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    Supercar Market Update

    Just finished an article on the current Supercar Market and where it might be headed.

    https://karenable.com/supercar-market-insights-analysis-july-2022/

    Thoughts? Comments? 


    Re: Supercar Market Update

    Interesting write up as usual kiss


    Re: Supercar Market Update

    I can comment from experience on FERRARI V12S, etc:

    1. The 812 SF is a useless extravagance due to its primitive suspension, I sold mine after 2 months at wholesale which equaled my low retail purchase price, thanks to this up market, but both near window.
    2. My Lusso was bought and sold at the usual discount from window, a great car
    3. Pistas and Speciales are expensive but rightly so as they are special lightweight cars descended from the Scuds and Stead, my favourite cars.  I doubt they will see window for a long time.
    4. THE idea of paying over for the hideous new Porsches is the best indicator of how insane pricing is as these cars are just not worth it.

    Re: Supercar Market Update

    Hi Watt,

    What's your opinion on the Roma?  Still have one? Sold?


    Re: Supercar Market Update

    Jean:

    Hi Watt,

    What's your opinion on the Roma?  Still have one? Sold?

    Hi Jean, I sold it back in October '21.  A good entry Ferrari-very different feel but beautifully made and fast enough even for my 100-160 mph back roads, very stable at 160. -- spending more on more performance isn't necessary but I and many others certainly do it - 3,000 HP  my garages average, 5 cars -- truly silly but I love it.

    For me the no racing seat option is my main reason I sold it. 

    Truly beautiful, looking at this pic makes me think it would be a good brother to the PistaSmiley

    1658197681732IMG_6228.jpeg


    Re: Supercar Market Update

    1658273514964IMG_4111.jpg

     

    I hear you, Watt. You've got me thinking and had fun calculating my own garage at 3,773HP, 6 cars, an average of 628hp/car. Yes, we are silly. indecision

    Took delivery of my Roma a couple of weeks ago and I wasn't sure what to make of it.  Initially, I had very low expectation, mainly because my friends got rid of theirs soon after delivery and the reviews were also underwhelming.  They say that this is not a true Ferrari experience.  But, I was pleasantly surprised and thought this car may be undervalued by many.  For example, the ventilated seat was a pleasant surprise in a Ferrari.  See what a low expectation can do!

    As Front Mid-ship Rear wheel drive format, it is easy to position this car into a corner and the lightness of footwork makes it a very different experience to 812 albeit missing the V12 sound.  Turbos and 8 speed makes it easy to gain speed without effort.  The shape is wonderful reminds me of 550/575.  The use case was to have a daily drivable Ferrari (if such thing is possible) and fit two golf bags for country club express but I was disappointed to find out that it does not fit the full-size but only slim-sized bags.  

    I hoped you would provide perspective from long-term ownership but I see why you sold it.  In the end, perhaps this is not a keeper?


    Re: Supercar Market Update

    What’s the name of this color Jean?


    --

    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: Supercar Market Update

    Hi Pentium,

    The color is Blu Tour de France 70.


    Re: Supercar Market Update

    Jean:

    Hi Pentium,

    The color is Blu Tour de France 70.

    That’s a great looking blue 


    Re: Supercar Market Update

    Thank you Jean! Wonderful color, well done Smiley


    --

    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: Supercar Market Update

    Jean:

    1658273514964IMG_4111.jpg

     

    I hear you, Watt. You've got me thinking and had fun calculating my own garage at 3,773HP, 6 cars, an average of 628hp/car. Yes, we are silly. indecision

    Took delivery of my Roma a couple of weeks ago and I wasn't sure what to make of it.  Initially, I had very low expectation, mainly because my friends got rid of theirs soon after delivery and the reviews were also underwhelming.  They say that this is not a true Ferrari experience.  But, I was pleasantly surprised and thought this car may be undervalued by many.  For example, the ventilated seat was a pleasant surprise in a Ferrari.  See what a low expectation can do!

    As Front Mid-ship Rear wheel drive format, it is easy to position this car into a corner and the lightness of footwork makes it a very different experience to 812 albeit missing the V12 sound.  Turbos and 8 speed makes it easy to gain speed without effort.  The shape is wonderful reminds me of 550/575.  The use case was to have a daily drivable Ferrari (if such thing is possible) and fit two golf bags for country club express but I was disappointed to find out that it does not fit the full-size but only slim-sized bags.  

    I hoped you would provide perspective from long-term ownership but I see why you sold it.  In the end, perhaps this is not a keeper?

    Please provide more pix Jean, in and out,  I'm sure others would like to see it as well, thank you.  

