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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Whoopsy:
    CGX car nut:
    Whoopsy:

    The only performance EV currently on the horizon that might have a chance getting close will be the Audi e-Tron GT, it will be based off the same Mission E platform though I believe. No one else have such an offering remotely close to getting produced.

    Right now the Taycan is the only entry in the performance EV sedan segment. 

    It's pulling 1.3+g around corners and close to 1.6g in the Karussell. Jaw dropping numbers to be honest. 

    Porsche is also being very coy on mentioning which Taycan variant is being used for the various performance statistics. One would assume that it is the Turbo variant, but until it confirmed by Porsche it could as easily apply to the S variant.  

    The real advantage, as you have highlighted with the EV, is not top end speed but the ability to control and optimize torque at each wheel.   Audi has a three electric machine version for its S designated variants in testing.  That may debut on the e-tron or the e-tron sportback soon.  

     

    It should be the Turbo S variant. Porsche doesn't do shit half heartedly Smiley

    Last time they took a sedan to set Ring time it was the Panamera Turbo S at 7:38. When they set the SUV record it was the Cayenne Turbo S.

    World dominance or nothing!


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Whoopsy:
    the-missile:
    neunelf:

    So 4” slower then the Panamera. Not bad but not fantastic either?

    remember, limited to 250km/h...big difference at the Ring.Smiley

     

    not quite, Lars got close to 260km/hr, 259km/hr to be exact Smiley

    you know perfectly that by design criteria this car is limited in term of max speed it can achieve. but as you mention on previous post, you can only try to sort this out by a 3rd gear but what's the point? 250km/h is fast enough. at the ring, it is an issue, elsewhere and especially shorter tracks with faster acceleration required, the Taycan will surprise a lot of people.

    the usual numbers 0-100 & 0-200 will be mind blowing enough to talk about what the package can do Smiley

    the sound...nothing can be done. so be it. hello future Smiley


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    I heard that the drivers have to plan for sections on the track, where they lift the throttle to allow for the cooling to do it's magic. An impressive time nonetheless, but it gets closer to driving the ring in a simulator 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Yeah the simulators are becoming more real and the real thing more like simulators. 

    It would be interesting to know the time for the P100. 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    neunelf:

    Yeah the simulators are becoming more real and the real thing more like simulators. 

    It would be interesting to know the time for the P100. 

    I doubt the P100 could even finish one lap without overheating. Not build for serious driving Smiley


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    I assume this lap was achieved with standard road tires (not Cup type semi-slick)?


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    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    MKSGR:
    neunelf:

    Yeah the simulators are becoming more real and the real thing more like simulators. 

    It would be interesting to know the time for the P100. 

    I doubt the P100 could even finish one lap without overheating. Not build for serious driving Smiley

    No way the P100D could do that. Even if it was possible you'd be sea sick 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Grant:

    I assume this lap was achieved with standard road tires (not Cup type semi-slick)?

    Will be most interesting to see the results of independent tests, you are right Smiley


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    schmoell:
    MKSGR:
    neunelf:

    Yeah the simulators are becoming more real and the real thing more like simulators. 

    It would be interesting to know the time for the P100. 

    I doubt the P100 could even finish one lap without overheating. Not build for serious driving Smiley

    No way the P100D could do that. Even if it was possible you'd be sea sick 

    Imagine that Tesla has an OTA waiting for the P100D to address its deficiencies when compared with the Taycan.  The P100D has serious cooling issues with its battery pack.   As coolant moves through the pack it continues to heat to the point that the battery cells near the end of the coolant loop are no longer being effectively cooled but instead heated.  Only a redesign of the battery pack to an arrangement similar to that employed with the Model 3 can address these shortcomings.  


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    I don't think that the P100D has "serious cooling issues". Only after hammering it on the Autobahn for an extended time (50+ km) will it limit the power output and even in that situation you can still drive 200 kpa, no serious acceleration though.  Running on a track and speeding on an empty German Autobahn were likely not top priorities for that car, which makes sense to me. For the Taycan, since it is a Porsche, priorities (and trade offs) have to be different.  But at the end of the day this is mainly marketing and almost no one will take the Taycan to a track. For everyday usage chassis and suspension setup seem to be more important, esp since these cars are so heavy (as can be heard from the screaming tires in the video)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    schmoell:

    I don't think that the P100D has "serious cooling issues". Only after hammering it on the Autobahn for an extended time (50+ km) will it limit the power output and even in that situation you can still drive 200 kpa, no serious acceleration though.  Running on a track and speeding on an empty German Autobahn were likely not top priorities for that car, which makes sense to me. 

