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    Re: Short 997 GT3 Information Summary

    Straight line acceleration faster than a Turbo - WOW!
    Now I know that PDK has a lot to do with the acceleration times, but I guess there must be a slight bump in power to achieve better results.
    Now the RS is mentioned to have LSD, does that confirm that its missing on the GT3?
    Now I know many enthisiasts were waiting on the PDK, and some were dissapointed that it wasn't offered on the Turbo, but don't you guys think it doesn't belong on a car like the GT3 RS - I know its much faster than any sequential out there, and less jerkier too, but at the end of the day its an automatic. I'm very confused.

    Re: Short 997 GT3 Information Summary

    LSD is standard on 997 GT3.

    Re: Short 997 GT3 Information Summary

    PDK won't be an automatic, but it will be activated by an electro-mechanical paddle shift mechanism.

    BMW have been using their electro-mechanical manual gearbox (SMG) for many years and it's excellent on track. BMW will be launching at the Geneva Show in 2 weeks time their replacement for SMG which will be called ZSG, which means (Zentral Synchron Getrieb = Centrally synchronized Gearbox/drivetrain). Unlike Audis DSG system which uses two clutches, this new ZSG system has only one clutch with a central shaft always 'in drive', to make shifting smoother and quicker.

    Since Porsche invented the DSG technology, I would expect their first production system of this to be pretty special.

    Re: Short 997 GT3 Information Summary

    With a wide body and more weight how could the GT3rs be faster?
    To me sounds like a waste unless there is more HP.

    Re: Short 997 GT3 Information Summary

    Quote:
    Ferdie said:


    The GT3 is so far the best current Porsche I would wholeheartedly consider buying.

    I have no issue with the extended list of options which is available for this car so far, it just makes the car more liveable in everyday situations. On the other hand its position within the model range and especially the more solid machinery would it make it ideal to keep for a few years!



    I could not have said it better
    For all you guys waiting for the PDK - I am sure it will be kick ass but it will not replace the traditionl grear shift/clutch combo and the joy and challenge of getting it right

    Now I only need to decide the final spec and get a delivery date

    TPM any good?

    BTW how useful is the tire pressure monitoring system? Accurate enough for the track?
    Heavy?

    Re: TPM any good?

    Quote:
    TEE1 said:
    BTW how useful is the tire pressure monitoring system? Accurate enough for the track?
    Heavy?



    It'll only be useful if you have a "non-instantaneous" tire pressure loss, which is still good enough for me.

    It's "accurate" enough to be able to watch your pressures increase as tires warm up after a cold start. (0.1 bar increments).

    Don't know how you'd ever be aware of the extra weight (which is measured in grams not kilos anyway).

    After experiencing using it, I would not voluntarily be without it.

    Re: Short 997 GT3 Information Summary

    Quote:
    RR4 said:
    With a wide body and more weight how could the GT3rs be faster?
    To me sounds like a waste unless there is more HP.


    I think you misunderstood. RC said the RS will weigh 50-70kg less than the GT3...

    Re: Short 997 GT3 Information Summary

    Quote:
    SteveD said:
    PDK won't be an automatic, but it will be activated by an electro-mechanical paddle shift mechanism.

    BMW have been using their electro-mechanical manual gearbox (SMG) for many years and it's excellent on track. BMW will be launching at the Geneva Show in 2 weeks time their replacement for SMG which will be called ZSG, which means (Zentral Synchron Getrieb = Centrally synchronized Gearbox/drivetrain). Unlike Audis DSG system which uses two clutches, this new ZSG system has only one clutch with a central shaft always 'in drive', to make shifting smoother and quicker.

    Since Porsche invented the DSG technology, I would expect their first production system of this to be pretty special.



    just as a precisation: PDK obviously is not an automatic, but has a mode where it works like an automatic, which is very handy in traffic at least, even for a gt3. i'd even go so far to believe that a gt3 with pdk would be used in automodus 50% of the time. it just works too brilliantly
    The ZSG should also come from Borg Warner, prototypes fot rwd transaxle cars exist there...

    Re: Short 997 GT3 Information Summary

    Quote:
    turbolite said:
    Quote:
    SteveD said:
    PDK won't be an automatic, but it will be activated by an electro-mechanical paddle shift mechanism.