    Longterm ownership and I have never been close friends, since Madame has taken over the 2012 C2S Cab in triple blue [quatro blue if you count window tint], it's our longest survivor, I ordered and owned it since new -- 57,000 miles.  She loves it more than the RSQ8 and her Raptor is just her Labrador Retriever rig.

    One rule I pitched to Madame 36 years ago is one car in one car out - no building big piles of sports cars.  General adherence to this guideline makes sense as I can only drive one car at a time, and now most of my miles when healthy are on dirt and low range in the TRX  going Way Back In with the Labs to hike.  The good news is she doesn't really give a sh.t when I fall off the wagon especially with Ferraris, which tend to stack up.

    Like you, I see the Roma as a hidden gem, disrespected by many - most of whom never drove it.  It is a finely handling rocket at a discount price so price/value is superb.  Yes luggage space is poor, can you fit a golf bag across the bag seats?  Otherwise I just fill up the passenger footwell and seat.  

    It doesn't have the meaty drooling sex appeal of the Super Fast but it's suspension is much better.  Totally stable at 165 mph on poor uneven back country 2 lane, which the SuperFast is not.

    It's better than many Ferrari experiences!  I did have a vortex generator fall off underneath on the passenger side, and needed Tom Fleming The Customer SVP at HQ to source it as the little dealer in Salt Lake is not competent, but that's trivial - the car was completely reliable.  Those who disrespect it are clueless and just babbling.

    To me, all Ferraris are daily drivers [except the truly silly ones].  One could argue GTC4 Lusso, Roma, GTS, Pista, 488 from newer times are more so than SuperFast which is fine around town, but it sucks at hammer down performance driving on my back roads.  Certainly when I worked and went to the office, drove my son to football [soccer] practice, etc, I drove Strads, Scuds and my 612 every day.  Same with GT3's, GT2's regarding which the idiots on Rennlist predictably, every 6 months, post:  "Can I drive my GT3/2 etc daily?"  Of course one can, it makes every thing more fun.

    Whether it's a keeper is up to you!  I needed to do the 12s since I can die any time in my next fall on my neck, and wanted to try the Roma.  But when the haze clears, my Ferrari blood is the lightweights:  9 Strads, 3 Scuds, and now the Pista all with racing seats.  Since Speciales are as pricy as Pistas, I see no reason to bother..... yetSmiley

    PURE SEX BUT JUST AS UNSTABLE AT HIGH SPEED AS A BOMBSHELL ON 6" STILETTOS

    sf 812.jpgIMG_1132.jpeg


    Re: Supercar Market Update

    Your description is just fantastically written, Watt.


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Supercar Market Update

    Watt - Great description.Smiley


    Re: Supercar Market Update

    No need to insert politics in your summary. If you studied the facts surrounding the US economy today as you do with cars, you would know the reasons for inflation has nothing to do with Biden. Einstein could be in office and it wouldn't make a difference.Smiley


    --

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.


    Re: Supercar Market Update

    nberry:

    No need to insert politics in your summary. If you studied the facts surrounding the US economy today as you do with cars, you would know the reasons for inflation has nothing to do with Biden. Einstein could be in office and it wouldn't make a difference.Smiley

    Sorry but what politics? 


    Re: Supercar Market Update

    You don’t think calling the US economy in its inflationary state Biden’s economy similar to Jimmy Carter’s an insertion of politics? Smiley
     

    Any competent editor would have redlined the sentence.Smiley


    --

     

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.

     


    Re: Supercar Market Update

    nberry:

    You don’t think calling the US economy in its inflationary state Biden’s economy similar to Jimmy Carter’s an insertion of politics? Smiley
     

    Any competent editor would have redlined the sentence.Smiley


    --

     

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.

     

    Its a statement of fact.


    Re: Supercar Market Update

    nberry:

    You don’t think calling the US economy in its inflationary state Biden’s economy similar to Jimmy Carter’s an insertion of politics? Smiley
     

    Any competent editor would have redlined the sentence.Smiley


    --

     

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.

     

     

    Sorry Nick, I also don't see that as anywhere near political. Like SSO said, he is just stating facts. It is happening under Biden right now. 

     

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Supercar Market Update

    Whoopsy:
    nberry:

    You don’t think calling the US economy in its inflationary state Biden’s economy similar to Jimmy Carter’s an insertion of politics? Smiley
     

    Any competent editor would have redlined the sentence.Smiley


    --

     

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.

     

     

    Sorry Nick, I also don't see that as anywhere near political. Like SSO said, he is just stating facts. It is happening under Brandon right now. 

