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    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    RC:
    Porker:

    It's on Cup 2 R's, a tire on the verge of absurd on a GT3 RS, let alone on an electric sedan. mail

    Most people don't even know what a Cup 2 tire is, let alone a Cup 2 R. Smiley

    Numbers count, not details. Sad but true. We all know that Tesla is cheating but the majority of people will only see the headline and Elon Musk knows that. He needs the headline in social media, he needs Porsche to be ridiculed for losing against Tesla. It is a pretty good marketing stunt for Tesla and Musk and nobody will really care about details. 

    ... and certainly has been prepared for quite some time. Some (myself included) have underestimated Tesla it seems


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    IMO those who don't see the details, also don't care about NBR times.

    Those who can appreciate a Ring-time will know that the comparison is between a production-spec Taycan and a heavily modified Tesla which is unavailable to customers. For the rest of potential EV buyers Nordschleife is just a strange sounding name and difficult to pronounce smiley

    However, the S on NBR has 7 seats ( I think) instead of 5 and this will grant Tesla a record nevertheless.


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    schmoell:
    RC:
    Porker:

    It's on Cup 2 R's, a tire on the verge of absurd on a GT3 RS, let alone on an electric sedan. mail

    Most people don't even know what a Cup 2 tire is, let alone a Cup 2 R. Smiley

    Numbers count, not details. Sad but true. We all know that Tesla is cheating but the majority of people will only see the headline and Elon Musk knows that. He needs the headline in social media, he needs Porsche to be ridiculed for losing against Tesla. It is a pretty good marketing stunt for Tesla and Musk and nobody will really care about details. 

    ... and certainly has been prepared for quite some time. Some have underestimated Tesla it seems 

    I would never underestimate Elon Musk and I said it before that this guy doesn't give up. It just isn't his style and I also highly doubt that he is a junkie as some in the press wanted him to look like, just because he played along in an interview. Elon Musk is a great actor as well, he played in many movies, some people tend to forget. Smiley Smiley

    Porsche needs to be on the offensive now, they cannot wait to react to a finalized Tesla record run.

    Also, I would do something funny to beat Tesla on their own game, social media loves funny but I'm afraid Tesla will beat the record, Porsche will react in a German way, explaining how Tesla actually "cheated" and this will change NOTHING. On the contrary, social media will ridicule Porsche even further for being a bad loser. Smiley

    You got to love the internet... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    reginos:

    IMO those who don't see the details, also don't care about NBR times.

    Those who can appreciate a Ring-time will know that the comparison is between a production-spec Taycan and a heavily modified Tesla which is unavailable to customers. For the rest of potential EV buyers Nordschleife is just a strange sounding name and difficult to pronounce smiley

    However, the S on NBR has 7 seats ( I think) instead of 5 and this will grant Tesla a record nevertheless.

    You are wrong. This is all about headlines. Most people in the US don't even know what the Nordschleife is. Smiley (no offense, my wife and my mother don't have a clue either what the Nordschleife is). The typical Taycan buyer doesn't have a clue what the Nordschleife is, they will just see the headlines, like many people else.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    RC:
    reginos:

    IMO those who don't see the details, also don't care about NBR times.

    Those who can appreciate a Ring-time will know that the comparison is between a production-spec Taycan and a heavily modified Tesla which is unavailable to customers. For the rest of potential EV buyers Nordschleife is just a strange sounding name and difficult to pronounce smiley

    However, the S on NBR has 7 seats ( I think) instead of 5 and this will grant Tesla a record nevertheless.

    You are wrong. This is all about headlines. Most people in the US don't even know what the Nordschleife is. Smiley (no offense, my wife and my mother don't have a clue either what the Nordschleife is). The typical Taycan buyer doesn't have a clue what the Nordschleife is, they will just see the headlines, like many people else.

    Exactly, 99% of people don't know the Ring and cannot appreciate the laptime differentials. These things are relevant only to petrolheads, and EV people by definition are not in that category.

    For EVs the relevant factors are range, charging times, costs, space etc.

