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    Re: Corvette C8

    Perhaps with the C5 but with the newer, modified platforms leading to the C6 and C7, that should have been addressed.  Once again, GM stuck to a legacy/tradition approach. 


    Re: Corvette C8

    Curious as to why the C8 hasn't been spotted at the Ring. Not a good sign.surprise


    --

     

    Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.

     


    Re: Corvette C8

    For decades the Corvette engineers fought a losing war with GM to build a all new car.

    Now they have one.  These are not stupid people who cobbled up a cheap Charlie chassis and suspension.

    Finally they have a car that will match the performance of it's engine.

    The base model is already quicker than the new Ford GT. 

    Be forewarned! 


    Re: Corvette C8

    nberry:

    Curious as to why the C8 hasn't been spotted at the Ring. Not a good sign.surprise


    --

     

    Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.

     

    They actually did a lot of testing at the Ring. And at the clone Lutz Ring in Michigan.

    To avoid confusion for PR and Marketing reasons Corvette will give a Ring time for the Z06 version when it is released this spring.

     

     


    Re: Corvette C8

    Peter DeLorenzo on the new Porsche 911 Carrera vs. the new Corvette:

    All of sudden Porsche pricing has become distinctly problematic with the emergence of the 2020 Corvette Sting Ray. Porsche operatives have been jacking up prices for years now, to the point that many of the Porsche faithful have become disgruntled or just flat-out pissed-off. The Porsche option list is usurious by itself, a work of gulp fiction that is unconscionable. The new Corvette presents a serious alternative to the Porsche 911 in terms of performance, looks and genuine value for the money; and it will be very interesting to see how it all plays out. -PMD”

    http://www.autoextremist.com/on-the-table1/


    Re: Corvette C8

    JimFlat6:

    For decades the Corvette engineers fought a losing war with GM to build a all new car.

    Now they have one.  These are not stupid people who cobbled up a cheap Charlie chassis and suspension.

    Finally they have a car that will match the performance of it's engine.

    The base model is already quicker than the new Ford GT. 

    Be forewarned! 

    General Motors was controlled by finance for way too long. 


    Re: Corvette C8

    JimFlat6:
    nberry:

    Curious as to why the C8 hasn't been spotted at the Ring. Not a good sign.surprise


    --

     

    Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.

     

    They actually did a lot of testing at the Ring. And at the clone Lutz Ring in Michigan.

    To avoid confusion for PR and Marketing reasons Corvette will give a Ring time for the Z06 version when it is released this spring.

     

    https://youtu.be/_MmyxXL7Tsc


    Re: Corvette C8

    JimFlat6:
    nberry:

    Curious as to why the C8 hasn't been spotted at the Ring. Not a good sign.surprise


    --

     

    Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.

     

    They actually did a lot of testing at the Ring. And at the clone Lutz Ring in Michigan.

    To avoid confusion for PR and Marketing reasons Corvette will give a Ring time for the Z06 version when it is released this spring.

     

     

    Any estimates/target Ring times for Z51, Z06, and ZR1?


    --

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: Corvette C8

    Grant I have no idea. I doubt that the tire compound for the latter two models has been finalized.

     A bird may have flown by suggesting that they want to hire a well known driver from a country the Romans once named for it's Rabbits. If that happens then the lap time might be very interesting.


    Re: Corvette C8

    Reality check:

    1. The C8 is not sold out in the US, dealers don't really have allocations yet (they get them in Sept. as far as I heard), so how can it be sold out when dealers don't even know how many cars they get? broken heart Demand is high though according to Corvette dealerships in the US, higher than when the C7 was introduced.

    2. The C8 will be a dead duck in the water in Europe if GM makes the same mistakes of the past again. Meaning: Too high prices vs. the US market, lousy spare parts delivery times (up to 3 months and more), bad service (they sold Corvettes for 130k in the same dealerships selling Opel cars for 20k), serious image problems and actually bad product quality at times (a 130k car with a cheap plastic interior looks really bad).

    3. The best way to introduce the new C8 to a very very difficult European market would be the C8 with the n/a V8 engine at an entry level base price of let's say 70k EUR, maybe 69k EUR. This would be a very very hard blow for Porsche and other manufacturers in Europe and this could actually lift the image of the C8 in Europe and open the door for the more powerful upcoming Turbo and Turbo hybrid models. Of course GM will not do that and the same old happens again, no surprises here.  If GM can offer the C8 for a base price of under 60k USD in the US, I think it should be possible, even if they don't make a ton of money out of it, to offer the C8 with the V8 n/a engine in Europe for under 70k EUR.