    Typical US car design. That's how the US car builders have developed & produced their cars ever sind: just "good enough". The thing is - even if you don't fully exploit the potential of a car you can still feel all the small differences in daily situations at lower speed. The entire car just feels way more perfect if developed for hard-core use Smiley


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    schmoell:

    I don't think that the P100D has "serious cooling issues". Only after hammering it on the Autobahn for an extended time (50+ km) will it limit the power output and even in that situation you can still drive 200 kpa, no serious acceleration though.  Running on a track and speeding on an empty German Autobahn were likely not top priorities for that car, which makes sense to me. For the Taycan, since it is a Porsche, priorities (and trade offs) have to be different.  But at the end of the day this is mainly marketing and almost no one will take the Taycan to a track. For everyday usage chassis and suspension setup seem to be more important, esp since these cars are so heavy (as can be heard from the screaming tires in the video)

     

    It is a design priority thing for sure. It was never made to be a performance car, the amazing low speed acceleration is just simply a byproduct of electric drive. The electric system in a Tesla was never designed to be used repeatedly in a high drain high regeneration environment in the first place, for example track driving. Unlike the Taycan, Tesla never designed their system to be stressed so to speak. 

    But for the next generation, Tesla might just do a performance version, using 800V system and redesign the battery system to be able to handle high stressed environment. They are already heading that way, the Model 3 battery system is already better than the Model S/X under stress.

    But the key will be for them to adopt the next generation 800V, 400V is a dead end, yesterday tech.


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    It's one of those trade offs I guess. 400V tech has a working supply chain and is easier to insulate. 800V lowers the currents but creates new safety challenges. I could imagine that 800V will be used for high powered, more expensive EVs (incl Tesla) and 400V for the rest ?


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    schmoell:

    It's one of those trade offs I guess. 400V tech has a working supply chain and is easier to insulate. 800V lowers the currents but creates new safety challenges. I could imagine that 800V will be used for high powered, more expensive EVs (incl Tesla) and 400V for the rest ?

    in regards to European standard which is called IEC, a power cable for 400V or 800V have the same insulation requirement and both are insulated the same way. insulations are same and rated to 1,000V. Smiley


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    schmoell:

    It's one of those trade offs I guess. 400V tech has a working supply chain and is easier to insulate. 800V lowers the currents but creates new safety challenges. I could imagine that 800V will be used for high powered, more expensive EVs (incl Tesla) and 400V for the rest ?

     

    There is actually no down side to going 800V.

    W=VA, the higher the voltage the lower the current for the same wattage i.e. power. Higher voltage means less loss along the wires. Lower current means thinner wires and lighter weight. Lighter car means better performance all around.

    With less loss a smaller battery can also be used for for the same range, that makes a even lighter car. 

    While the majority of charging stations are currently at 400V, going 800V means those stations just have to doubled up to become 800V. But 800V cars are also backward compatible too 400V. 

    Tesla really has no choice but to up it's game to go 800V soon. 

     


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    schmoell:

    I don't think that the P100D has "serious cooling issues". Only after hammering it on the Autobahn for an extended time (50+ km) will it limit the power output and even in that situation you can still drive 200 kpa, no serious acceleration though.  Running on a track and speeding on an empty German Autobahn were likely not top priorities for that car, which makes sense to me. For the Taycan, since it is a Porsche, priorities (and trade offs) have to be different.  But at the end of the day this is mainly marketing and almost no one will take the Taycan to a track. For everyday usage chassis and suspension setup seem to be more important, esp since these cars are so heavy (as can be heard from the screaming tires in the video)

    The cooling system of the Model 3 is significantly more efficient than that found on the Model S/X.  This is why the Model 3, theoretically can charge at 250 kW while the Model S/X has a lower charge rating.  Heating the battery pack is only one part of the rapid charging equation; the other part is efficient waste heat removal.  