    Porsche did the NBR time to form a connection between their "normal" cars and their first EV. IMO it was an answer to a question no one asked i.e. a totally irrelevant exercise.

     


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    reginos:

    IMO those who don't see the details, also don't care about NBR times.

    Those who can appreciate a Ring-time will know that the comparison is between a production-spec Taycan and a heavily modified Tesla which is unavailable to customers. For the rest of potential EV buyers Nordschleife is just a strange sounding name and difficult to pronounce smiley

    However, the S on NBR has 7 seats ( I think) instead of 5 and this will grant Tesla a record nevertheless.

    Couple of things to keep in mind...
    - The Taycan has no customer deliveries as of yet. First deliveries in a few months
    - The Taycan ring record car was also a "Prototype". At least according to Porsche
    - The Taycan ring record was officially announced 2 weeks before the reveal of the Taycan
    - Tesla will probably reveal a production version shortly after an eventual ring time record. An updated 3-motor drivetrain, carbon ceramic brakes and some new aero kit.
    - Tesla are not known for announcing things ahead of time when it comes to change. They just implement it in the silent and when the cars are already in production, they announce it to the public. Just to avoid the Osborne effect as much as possible. The Raven drive train updates that is in Model S/X since May this year was managed exactly like this.

    Different approaches, but I just can't see why some in here saying that the Taycan is a production car and the Tesla is a prototype?

    There are zero Taycan Turbo S in hands of customers and there are zero Model S Plaid in hands of customers. Like I wrote in a previous post, Porsche is just ahead of Tesla when it comes to timeline. What we witness Tesla doing right now is what we have seen the Taycan doing the last couple of months on the ring.

    Rumor also says that the Model S will come with an interior and exterior refresh next year. But Tesla of course deny all this because of the Osborn effect once again... It will come, be sure of that. They're testing this Plaid drivetrain on the ring right now disguised in the current "shell".

    On a second notice, I recently had a test drive in a Model S with the Raven drivetrain/suspension that are in all S/X since may this year. The difference is actually night and day. Even if the actual design is not updated, the car felt much more refined and silent and when in sport suspension mode it is much more planted and a massive improvement when it comes to taking corners. The Raven drivetrain also improve top speed performance quite substatial. The "kick" after 130km/h is really a big improvement compared to the old P100DL.


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    The Taycan on the NBR was in the announced production-spec although no cars have been delivered yet. The Tesla is a pure prototype. There is a difference IMO.

    BTW I've heard that Porsche are having numerous teething problems with the Taycan, so many that large dealers in Germany are refusing to commit to stocks before such issues are resolved

    The release date could be possibly postponed

    Does RC know something?


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    reginos:

    The Taycan on the NBR was in the announced production-spec although no cars have been delivered yet. The Tesla is a pure prototype. There is a difference IMO.

    BTW I've heard that Porsche are having numerous teething problems with the Taycan, so many that large dealers in Germany are refusing to commit to stocks before such issues are resolved

    The release date could be possibly postponed

    Does RC know something?

    There are issues of some sort but I haven't given any details yet (probably because I never asked but I will).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    reginos:

    The Taycan on the NBR was in the announced production-spec although no cars have been delivered yet. The Tesla is a pure prototype. There is a difference IMO.

    When Porsche revealed the NBR time, that was prior to the official launch of the Taycan so there were no production spec. The video that Porsche published on their YT-channel also clearly says "Taycan prototype"

    If Tesla make a time attack on the ring within the coming week or so, then they can reveal the production spec mid October for the car and make it possible to pre-order that setup. If they do, they follow the same path that Porsche did with the Taycan ring time and official reveal and opening of order books afterwards.

    We'll see how things play out the coming weeks Smiley


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    lukestern:
    reginos:

    The Taycan on the NBR was in the announced production-spec although no cars have been delivered yet. The Tesla is a pure prototype. There is a difference IMO.

    When Porsche revealed the NBR time, that was prior to the official launch of the Taycan so there were no production spec. The video that Porsche published on their YT-channel also clearly says "Taycan prototype"

    If Tesla make a time attack on the ring within the coming week or so, then they can reveal the production spec mid October for the car and make it possible to pre-order that setup. If they do, they follow the same path that Porsche did with the Taycan ring time and official reveal and opening of order books afterwards.