    BMW have been using their electro-mechanical manual gearbox (SMG) for many years and it's excellent on track. BMW will be launching at the Geneva Show in 2 weeks time their replacement for SMG which will be called ZSG, which means (Zentral Synchron Getrieb = Centrally synchronized Gearbox/drivetrain). Unlike Audis DSG system which uses two clutches, this new ZSG system has only one clutch with a central shaft always 'in drive', to make shifting smoother and quicker.

    Since Porsche invented the DSG technology, I would expect their first production system of this to be pretty special.



    just as a precisation: PDK obviously is not an automatic, but has a mode where it works like an automatic, which is very handy in traffic at least, even for a gt3. i'd even go so far to believe that a gt3 with pdk would be used in automodus 50% of the time. it just works too brilliantly
    The ZSG should also come from Borg Warner, prototypes fot rwd transaxle cars exist there...



    I currenly own a Golf GTi with DSG gearbox, which is very similar to the Porsche PDK. There are no power interruption during upshift, much smoother than any torque converter automatic, downshift and upshift is much quicker than the SMG or F1. BMW and Ferrari needs to come up with a dual clutch soon if they want to stay competitve in the market. It is really THAT good.

    The only draw back of the DSG is that you can't downshift from 5 to 2nd with one blip, since one of the gear is pre-selected already on one side of the shaft. It needs to go from 5-4-3-2 instead of 5-2 in the SMG with one shift. In that sense, the downshift from 5 to 2 might be tad slower.

    IMO, Direct Fuel Injection and Dual Clutch Transmission will be the future of automobile.

    Re: Short 997 GT3 Information Summary

    It will be very interesting to see how Porsche's PDK system works in practice. Feel is just as important as speed, and in the continuum between a straight auto and straight manual, Audi's DSG system is too close to an Auto (obviously without the torque convertor).

    The advantage of BMW's SMG system is that you can still 'feel' the gears engaging and there is skill involved in executing a quick change. You can also heel-and-toe when you change down in SMG, so the skill of matching gears to engine speed is preserved. Audis DSG system seems better suited to the urban family car, making gear changing easy and unobtrusive. That's not what you want in a Porsche or an M type BMW. Yes, you want quick changes but ideally there should still be some sense of control left with the driver. As sense of purpose when a change is executed correctly.

    Porsche's challenge with PDK and BMW with their new ZSG system will be to preserve the key virtues of good semi-manual systems such as BMW's SMG or Ferarri's F1 box, whilst providing speed and more smoothness.

    Re: Short 997 GT3 Information Summary

    William,
    How does the BMW SMG or Ferrari F1 gearboxes shift down from 5th to 2nd gear directly?
    I thought you could only go up or down the gears in increment of 1?
    Also, an interesting fact and problem about F1 style gearboxes is they maintenance costs.
    They need to be replaced more often than conventionnal boxes and cost more.
    And more, for example with the BMW SMG2, the box if so violent set up on the sportiest mode that the rear axle needs to be replaced every 20000 km if the car is driven hard!
    Mind you, that's why you can select the different F1 shifting modes but beware.

    Re: Short 997 GT3 Information Summary

    The highest mode in SMGII is a waste of time, most people drive in S5 which changes gear just as fast as S6, without the violence. Driven in this way, there's no greater wear and tear than a manual box, infact probably less. Ferraris F1 system is shockingly fragile by comparison, but then it's italian and not designed to cover huge mileages.

    In SMG, provided the road speed is not too high for the gear you select you can tap the paddles 2 or 3 times and it will go from 5th to 2nd, selecting each gear sequentially (but very quickly) without leaving the driver waiting. BMW built it's fastest SMG system for the M3 CSL which is much better than the system fitted to an M3.

    Re: Short 997 GT3 Information Summary

    Will the PDK be paddle shift, or a stick shift like the RSR's?

    Re: Short 997 GT3 Information Summary

    In my experience if it's going to be a paddle shift manual then it 'also' needs to have a stick shift. When turning out of junctions or other tight steering situations it's just not very convenient to have to change gear using paddles. Ferrari/Maserati/Lamborghini manage with just paddles but I always feel they're a little clumsy if you're used to having both.

