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    There's dirty driving and there's this

    The Porsche driver must feel proud of himself....Smiley

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmeyvQcciTQ

     

     

     

     


    Re: There's dirty driving and there's this

    this is unbelievable


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    Re: There's dirty driving and there's this

    The vette rear-ended him trying to push him off the track. I would have done the same thing if I were the Porsche driver!


    Re: There's dirty driving and there's this

    Both drivers (Bergmeister and Magnussen) were put on a 2 race probation for the start of the 2010 ALMS season.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: There's dirty driving and there's this

    This is what Lou Gigliotti had to say about this:

    "Hi Guys,

    First let me say that Jan is the only driver on the Chevy team that came to congratulate us last race for out qualifying the Factory team. He is a class act.

    He is also one tough driver .

    First incident in pit out lane: the rule is there because there are always cars coming out of the pits and they have to travel around past turn 2 to enter the track. So driving 4 wheels into that lane is just asking for trouble. If there was a car coming out of the pits then, it would have been really bad for them.

    Let me also say that in practice (yes practice) there was only one car that constantly hit us (yes hit us) or shoved our corvette into the dirt and they were the Corvette factory cars. Even when we were waiving them by, they would brush us or squeeze us. even at Atlanta, on the long straight as we were passing them they squeezed our driver (on video) against the grass for some reason.
    I can only assume that the drivers were "Instructed" to intimidate us so we might be off our game and not repeat the Atlanta qualifying scenario.

    No other cars on the track do that. Not to us and not to the others. Just the factory Corvette team. (must be the foreigners)

    At any rate, at Laguna, which is Government owned, they did not want to move the inside pit wall toward the paddock to widen the exit of the pits to make room for the flagger's stand at start finish. So they pushed the pit wall toward the track side. so the pit wall curves toward the track side. If you look at the video, you will see that if you run within inches of the pit wall and stay totally straight on your steering, you WILL hit the part of the wall that is pushed toward the track side.

    This is a common crash at Laguna. It would not require the 45 car to do anything for this crash to happen.

    If you look at the video, you will see that Jan sees the wall coming and he turns to the right to avoid the wall. Bergmeister just provided the pivot that turned the Corvette to the right.
    The Porsche then touches his brakes to avoid the Corvette as it crosses in front of the 45 car. The porsche just got out of the way and let the Corvette continue across the track and unfortunately into the wall. Thankfully Jan was ok because the hit was not a dead straight hit but rather a glancing blow to the wall.

    Now to turn 11, the last turn. Jan is a hard racer. He saw that he was not going to be able to pass him cleanly so he released his brakes and actually accelerated into the Porsche with the intention of spinning him.

    The contact only wiggled the Porsche enough to cause a drag race against the pit wall. "A wall that has a curve in it that protrudes toward the track side.

    Once they were an inch away from the wall and an inch away from each other, there was no other outcome that could be had without the Corvette or Porsche giving up and lifting. And this was a high contact sport for some laps.
    And to ask the porsche to lift and hand over the just after the Porsche got tagged intentionally and cleaqrly smashed in the rear by Jan, would be asking a racer too much.

    So that is the way I see it. The Corvette drivers are getting a reputation as the "dirty" drivers in the series. When Johnny O pushed the Porsche into the gravel earlier, it was considered a good thing by the team. "Rah rah rah, good job" is what came over their radio.


    So there you have it. You reap what you sow and if you rough drive too much, this kind of thing WILl happen more often.

    Oh, and during the race, we lost a few laps for a couple of reasons, and bad calls on our part but while we were on track, our #28 car was hit in the door by the #3 car really hard in turn 9, while trying to let them by. and again in turn 2, they drove across my right front splitter and bumper. Weird!

    Thanks

    Lou Gigliotti

     

     


    Re: There's dirty driving and there's this

    Spyderidol:

    This is what Lou Gigliotti had to say about this:

    "Hi Guys,

    First let me say that Jan is the only driver on the Chevy team that came to congratulate us last race for out qualifying the Factory team. He is a class act.

    He is also one tough driver .

    First incident in pit out lane: the rule is there because there are always cars coming out of the pits and they have to travel around past turn 2 to enter the track. So driving 4 wheels into that lane is just asking for trouble. If there was a car coming out of the pits then, it would have been really bad for them.