    We'll see how things play out the coming weeks Smiley

    I wonder if Porsche could improve on the announced spec if Tesla come up with a super time. I wouldn't think that this is technically feasible.


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    RC:
    reginos:

    The Taycan on the NBR was in the announced production-spec although no cars have been delivered yet. The Tesla is a pure prototype. There is a difference IMO.

    BTW I've heard that Porsche are having numerous teething problems with the Taycan, so many that large dealers in Germany are refusing to commit to stocks before such issues are resolved

    The release date could be possibly postponed

    Does RC know something?

    There are issues of some sort but I haven't given any details yet (probably because I never asked but I will).

    Please do.


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    lukestern:


    Different approaches, but I just can't see why some in here saying that the Taycan is a production car and the Tesla is a prototype?
     

    It is not that you can't see it, it is more that you don't want to see it because its very simple and straight forward. Do you think that that production version of the Model S that lapped the ring is going to come with Cup2R to customers for example? 

    The Taycan may have not been an actual production version, but it was a production spec Taycan presetnted 2 weeks later, which is how NBR lap times are performed, including using the same tires and everything else customer cars come with, that is the whole point of NBR lap times.

    This Model S won't be anything like the final production version (tires for example, battery/engine tuning and god knows what else) that is more than a year away... it is a mule with everything but the kitchen sink modified to do a publicity stunt at the NBR for those that are so clueless that can't tell the difference, mostly cool aid drinking Teslarites... but if you grab a real production Model S and lap it around NBR see what happens in reality.


    --

     

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    If Porsche would have a sense of humor the answer to this ridiculous GT3 spec Tesla with carbon ceramic breaks etc. could be very simple:  Take the 919 evo and paint it white and put a Taycan turbo S+ badge on it and say this Taycan did the NBR in 5:19 indecision


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Carlos from Spain:

    This Model S won't be anything like the final production version (tires for example, battery/engine tuning and god knows what else) that is more than a year away... it is a mule with everything but the kitchen sink modified to do a publicity stunt at the NBR for those that are so clueless that can't tell the difference, mostly cool aid drinking Teslarites... but if you grab a real production Model S and lap it around NBR see what happens in reality.

    And what do you know about that? Smiley

    The tires is the only thing that can be discussed and that's up to the manufacturer to choose. I mean, Porsche is using Cup tires for their GT-cars and the NBR records so why are not Tesla allowed to do that. They might sell the car with that option and normal road tires for those who desire that. Right?

    And what is the definition of "normal" Model S? An old Model S that has been in production since 2013? It's new times now and Tesla update their products and will release them to the public in due course, probably next year, which is the same year Taycan will start to be delivered in volumes. 2020 Tesla should be compared with 2020 Taycan and not the old Teslas that has been on the streets for almost 7 years... Heck, even the Raven Model S (in production since earlier this year) is a completely different beast than the 2018 Model S P100D

    Honest question. Why must you exaggerate and write "cool aid drinking" and such as Teslarites every time? It just doesn't add very much to the discussion.


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    lukestern:
    Carlos from Spain:

    This Model S won't be anything like the final production version (tires for example, battery/engine tuning and god knows what else) that is more than a year away... it is a mule with everything but the kitchen sink modified to do a publicity stunt at the NBR for those that are so clueless that can't tell the difference, mostly cool aid drinking Teslarites... but if you grab a real production Model S and lap it around NBR see what happens in reality.

    And what do you know about that?

    Just the fact that they are using semi-slick tires on a 7 seater american sedan says more than enough unless you don't want to see it. And the tires is just the part on the outside we can see...

    The tires is the only thing that can be discussed and that's up to the manufacturer to choose. I mean, Porsche is using Cup tires for their GT-cars and the NBR records so why are not Tesla allowed to do that. They might sell the car with that option and normal road tires for those who desire that. Right?

