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    First Test New Corvette vs 991S

     
    2014 Chevy Corvette 7MT
    2012 Porsche 911 Carrera S PDK
    Curb weight as tested:
    3,444
    3,332
    0-30 (sec.):
    1.8
    1.5
    0-45 (sec.):
    2.8
    2.6
    0-60 (sec.):
    4.1
    3.9
    0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec.):
    3.8
    3.7
    0-75 (sec.):
    5.6
    5.5
    1/4-mile (sec @ mph):
    12.0 @ 117.3
    12.0 @ 116.5
         
    30-0 (ft):
    23
    25
    60-0 (ft):
    93
    98
         
    Skid Pad Lateral Accel (g):
    1.08
    1.03
    Slalom:
    72.8
    71.4

    But when its Manual y Manual:

     
    2014 Chevy Corvette 7MT
    2012 Porsche 911 Carrera S 7MT
    Curb weight as tested:
    3,444
    3,277
    0-30 (sec.):
    1.8
    1.9
    0-45 (sec.):
    2.8
    3.0
    0-60 (sec.):
    4.1
    4.6
    0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec.):
    3.8
    4.4
    0-75 (sec.):
    5.6
    6.3
    1/4-mile (sec @ mph):
    12.0 @ 117.3
    12.7 @ 113.2
         
    30-0 (ft):
    23
    25
    60-0 (ft):
    93
    102
         
    Skid Pad Lateral Accel (g):
    1.08
    1.04
    Slalom:
    72.8
    71.3

    Sum Up of Positives for the new Corvette: Its now more nimble, hood is lower, better seats, instruments and throttle response than before.

    Article and Video at http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/track-tests/2014-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-z51-vs-2012-porsche-911-carrera-s-track-test.htm...


    Re: First Test New Corvette vs 991S

    A few remarks here. The 991 Carrera S was not equipped with the 20 mm PASM suspension and/or PDCC. Also the Corvette was running on UHP tires, while the Carrera S was running on street tires. Just saying... 

    This comparison also proves how bad manual is (991) and how good PDK is.

    Yesterday I saw a comparison Corvette ZR1 vs. 997 Turbo (not S) on a race track and both cars had manual. Who in his sane mind would have ordered a 997 Turbo without PDK? With manual, the car lost of course (but straight line 0-60 mph and quartermile the Turbo was faster) on the track.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: First Test New Corvette vs 991S

    Well, there is one statistic that wasn't posted. The Corvette is about $75,000 cheaper. Another way to look at it is you could buy a Corvette AND a base 911 or Boxster S or Cayman for the price of the S.


    Re: First Test New Corvette vs 991S

    JimFlat6:
     
    2014 Chevy Corvette 7MT
    2012 Porsche 911 Carrera S PDK
    Curb weight as tested:
    3,444
    3,332
    0-30 (sec.):
    1.8
    1.5
    0-45 (sec.):
    2.8
    2.6
    0-60 (sec.):
    4.1
    3.9
    0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec.):
    3.8
    3.7
    0-75 (sec.):
    5.6
    5.5
    1/4-mile (sec @ mph):
    12.0 @ 117.3
    12.0 @ 116.5
         
    30-0 (ft):
    23
    25
    60-0 (ft):
    93
    98
         
    Skid Pad Lateral Accel (g):
    1.08
    1.03
    Slalom:
    72.8
    71.4

    But when its Manual y Manual:

     
    2014 Chevy Corvette 7MT
    2012 Porsche 911 Carrera S 7MT
    Curb weight as tested:
    3,444
    3,277
    0-30 (sec.):
    1.8
    1.9
    0-45 (sec.):
    2.8
    3.0
    0-60 (sec.):
    4.1
    4.6
    0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec.):
    3.8
    4.4
    0-75 (sec.):
    5.6
    6.3
    1/4-mile (sec @ mph):
    12.0 @ 117.3
    12.7 @ 113.2
         
    30-0 (ft):
    23
    25
    60-0 (ft):
    93
    102
         
    Skid Pad Lateral Accel (g):
    1.08
    1.04
    Slalom:
    72.8
    71.3

    Sum Up of Positives for the new Corvette: Its now more nimble, hood is lower, better seats, instruments and throttle response than before.

