The few SUV's I've seen in Italy have Turbo Diesels.

    Don't forget, we've had Muscle Cars, with over 400hp since the 1960's, capable of under 13 second 1/4 miles (with slicks/headers). While these cars couldn't handle or brake well, they were sure fun to drive. Properly restored Muscle Cars are currently selling for incredible amounts of money due to their high demand. There is something special about driving a big-block with high lift cams.

    The Corvette Z06 is the best example of this culture's idea of a sports car - big block with lots of muscle. I personally prefer the Turbo but let's all get along, shall we.


    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    mp,

    Speaking of Turbo Diesels, have you seen the Audi R10 winning at Sebring and LeMans. Is this the future of high performance engines?

    Mike

    Re: C6Z vs. 997TT post from 6speeonline

    Quote:
    Uber-porker said:
    I recall reading (perhaps on this website!) that the current 3.6 turbo engine can be coaxed to 700 HP.



    The 3.6 can handle ~600 hp with no internal engine or transmission upgrades. With internal upgrades it will go much higher. Check out EVO's (Evolution Motorsports) web site to see what power levels they offer.

     
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