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    2020 Taycan  First Drive Review:

     

    https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/porsche/taycan/first-drives/porsche-taycan-2020-review


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Porsche Taycan 2020 review

    Stuttgart’s groundbreaking 700bhp-plus pure-electric four-seat sports car is driven in pre-production form

    FIRST DRIVE

    by Andrew Frankel

    27 August 2019

    What is it?

    For reasons I think I understand, this story feels different. Every week, we go some place to drive some thing, and lucky we are to do so. But to drive the first all-electric Porsche – well that, surely, is different.

    Different because Porsche and electricity seem as natural a fit as fire and ice. Different because if Porsche really can pull it off and produce the world’s first electric production driver’s car, the ramifications could be enormous. But, for Porsche, perhaps not quite so enormous if it cannot.

    Because of the way the media is micro-managed these days, especially with cars as important as this, there is still much about the Porsche Taycan I am not allowed to say, because the car has yet even to be unveiled. So far as official information is concerned, all that exists is what Porsche published when it revealed the Mission E concept in 2015, most of which is now obsolete.

    If what follows seems more speculative than factual, you could nevertheless conclude that I know rather more than I’m saying, because not being specific was a condition of getting in the car. I shall therefore leave it to you to decide how well informed such speculation might be. In the words of Francis Urquhart: ‘You might think that. I couldn’t possibly comment…’

    There are, in fact, two Taycans, at least that Porsche is owning up to. Actually, there’s certainly a third and very probably a fourth, but in these days of top-down launches, these are less powerful versions that have yet to be seen or driven, officially or otherwise. Which leaves us with the two top cars, widely rumoured to be called Turbo and Turbo S, in line with Porsche’s naming convention. (I know it seems strange given neither even has an engine let alone a turbocharger, but we’ll get used to it.)

    Both have batteries rated above 90kWh and standard power outputs substantially in excess of 600bhp. The difference (besides the S having ceramic brakes, a stiffer set-up, standard four-wheel steering and 21in wheels clothed in high-performance tyres) is that while both will ‘overboost’ for 2.5sec at the time, the S will do so rather more, raising its total output to well over 700bhp, with in excess of 750lb ft.

    So while the car is predictably heavy – think something around the 2.25-tonne mark – so too is it blindingly quick. The 0-62mph time of the Mission E was quoted at 3.2sec, and I’d expect a Taycan Turbo S to be as far below the three-second mark as the E was above it.

    When I drove both cars in prototype form, their interiors were completely camouflaged but have since been revealed to feature next-generation high-definition imaging that, if you choose the optional passenger information display, provides TFT screens almost from wall to wall across the entire width of the car. It looks quite intimidating but, in terms of the admittedly limited operations I was able to use, it all works fairly intuitively.

    What's it like?

    And that is quite enough about the Taycan’s static qualities. You sit low in the car, in line with Porsche’s determination to present the Taycan as a sporting, driver’s machine, despite its mass, electric powertrain, four doors and (reasonably) spacious cabin. Shut your eyes and you could almost be in a 911.

    Press a button to put the car in standby mode and depress a little lever to knock it into drive. We ease away from the Weissach test track and out onto the public road. The strange thing here is that, even having spent many hours in the Taycan’s passenger seat in the Arctic, I still don’t really know what to expect. Fact is that while electric cars from major manufacturers are becoming considerably more common, there has still never been one like this, or even remotely so. For all the apparent familiarity, this still feels like the biggest voyage into the unknown for years.

    And yet… Sitting in this brand-new car with its brand-new platform and powertrain, here’s something very familiar. It feels like a Porsche. Not like a Cayenne or Panamera but – and it feels silly saying it, given the weight of the car and the length of its wheelbase – something closer to a 911. And I’ve not done 30mph yet. It’s all about the steering: the heft, the precision, the off-centre linearity all are cut straight from the Porsche sports car textbook.

    I find it utterly surprising and profoundly reassuring, not least because now we’re out of Weissach and time is short. I have to drive fast right away, despite every other seat being occupied by Porsche engineers. I don’t much like driving rapidly with anyone in the car, let alone overseen by the best in the business, but there is no choice.

