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    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    Damn, Porsche just keeps on adding performance.  Makes it hard to be satisfied with a current model.  Both a blessing and a curse.

    And it's not just performance that's added.  While I understand that my prior 2009 Cayenne Turbo S was an earlier generation than my new 2015 Cayenne Turbo, the 2015 model is substantially superior in build quality, solidity, comfort, ride, conveniences and design.  And I am certain the next Cayenne generation will put my current car to shame.

    I am amazed at the effort and dedication and talent of Porsche designers and engineers...


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    Wonderbar:

    Damn, Porsche just keeps on adding performance.  Makes it hard to be satisfied with a current model.  Both a blessing and a curse.

    And it's not just performance that's added.  While I understand that my prior 2009 Cayenne Turbo S was an earlier generation than my new 2015 Cayenne Turbo, the 2015 model is substantially superior in build quality, solidity, comfort, ride, conveniences and design.  And I am certain the next Cayenne generation will put my current car to shame.

    I am amazed at the effort and dedication and talent of Porsche designers and engineers...

    I'm not that impressed I'm afraid.

    The Macan Turbo just doesn't tickle my senses. Actually, it may be the first top of the line Porsche which doesn't. It is a boring car with a pretty generic sound and drive feel, even if it feels sportier than its Q5 counterpart. 

    The new 911 won't be much different I'm afraid: I talked to people who drove it and while everyone is impressed with the new power feel and delivery, the comments are similar to my impression of the Macan Turbo. Nice to drive, great power but pretty generic for a Porsche. Something is missing.

    Regarding the 2015 Cayenne. AutoBILD Sportscars recently made a comparison between the new Cayenne Turbo S, the new BMW X5 M and the new Range Rover Sport SVR. The brake system (yes, that fantastic new 10-piston PCCB system) was the worst from all three, the BMW actually had the best brake and high speed braking was much much better in the BMW. I'm not impressed with the new Cayenne Turbo S, especially considering the price tag. The BMW also had almost the same performance from 0-100 and 0-200 kph and furthermore, it was faster on the track. So where is the superiority of the Porsche top of the line product? The benchmark? Smiley The price difference between both is basically a Boxster. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    Don't forget - once you have a Turbo it should be easy to get some improvements through software changes and increase of the Turbo boost. I guess there will be a lot of Tuners around specializing within.

    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    Lars997:
    Don't forget - once you have a Turbo it should be easy to get some improvements through software changes and increase of the Turbo boost. I guess there will be a lot of Tuners around specializing within.

    True but Porsche already suspects that, so there will be precautions which will make it difficult to achieve higher power levels. Not sure however how well this will work though. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    RC, can you post the AutoBILD Sportcars  test?    I could not find it on the German only site.  Thanks...


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    thanks for your honesty RC!  curious what you think is behind this generic-ization of the Porsche brand?  

    also, how will the "new" 911 (i'm assuming you're referring to the 991.2) will be different than the current generation in terms of drive feel -- i would think/hope that they are just enhancing it in every measurable category -- and not neutering its Porsche-ness while delivery more power?

    thanks again!


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    "Generic-ization of the Porsche brand"?  Let's see:

    Cayman GT4, GTS

    991 GTS (RC's keeper); GT3; GT3RS, 

    Boxster Spyder; GTS

    918, 919

     

    And until i see the AutoBILD test, I am withholding judgement on the Cayenne Turbo S "versus" the BMW X5M. The review I saw showed 0-60 mph at 4.0 for Turbo S, 4.5 for M5.  And design and build quality between the two--a matter of personal choice certainly, but to me the Turbo S is miles ahead of the "X5 with scoops and badges look" of the BMW. And on racetrack and price comparisons--well let's open this thread to yet another Corvette vs. 991 debate.

     


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    In the meantime, here is a videoclip from AutoBILD with the X5M vs Cayenne Turbo S. The CTS is slightly faster around the track and also a bit faster when it comes to acceleration figures

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JllnZRWcKlk


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    991.2 CS in streets of Prague without camo.

     


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    Wonderbar:

    RC, can you post the AutoBILD Sportcars  test?    I could not find it on the German only site.  Thanks...