     

     

    I fixed that for you. Smiley


    --

     

    If I don't fly, I drive my .:RS :)

     


    Re: Supercar Market Update

    SSO.:
    nberry:

    You don’t think calling the US economy in its inflationary state Biden’s economy similar to Jimmy Carter’s an insertion of politics? Smiley
     

    Any competent editor would have redlined the sentence.Smiley


    --

     

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.

     

    Its a statement of fact.

    Calling it Biden's economic attributes cause and ownership.

    The Cares Act was passed by Congress while Trump was in office. Money was being was being distributed using a fire hose. At the same time, gasoline prices were being impacted by Covid. When Biden took office in January of 2021, EVERYONE knew inflation was on the horizon. It doesn't happen overnight.

    Your post using "Biden economy" was meant to  disparage and your dissembling confirms that. All you have done is call into question your credibility regarding the articles that you posted here. Smiley

     


    --

     

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.

     


    Re: Supercar Market Update

    Killing our energy independence by ending the keystone pipeline is all it took to start what we are witnessing. Without it there would not be enough money for Russia to have invaded anyone. Prices would be much more stable and so would the world. Time and time again this administration has done all the exact things they warned us Trump would do. Never seen so much confession by projection.  And none of it possible without media support and blind followers who can only keep their sanity by censoring any opposition and jailing them. 
    To imagine our current administration is not responsible is to imagine they are doing everything they can to help when the reality is their ideas to fix things are nuttier than squirrels poop. 
    Objeting to reality is understandable but Way Too dangerous for our country to not call it out. Smiley


    Re: Supercar Market Update

    Pilot:
    Whoopsy:
    nberry:

    You don’t think calling the US economy in its inflationary state Biden’s economy similar to Jimmy Carter’s an insertion of politics? Smiley
     

    Any competent editor would have redlined the sentence.Smiley


    --

     

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.

     

     

    Sorry Nick, I also don't see that as anywhere near political. Like SSO said, he is just stating facts. It is happening under Brandon right now. 

     

     

    I fixed that for you. Smiley


    --

     

    If I don't fly, I drive my .:RS :)

     

     

    LOL now you made it political Smiley


    --

     

     


    Re: Supercar Market Update

    nberry:
    SSO.:
    nberry:

    You don’t think calling the US economy in its inflationary state Biden’s economy similar to Jimmy Carter’s an insertion of politics? Smiley
     

    Any competent editor would have redlined the sentence.Smiley


    --

     

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.

     

    Its a statement of fact.

    Calling it Biden's economic attributes cause and ownership.

    The Cares Act was passed by Congress while Trump was in office. Money was being was being distributed using a fire hose. At the same time, gasoline prices were being impacted by Covid. When Biden took office in January of 2021, EVERYONE knew inflation was on the horizon. It doesn't happen overnight.

    Your post using "Biden economy" was meant to  disparage and your dissembling confirms that. All you have done is call into question your credibility regarding the articles that you posted here. Smiley

     


    --

     

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.

     

     

    One can't cross regime like that. Like, does that means every thing good that happened under Obama was from Bush? 

    And everything bad that happened under Trump was due to Obama? 

    If Biden didn't like the Cares Act, he could try and terminate it. He didn't cause he likes it. THAT makes it his policy too. 

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Supercar Market Update

    watt:
    Jean:

    1658273514964IMG_4111.jpg

     

    I hear you, Watt. You've got me thinking and had fun calculating my own garage at 3,773HP, 6 cars, an average of 628hp/car. Yes, we are silly. indecision

    Took delivery of my Roma a couple of weeks ago and I wasn't sure what to make of it.  Initially, I had very low expectation, mainly because my friends got rid of theirs soon after delivery and the reviews were also underwhelming.  They say that this is not a true Ferrari experience.  But, I was pleasantly surprised and thought this car may be undervalued by many.  For example, the ventilated seat was a pleasant surprise in a Ferrari.  See what a low expectation can do!

    As Front Mid-ship Rear wheel drive format, it is easy to position this car into a corner and the lightness of footwork makes it a very different experience to 812 albeit missing the V12 sound.  Turbos and 8 speed makes it easy to gain speed without effort.  The shape is wonderful reminds me of 550/575.  The use case was to have a daily drivable Ferrari (if such thing is possible) and fit two golf bags for country club express but I was disappointed to find out that it does not fit the full-size but only slim-sized bags.  

    I hoped you would provide perspective from long-term ownership but I see why you sold it.  In the end, perhaps this is not a keeper?

    Please provide more pix Jean, in and out,  I'm sure others would like to see it as well, thank you.  