    4. Ford introduced the Mustang officially in Europe a few years ago and it became the best selling sports car in Germany at some point. The reason was simple: V8 n/a engine for a ridiculously low price of around 45-50k EUR. Quality was never the best but the cars were attractively priced, good performers and fun to drive. Now Ford got lazy and it will cost them a lot: They had issues with the particulate filter adaptation on 2020 models and their cars lost power, the 4-cyl. Ecoboost over 20 hp as far as I heard, the V8 still lost (I think) 10 hp in the automatic version. Also, the Mustang GT350 and the new Shelby GT500 are not officially available in Europe. This is really a bummer since some Mustang owners would love to upgrade for example. There also would be demand for a GT350 and maybe even for the new GT500 if Ford prices the cars right and knows how to market them. No such thing happening, I think Ford misses an opportunity here but I guess the particulate filter is a challenge for them, similar to European manufacturers.

    In the end, I think that the new C8 will be a huge success in the US but another "dud" in Europe, as sad as this may sound.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Corvette C8

    RC:

    Reality check:

    1. The C8 is not sold out in the US, dealers don't really have allocations yet (they get them in Sept. as far as I heard), so how can it be sold out when dealers don't even know how many cars they get? broken heart Demand is high though according to Corvette dealerships in the US, higher than when the C7 was introduced.

    2. The C8 will be a dead duck in the water in Europe if GM makes the same mistakes of the past again. Meaning: Too high prices vs. the US market, lousy spare parts delivery times (up to 3 months and more), bad service (they sold Corvettes for 130k in the same dealerships selling Opel cars for 20k), serious image problems and actually bad product quality at times (a 130k car with a cheap plastic interior looks really bad).

    3. The best way to introduce the new C8 to a very very difficult European market would be the C8 with the n/a V8 engine at an entry level base price of let's say 70k EUR, maybe 69k EUR. This would be a very very hard blow for Porsche and other manufacturers in Europe and this could actually lift the image of the C8 in Europe and open the door for the more powerful upcoming Turbo and Turbo hybrid models. Of course GM will not do that and the same old happens again, no surprises here.  If GM can offer the C8 for a base price of under 60k USD in the US, I think it should be possible, even if they don't make a ton of money out of it, to offer the C8 with the V8 n/a engine in Europe for under 70k EUR.

    4. Ford introduced the Mustang officially in Europe a few years ago and it became the best selling sports car in Germany at some point. The reason was simple: V8 n/a engine for a ridiculously low price of around 45-50k EUR. Quality was never the best but the cars were attractively priced, good performers and fun to drive. Now Ford got lazy and it will cost them a lot: They had issues with the particulate filter adaptation on 2020 models and their cars lost power, the 4-cyl. Ecoboost over 20 hp as far as I heard, the V8 still lost (I think) 10 hp in the automatic version. Also, the Mustang GT350 and the new Shelby GT500 are not officially available in Europe. This is really a bummer since some Mustang owners would love to upgrade for example. There also would be demand for a GT350 and maybe even for the new GT500 if Ford prices the cars right and knows how to market them. No such thing happening, I think Ford misses an opportunity here but I guess the particulate filter is a challenge for them, similar to European manufacturers.

    In the end, I think that the new C8 will be a huge success in the US but another "dud" in Europe, as sad as this may sound.

    1. there is online registration of interest...and demand is already reaching manufacturing capabilities for 2020...

    2. I read like Jeep equivalent here Smiley and as far as I know, cheap interior can be forgotten if there is something else to justify like performance. have you looked at a plastic cheap base interior of a GT3? 0 interest. cheap...really cheap and it is starting price at 150K.

    3.Europe hum hum Germany fought very hard to European level to put tariff on U.S. cars to avoid competition... I am afraid the price is not at the sole discretion of GM.

     


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Corvette C8

    Trump will get his way with car tariffs, you'll see. If he would have been a bit more diplomatic, this whole tariffs situation would have been solved by now. Some German politicians took his behavior and words personally and went into defiance mode. Not good for trade. So I think GM won't have any tariffs argument to make the C8 more expensive in Germany/Europe.

    Jeep equivalent? I drove the Trackhawk recently and it is at an interior quality level of the previous X5 generation. Not bad in my opinion but the Trackhawk interior is a bit better than the usual Jeep GC interior. 

    Registration of interest...yes but nobody knows exactly GMs manufacturing capabilities for 2020. Smiley Dealers in the US don't have fixed allocations yet, so everything right now is just a bit of a hysteria. Also keep in mind that with full options, most C8 will be priced at around 80k, not under 60k, so some people may actually back off from ordering one.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: Corvette C8

    I’ll refrain from injecting politics into this thread.   

    Even at 80k, the new C8 is less expensive than a base level Porsche Boxster/Cayman with a few options too.  It is also less expensive than an Audi TT RS or RS 5 and much less than a Lotus Evora.  It is relatively Alfa-Romeo 4C money.  


    Re: Corvette C8

    Judging from the pictures, the C8 has something cheap about its styling. It is also closer to the aesthetic of  Japanese cars than to European tastes. The least exotic of European mid-engined cars, the R8 looks much more upscale compared to the new Corvette.

