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    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Civil suits can take years and damages awarded can vary. a jury in Alabama awarded a man 2 million dollars because BMW sold him a car with a paint job that concealed  prior damage. That eventually was reduced , but one clever lawyer soaping up a jury about Hitler, VW and TDI engines being used to harm the american public might  get a jury to really put the knife into VW.


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    I'm not sure this has been posted yet, but here is confirmation of Muller  as CEO of VAG

    http://newsroom.porsche.com/en/company/matthias-mueller-porsche-volkswagen-ceo-11435.html

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    JimFlat6:

    Civil suits can take years and damages awarded can vary. a jury in Alabama awarded a man 2 million dollars because BMW sold him a car with a paint job that concealed  prior damage. That eventually was reduced , but one clever lawyer soaping up a jury about Hitler, VW and TDI engines being used to harm the american public might  get a jury to really put the knife into VW.

    Most likely, these suits, in the US at least, will be consolidated to 2, representing the classes primarily affected: one for consumers and one for dealers.


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Spyderidol:

    I'm not sure this has been posted yet, but here is confirmation of Muller  as CEO of VAG

    http://newsroom.porsche.com/en/company/matthias-mueller-porsche-volkswagen-ceo-11435.html

     

    If there was ever a case to offer condolences to a promotion, this might be it.    


    --

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Agreed!



    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    I am not sure about no VW executive will face criminal charges, it all depends on how much they knew. Recently, the US Attorney took the entire management of Peanut Corporation of America to criminal court for all the damage they caused. And they got extensive jail terms.

    And FIFA, they will get long jail terms also.


    --
    Porsche owner since 1975.


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    RC:

    I also wonder why VW immediately acknowledged the "cheating", it wasn't very clever in my opinion because it leaves only little to be "handled" by the lawyers they hired. yes

    I bet you the scandal is even bigger than they acknowledged. For several years, the gas-powered Audi TT could not pass California emission requirements even though they passed the EPA requirements. So for several years the Audi TT was not available in California. Then about the same time the diesels made their entry, the Audi TT started passing the CARB requirements. Same software could have easily been applied to both.

    Not all cards sold in the US meet the CARB requirements and therefore are not sold in California. In the old days, there were two different US models, the California model and the 49-state model. Fortunately, most manufacturers can  now meet both emission requirements.


    --
    Porsche owner since 1975.


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    vtrader:

    I am not sure about no VW executive will face criminal charges, it all depends on how much they knew. Recently, the US Attorney took the entire management of Peanut Corporation of America to criminal court for all the damage they caused. And they got extensive jail terms.

    And FIFA, they will get long jail terms also.

     

    Only a shame no one from the EPA went to jail for the Colorado river spillage.  Do as I say, not as I do.

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    All cars equipped with that  2.0L diesel engine have an official government  STOP SALE in Switzerland since today .


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     997.2 C2 ,  -20mm  I 964 Carrera 4 I 991 GT3 RS 

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    It is reported that the affected cars, all 2.0 TDI are 5million VW and 11million VW Group in total. VW are saying that these cars will be located and remedial work will be offered.

    We have two 2.0 TDI in our family. So if the remedial work is after removing the offending software VW would proceed to reducing emissions through a new engine management which will mean that the engine output and performance of the cars will be reduced. I don't think this will be acceptable to us as owners, unless we would have to accept under some kind of legislation in which case as owners would seek some kind of reparation from VW-Audi-Skoda-SEAT that use the 2.0 TDI engines.

    Whatever happens VW will pay dearly in money and reputation and moreover the whole "made in Germany" image will not be the same from now on probably affecting corporations beyond the automotive industry.  I guess many millions of Germans must be living out of the VW Group and a number are bound to suffer job losses etc. as sales take a tumble. The problematic Eurozone could be also in danger.

    If I were Merkel I would tackle the whole affair from the political angle and try to strike a damage limitation deal with the US government. The problems of individual corporations rarely rise to the level of geopolitics but VW is too large to fail not only for Germany but for half a dozen more countries in Europe where VW have plants and/or supply sources. Playing the geopolitical card with the Americans always works.

     


    --

     

    "Form follows function"

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    So some slow cars will feel a little slower. Oh well.


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    noone1:

    So some slow cars will feel a little slower. Oh well.

    A 190 HP TDI is not slow at all if the car is used for daily/family transport. But a low NOx emitting 90-100 HP turbodiesel wouldn't be acceptable in today's market.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    reginos:

    It is reported that the affected cars, all 2.0 TDI are 5million VW and 11million VW Group in total. VW are saying that these cars will be located and remedial work will be offered.