    The Turbo S (if that is its name) is fast enough to make you feel giddy on overboost. The torque delivery is so instant, the acceleration so violent and explosive, that it’s briefly not that pleasant an experience. And that’s with 700bhp. I don’t find it hard to imagine what any one of the growing mob of 2000bhp electric hypercars will be like: I find it impossible.

    The rate doesn’t really abate until you’re well into licence-losing territory, and you’ll be fearing for your liberty before it becomes in any way normal.

    The sound? Unmistakably electric, for sure, but not unpleasant when extended, unlike many petrol engines, at least one of which is made by Porsche. There’s a sound enhancer that might on paper appear completely pointless because all it does is play an acoustically optimised version of what’s already there, but I quite liked it. It adds character to the car’s muted voice, and even if it’s only a sliver, it’s appreciated nonetheless.

    We’re going fast now and I’m learning all the time. The suspension takes big chunks of Panamera componentry but the actual three-chamber struts are unique to the Taycan. The car rides eerily well but is so deftly damped in Sport and Sport Plus that with that steering and devastating acceleration, it’s monstrously fast from point to point, even on difficult roads. No car in my experience has ever managed this amount of mass so well. No, you can’t lob it as you might a shorter, lighter car, but once you’ve guided it into the apex, its composure is phenomenal.

    But is it fun? Well, yes, because its capabilities will leave you slack-jawed and anything that can do that is always amusing, and no, because it’s still nothing like the fully immersive driving experience of, say, a 911. And with four doors, that mass and that wheelbase, but without a flat six or any gearbox, that’s not too surprising.

    There’s still stuff I’d change here. Most notable is the lack of ‘engine’ braking when you come off the accelerator. It is Porsche philosophy that, broadly speaking, one pedal should make the car go and the other should make it stop, and while you can vary the degree of off-throttle deceleration, I’d like more, even at its peak in Sport Plus. I kept barrelling up to corners tapping a non-existent paddle for downshifts that weren’t there. You need to use the brakes – or what feel like the brakes – far more than in a normal car. In fact, up to 80% of the available deceleration does not require the massive discs at all. Took me a while to get my head around that one, too.

    I have a smaller issue with the brakes themselves: buy a Turbo S and ceramics are standard, although I far preferred the meatier feel of the still mightily powerful tungsten-coated brakes on the Turbo.

    In fact, with the Turbo costing around £15,000 less than the Turbo S at approximately £120,000, I’d seriously consider it for its smaller 20in wheels, even more compliant ride and better-feeling brakes, although I would tick the option for the S’s standard four-wheel steering, which helps to shrink the car in tight turns and provides formidable stability in quick curves. But most owners will, of course, fork out the additional £15,000, not for what it buys them but for what it saves them: the thought of friends and neighbours concluding that the additional letter is absent through finite financial resource.

    Should I buy one?

    Let’s for a minute forget the Taycan is electric. Just in terms of what and how it does what it does, is this a proper Porsche? In these days of Cayennes and Panameras, and based on first impressions of the prototypes I drove, unequivocally so.

    If you want to enjoy driving a Porsche more than this, you need one with its engine behind the driver. And yet it’s one of the most comfortable GTs I’ve known and without question the quietest. In the distance and directions it is able to throw the net of its abilities, it is an astonishing, even an astounding, achievement.

    Is this, then, the world’s first mainstream electric sports car? There I must stop you. It is sporting, for sure, and far more so than any other, but will Taycan owners set alarms and go for pre-dawn blasts – I mean whirrs – just because they can? That I doubt.

    Then again, it is not that kind of car, and nor was it ever intended to be so. For now, the Taycan and its creators will have to be happy with having created the best electric car yet to go on sale, and having done so by a mile.

    Porsche Taycan specification

    Where Stuttgart, Germany Price £135,000 (est) On sale late 2019 Engine front and rear electric motors Battery over 90kWh Power over 700bhp (on overboost) Torque over 750lb ft Gearbox2-spd, direct drive Kerb weight 2250kg (est) Top speed over 155mph 0-62mph less than three seconds Range 310 miles (Mission E, claimed) CO2 0g/km, 16% Rivals Porsche Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid, Mercedes-AMG GT 63 S, Tesla Model S Performance

    Link:  https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/porsche/taycan/first-drives/porsche-taycan-2020-review

    Smiley


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    cannot wait to testdrive one !