    I'd be a little surprised if PDK came solely with a stick shift - one of the advantages of paddle shift controls is not needing to take your hands off the wheel when changing, which makes it much easier to brake late into a corner. Particularly useful keeping the car pointed in a straight line when accelerating hard, something that would prove useful on the 996 GT3RS which can be a bit of road camber magnet.

    Re: Short 997 GT3 Information Summary

    Sorry for delay. In Germany visitng a dealer here

    I haven't ordered yet but my UK dealer can't order it properly until 28th Feb and the release date is 26th August in UK. I will go to Geneva have a damn good look, find out what I can and then decide whether GT3 is the car for me. My German dealer here in Frankfurt is expecting lots of infor in a week's time. He was very surprised about PASM having seen the car 2 weeks ago in Stuttgart. Perhaps there is still room for a surprise....

    Re: Short 997 GT3 Information Summary

    Quote:
    john999s said:
    Sorry for delay. In Germany visitng a dealer here

    I haven't ordered yet but my UK dealer can't order it properly until 28th Feb and the release date is 26th August in UK. I will go to Geneva have a damn good look, find out what I can and then decide whether GT3 is the car for me. My German dealer here in Frankfurt is expecting lots of infor in a week's time. He was very surprised about PASM having seen the car 2 weeks ago in Stuttgart. Perhaps there is still room for a surprise....



    who is your dealer in Germany?

    Re: Short 997 GT3 Information Summary

    Quote:
    SteveD said:

    It will be very interesting to see how Porsche's PDK system works in practice. Feel is just as important as speed, and in the continuum between a straight auto and straight manual, Audi's DSG system is too close to an Auto (obviously without the torque convertor).

    The advantage of BMW's SMG system is that you can still 'feel' the gears engaging and there is skill involved in executing a quick change. You can also heel-and-toe when you change down in SMG, so the skill of matching gears to engine speed is preserved. Audis DSG system seems better suited to the urban family car, making gear changing easy and unobtrusive. That's not what you want in a Porsche or an M type BMW. Yes, you want quick changes but ideally there should still be some sense of control left with the driver. As sense of purpose when a change is executed correctly.

    Porsche's challenge with PDK and BMW with their new ZSG system will be to preserve the key virtues of good semi-manual systems such as BMW's SMG or Ferarri's F1 box, whilst providing speed and more smoothness.



    Definitely, it will be very interesting to see if Porsche are able to add more "shifting feel" to the PDK. It is true that the dual clutch transmission tends to be less rewarding to use because it is so precise and quick. There are no need to make any adjustment to excute a perfect shift.

    The arugment now is, which element is more important for a transmission in a sport car, shifting 'feel' or precision. The SMG or F1 type are imperfect, jerky, not enough blips to downshift smoothly but provide a better 'feel' when shifting. Which will be a better system for a sport cars?

    I personally own 2 cars with SMG type transmission and 1 car with DSG. For me, I would choose a DSG over a SMG. It is a more advanced system and does its job better than the SMG. I am really looking forward to see the PDK from Porsche.

    Re: Short 997 GT3 Information Summary

    Fanch,

    To downshift from 5 to 2nd directly, you just need to press
    the downshift paddle quickly 3 times.

    There was a software glitch in the M5's SMG, when I downshift from 5 to 2nd while the engine speed was too high. It will hit the limiter and the engine will shut off. After they updated the software. It detuned the blipping to less aggressive. Not enough blip means it will cause engine braking. Now I have to manually add more throttle to ensure a smoother downshift.

    Re: Short 997 GT3 Information Summary

    unfortunally someone cancelled the Autocarrera price list in pdf .
    if u like to configure your Gt3 you can download it here : http://www.997gt3.com/pics1.htm

    Re: Short 997 GT3 Information Summary

    bravo Sergini!!

    Re: Short 997 GT3 Information Summary

    Thanks Sergini!

    Re: Short 997 GT3 Information Summary

    Apparently someone at P. marketing is reading this forum very extensively!
    Good thing that I downloaded that price list on time...

    Re: Short 997 GT3 Information Summary

    Definately the most desirable 997 I saw so far...

     
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