    Article and Video at http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/track-tests/2014-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-z51-vs-2012-porsche-911-carrera-s-track-test.htm...

    Are these times corrected for weather, altitude and track?  If not, nothing is resolved.


    Re: First Test New Corvette vs 991S

    CGX car nut:

     
     
     
     
     
     
         
         
     
     
     
     
     
     
         
         

    Are these times corrected for weather, altitude and track?  If not, nothing is resolved.

    What is well resolved is the  $60k USD price difference of comparably equipped 991S vs  C7 Z51 shows the pricing power that Porsche has in the tremendous long term  brand  equity of the 911 that allows it to 1) have loyal buyers happily handing their money to 2) continue to allow Porsche the privilege  to make money on this model hand over fist and stay the most profitable per units sold car maker in the world. Just imagine the profit in the coming near $200k Turbo S- probably 75k- 100k per unit, and they can keep jacking up the price and buyers wil fork it over, no questions asked.

    And Cayman lovers wonder why Porsche wont build very powerful versions of thir model thay  can easily outperform and especially out handle the 911s for a lot less money , lol !


    Re: First Test New Corvette vs 991S

    The 2014 Corvette would be a great car - for 2001.  Its a re skin of the same old platform but now it has a e diff and smaller wheels and tires than last years car to make it feel more tossable. Wow, thats quite a breakthrough! The Z51's  UHP Tires are useless in the rain, its got nonsensical paddle shifters with a manual gearbox version , all up it looks like Chevy's engineering philosophy of making a car "just good enough" continues with newest Corvette. If this is the level engineering they do for their flag ship halo sports car brand, oh well..

     


    Re: First Test New Corvette vs 991S

    JimFlat6:

    The 2014 Corvette would be a great car - for 2001.  Its a re skin of the same old platform but now it has a e diff and smaller wheels and tires than last years car to make it feel more tossable. Wow, thats quite a breakthrough! The Z51's  UHP Tires are useless in the rain, its got nonsensical paddle shifters with a manual gearbox version , all up it looks like Chevy's engineering philosophy of making a car "just good enough" continues with newest Corvette. If this is the level engineering they do for their flag ship halo sports car brand, oh well..

    All that is true... but I still wonder sometimes what the Corvette team could do if it were treated less like a skunkworks and more like a global sports car brand with 50 years of heritage.  Within what I believe are quite tiny budgets handed down, they have done very well.  The problem of course, is that Corvette is a tiny maker of niche cars within a huge car producer, unlike Porsche, which is.... a tiny maker of niche cars within a huge car producer...Smiley    Hmmm... a Corvette SUV anyone?  


    --

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: First Test New Corvette vs 991S

    And here is a new review from Motor Trend's Carlos (not our Carlos....)  


    --

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: First Test New Corvette vs 991S

    4trac:
    JimFlat6:

    The 2014 Corvette would be a great car - for 2001.  Its a re skin of the same old platform but now it has a e diff and smaller wheels and tires than last years car to make it feel more tossable. Wow, thats quite a breakthrough! The Z51's  UHP Tires are useless in the rain, its got nonsensical paddle shifters with a manual gearbox version , all up it looks like Chevy's engineering philosophy of making a car "just good enough" continues with newest Corvette. If this is the level engineering they do for their flag ship halo sports car brand, oh well..

    All that is true... but I still wonder sometimes what the Corvette team could do if it were treated less like a skunkworks and more like a global sports car brand with 50 years of heritage.  Within what I believe are quite tiny budgets handed down, they have done very well.  The problem of course, is that Corvette is a tiny maker of niche cars within a huge car producer, unlike Porsche, which is.... a tiny maker of niche cars within a huge car producer...Smiley    Hmmm... a Corvette SUV anyone?  