    We have two 2.0 TDI in our family. So if the remedial work is after removing the offending software VW would proceed to reducing emissions through a new engine management which will mean that the engine output and performance of the cars will be reduced. I don't think this will be acceptable to us as owners, unless we would have to accept under some kind of legislation in which case as owners would seek some kind of reparation from VW-Audi-Skoda-SEAT that use the 2.0 TDI engines.

    Whatever happens VW will pay dearly in money and reputation and moreover the whole "made in Germany" image will not be the same from now on probably affecting corporations beyond the automotive industry.  I guess many millions of Germans must be living out of the VW Group and a number are bound to suffer job losses etc. as sales take a tumble. The problematic Eurozone could be also in danger.

    If I were Merkel I would tackle the whole affair from the political angle and try to strike a damage limitation deal with the US government. The problems of individual corporations rarely rise to the level of geopolitics but VW is too large to fail not only for Germany but for half a dozen more countries in Europe where VW have plants and/or supply sources. Playing the geopolitical card with the Americans always works.

     


    --

     

    "Form follows function"

     

    Loss of performance - and possibly economy as well - wouldn't be acceptable to me either. In which case we have been miss-sold a product which is then recoverable in law.


    --

    Porsche Boxster GTS Carrara white / Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Had a chat with a few Porsche execs yesterday, they believe their V6 diesel is fine, the VW 4 cylinder ones have no urea injection thus harder to pass.

    Even they themselves are not sure how everything will be after the 'earthquake'. There will be some shuffling, David Donohue job as a 918 client manager is due to end in 2 weeks and will be reassigned.

    Dr. Walliser said he doesn't expect his racing budget will be greatly affected, and he is firmly committed to making NA cars for the foreseeable future, no turbos from him.

    Also Nico Hulkenberg, after winning Le Mans, took a 918 prototype around the Ring, after than he went and bought a 918 2nd handed at market price.

    There is a strong rumour going on around that Audi might not be doing much racing for a while. 

    But the general feeling is that Porsche the brand itself is fine at the moment even after the scandal, the other brands will be more affected. 

     


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    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Did they mention any more aggressive push into EVs like the mission e in order to correct the reputation hit?


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Mission E is a go, it is coming 2018-ish. But there is no plans for a Motorsports version yet. 

    Regardless, Porsche didn't take a reputation hit, VW and Audi did. 


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    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    As I understand it the issue (so far at least) relates to the small TDI engines only.

    Why would Audi take a hit on their larger diesels and their petrol engines? Unless someone is a fanatical environmentalist who would reject all VW-Audi products on a matter of moral principle. But anyway ecologically inclined people don't drive cars with large multicylinder engines and don't form the customer base for Audi cars.


    --

     

    "Form follows function"

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    reginos:

    As I understand it the issue relates to the small TDI engines only.

    ........But anyway ecologically inclined people don't drive cars with large multicylinder engines and don't form the customer base for Audi cars.


    --

     

    "Form follows function"

     

    No, tree-huggers drive Toyota Prius and other similar cars whose batteries are full of toxic materials such as lead and cadmium!


    --

    Porsche Boxster GTS Carrara white / Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    dreamcar:
    reginos:

    As I understand it the issue relates to the small TDI engines only.

    ........But anyway ecologically inclined people don't drive cars with large multicylinder engines and don't form the customer base for Audi cars.


    --

     

    "Form follows function"

     

    No, tree-huggers drive Toyota Prius and other similar cars whose batteries are full of toxic materials such as lead and cadmium!

    SmileySmiley


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    So, GM is culpable for 145 deaths due to faulty ignitions and is fined 900million and VW, having horribly misled people albeit without being involved in the death of anyone, is contemplating $7bn+ in fines. What am I missing, this seems to me to be economic warfare between the U.S. and Germany and it is just not right. Sure it is unacceptable for an engineering led company to cheat, but at some point the punishment has to fit the crime and this seems to be more a case of bureaucrats going after the foreigner than anything else.


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    German Co that knows they did something wrong and is naive as to how the U.S. Justice system works. Obviously they should have reached a voluntary deal but German Cos are not good at dealing with these sort of things especially when they know they did something wrong. American Cos on the other hand knowingly kill people and then negotiate their way out of it. At the end all it is is an economic transfer to the U.S. And just wait and see how the legions of lechrous U.S. "bodies" grab on to this gravy train. 