    I can post the test results later today (if I find the magazine but I think I still have it somewhere).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    KresoF1:

    991.2 CS in streets of Prague without camo.

     

    Tail lights are still camouflaged. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    You mean the foil on the tail lights?  

    Btw, 991.2 is fully ready. Lot of preproduction cars are running across EU at the moment.


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    mateoche:

    thanks for your honesty RC!  curious what you think is behind this generic-ization of the Porsche brand?  

    1. New EU regulations (emissions, noise, etc.)

    2. VW (seriously)

    3. Cheaper production using "generic" parts with other brands/models

    4. Change in customer mentality and perception (seriously, the typical old school Porsche customer seems to disappear...)

    5. Many new Porsche employees come from other brands like VW, Audi, BMW and Mercedes.

    Just wild guesses of course...

    also, how will the "new" 911 (i'm assuming you're referring to the 991.2) will be different than the current generation in terms of drive feel -- i would think/hope that they are just enhancing it in every measurable category -- and not neutering its Porsche-ness while delivery more power?

    thanks again!

    Chassis-wise, the facelift will be, according to many claims I heard from people who drove one, amazing. Apparently Porsche succeeded in finding some further enhancements and I even heard that AWS has been discussed as an option for the Carrera facelift but I do not know if it will be available as an option. Not for free (as on the GT3/RS and Turbo/S) of course.

    The engine feels much stronger and everyone who drove the car apparently loves the engine feel. Not so much the engine sound though but it is better than many had expected and better than the Turbo/S sound.

    So while Porsche seems to keep that typical Porsche feel in the chassis department, people will have to deal with something new in the engine/exhaust sound department. Judging by the many positive comments about the engine power feel, I assume that most Porsche customers will be happy with the new engines. Not so sure about us diehard hardcore old school customers, this is a different story. Smiley

    For example, I do not like the Macan Turbo. It is fast, it is easy to drive and it is a wonderful daily driver but I avoid driving it as much as possible because I just don't like it. It doesn't feel like a Porsche and kind of feels much different than my previous Cayenne models. I really tried hard to like this car but the Macan is definitely something I wouldn't buy for myself. If Porsche switches the Cayenne to V6 engines, I would be done with the Cayenne as well.

    I am sorry but the engine/exhaust sound are important things to me and even if they would put 700 hp into the Turbo S, I wouldn't get one with the current exhaust sound. Pure boredom.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    KresoF1:

    You mean the foil on the tail lights?  

    Yes. Smiley

    Btw, 991.2 is fully ready. Lot of preproduction cars are running across EU at the moment.

    I know, the final specs are ready as well.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    RC:
     

    I am sorry but the engine/exhaust sound are important things to me and even if they would put 700 hp into the Turbo S, I wouldn't get one with the current exhaust sound. Pure boredom.

    Couldn´t agree more, engine sound in more than half of the fun on a sports car, at any speed, in any ocassion you are always with a smile on your face while driving and this is what matters, having fun all the time thru speed, handling and sound Smiley


    --

    J.Seven

    997.2 Cab 2S

    Maserati Quattroporte Sport GTS

    BMW X6 4.0D

     


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    I agree that sound is important to the enjoyment of a sports car.  I can honestly still "hear" the engine sound of every Porsche I have owned and driven on the street--particularly the 904GTS with full race engine and stinger exhaust.  And though now somewhat antiquated, my 1961 Super 90 Roadster has a splendid direct engine rasp particularly with the top down.  I totally get what RC and J Seven are saying.

    But I also love the quiet and powerful push of my Cayenne Turbo. A stealth sort of experience, and one that draws far fewer hateful glares from motorists and pedestrians in a large metropolitan city.

    So I vote for both experiences and types of sport driving.  Now if I can still manage to afford both in my world of college tuition and other temptations...­čśť


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    With BMW happend the same.
    I am driving BMWs for almost 30 years as daily driver.
    In February I bought a new 4 series. A big mistake. It feels dull, emotionless. The worst is the electrical steering. Very light and dead.
    Even that everything else of that car is beautyful and fantastic for the price, absolutly no fun to drive. After 4 month of ownership I drive it only rarely. Almost everytime I use my years old second car....