    Using semi-slicks on track oriented GT3RS/2RS is not the same as putting them in a 7 seater american sedanSmiley ... do you really not see a difference here? Smiley

    And what is the definition of "normal" Model S? An old Model S that has been in production since 2013?

    Yes, only versions that customers can actually buy, again, that is the point of NBR lap times. Mules of supposed future versions tuned for a PR stunt at a track, no.

    It's new times now and Tesla update their products and will release them to the public in due course, probably next year, which is the same year Taycan will start to be delivered in volumes. 2020 Tesla should be compared with 2020 Taycan and not the old Teslas that has been on the streets for almost 7 years... Heck, even the Raven Model S (in production since earlier this year) is a completely different beast than the 2018 Model S P100D.

    Then, when they come out with version, they can do a lap time in production spec at the time, just like everybody else, and nobody will have a problem with it as long as it is production spec.

    Honest question. Why must you exaggerate and write "cool aid drinking" and such as Teslarites every time? It just doesn't add very much to the discussion.

    Because it is not an exaggeration... they are like vegans or creationists...


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    haudimal:

    If Porsche would have a sense of humor the answer to this ridiculous GT3 spec Tesla with carbon ceramic breaks etc. could be very simple:  Take the 919 evo and paint it white and put a Taycan turbo S+ badge on it and say this Taycan did the NBR in 5:19 indecision

    Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Carlos from Spain:
    lukestern:
    Carlos from Spain:

    This Model S won't be anything like the final production version (tires for example, battery/engine tuning and god knows what else) that is more than a year away... it is a mule with everything but the kitchen sink modified to do a publicity stunt at the NBR for those that are so clueless that can't tell the difference, mostly cool aid drinking Teslarites... but if you grab a real production Model S and lap it around NBR see what happens in reality.

    And what do you know about that?

    Just the fact that they are using semi-slick tires on a 7 seater american sedan says more than enough unless you don't want to see it. And the tires is just the part on the outside we can see...

    The whole 7-seat thing is of course a PR trick. I think you just happen to underestimate the rapid improvements that Tesla does. 

    The tires is the only thing that can be discussed and that's up to the manufacturer to choose. I mean, Porsche is using Cup tires for their GT-cars and the NBR records so why are not Tesla allowed to do that. They might sell the car with that option and normal road tires for those who desire that. Right?

    Using semi-slicks on track oriented GT3RS/2RS is not the same as putting them in a 7 seater american sedanSmiley ... do you really not see a difference here? Smiley

    I actually think it is pretty cool that they put the cup tires on this sedan. I'm also pretty sure that it won't be directly slow with street tires either, for a 7-seater Smiley

    And what is the definition of "normal" Model S? An old Model S that has been in production since 2013?

    Yes, only versions that customers can actually buy, again, that is the point of NBR lap times. Mules of supposed future versions tuned for a PR stunt at a track, no.

    You mean like the Taycan prototype that took the record back in august a few weeks before it was publicly announced in september and customers will get the cars in early 2020?

    Can't you just see that similarity here?

    It's new times now and Tesla update their products and will release them to the public in due course, probably next year, which is the same year Taycan will start to be delivered in volumes. 2020 Tesla should be compared with 2020 Taycan and not the old Teslas that has been on the streets for almost 7 years... Heck, even the Raven Model S (in production since earlier this year) is a completely different beast than the 2018 Model S P100D.

    Then, when they come out with version, they can do a lap time in production spec at the time, just like everybody else, and nobody will have a problem with it as long as it is production spec.

    Maybe this is just what they will do? But they haven't announced the production spec yet, just like Porsche didn't do that either before revealing the 7:42 time.

    Honest question. Why must you exaggerate and write "cool aid drinking" and such as Teslarites every time? It just doesn't add very much to the discussion.

    Because it is not an exaggeration... they are like vegans or creationists...


    It doesn't have to be this polarizing. A discussion is more interesting if we can leave those kind of things out. At least in here it is no need for it because this group of people are not bothered with rennteam anyway.


