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    Re: Porsche August US sales

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    I wish ! Yes, it was a Sunday morning but sadly I didn't see any F or L cars either



    Did you check the parking lots of all the Starbucks coffee shops?

    Re: Porsche August US sales

    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    For the first time ever, I got a call from a dealer at Newport Auto Center asking if I was still interested in buying a 911. Sales must be pretty bad.



    Alan things are so bad for Porsche, my former saleperson called me and left a voicemail to come in and look at the "new" 911 and test drive it. He knows me well and understands that I have absolutely no interest in buying a 911. Despite knowing this, calling me is very telling.

    BTW, I read an artice in EVO in comparing the Gallardo 560LP and the GT2. They liked both cars and found then equally fast. However, they also pointed out that the GT2 did not attract any attention since most people assumed it was nothing more than another 911. The 'evolution' styling concept is very stale and will hurt future sales.

    Re: Porsche August US sales

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    For the first time ever, I got a call from a dealer at Newport Auto Center asking if I was still interested in buying a 911. Sales must be pretty bad.



    Alan things are so bad for Porsche, my former saleperson called me and left a voicemail to come in and look at the "new" 911 and test drive it. He knows me well and understands that I have absolutely no interest in buying a 911. Despite knowing this, calling me is very telling.

    BTW, I read an artice in EVO in comparing the Gallardo 560LP and the GT2. They liked both cars and found then equally fast. However, they also pointed out that the GT2 did not attract any attention since most people assumed it was nothing more than another 911. The 'evolution' styling concept is very stale and will hurt future sales.



    Nothing like as stale as your posts, Nick, because they are always the same, without even signs of evolution.


    And I thought that you might be cracking up when you wrote that you could now consider a Porsche, since sales were dropping off.

    Re: Porsche August US sales

    Fritz, do you work for Porsche?

    I ask because it would explain your fanatical defense of Porsche.

    Re: Porsche August US sales

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Fritz, do you work for Porsche?

    I ask because it would explain your fanatical defense of Porsche.



    Nick, just countering your fanatical crusade against Porsche would be a full-time job in itself.

    It's a lousy unproductive job, but someone has to do it.

    Re: Porsche August US sales

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Fritz, do you work for Porsche?

    I ask because it would explain your fanatical defense of Porsche.



    So now those that counter your anti-Porsche crusade posts, have to be on a pay roll? Are you implying that mean that you work for Ferrari then?

    Don't worry so much about the small profitable company that has just purchased the giant VW, and worry more about how FIAT is doing during these times of economic crisis in EU and US because that will have a bigger impact on what you drive in the future

    BTW, were do I pick up my check?

    Re: Porsche August US sales

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Fritz, do you work for Porsche?

    I ask because it would explain your fanatical defense of Porsche.



    Nick, just countering your fanatical crusade against Porsche would be a full-time job in itself.

    It's a lousy unproductive job, but someone has to do it.





    I propose a system with a schedule with 8 hour shifts between us in order to manage that 24hr job

    Re: Porsche August US sales

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Fritz, do you work for Porsche?

    I ask because it would explain your fanatical defense of Porsche.



    So now those that counter your anti-Porsche crusade posts, have to be on a pay roll? Are you implying that mean that you work for Ferrari then?

    Don't worry so much about the small profitable company that has just purchased the giant VW, and worry more about how FIAT is doing during these times of economic crisis in EU and US because that will have a bigger impact on what you drive in the future

    BTW, were do I pick up my check?



    I am becoming increasingly concerned that Ferrari is following the path of Porsche. The California GT is the first step. It is a Ferrari Boxster.

    There may be no place for me to go in the car ownership world. If that happens, I will consider Porsche again. Why spend the money?

    Re: Porsche August US sales

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Fritz, do you work for Porsche?

    I ask because it would explain your fanatical defense of Porsche.



    So now those that counter your anti-Porsche crusade posts, have to be on a pay roll? Are you implying that mean that you work for Ferrari then?

    Don't worry so much about the small profitable company that has just purchased the giant VW, and worry more about how FIAT is doing during these times of economic crisis in EU and US because that will have a bigger impact on what you drive in the future

    BTW, were do I pick up my check?



    I am becoming increasingly concerned that Ferrari is following the path of Porsche. The California GT is the first step. It is Ferrari's Boxster.

    There may be no place for me to go in the car ownership world. If that happens, I will consider Porsche again. Why spend the money?



    Nick, Ferrari is a business after all and they have to make to create a volume in order to be consistently viable over time. Hence they have to open up more to the mainstream, gradually.

    I don't think that Porsche with their germanic logic would do what they are doing without very good reasons. They have been just ahead of the others, in this respect at least.