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    fwiw: Porsche will live stream the Taycan presentation at 15:00 (CEST) on September 4

    https://twitter.com/PorscheNewsroom/status/1165889172479119361

     

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Strangely I'm becoming remotely interested in the subject. What's happening heart


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    1969 Mercedes-Benz 300SEL 6.3  / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS (sold) / 2011 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Performance / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2018 Porsche 911 GT3 Clubsport


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Porker:

    Strangely I'm becoming remotely interested in the subject. What's happening heart

    I’ve read several pre-debut drive reviews including the Autocar one posted above to Top Gear to Motor Trend to Automobile and all state that the Taycan is amazing.  It isn’t a 911 replacement or even the equivalent of a Panamera, instead it is something else, but just as special.  Wish I had a deposit for one.  2020 is shaping up as car Nirvana, first with the C8 Corvette, then the Audi RS 6, and now the Porsche Taycan.  Can Volkswagen inject a third as much Taycan in the ID 3?    


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Going to be fun at Frankfurt press debut.  I will post pics and impressions.👍


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Wonderbar:

    Going to be fun at Frankfurt press debut.  I will post pics and impressions.👍

    Thank you in advance.  Have checked out a few of the Tesla sites. They are trying to classify the Taycan as a too expensive Model 3 class car.  That’s too funny.  Porsche didn’t target, as one can tell, a specific Tesla model.  


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    CGX car nut:
    Wonderbar:

    Going to be fun at Frankfurt press debut.  I will post pics and impressions.👍

    Thank you in advance.  Have checked out a few of the Tesla sites. They are trying to classify the Taycan as a too expensive Model 3 class car.  That’s too funny.  Porsche didn’t target, as one can tell, a specific Tesla model.  

     

    They do it by interior size. Hence why they think the Model S is a competitor to the S-Class/7series/A8

    But even if they compare it to the Model S, the Taycan will still be the one sitting at the top of the food chain for people looking for a luxurious EV and don't care too much about pricing. *Fingers pointing to Hollywood stars that wanted to show they are green, professional athletes, etc*

     


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Whoopsy:
    CGX car nut:
    Wonderbar:

    Going to be fun at Frankfurt press debut.  I will post pics and impressions.👍

    Thank you in advance.  Have checked out a few of the Tesla sites. They are trying to classify the Taycan as a too expensive Model 3 class car.  That’s too funny.  Porsche didn’t target, as one can tell, a specific Tesla model.  

     

    They do it by interior size. Hence why they think the Model S is a competitor to the S-Class/7series/A8

    But even if they compare it to the Model S, the Taycan will still be the one sitting at the top of the food chain for people looking for a luxurious EV and don't care too much about pricing. *Fingers pointing to Hollywood stars that wanted to show they are green, professional athletes, etc*

     

    Many Tesla owners seem to seek validation from others, hence the gyrations and histrionics espoused on a few sites.  A couple of the major sites have avoided any mention of the Taycan reviews and have touted the news that Musk will announce tomorrow the first cars made in China at their new facility.  


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    I could be completely off base but paying over six figures for an EV seems absurd. It’s a tool to get from point A to point B. If anything the EV vehicles will be snapped up by ride sharing companies but not at exorbitant prices. This will be interesting. 


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    Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    nberry:

    I could be completely off base but paying over six figures for an EV seems absurd. It’s a tool to get from point A to point B. If anything the EV vehicles will be snapped up by ride sharing companies but not at exorbitant prices. This will be interesting. 

     

    People have no problem paying that much for Tesla Model S/X already. That proves a market is there for 6 figures appliances. It's like fridges, why buy those hyper expensive Sub-Zero or Miele fridges when there are cheaper alternatives.

    And why buy those expensive Teslas when there are cheaper alternatives like the Nissan Leaf? In a way it's a prestige thing to buy the more expensive stuff. That market was the sole possession of Tesla before, now it's gone forever from their portfolio, Porsche just took it from their hands. 

    As for car sharing companies, there lies the great charging problem. There are no convenient charging everywhere like gas stations. Uber and Lyft could get away with that as their drivers decides when to take a fare, so they can schedule charging around calls. But Car2Go can't do that. They charge rentals per minute, so no one has time to pay them and charge up a electric car just to go somewhere. Heck, those clients don't even go fill up the gas tank. I have friends using Car2Go, they just go find one that's not on a empty tank. Eventually someone will bite the bullet and pay the $5 to fill up and the time required, but rarely you see someone that kind. 