    Longterm ownership and I have never been close friends, since Madame has taken over the 2012 C2S Cab in triple blue [quatro blue if you count window tint], it's our longest survivor, I ordered and owned it since new -- 57,000 miles.  She loves it more than the RSQ8 and her Raptor is just her Labrador Retriever rig.

    One rule I pitched to Madame 36 years ago is one car in one car out - no building big piles of sports cars.  General adherence to this guideline makes sense as I can only drive one car at a time, and now most of my miles when healthy are on dirt and low range in the TRX  going Way Back In with the Labs to hike.  The good news is she doesn't really give a sh.t when I fall off the wagon especially with Ferraris, which tend to stack up.

    Like you, I see the Roma as a hidden gem, disrespected by many - most of whom never drove it.  It is a finely handling rocket at a discount price so price/value is superb.  Yes luggage space is poor, can you fit a golf bag across the bag seats?  Otherwise I just fill up the passenger footwell and seat.  

    It doesn't have the meaty drooling sex appeal of the Super Fast but it's suspension is much better.  Totally stable at 165 mph on poor uneven back country 2 lane, which the SuperFast is not.

    It's better than many Ferrari experiences!  I did have a vortex generator fall off underneath on the passenger side, and needed Tom Fleming The Customer SVP at HQ to source it as the little dealer in Salt Lake is not competent, but that's trivial - the car was completely reliable.  Those who disrespect it are clueless and just babbling.

    To me, all Ferraris are daily drivers [except the truly silly ones].  One could argue GTC4 Lusso, Roma, GTS, Pista, 488 from newer times are more so than SuperFast which is fine around town, but it sucks at hammer down performance driving on my back roads.  Certainly when I worked and went to the office, drove my son to football [soccer] practice, etc, I drove Strads, Scuds and my 612 every day.  Same with GT3's, GT2's regarding which the idiots on Rennlist predictably, every 6 months, post:  "Can I drive my GT3/2 etc daily?"  Of course one can, it makes every thing more fun.

    Whether it's a keeper is up to you!  I needed to do the 12s since I can die any time in my next fall on my neck, and wanted to try the Roma.  But when the haze clears, my Ferrari blood is the lightweights:  9 Strads, 3 Scuds, and now the Pista all with racing seats.  Since Speciales are as pricy as Pistas, I see no reason to bother..... yetSmiley

    PURE SEX BUT JUST AS UNSTABLE AT HIGH SPEED AS A BOMBSHELL ON 6" STILETTOS

    sf 812.jpgIMG_1132.jpeg

    Thanks for the insight, Watt.  Exactly what I was looking for.

    I'll post some more photos on a separate thread since I don't want to hijack SSO's.


    Re: Supercar Market Update

    Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon… Expanding the M2 supply by more than $6trn over the last two years unfortunately was always going to have an impact… 


    Re: Supercar Market Update

    996FourEss:

    Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon… Expanding the M2 supply by more than $6trn over the last two years unfortunately was always going to have an impact… 

    Even more an issue when it is on a global level...


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Supercar Market Update

    996FourEss:

    Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon… Expanding the M2 supply by more than $6trn over the last two years unfortunately was always going to have an impact… 

    Even Stephanie Kelton, one of the promoters of Modern Monetary Theory, acknowledges in her book that inflation is always a concern with a massive expansion of the money supply. To stem inflation pressures, the Fed would need to raise interest rats about 200 to 250 basis point over the expected inflation rate.  That’s not going to happen with a hapless Fed so this will remain a persistent structural aspect of the economy.  


    Re: Supercar Market Update

    I remember.....

    Mortgage rate trends over time

    Year Average 30-Year Rate
    1982 16.04%
    1983 13.24%
    1984 13.88%
    1985 12.43%

    --

    2015 Jet Black TT


    Re: Supercar Market Update

    NSXER:

    I remember.....

    Mortgage rate trends over time

    Year Average 30-Year Rate
    1982 16.04%
    1983 13.24%
    1984 13.88%
    1985 12.43%

    but at that time, in France, as an example, you were paying a house in 10-12 years. Now the rate is about 1-2% depending the profile but you are paying back the mortgage for 22 years average...

    The excessive money printed has to disappear, so inflation will carry on till balance is back.


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Supercar Market Update

    The USA Gov has no choice but to print, with these higher rates the cost to carry the massive, choking Gov debt has increased.  

    Gold, Oil and Gas assets, productive farmland are the appropriate assets.  Supercars are a liability, not an asset except in the fun category:  Eat, Drink and be Merry!!!

     

    IMG_3934.jpeg


     
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