    Ferrari, in spite of the huge valuation of their brand goodwill, have been living parasitically off the back of the FIAT group for 4 decades now. And FIAT nowadays, financially, is not what it used to be in the 60s-80s when it had a practical monopoly of car sales in Italy.

    Re: Porsche August US sales

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    I am becoming increasingly concerned that Ferrari is following the path of Porsche. The California GT is the first step. It is a Ferrari Boxster.

    There may be no place for me to go in the car ownership world. If that happens, I will consider Porsche again. Why spend the money?



    I don't Ferrari intends to follow Porsche's path, maybe adapt a bit to modern market times by widening their model lineup and customer range for more stability in the future, but I don't think Porsche's scheme would work for Ferrari, and viceversa.

    And even so, there are still many things besides brand image that differentiates Porsche and Ferrari cars that you would still appreciate and be worthwhile paying for if you prefer Ferrari.

    I'm just shocked you just said you would consider a Porsche... you have always made clear that you don't like the looks, the lack of exclusivety, the engine placement, and a long ect. Surely you'd consider Lambo or Aston before Porsche

    Also, you are aware that after all this time, if you ever purchase a 911 you will never hear the end of it from us in the forum don't you?

    Re: Porsche August US sales

    Quote:
    ISUK said:
    Quote:
    dreamcar said:

    I was in my Porsche dealer last Saturday taking my car in for a service, I was looking at the cars in the showroom and all the salesmen just sat in their offices chatting and drinking tea. I guess that they are not used to having to try hard to get sales!



    The realities of working in a recession are going to be a shock for some of the younger people in the OPC network who've only ever known the good times. There will be redundancies before long amongst them and some dealers may not survive. I know of one who is looking to ditch the franchise and have heard from a couple of independent traders of OPC's peddling used cars out to the trade at seriously knocked down prices to make it appear as though their stock is turning over.



    The message must have got through! I went down to collect my Boxster after it's 2 year service and the salesman tried everything he could to sell me a 3 month old ex demonstrator Carrera C4S, 4,000 miles, cost new Pounds84,000 for less than Pounds70,000 and offered me Pounds3k+ over book price trade in. Take the car away for the weekend to get to know it, no obligation etc etc.

    It took determination of steel and dire threats from SWMBO to walk away from the deal.

    Re: Porsche August US sales

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    I am becoming increasingly concerned that Ferrari is following the path of Porsche. The California GT is the first step. It is a Ferrari Boxster.

    There may be no place for me to go in the car ownership world. If that happens, I will consider Porsche again. Why spend the money?



    See. Nick, you are now beginning to understand why I frequently stand up for Porsche's philosophies. I've been driving the products for 30 years and have generally been very satisfied with them. If Porsche was to change track now, or even go bust (nearly happened just 15 years ago, after all!), there would also be "no place for me to go in the car ownership world".

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    I'm just shocked you just said you would consider a Porsche... you have always made clear that you don't like the looks, the lack of exclusivety, the engine placement, and a long ect. Surely you'd consider Lambo or Aston before Porsche


    Keep up the good work, Carlos. We can't have Nick driving a Porsche. It would ruin the brand's image!

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:

    Also, you are aware that after all this time, if you ever purchase a 911 you will never hear the end of it from us in the forum don't you?


    That wouldn't arise. Nick would desert rennteam and spend all his time on some Ferrari forum telling other members what cr@p their car is and that they should trade it for a Porsche!

    Re: Porsche August US sales

    Nick, when it's time to replace your F430 Spider, why don't you get a LP560 Spyder (when that comes out)?

    Re: Porsche August US sales

    Quote:
    dreamcar said:
    The message must have got through! I went down to collect my Boxster after it's 2 year service and the salesman tried everything he could to sell me a 3 month old ex demonstrator Carrera C4S, 4,000 miles, cost new Pounds84,000 for less than Pounds70,000 and offered me Pounds3k+ over book price trade in. Take the car away for the weekend to get to know it, no obligation etc etc.

    It took determination of steel and dire threats from SWMBO to walk away from the deal.



    Did you take the C4S for the no-obligations weekend test-drive before walking away from the deal, or did SWMBO also veto that?

    Does she know something about your "determination of steel" that you are not telling us?

    Re: Porsche August US sales

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    dreamcar said:
    The message must have got through! I went down to collect my Boxster after it's 2 year service and the salesman tried everything he could to sell me a 3 month old ex demonstrator Carrera C4S, 4,000 miles, cost new Pounds84,000 for less than Pounds70,000 and offered me Pounds3k+ over book price trade in. Take the car away for the weekend to get to know it, no obligation etc etc.