    The entire team developing  the C7 did so  during the early days of the GM bankruptcy and several team leaders have stated they did not know day to day if they had a job tomorrow, something 911 engineers were not feeling when they were doing the 991. Kinda makes  you wonder what they had to take off the board to keep the model from being axed by the Government Motors overseers.  Compared to the teams  developing Ferraris and 911s, Corvette team members are treated like a red headed stepchildren inside GM, while developing the only vehicle in their corporation that even is mentioned in the same breath with foreign competition.


    Re: First Test New Corvette vs 991S

    4trac:

    And here is a new review from Motor Trend's Carlos (not our Carlos....)  

     

    Smiley 

    Thanks for the video Smiley Don't care much about its looks, a bit too fast and furious type for my taste but you hanve to hand it to GM, the car is the best bang for the buck out there and it sounds great!! it seems like its not only good in a straight line but rather very capable in the corners, but most of all that it does that while still being true to the  configuration of the fun RWD and manual. Congrats to GM and very glad there are still sportcars like this. If I were in the US looking for a sportscar and my max budget were in that pricerange (in Europe the pricetag will not be that reasoable at all), I'd  consider the C7-Z51 if it weren't for its looks and image. 


    --


    Re: First Test New Corvette vs 991S

    Great bang for the buck indeed, especially compared to a Cayman or Boxster but I think GM is making a mistake here by offering manual and maybe an automatic transmission instead of a modern (sequential) shifting system.

    I also think that the design is a bit "nervous", not clean, which could keep some buyers from getting one. The sound is indeed amazing, this is how a sports car needs to sound.

    Regarding the price tag: I heard that GM offers the new Corvette for under 70k EUR in Europe, with a 3 year warranty (up to 100000 km). Unfortunately the look is too flashy and the image too...well... Smiley, so I guess they won't sell many in Europe, which is a pity.

    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: First Test New Corvette vs 991S

    4trac: unlike Porsche, which is.... a tiny maker of niche cars within a huge car producer...Smiley    Hmmm... a Corvette SUV anyone?  

    You are aware that Porsche is responsible for sports car development in the VW Group, including Lamborghini and the R8? Smiley

    The Corvette keeps up pretty well but to become a huge success, even abroad, I think that GM needs to understand the image of the Corvette in Europe (which apparently they don't Smiley) and maybe other parts of the world and they need to tone down the design a little bit because it is way too much for certain regions.

    GM could sell tons of Corvettes in Europe if they would understand the market but apparently they don't. If you have a bad image, you need to clean up this image first and by making the cars flashier, they won't succeed. Also, maybe, a name change would have been something they should think about, the Corvette brand name is too "connected" to the pimp and hooker scene over here, so people stay away from these cars because of that.

    They need better PR and better PR strategy but maybe they (GM) just don't care because this is exactly the feeling I have. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: First Test New Corvette vs 991S

    What's the story with the UHP tires? They can't be used in anything other than the dry or something?


    Re: First Test New Corvette vs 991S

    noone1:

    What's the story with the UHP tires? They can't be used in anything other than the dry or something?

    They seem like derivatives of the Michelin Sport Cup line; so dry-optimized yes, but if anything like the Sport Cups, they would not be happy in heavy rain.  

    http://michelinmedia.com/news/michelin-chosen-standard-original-equipment-fitment-2014-chevrolet-corvette-stingray/


    --

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: First Test New Corvette vs 991S

    The std Michelin  Super Sport run flats on the new Corvette were developed over two years and use tread compounds not even used yet in european sports car OEM applications of this same name, which apparently is now just a family name, like Pirellis P Zero , which has many different tire compounds and contructions  and seasonal usages , depending on what a patricular manufacturer wants, I.e., an OEM SS for Porsche may be a completely different tire than an  OEM one for Ferrari, and someone buying a generic non OEM SS that fits their " hot hatch " or equivalent car from a retailer is buying  a third , totally different tire, but they are all branded SS.