    The C8 will appeal to the bargain seekers  (the type of people who drove Supras and 300ZX in past decades)  than to the classy and sophisticated car enthusiasts.


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: Corvette C8

    reginos:

    Judging from the pictures, the C8 has something cheap about its styling. It is also closer to the aesthetic of  Japanese cars than to European tastes. The least exotic of European mid-engined cars, the R8 looks much more upscale compared to the new Corvette.

    The C8 will appeal to the bargain seekers  (the type of people who drove Supras and 300ZX in past decades)  than to the classy and sophisticated car enthusiasts.

     

    Slight correction. That would be the Alfa 4C Smiley


    --

     

     


    Re: Corvette C8

    reginos:

    Judging from the pictures, the C8 has something cheap about its styling. It is also closer to the aesthetic of  Japanese cars than to European tastes. The least exotic of European mid-engined cars, the R8 looks much more upscale compared to the new Corvette.

    The C8 will appeal to the bargain seekers  (the type of people who drove Supras and 300ZX in past decades)  than to the classy and sophisticated car enthusiasts.

    You do realize that the Audi R8’s base price is nearly three greater than the base price of the Corvette, so it should appear much more upscale in appearance.  However, even the R8 has raw, black plastic mesh over vents, just like the Corvette.  

    Styling is always subjective and the Corvette needs to maintain a visible link with its predecessors.  This is does quite successfully.  It isn’t offensive and there are lines reminiscent of older Ferraris and McLarens in the design.  

    If the Corvette delivers anywhere near its perceived competition, it will be a sales success for many years.  It has promise and I know more car guys in the States talking about the new Vette than any other car in recent history.  Once again, sales success is determined locally and not in the EU.  


    Re: Corvette C8

    CGX car nut:
    reginos:

    Judging from the pictures, the C8 has something cheap about its styling. It is also closer to the aesthetic of  Japanese cars than to European tastes. The least exotic of European mid-engined cars, the R8 looks much more upscale compared to the new Corvette.

    The C8 will appeal to the bargain seekers  (the type of people who drove Supras and 300ZX in past decades)  than to the classy and sophisticated car enthusiasts.

    You do realize that the Audi R8’s base price is nearly three greater than the base price of the Corvette, so it should appear much more upscale in appearance.  However, even the R8 has raw, black plastic mesh over vents, just like the Corvette.  

    Styling is always subjective and the Corvette needs to maintain a visible link with its predecessors.  This is does quite successfully.  It isn’t offensive and there are lines reminiscent of older Ferraris and McLarens in the design.  

    If the Corvette delivers anywhere near its perceived competition, it will be a sales success for many years.  It has promise and I know more car guys in the States talking about the new Vette than any other car in recent history.  Once again, sales success is determined locally and not in the EU.  

    The C8 will definitely be a sales success in the USA at that selling price.

    However, IMO Chevrolet could have injected some more sophistication/class into the styling to make it more akin to European mid-engined sportscars which are the benchmark worldwide in their class. This would have widened the C8's appeal further outside the USA.

    I don't think that upscale styling is simply a function of the selling price of a car. For example Boxster and Cayman are very successfully styled in this respect even compared to the 918 Spyder which was selling at a price 10 times more.


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: Corvette C8

    CGX car nut:

    Peter DeLorenzo on the new Porsche 911 Carrera vs. the new Corvette:

    All of sudden Porsche pricing has become distinctly problematic with the emergence of the 2020 Corvette Sting Ray. Porsche operatives have been jacking up prices for years now, to the point that many of the Porsche faithful have become disgruntled or just flat-out pissed-off. The Porsche option list is usurious by itself, a work of gulp fiction that is unconscionable. The new Corvette presents a serious alternative to the Porsche 911 in terms of performance, looks and genuine value for the money; and it will be very interesting to see how it all plays out. -PMD”

    http://www.autoextremist.com/on-the-table1/

    Been saying that for a decade... But do not worry, Porsche apparently has a plan, they have money and some smart people in house, they are still 5 years behind but at some point they will get it... The real issue will be margins on non GT cars and « turbo » and « turbo S » variants because for daily uses, which is the only thing these are used for, the performance aspect is gone vs new techs.


    Re: Corvette C8

    Porsche believes they operate in their own universe and in a way they do. Steering feel, brake feel, suspension response are all their very own and in many ways superior to all others.

    All previous Corvettes felt like you were sitting on the car, not in it and the pedal feel was wooden on initial pressure.

    The C8 was engineered to put the drivers glutius Maximus as close as possible to it's low center of gravity.

    I might have a chance to drive one in early October and will let you know if it's just another blunt edged broadsword or something much much better. They say they benchmarked it to exceed the dynamics of the Ferrari 458. 