    It took determination of steel and dire threats from SWMBO to walk away from the deal.



    Did you take the C4S for the no-obligations weekend test-drive before walking away from the deal, or did SWMBO also veto that?

    Does she know something about your "determination of steel" that you are not telling us?



    No SWMBO made the serious mistake of leaving me at the dealership unsupervised after dropping me off to collect the car. I am not brave enough to turn up at home unannounced with a C4S, so I declined their kind offer..

    She doesn't buy into the idea that a lifetime of driving is incomplete without having owned a 911, as hard as I might try to convince her otherwise...

    Re: Porsche August US sales

    Basically it would be a capitulation on my part. Despite some of my issue with Porsche management they still have brand recognition albeit tainted. Mr reasoning is this; why pay for a iconic brand (Ferrari) who is on a clear path to compromise the very characteristics that make it iconic?

    As I have consistently written, performance is only ONE criteria in purchasing a sport car. You alluded to several others which I valued. Increasingly, I am finding owning a sport car not very smart.

    No doubt Porsche is a step down but it maintains a high brand image with a good performance/value ratio. If I am going to own one, at least spend a lot less money for it.

    Final thought. The other day two owners of sport cars were sentenced to four years in jail because while "racing" on a public street, one of the cars hit and killed a pedestrian. We all know racing is stupid but this could happening while anyone one of us is out ALONE exercising our high performance cars. I do not care to engage in Russian roulette.

    Re: Porsche August US sales

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Basically it would be a capitulation on my part. Despite some of my issue with Porsche management they still have brand recognition albeit tainted. Mr reasoning is this; why pay for a iconic brand (Ferrari) who is on a clear path to compromise the very characteristics that make it iconic?

    As I have consistently written, performance is only ONE criteria in purchasing a sport car. You alluded to several others which I valued. Increasingly, I am finding owning a sport car not very smart.

    No doubt Porsche is a step down but it maintains a high brand image with a good performance/value ratio. If I am going to own one, at least spend a lot less money for it.

    Final thought. The other day two owners of sport cars were sentenced to four years in jail because while "racing" on a public street, one of the cars hit and killed a pedestrian. We all know racing is stupid but this could happening while anyone one of us is out ALONE exercising our high performance cars. I do not care to engage in Russian roulette.



    finally Nick starts to see the light!!!

    Re: Porsche August US sales

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Basically it would be a capitulation on my part. Despite some of my issue with Porsche management they still have brand recognition albeit tainted. Mr reasoning is this; why pay for a iconic brand (Ferrari) who is on a clear path to compromise the very characteristics that make it iconic?

    As I have consistently written, performance is only ONE criteria in purchasing a sport car. You alluded to several others which I valued. Increasingly, I am finding owning a sport car not very smart.

    No doubt Porsche is a step down but it maintains a high brand image with a good performance/value ratio. If I am going to own one, at least spend a lot less money for it.

    Final thought. The other day two owners of sport cars were sentenced to four years in jail because while "racing" on a public street, one of the cars hit and killed a pedestrian. We all know racing is stupid but this could happening while anyone one of us is out ALONE exercising our high performance cars. I do not care to engage in Russian roulette.



    Ok, who are you and what have you done with Nick?!


    Seriously, and what about Lambo or Aston? you think the Porsche 911 is ugly and a dime a dozen, two things you value a lot when purchasing a sportcar, yet these other two are similarly priced to Porsche but more exclusive and extravagant and nice looking respectively, wouldn't they be a better option?

    Re: Porsche August US sales

    THe AM and Lambo are good alternatives. However, both are BAD values. Each depreciate like there is no tomorrow. Though percentage wise a Porsche depreciates almost as much, it is substantially cheaper. You can pick up a Porsche for less than $100,000. Any depreciation on it is tolerable.

    Yesterday I was behind a yellow 997 Turbo Cab and must tell you from the rear is is pretty ugly. It looks like a Beetle (insect). The coupe rear is much better looking.

    Re: Porsche August US sales

    Quote:
    EricAlain said:
    I can't agree more ....

    Another exemple:

    Porsche sales in the UK
    July 08: 587 units (-15%)
    YTD (7M-08) -25% !!!!



    If US sales are so bad, why are they still at maximum production

    http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/apwire/5efc8bbe4adb4b4ba24794cb5d4771ce.htm

    Re: Porsche August US sales

    I guess its a matter of taste, I have never liked the 911 in cab form, the hump it has does not help its lines. Then again I'm a fan of coupes and cab is an unacceptable compromise for me (heavier, weaker chasis, worse aerodinamics, suspensions options limited, etc). For others its the best option and the one they enjoy the best and wouldn't have it anyother way.