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    70 years on and those Germans are still trying to gas everyone....Smiley


    --

     

    2003 Cayenne Turbo

     


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Agent Provocateur:

    70 years on and those Germans are still trying to gas everyone....Smiley


    --

     

    2003 Cayenne Turbo

     

    Nothing justifies this joke


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3 2017 Porsche Mission E on order


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    996FourEss:

    So, GM is culpable for 145 deaths due to faulty ignitions and is fined 900million and VW, having horribly misled people albeit without being involved in the death of anyone, is contemplating $7bn+ in fines. What am I missing, this seems to me to be economic warfare between the U.S. and Germany and it is just not right. Sure it is unacceptable for an engineering led company to cheat, but at some point the punishment has to fit the crime and this seems to be more a case of bureaucrats going after the foreigner than anything else.

    I think the problem here, ignoring the lawsuits directly related to the issue, which GM is still subject to, is that it's relatively easy to replace a faulty ignition switch. It's not so easy to fix or replace a faulty engine and leave the customers with a car that is what they originally paid for. Thus, the $7+B that VW has put aside for this at this point is probably more toward that end than toward fines, per se.

    Hopefully, the EPA will exercise discretion in fines, and they will not be so great as to kneecap VW, which will mostly not hurt the people responsible, but those who had little or nothing to do with it. It may be that the DoJ investigation will lead to more meaningful punishment.

    That being said, I think GM got off way too light, with little more than a slap on the wrist and no criminal liability for anyone involved. But, that could be "good" for VW, since if there is great disparity in the penalties, it will look like economic warfare.


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    996FourEss:

    So, GM is culpable for 145 deaths due to faulty ignitions and is fined 900million and VW, having horribly misled people albeit without being involved in the death of anyone, is contemplating $7bn+ in fines. What am I missing, this seems to me to be economic warfare between the U.S. and Germany and it is just not right. Sure it is unacceptable for an engineering led company to cheat, but at some point the punishment has to fit the crime and this seems to be more a case of bureaucrats going after the foreigner than anything else.

    You don't think that 11 million cars emiting way more polution than they ought to over a 7 year period caused less than the 145 GM deaths? cheeky


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    Agent Provocateur:

    70 years on and those Germans are still trying to gas everyone....Smiley


    --

     

    2003 Cayenne Turbo

     

    You may have been too kind. 11 million emitters of multiple toxins , intentionally violating laws of so many countries, with disregard until they were caught shows their true jackboot arrogance. Pretty much VW management  said FU world.


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    reginos:

    As I understand it the issue (so far at least) relates to the small TDI engines only.

    Why would Audi take a hit on their larger diesels and their petrol engines? Unless someone is a fanatical environmentalist who would reject all VW-Audi products on a matter of moral principle. But anyway ecologically inclined people don't drive cars with large multicylinder engines and don't form the customer base for Audi cars.


    --

     

    "Form follows function"

     

     

    The small 4 cylinder diesel is shared by VW and Audi, it's the same one in the A3, this is why Audi will also take a hit.

    The larger V6 diesel is kind of shared with Porsche, but Porsche tuned theirs differently.


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    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    EnglishManInNY:
    Agent Provocateur:

    70 years on and those Germans are still trying to gas everyone....Smiley


    --

     

    2003 Cayenne Turbo

     

    Nothing justifies this joke

    I laughed out loud at Starbucks just now and I'm a Jew! I'd say it's a good joke. Didn't 11 million people also die in the Holocaust? Grim coincidence...


    Re: VW caught cheating emissions tests

    This is typical US hypocrisy.. In no way is such a harsh punishment justified. Spend more time actually making sure you can prove that the CEO knew about it and put this asshole in jail for the rest of his life!!! Can't just have it nice big salary and sweet bonuses and not take responsibility.. but the US doesn't know much about this regard. I find it sad that this happened, and it's terrible cheating, and I hope VW takes a big big hit.. but let's pump the brakes here. There were no direct innocent deaths like Toyota etc.. and it's a small Diesel 4cyl.. obviously it can't be that bad!! Or at least much much worse than advertised. Besides, only idiots buy diesels for the environment  I can understand long distance commercial, but a small city Golf that drives 4km to work is simply not the right car. 


    --

    1991 BMW 535i Granitsilber/White Leather

    Ex: '91 BMW 318i, '89 BMW 525i, '74 Mercedes-Benz 280E, '87 BMW 325is, '86 BMW 325e, '05 Ford Focus ZX4 S, '85.5 Porsche 944

    
    

     
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