     

     


    Re: Corvette C8

    Why?  The Corvette is unabashedly America’s sports car.  Cadillac, by aping the European marques, lost its way.  This is why the Escalade, which is uniquely American, remains a perennial sales success story and this is why Corvette is following that model.  Don’t forget that a midship engine configuration is part of the Corvette legend since the 1960s.


    Re: Corvette C8

    There has been too many 911 killers in the past, from different manufacturer but the 911 stays the same and wins..... The most recent was the AMG GT 


    Re: Corvette C8

    AP911:

    There has been too many 911 killers in the past, from different manufacturer but the 911 stays the same and wins..... The most recent was the AMG GT 

    Media is what declares the next 911 killer.  Most will compete on a few different levels with the 911, but none to-date have competed on the panoply of parameters that make the 911 a consumer favorite in the sports car class.  The new C8 Corvette is more of the original Honda NSX redux than 911 competitor and should be framed within that context.


    Re: Corvette C8

    No.

    The new Corvette might be the destroyer of the 911.

    Old NSX is long gone new NSX is already forgotten.

     


    Re: Corvette C8

    JimFlat6:

    Porsche believes they operate in their own universe and in a way they do. Steering feel, brake feel, suspension response are all their very own and in many ways superior to all others.

    All previous Corvettes felt like you were sitting on the car, not in it and the pedal feel was wooden on initial pressure.

    The C8 was engineered to put the drivers glutius Maximus as close as possible to it's low center of gravity.

    I might have a chance to drive one in early October and will let you know if it's just another blunt edged broadsword or something much much better. They say they benchmarked it to exceed the dynamics of the Ferrari 458. 

     

     

    Jim, that would be great. Not sure when they will make the car available to the journalist. Do you know?


    --

    Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.


    Re: Corvette C8

     
    JimFlat6:

    They say they benchmarked it to exceed the dynamics of the Ferrari 458. 

    This is not aspirational at all for 2020 if you consider that the 458 is a yesterday's car which ran until model year 2015 Smiley

     


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: Corvette C8

    nberry:
    JimFlat6:

    Porsche believes they operate in their own universe and in a way they do. Steering feel, brake feel, suspension response are all their very own and in many ways superior to all others.

    All previous Corvettes felt like you were sitting on the car, not in it and the pedal feel was wooden on initial pressure.

    The C8 was engineered to put the drivers glutius Maximus as close as possible to it's low center of gravity.

    I might have a chance to drive one in early October and will let you know if it's just another blunt edged broadsword or something much much better. They say they benchmarked it to exceed the dynamics of the Ferrari 458. 

     

     

    Jim, that would be great. Not sure when they will make the car available to the journalist. Do you know?

    I don't know when journos will get cars.

    The car I will get to drive is a early one going to a friend who owns 7 dealerships.


    Re: Corvette C8

    reginos:
     
    JimFlat6:

    They say they benchmarked it to exceed the dynamics of the Ferrari 458. 

    This is not aspirational at all for 2020 if you consider that the 458 is a yesterday's car which ran until model year 2015 Smiley

     

    Not to match but to exceed. Just tire compound alone has moved way past the 458 era.


    Re: Corvette C8

    JimFlat6:
    reginos:
     
    JimFlat6:

    They say they benchmarked it to exceed the dynamics of the Ferrari 458. 

    This is not aspirational at all for 2020 if you consider that the 458 is a yesterday's car which ran until model year 2015 Smiley

     

    Not to match but to exceed. Just tire compound alone has moved way past the 458 era.

    OK. Time will tell Smiley


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: Corvette C8

    Whoopsy:
    reginos:

    Judging from the pictures, the C8 has something cheap about its styling. It is also closer to the aesthetic of  Japanese cars than to European tastes. The least exotic of European mid-engined cars, the R8 looks much more upscale compared to the new Corvette.

    The C8 will appeal to the bargain seekers  (the type of people who drove Supras and 300ZX in past decades)  than to the classy and sophisticated car enthusiasts.

     

    Slight correction. That would be the Alfa 4C Smiley

    Which btw. was a huge flop in Europe... Smiley Something I never understood.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Corvette C8

    RC:
    Whoopsy:
    reginos:

    Judging from the pictures, the C8 has something cheap about its styling. It is also closer to the aesthetic of  Japanese cars than to European tastes. The least exotic of European mid-engined cars, the R8 looks much more upscale compared to the new Corvette.

    The C8 will appeal to the bargain seekers  (the type of people who drove Supras and 300ZX in past decades)  than to the classy and sophisticated car enthusiasts.

     

    Slight correction. That would be the Alfa 4C Smiley

    Which btw. was a huge flop in Europe... Smiley Something I never understood.

    It was a flop because it was an Alfa Romeo. Had BMW or Audi made that same car it would have been lauded.


    --

     

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     


     
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