     


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Curious why you consider EVs nothing more than commoditized transportation especially since global regulations are forcing automakers to transition toward BEVs and FCVs to meet incredibly low carbon emission standards.  Volkswagen Group, for example, is afoul of the current fleet CO2 limits for the EU, like much of the industry.  Few automakers beyond Tesla and Toyota in the EU are meeting those new limits.  As a result, the Porsche Taycan, and to lesser extent, the Audi e-tron, Mercedes Benz EQ, and Volkswagen ID 3, are ushering the new era away from ICEs to BEVs.  

    Volkswagen Group's approach to using Porsche as the trailblazer is the correct approach when EV component costs, basically the battery pack, are much more costly than the corresponding ICE components.  This will, of course, change with scale; however, for the near term, BEVs will remain correspondingly more expensive than the comparable ICE vehicle.  That cost disadvantage is partially concealed by Porsche positioning the Taycan in size, and by performance, in a class below the Panamera.  Additionally, Porsche needed to make its first fully electric car a sedan because of the size of the battery pack, for the desired range and performance, dictates a footprint larger than that of a two door sports coupé.  

    When most drivers experience an EV, the transition based solely on drive characteristics will rapidly occur.  EVs simply are that much better, less the noise, than an internal combustion engine.  This is the appeal of Tesla.  Telsa builds a very mediocre car but the consumer is enticed by the vibration free, quiet ride followed with unrelenting acceleration.  The Taycan builds on those basic parameters with devastating effectiveness.  Based on your comments posted on RT, you are the target customer of the Taycan.  


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    CGX car nut:

    Curious why you consider EVs nothing more than commoditized transportation especially since global regulations are forcing automakers to transition toward BEVs and FCVs to meet incredibly low carbon emission standards.  Volkswagen Group, for example, is afoul of the current fleet CO2 limits for the EU, like much of the industry.  Few automakers beyond Tesla and Toyota in the EU are meeting those new limits.  As a result, the Porsche Taycan, and to lesser extent, the Audi e-tron, Mercedes Benz EQ, and Volkswagen ID 3, are ushering the new era away from ICEs to BEVs.  

    Volkswagen Group's approach to using Porsche as the trailblazer is the correct approach when EV component costs, basically the battery pack, are much more costly than the corresponding ICE components.  This will, of course, change with scale; however, for the near term, BEVs will remain correspondingly more expensive than the comparable ICE vehicle.  That cost disadvantage is partially concealed by Porsche positioning the Taycan in size, and by performance, in a class below the Panamera.  Additionally, Porsche needed to make its first fully electric car a sedan because of the size of the battery pack, for the desired range and performance, dictates a footprint larger than that of a two door sports coupé.  

    When most drivers experience an EV, the transition based solely on drive characteristics will rapidly occur.  EVs simply are that much better, less the noise, than an internal combustion engine.  This is the appeal of Tesla.  Telsa builds a very mediocre car but the consumer is enticed by the vibration free, quiet ride followed with unrelenting acceleration.  The Taycan builds on those basic parameters with devastating effectiveness.  Based on your comments posted on RT, you are the target customer of the Taycan.  

     

    You just answered your own question with the first sentence.

    EV are nothing more than a commoditized transportation.

    Yes a premium EV will be much nicer than a normal EV, and might have features that lesser EV doesn't have. But at the end of the day, it will just be a transportation device that get used inside cities to go from A to B and maybe C. Like my Miele fridge, it's a premium appliance, I like it very much, so much so that I have 2 of them, but there is no emotions between myself and my fridges. It stores food and drinks, that's it. I also like my Sub-Zero under counter freezers, yes I have 2 of those too, but there is also no emotional attachment. 

    When they die, I will just buy another one to replaced, period. 

    Very unlike my normal cars, I will never sell my 918, and my son told me not to sell the Turbo 3.6, that's because there IS emotional attachment there. My e-Tron is on a lease, there is zero attachment, when it's done it's done and I will get something else to replace it. Heck, I have more emotional attachment to my Honda pickup than the e-Tron. 


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