    That's how marketing goes these days in the cut throat OEM nd afterrmarket for tire brands.


    Re: First Test New Corvette vs 991S

    So is it fair to use these tires in a comparison to a car without them? I only ask not because I don't believe the Vette results, but because tires make a massive difference in performance thus it doesn't make much sense to compare them if one is a track tire and one an all season.


    Re: First Test New Corvette vs 991S

    It would be rare auto comparo where all the cars have the same tire as oem fitment -  never seen that in 40 + years of reading car reviews.

    and even if two cars came with the same tire today , the next argument would be made by internet bench racers , that  Brand  X engineers spec'd a grippier version of say, SuperSport , than Brand  Y. 

    Hey lets next argue that Brand X won the skid pad only because it factory specs 0.7 deg neg front camber vs Brand Y's 0.4 degrees !

    in the end, you run what you brung.


    Re: First Test New Corvette vs 991S

    Great points, but it begins to remind me of the Pontiac GTO tests where the car had multiple modifications beyond factory specifications to give it a little perfomance edge!! (So many decades ago, and yet so current)


    Re: First Test New Corvette vs 991S

    Same old story. Lots of power for the buck at the Corvette. Lots of plastic appearance in- and outside for the buck. 

    I'm a huge fan of the Corvette, always been. But I never ever would buy one. Fair price/value rate - a car which is not that bad at all - but still, doesnt have the image and the quality of a Porsche. If I would search in the price tag of the Corvette I might would consider a Jag F-Type over. It might be a bit slower but it would add class, style and image. And indeed finding a old fashion auto-transmission instead of a double-clutch transmission is just light years behind.

    Further on - it just proves that building strong and fast cars is more and more commodity. There are to many parts of vendors in the shelf which let you put together a car with very strong KPIs. Everyone can do it. If Chrysler, VW or Renault, or even the Asians -  if spending 50 k€ or 200 k€ - you can buy a fast car. There might be differences but they are not that huge anymore. In alternative - you can easily go to the second hand market and buy i.e. a SL55 from the old series for low bucks and you will end up fast!

    Face it - the time where you been the only fast guy on the street driving a Porsche 911 is over - since long over! 
     


    Re: First Test New Corvette vs 991S

    Lars997:

    Same old story. Lots of power for the buck at the Corvette. Lots of plastic appearance in- and outside for the buck. 

    I'm a huge fan of the Corvette, always been. But I never ever would buy one. Fair price/value rate - a car which is not that bad at all - but still, doesnt have the image and the quality of a Porsche. If I would search in the price tag of the Corvette I might would consider a Jag F-Type over. It might be a bit slower but it would add class, style and image. And indeed finding a old fashion auto-transmission instead of a double-clutch transmission is just light years behind.

    Further on - it just proves that building strong and fast cars is more and more commodity. There are to many parts of vendors in the shelf which let you put together a car with very strong KPIs. Everyone can do it. If Chrysler, VW or Renault, or even the Asians -  if spending 50 k€ or 200 k€ - you can buy a fast car. There might be differences but they are not that huge anymore. In alternative - you can easily go to the second hand market and buy i.e. a SL55 from the old series for low bucks and you will end up fast!

    Face it - the time where you been the only fast guy on the street driving a Porsche 911 is over - since long over! 
     

    Well, if we are clever, why shouldn't others be too? Smiley

    Speaking of the Corvette: Same thing here. So many manufacturers have fast and somewhat affordable cars in their product portfolio (the Nissan GT-R is another example) but I still wouldn't buy them, even if I like them. It is the whole package which counts and this is where Porsche seems to press all the right buttons so far.
    GM should really think about a name change and better quality/less flashy look, it shouldn't be difficult for them to offer a Corvette under a different name with a "cleaner" body for outside the US markets.