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Unfortunately I don’t find Blume that impressive. Agree with you RC re the lack of a real leader


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    E70F5DB0-B7D0-4A27-8F6E-9A5C8310163E.jpeg

    Porsche should make an ad and select the 919 EVO with the comment below

    “Elon, if you really want to play (with prototypes) get more serious.”

     

    That is, IF Tesla is really faster.


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    reginos:

    However, the S on NBR has 7 seats ( I think) instead of 5 and this will grant Tesla a record nevertheless.

    How can that car have seven seats?


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Ferdie:
    reginos:

    However, the S on NBR has 7 seats ( I think) instead of 5 and this will grant Tesla a record nevertheless.

    How can that car have seven seats?

    It's just emergency seats for kids or very small adults.
    When not in use the seats can be retracted into that space where the feet are suppose to be while seated. I think Tesla discontinued the option two years ago so the car running on the ring must be an old "shell" on top of that Plaid-drivetrain.

    Not sure why Elon even mentioned that in a tweet and having 7-seat should just add weight. But we should take his tweets with a grain of salt as usual.


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    lukestern:
     

    And what is the definition of "normal" Model S? An old Model S that has been in production since 2013?

    Yes, only versions that customers can actually buy, again, that is the point of NBR lap times. Mules of supposed future versions tuned for a PR stunt at a track, no.

    You mean like the Taycan prototype that took the record back in august a few weeks before it was publicly announced in september and customers will get the cars in early 2020?

    Can't you just see that similarity here?

     

    It is great that Elon has this up his sleeves. it would seems this prototype drivetrain is the basis for the new Speedster, which will be very nice indeed when it comes out eventually.

    It's not like the prototype Model S is a locked down model ready for production, it's still a development car that is still a long way before getting produced, or it may to even bee produced at all, or the production version will be very different than the Ring prototype, no one knows. 

    and here is the one big difference between the Tesla prototype Model S vs the Taycan prototype that set the record. At the time of the record run the Taycan isn't launched yet, they have to use the word 'prototype', but basically it's just a production prototype with all production parts locked in. It is how Porsche have bee doing things for eons. 

    The Tesla fanboys that claimed foul about the record Taycan being not a production car is just like the McLaren fanboys before with the 918's lap, claim this and that and this and that. Pointless. The 'prototype's that ran the records actually weights MORE than the production version with all the data logging equipments and roll cages, even when counting the safer Recaro race buckets that Porsche like to use. And Porsche doesn't need to hide them either, unlike other manufacturers, as Porsche retires those record cars to thee museum and anyone are free to go see them.

    Now if Elon can put this new drivetrain system in a next generation Model S and packaged it with a much nicer interior and much better fitted finish, they can jack the price up of it and fill the giant pricing gap between a Model S and a Taycan Turbo S. That is a untapped market segment for Tesla to capitalized on and gain much need profit. But that gap won't last forever, they got maybe a year, 18 months before it is filled. 


    --

     

     


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    FWIW. There are three things certain in this world. Death, taxes and RT denigrating Ring times that beat their beloved Porsche. Do you realize that for a price of a Taycan, I can buy all the models in the Tesla lineup?

    https://electrek.co/2019/09/17/tesla-plaid-model-s-crushes-porsche-taycan-nurburgring-time/


    --

    Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

     

    They have to be joking...welcome to the Nurburgring


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

     

     


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    It's apparently the P100D+ which is a new three motor iteration. 

    I don't see the difference between Tesla doing a "NBR" spec and Lexus doing one for the RFA etc... At lease Tesla has a sense of humour, something Porsche (and many of its followers) seems to have lost. 

    As for the interior etc, it's no different than Corvette which is fast and cheaper inside and Porsche. There will always be people who care more about it than others.

    And I refuse to buy a Taycan at those prices. Every person I know in Toronto that had a deposit on one (nine guys that are in my circle of friends) is not going to take it. 


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    nberry:

    FWIW. There are three things certain in this world. Death, taxes and RT denigrating Ring times that beat their beloved Porsche. Do you realize that for a price of a Taycan, I can buy all the models in the Tesla lineup?

    https://electrek.co/2019/09/17/tesla-plaid-model-s-crushes-porsche-taycan-nurburgring-time/

     

    Did Elon just do another price cut? 