    Let me also say that in practice (yes practice) there was only one car that constantly hit us (yes hit us) or shoved our corvette into the dirt and they were the Corvette factory cars. Even when we were waiving them by, they would brush us or squeeze us. even at Atlanta, on the long straight as we were passing them they squeezed our driver (on video) against the grass for some reason.
    I can only assume that the drivers were "Instructed" to intimidate us so we might be off our game and not repeat the Atlanta qualifying scenario.

    No other cars on the track do that. Not to us and not to the others. Just the factory Corvette team. (must be the foreigners)

    At any rate, at Laguna, which is Government owned, they did not want to move the inside pit wall toward the paddock to widen the exit of the pits to make room for the flagger's stand at start finish. So they pushed the pit wall toward the track side. so the pit wall curves toward the track side. If you look at the video, you will see that if you run within inches of the pit wall and stay totally straight on your steering, you WILL hit the part of the wall that is pushed toward the track side.

    This is a common crash at Laguna. It would not require the 45 car to do anything for this crash to happen.

    If you look at the video, you will see that Jan sees the wall coming and he turns to the right to avoid the wall. Bergmeister just provided the pivot that turned the Corvette to the right.
    The Porsche then touches his brakes to avoid the Corvette as it crosses in front of the 45 car. The porsche just got out of the way and let the Corvette continue across the track and unfortunately into the wall. Thankfully Jan was ok because the hit was not a dead straight hit but rather a glancing blow to the wall.

    Now to turn 11, the last turn. Jan is a hard racer. He saw that he was not going to be able to pass him cleanly so he released his brakes and actually accelerated into the Porsche with the intention of spinning him.

    The contact only wiggled the Porsche enough to cause a drag race against the pit wall. "A wall that has a curve in it that protrudes toward the track side.

    Once they were an inch away from the wall and an inch away from each other, there was no other outcome that could be had without the Corvette or Porsche giving up and lifting. And this was a high contact sport for some laps.
    And to ask the porsche to lift and hand over the just after the Porsche got tagged intentionally and cleaqrly smashed in the rear by Jan, would be asking a racer too much.

    So that is the way I see it. The Corvette drivers are getting a reputation as the "dirty" drivers in the series. When Johnny O pushed the Porsche into the gravel earlier, it was considered a good thing by the team. "Rah rah rah, good job" is what came over their radio.


    So there you have it. You reap what you sow and if you rough drive too much, this kind of thing WILl happen more often.

    Oh, and during the race, we lost a few laps for a couple of reasons, and bad calls on our part but while we were on track, our #28 car was hit in the door by the #3 car really hard in turn 9, while trying to let them by. and again in turn 2, they drove across my right front splitter and bumper. Weird!

    Thanks

    Lou Gigliotti

     

     

    It is sometimes good to know the background to a situation before making a judgement call.


    --

    fritz


    Re: There's dirty driving and there's this

    fritz:

    It is sometimes good to know the background to a situation before making a judgement call.


    Smiley @ spyderidol: thank you for posting the very interesting statement from Gigliotti. I knew before who are the good guys and who are the bad ones Smiley

    BTW in the most recent VLN race there was a quite similar incident in the last corner before the finish line (Marc Basseng vs. Marcel Tiemann).

    Quite interesting read from Marcel's website:

    "When I was driving down the Döttinger Höhe Olaf told me Basseng comes for his Pit Stop. Now I was nervous if my laptimes where fast enough to pass him before he comes again out on the track…………Done!, I was in front with a lead of a view seconds and 3 Laps to go.

    He could gain back some time but was never close enough to pass me.

    Now in the last lap , there was one more yellow and I guess he could close the gap a bit more but still nothing to worry about.

    When I came out of Galgenkopf I could see that my advantage is enough to keep the 2nd place.

    He never had a chance to attack me but I saw he is coming closer because of the higher topspeed of the Audi. Once you are passing the Tiergarten there is no way to overtake anymore, except he would have been already next to me. But that was not the case.

    WHAT HAPPENED THAN:

    While I was already driving the downhill left, this lunatic tried to overtake me on the inside. There was never ever a chance to pass me but I guess he has an ego problem, tried to proof everybody what kind of good driver he is and messed it up completely.

    There was NO ROOM for him next to me, he touched me at the back left at approx. 275 km/h!!!