    Regarding the UHP tires: Yes, they provide a performance advantage on the track. Depending on the tire choice and the car, the advantage can be huge but in rain, UHP tires need to be handled with care.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: First Test New Corvette vs 991S

    I quite agree with all that has been written on the issues of Corvette in Europe. I would add also this point: lack of good Marketing. Some sports cars on the market today have a sport/racing connection like Porsche and Ferrari, while  for some others this is more distant in time  (Maserati) and for some others there is basically none (Lamborghini but then they have other strengths)  . Mercedes has a racing history on its own that is magnificent but imho fails to translate this heritage into a more mainstream sport car (the SLS is too niche I guess and the SL is not a sport car) .  Those Brands exploit them and they own a territory  in the minds of the petrolheads  with  unique attributes and their Marketing keeps developing and strengthening them . On top those Brands to Europeans are very familiar which is not probably the case with the Corvette.

    The Corvette  is a car  with great performance, interesting price points, but not selling well in Europe,  this is due to (imho) a product positioning issue. I am not sure the design of it is the only culprit . (look at the Nissan GTR design which is not a masterpiece but still managed to be a good success in Europe thanks to the Nurburgring lap times saga  and the car performance which Nissan marketing exploited to the extreme).  I guess GM left the Corvette to be auto positioned by the European market (or better said by its competitors) leaving its chances to be very slim. If Corvette has an image/positioning  issue then GM should work on it , unless Europe market is considered to be not relevant and not a priority .  At the end competition is good and healthy  and provides more choices for the customers.


    --

    911 Club Coupe, 993 4S Riviera Blau, 12' Audi S4 Avant


    Re: First Test New Corvette vs 991S

    GM should simply create a new brand name for european markets and sell some of their high-end cars (namely the Corvette) under that brand with different names, slightly changed designs, a better interior and a good double-clutch gearbox. I cannot understand that they have so interesting cars and do nothing to sell them outside US. I for myself really like the corvette. I love V8-engines, but I would never, ever buy a corvette. Driving around with such a thing would be some kind of social suicide, because 90% of the people here have no idea how good the corvette is. They only see the pimp-image.

     


    Re: First Test New Corvette vs 991S

    TomSilver:

    GM should simply create a new brand name for european markets and sell some of their high-end cars (namely the Corvette) under that brand with different names, slightly changed designs, a better interior and a good double-clutch gearbox. I cannot understand that they have so interesting cars and do nothing to sell them outside US. I for myself really like the corvette. I love V8-engines, but I would never, ever buy a corvette. Driving around with such a thing would be some kind of social suicide, because 90% of the people here have no idea how good the corvette is. They only see the pimp-image.

     

    Smiley Maybe someone from GM reads this, it would really help them.

    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: First Test New Corvette vs 991S

    Funny thing is that in the US a 911 has an 'A$$hole' image attached to it but no one questions why Porsche does not change the design for the US.  My neighbor is a Chevy dealer and always drives home new Corvettes on the weekends.  Can't say I ever wanted a ride eventhough he would lend me the keys anytime.  Guess I'm not a pimp...


    Re: First Test New Corvette vs 991S

    Leawood911:

    Funny thing is that in the US a 911 has an 'A$$hole' image attached to it but no one questions why Porsche does not change the design for the US. 

    Probably because they're selling relatively well here.


    --

    2005 997S Blk/Blk


    Re: First Test New Corvette vs 991S

    Leawood911:

    Funny thing is that in the US a 911 has an 'A$$hole' image attached to it but no one questions why Porsche does not change the design for the US.  My neighbor is a Chevy dealer and always drives home new Corvettes on the weekends.  Can't say I ever wanted a ride eventhough he would lend me the keys anytime.  Guess I'm not a pimp...