    BTW, $100k would get you are lucky to get a base 997 here in Europe...

    You can go for the GT2 and that one won't depreciate as much, and its very exclusive, though a handfull to drive.

    Re: Porsche August US sales

    Nick, another suggestion: how about a Pagani Zonda F ?

    Re: Porsche August US sales

    Quote:
    dreamcar said:It took determination of steel and dire threats from SWMBO to walk away from the deal.


    Well, DC, I never get any offers at all when I go in, so either they can smell my steely determination at 100 paces, or I'm such an obvious pauper they don't even look up from their coffee!

    Re: Porsche August US sales

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    Nick, another suggestion: how about a Pagani Zonda F ?



    Way too much money. Also, I don't believe they have a dealership in the US.

    Carlos, I have not ruled out a 997S coupe. I like the lines especially from the rear though the front is uninspiring.

    The GT2 though very limited in production has a horrible depreciation here in the US. The reasons are difficulty in driving it and it looks like every other 911. Nothing to distinguish it as a $200,000 car.

    Re: Porsche August US sales

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    Nick, another suggestion: how about a Pagani Zonda F ?



    Way too much money. Also, I don't believe they have a dealership in the US.

    Carlos, I have not ruled out a 997S coupe. I like the lines especially from the rear though the front is uninspiring.

    The GT2 though very limited in production has a horrible depreciation here in the US. The reasons are difficulty in driving it and it looks like every other 911. Nothing to distinguish it as a $200,000 car.



    Oh okay - I just thought that the Zonda F would tick all the right boxes for you. Stupendous performance, sublime handling, exquisite build quality, extremely exclusive, very individual & highly flamboyant... all in all, it's a car that makes even the most mundane journey into a special event so I thought it would be just right for you.

    As for price, it's about the same as a CGT and I recall you have said on a few occasions that if the CGT had been fitted with PSM (i.e. electronic safety aids), then there would be one already parked in your garage. So I assumed it would be within your budget. Sorry, my mistake.

    I still come back to my previous suggestion: Gallardo LP560-4 Spyder (when it comes out). It is really special and Lamborghini has really matured with the introduction of this revised model.

    Re: Porsche August US sales

    Hey, you captured my taste in cars.

    I believe the Zonda is around $600,000 and as I indicated earlier, I don't believe they are sold in the US.

    Re: Porsche August US sales

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Hey, you captured my taste in cars.

    I believe the Zonda is around $600,000 and as I indicated earlier, I don't believe they are sold in the US.



    The Zonda is even more of difficult to drive than a GT2. What persuaded you to even consider a 997S? The relatively tolerable price tag?

    Re: Porsche August US sales

    Quote:
    dreamcar said:
    Quote:
    ISUK said:
    Quote:
    dreamcar said:

    I was in my Porsche dealer last Saturday taking my car in for a service, I was looking at the cars in the showroom and all the salesmen just sat in their offices chatting and drinking tea. I guess that they are not used to having to try hard to get sales!



    The realities of working in a recession are going to be a shock for some of the younger people in the OPC network who've only ever known the good times. There will be redundancies before long amongst them and some dealers may not survive. I know of one who is looking to ditch the franchise and have heard from a couple of independent traders of OPC's peddling used cars out to the trade at seriously knocked down prices to make it appear as though their stock is turning over.



    The message must have got through! I went down to collect my Boxster after it's 2 year service and the salesman tried everything he could to sell me a 3 month old ex demonstrator Carrera C4S, 4,000 miles, cost new Pounds84,000 for less than Pounds70,000 and offered me Pounds3k+ over book price trade in. Take the car away for the weekend to get to know it, no obligation etc etc.

    It took determination of steel and dire threats from SWMBO to walk away from the deal.



    Simple answer - you should have said this to the salesman "Put the engine in the right place and you've got a deal!".

    Re: Porsche August US sales

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Hey, you captured my taste in cars.

    I believe the Zonda is around $600,000 and as I indicated earlier, I don't believe they are sold in the US.



    The Zonda is even more of difficult to drive than a GT2. What persuaded you to even consider a 997S? The relatively tolerable price tag?



    Yep! Though it is nothing special, it is a good value.

    Re: Porsche August US sales

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Hey, you captured my taste in cars.

    I believe the Zonda is around $600,000 and as I indicated earlier, I don't believe they are sold in the US.



    The Zonda is even more of difficult to drive than a GT2. What persuaded you to even consider a 997S? The relatively tolerable price tag?



    Yep! Though it is nothing special, it is a good value.



    Have you recently changed your medication, Nick?

    The new one seems to work better for you.

     
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