    The new car is for sell now.....


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    KresoF1:

    991.2 CS in streets of Prague without camo.

     

    I like it.


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    acky:

    With BMW happend the same.
    I am driving BMWs for almost 30 years as daily driver.
    In February I bought a new 4 series. A big mistake. It feels dull, emotionless. The worst is the electrical steering. Very light and dead.
    Even that everything else of that car is beautyful and fantastic for the price, absolutly no fun to drive. After 4 month of ownership I drive it only rarely. Almost everytime I use my years old second car....

    The new car is for sell now.....

    Yes, I used to be a BMW fan also.  They make nothing that interests me now.  Amazing how quickly every one of their motors went turbocharged and while they used to keep hydraulic steering on the M cars, that's gone now too.

    Glad to see that the 991.2 is still very pretty.  I think an improvement in that respect over the 991.1.  Also, where I live at high altitude, the new car is going to be vastly faster - same for our several members who live in the Alps...

    I imagine that the new Cayman S with Turbo 4 will be faster than my GT4 up here...


    --

     

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

     


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    Agree with Grant--new model looks pretty.  Looking forward to seeing it in Frankfurt.  Anyone going to press days there?  Would be fun to say hello..


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    Spyderidol:
    KresoF1:

    991.2 CS in streets of Prague without camo.

     

    I like it.

    I think the .1 engine cover looked much better. 


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    That's what I was thingking, loks good in general but the 991.2 engine cover with the vertical slits just doens't look right, I'm sure we will get used to it, but don't think it was a foward design move, but more a tweek forced by the need to create some differentiation with the 991.1. On the other hand I'm sure they fixed the downward sloping lateral edge of the front turn signal lights of the 991.1 in the 991.2.


    --

     

     


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    Carlos from Spain:

    That's what I was thingking, loks good in general but the 991.2 engine cover with the vertical slits just doens't look right, I'm sure we will get used to it, but don't think it was a foward design move, but more a tweek forced by the need to create some differentiation with the 991.1.

    Agree... I hate it when marketing trumps engineering

    On the other hand I'm sure they fixed the downward sloping lateral edge of the front turn signal lights of the 991.1 in the 991.2.

    Yeah.. but we knew that already when the 991.1 was introduced, didn't we... Smiley


    --

    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    acky:

    With BMW happend the same.
    I am driving BMWs for almost 30 years as daily driver.
    In February I bought a new 4 series. A big mistake. It feels dull, emotionless. The worst is the electrical steering. Very light and dead.
    Even that everything else of that car is beautyful and fantastic for the price, absolutly no fun to drive. After 4 month of ownership I drive it only rarely. Almost everytime I use my years old second car....

    The new car is for sell now.....

    The new BMW M3/M4 (and 3/4 series) is actually a good example for "dull". Smiley

    Actually, I am surprised how good the new C63 sounds (compared to the M3/M4).

    Also, I will never understand what the deal is with that sport exhaust on my wife's Macan Turbo. It sounds good from outside (not great though, pretty generic) but from the inside, you barely hear a thing. So basically, the sport exhaust is for the people outside, which makes only little sense. This car badly needs a sound symposer.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    I think the other thing to understand is that now Porsches are purchased by a much wider range of customer than before.  People buy them because they look cool and because of the brand name.  As such, the cars Porsche make have to cater to this audience.  

    As for BMW, I'm hoping the forthcoming M2 will represent a return to form.


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    The old engine cover was nicer - but the rest of the car is just SmileySmileySmiley


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    True that the Porsche customer base is broader now, but so is the Porsche model range.  If you want a Hybrid SUV, there is the Cayenne, if you want a rocket sled there is the GTRS, etc….

     

    And if the company remains well managed and true to its racing heritage, more and broader model sales means more money for investment and engineering...


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    KresoF1:

    991.2 CS in streets of Prague without camo.

     

    From the shape of the license plate area, is this a U.S. variant?  


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    Don't know, but the street pothole on the right sure looks like a U.S. variant….


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    CGX car nut:
    KresoF1:

    991.2 CS in streets of Prague without camo.

     

    From the shape of the license plate area, is this a U.S. variant?  

    It is indeed.


    --

    fritz


     
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