    Strange. I know many people in the US but this is the first time I hear this. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: First Test New Corvette vs 991S

    m4ever:

    I quite agree with all that has been written on the issues of Corvette in Europe. I would add also this point: lack of good Marketing. Some sports cars on the market today have a sport/racing connection like Porsche and Ferrari, while  for some others this is more distant in time  (Maserati) and for some others there is basically none (Lamborghini but then they have other strengths)  . Mercedes has a racing history on its own that is magnificent but imho fails to translate this heritage into a more mainstream sport car (the SLS is too niche I guess and the SL is not a sport car) .  Those Brands exploit them and they own a territory  in the minds of the petrolheads  with  unique attributes and their Marketing keeps developing and strengthening them . On top those Brands to Europeans are very familiar which is not probably the case with the Corvette.

    The Corvette  is a car  with great performance, interesting price points, but not selling well in Europe,  this is due to (imho) a product positioning issue. I am not sure the design of it is the only culprit . (look at the Nissan GTR design which is not a masterpiece but still managed to be a good success in Europe thanks to the Nurburgring lap times saga  and the car performance which Nissan marketing exploited to the extreme).  I guess GM left the Corvette to be auto positioned by the European market (or better said by its competitors) leaving its chances to be very slim. If Corvette has an image/positioning  issue then GM should work on it , unless Europe market is considered to be not relevant and not a priority .  At the end competition is good and healthy  and provides more choices for the customers.

    The corvette most certainly does not lack in contemporary race winning connection (in Europe...) been going a decade longer than the 911 and its current bang for the buck ratio as described earlier in here indicates stronger than anything of its applied engineering advance and resourcefulness.Maybe GM marketing approach to the European market has been lacking all across the model range not limited to the Corvette,as in fact most US manufactures,unless they intentionally neglect that market -it seems that US manufactures can live with meaningless European sales numbers whereas any significant German car producer can't ignore the US market and hence the difference in marketing approach,just my 2...

    Btw,the pimp image thing indicates more about  those who make the comment than about it's validity 

     


    Re: First Test New Corvette vs 991S

    Preconceived notions about other drivers due to their cars, so wrong; and yet sometimes so humorousyes

    However, the next time that I am in Europe and looking to get laid, I take it that Corvette drivers would be the guys to talk to ??

    Just kidding, a 26 year long habit is hard to break; and at 50+ it is challenging to keep up with.wink

    Oh, and 911 drivers are not all A$$holes, it just might have a little bit to do with the automotive authority that some drivers impose on others. Not that there is anything wrong with imposing correct driving standards; it's just that some don't apprecitate that which is even correct. (They don't even know).


    Re: First Test New Corvette vs 991S

    hugo:
    Btw,the pimp image thing indicates more about  those who make the comment than about it's validity 

     

    Well...it depends on where you grew up. I grew up in Europe and I don't know many people who don't "feel" the pimp image of the Corvette. For a reason I might say because it is true, in the 80s and 90s, a US car was kind of a status symbol in the red light business. Let me guess: You didn't grow up in (Western) Europe?! Smiley Romanians for example don't have a clue about he "pimp" image of the Corvette and yes, I know that you are not born in Romania (neither am I born in Germany). Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: First Test New Corvette vs 991S

    Gladstone:

    Preconceived notions about other drivers due to their cars, so wrong; and yet sometimes so humorousyes

    However, the next time that I am in Europe and looking to get laid, I take it that Corvette drivers would be the guys to talk to ??

    Just kidding, a 26 year long habit is hard to break; and at 50+ it is challenging to keep up with.wink

    Oh, and 911 drivers are not all A$$holes, it just might have a little bit to do with the automotive authority that some drivers impose on others. Not that there is anything wrong with imposing correct driving standards; it's just that some don't apprecitate that which is even correct. (They don't even know).

    Pimps try to blend in nowadays...I doubt that they still drive Corvettes. Smiley

    The pimp image of the Corvette (or better said US cars) comes from the (70s), 80s and 90s, when US cars were kind of a status symbol of the red light scene over here. This is not something I or others imagined, it was a reality. With the US Army stationed in Europe, well... Smiley Of course all soldiers and the other military and civilian personnel were virgins and/or faithful to their partners. Smiley You get my point...it was a huge business and since many customers were Americans, so were the cars.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


     
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