    My car was immediately oversteering, I drove into the left grass before the compression still struggling to catch the car. My first thought was, if I loose the car or start to roll at that speed, I am dead….. Next thing was that I jumped over the track onto the right grass still not sure if I am able to control the car. By luck, I came back to the track before Hohenrain, the last left, right, left before the start and finish line.

    Even after I came back on the track in one piece, he still pushed and tried to pass me!!! He didn’t understand what just happened or how this could have ended…..

    In 17 years of racing all kinds of cars and tracks, I was never that scared….

    Maybe now some will understand why I was out of control in the Parc ferme and behaved the way I did. Other racing people told me, they would not have been as controlled as I was with Basseng than!

    Even if there was a chance, what wasn’t the case, you never try to overtake there. Thats the same for the Fuchsröhre or Schwedenkreuz and other spots on the Nordschleife. You have to be side by side BEFORE the Tiergarten Brücke, otherwise you lost the battle and have to stick back or try later.

    These places are too dangerous for passing and it could end up in massive shunts, injuries or even worth.Most of you maybe remember the deadly accidents in Schwedenkreuz and  Tiergarten (Ulli Richter) a view year ago.

    What Marc Basseng has done there is unacceptable, irresponsible  and he was risking his and my life.

    I haven’t talked to anyone who is not agreeing…

    This, I never want to experience again and I don’t wish that somebody will be in such a situation ever…..

    Now I am looking forward to the next VLN race on the 17th.

    The  Nordschleife is magic and has always been good to me.. ;-) "

    Must try to find Marc's version Smiley


    --
    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black

    Re: There's dirty driving and there's this

    It was very nice to hear Lou's account of what happened. I don't see any reason for him to side with the Flying Lizard team other than to tell the truth. If anything, he would want to have a good relationship with the factory vette team. Being that this is primarily a Porsche site it's nice to hear from someone outside the camp. I think this just goes to show that many drivers and teams are frustrated with the way the factory Corvette team conduct themselves.

    I for one was very excited to see Corvette come to GT2 because it would make everyone up their game. To say that they are a competent team is an understatement. Bringing the "American mentality" to racing doesn't involve risky driving approaches. A little "love tap" or bump may be viewed as just good racing in Nascar. But this is far and away a different kind of sport.

    If it were a Porsche team that was going about pushing people off track and putting drivers in a dangerous situation I would be against them. This has nothing to do with loyalty, rather a good moral compass.


    Re: There's dirty driving and there's this

    Guys the Corvette guy totally started it by playing dirty. he was way too far off and just ran into the GT3. Also i dont see how the GT3 even caused the crash because the c guy lost it when they werent even touching. The P driver was doing his job defending his line... This is the result of aggressive driving nothing more.


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 
    _____________________________________________________________________
    1986 BMW 325e 5spd 2.7L 121 hp (172 lb·ft) Le Mans Blau on Tan leather.
    1986 BMW 325is 5spd 2.5L 168 hp (164 lb-ft) White on Tan leather (parted out) 
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    1986 Porsche 944, 5spd 2.5L 150 hp (168lb-ft) champagne gold on grown leather. (sold)


    Re: There's dirty driving and there's this

    If what the Porsche guy did was right then I'm afraid that we will see a lot of Porsches kissing the walls next year (and Bergmeister won't have the right to whine like a crying baby like he did after the ending of the 12 h of Sebring of 2007), because what goes around comes around....

    And by the way, I find extremely funny the comparison between giving a little tap in the rear (that we don't know if it wasn't provoked by the Porsche guy lifting) and forcing a competitor to the wall.

     


    Re: There's dirty driving and there's this

     

     

    Ridiculous!

     

    Re: There's dirty driving and there's this

    Anyone who has driven here would know that last turn at Laguna Seca, especially after 12 hours of racing is not the kind of place that little tapping can be morally or ethically accepted.

    The Vette more than deserves the outcome.  Smiley


    Re: There's dirty driving and there's this

    At 1/4 speed, I thought I saw the Porsche actualy tap the brakes at the acceleration point (usually done to 'throw off' the momentum of the person behind you).  That's what acording to me made it look like the Corvette was trying to rear-end the Porsche.

    But what happened after that was SHAMEFUL.  We may feel  like doing such things to some road hogs, but it is totally wrong in my book to take such action.  It's like saying, "he was teasing me for very long so I killed him".   

    Anyone know what actions / words/ took place after the incident?  I would have expected some big fight!


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