    A Model X is CAD$170k, + a Model S at CAD$150k, + a Model 3 at CAD$86k, that's CAD$406k unless I calculated wrong.

    About the price I paid for my GT2RS, the loaded Taycan I config earlier only maxed out at CAD$248k. Am I missing something?

    This comparison is like for the price of a high class escort for a night, which the sex part will only last 10 mins, one could have a week worth of 10min hand job in Amsterdam's red light district. Like both with get you off, and the red light district girls will get you off quicker. Heck, they might even break the world record too if there is a lineup outside. Smiley

    Like both cars will get you to somewhere quick, but the experience will be completely different. The one paying more may get a night out at the opera first, a romantic dinner at a fancy restaurant, then champagne and strawberries and chocolate at the hotel room before the main event, while the other one will be munching down a burger while waiting in line and not even get a shower on the way out. 

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Nick do the math.

    Tesla S $81,000

    Tesla X $82,000

    Tesla 3 $36,000

    Total $199,000

    The TTS EV is close to $200,000

    Like I wrote, I could buy three Tesla's with similar performance parameters as the Taycan for the price of one Taycan. kiss

    Nick, you're a good trooper and loyal customer for Porsche. But as you have said several times in the past, when Porsche oversteps you'll call them out. Porsche overstepped price wise with the Taycan. You should call them out on this.

    But its also true that Porsche knows its customers. They price the Taycan to fleece their pocketbooks. It"ll be interesting to see how many of the depositors cough up the $200,000 for the first EV from Porsche.


    --

     

    Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.

     


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    nberry:

    Nick do the math.

    Tesla S $81,000

    Tesla X $82,000

    Tesla 3 $36,000

    Total $199,000

    The TTS EV is close to $200,000

    Like I wrote, I could buy three Tesla's with similar performance parameters as the Taycan for the price of one Taycan. kiss

    Nick, you're a good trooper and loyal customer for Porsche. But as you have said several times in the past, when Porsche oversteps you'll call them out. Porsche overstepped price wise with the Taycan. You should call them out on this.

    But its also true that Porsche knows its customers. They price the Taycan to fleece their pocketbooks. It"ll be interesting to see how many of the depositors cough up the $200,000 for the first EV from Porsche.


    --

     

    Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.

     

     

    You are listing base price Nick. I did the finished configuration price. Smiley

    But seriously, I really do see nothing wrong with Porsche pricing right now. The Taycan is a top tier car with top tier pricing to match. 

    On the other hand, I actually have a problem with Tesla's pricing actually. In case you haven't noticed, their pricing is like daily seafood price, you have no idea when Elon is going to slash, or jack up the price, nor when will he take away supercharging fee or throw them in. as of right now, because of the end of quarter push, Elon is throwing in free supercharging, so those people that bought the car last week are sorry out of luck.

    Anyways, back to how Tesla price their cars. Now up to this point, just before the Taycan is released, all EV cars are city appliances, they are not performance cars and can't live on the track. A Nissan Leaf is half the price of a Model 3. If you leave home and go to the office, which car will get you there quicker? The journey will be of the same amount of time. So why is the Tesla costing twice as much? Now if the Tesla has a higher quality interior than the Nissan, which it does not, then those extras can justify the higher price. In city usage, a Taycan would also get you to the office using the same amount of time. Now it is higher price of course, but you are surrounded by excellent interior and being pampered on your journey to the office. And the badge on the hood gives you confidence, you know the car won't break down, so a part of the purchase price is also for your peace of mind that your car will work.

    Now also imagine you are doing the trip in a Rolls Royce Ghost, the journey still takes the same amount of time, but you are being pampered even more, and the craftsmanship is on another level up. Would you complaint the Ghost is over priced also?

     


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    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Nick, had Porsche indicated early in the development of the Taycan that the market segment they were targeting was substantially over $100,000 (not give a price) how many deposits do you think they would have received? FWIW, I'm not the only one who thought they were targeting the Tesla segment and Porsche never indicated otherwise. Classic bait and switch.cool


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    Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.


     
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