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    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    KresoF1:

    In acceleration from 0-100km/h, 0-200km/h and 0-300km/h yes. In top speed no.

    Audi R8 V10 Plus has more or less the same time of acceleration as Huracan. At Fastest Laps site Huracan is 27.6 secs for 0-300 km/h. And 991.1 Turbo S stands for 29.7 secs for 0-300 kmh. It will be very good if 991.2 Turbo S will be more than 2 secs faster for 0-300 kmh, thought its hard to believe because 991.2 Turbo S is only evolution over 991.1 Turbo S. Unlike the regular Carrera where 991.2 is a huge step over 991.1.

    Dear KresoF1, what is your understanding?

     


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    New 991.2 Turbo S should be in 0-300km/h as fast as Huracan and R8 V10 Plus. Or even marginally  faster. That is from my P source. 


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    How?  with 30 extra HP?  sounds like there is more needed into shaving a full 2 seconds off the time?

    Thank you.


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    Simple, more torque. Torque is what accelerate a car. HP gain is more of a function of increased torque and more for the ultimate top speed a car can pull.


    --

     

     


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    KresoF1:

    New 991.2 Turbo S should be in 0-300km/h as fast as Huracan and R8 V10 Plus. Or even marginally  faster. That is from my P source. 

    Your words mean that 991.2 Turbo S is faster than Huracan for 0-250 kmh and slower in the range of 250-300 kmh... Because 991.1 Turbo S is equal with Huracan for 0-200 kmh...


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    According to my source, the new Turbo S is supposed to do 0-200 kph in 9.8 seconds (official time). The official time for the current 991.1 Turbo S is 10.3 seconds. Improvements have been achieved through more power, an improved PDK software and PAA setup. So yes, the facelifted Turbo S will very likely be in Huracan/R8 V10 Plus performance territory (from 0-100 kph, the facelifted Turbo S is rumored to be 0.2 seconds faster than current one).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    RC:

    According to my source, the new Turbo S is supposed to do 0-200 kph in 9.8 seconds (official time). The official time for the current 991.1 Turbo S is 10.3 seconds. Improvements have been achieved through more power, an improved PDK software and PAA setup. So yes, the facelifted Turbo S will very likely be in Huracan/R8 V10 Plus performance territory (from 0-100 kph, the facelifted Turbo S is rumored to be 0.2 seconds faster than current one).


    Interesting. And now please the rumoured numbers for the next generation Turbo S you talked about in the other thread. Smiley


    --

     

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

     


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    This thread has turned highly amusing smiley Speculation about which future car is a fraction of a second faster to accelerate to a speed which is illegal to drive in most countries. I am trying to find a use case for 0-300km/h... hmm? 

    Anyway, the discussion reminds me of this game which I used to play as a kid:

    TRUMPS.JPG

    Oh, I pulled the Koenigsegg card. It is faster than the Turbo S, V10 Plus and Huracan indecision


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    bluelines:

    This thread has turned highly amusing smiley Speculation about which future car is a fraction of a second faster to accelerate to a speed which is illegal to drive in most countries. I am trying to find a use case for 0-300km/h... hmm? 

    Anyway, the discussion reminds me of this game which I used to play as a kid:

    TRUMPS.JPG

    Oh, I pulled the Koenigsegg card. It is faster than the Turbo S, V10 Plus and Huracan indecision

    Same reason why we need DSG transmissions instead of the old, but more entertaining, manual transmission; it makes better fodder around the barroom table.  


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    RC:

    According to my source, the new Turbo S is supposed to do 0-200 kph in 9.8 seconds (official time). The official time for the current 991.1 Turbo S is 10.3 seconds. Improvements have been achieved through more power, an improved PDK software and PAA setup. So yes, the facelifted Turbo S will very likely be in Huracan/R8 V10 Plus performance territory (from 0-100 kph, the facelifted Turbo S is rumored to be 0.2 seconds faster than current one).

    Is there any word about reducing massive weight Smiley


    --

    My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    992 will be lighter hopefully


    --

    Porsche 911 GT3 - Guards Red 997 MKII Clubsport


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    No chance the 992 loses real weight... If they did they would start with the GTx versions... and they haven't...


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    @SciFrog Without weight reduction 991.2 will be even heavier because of added turbos, rumor says 992 will be equipped with hybrid technology. Those cars will be fat pigs angry 918 is heavy as hell because of hybrid tech and that car is almost all-carbon.

    Starting mass production of CF panels and structural elements shouldnt be hard for Porsche. Question is why (or who) is stopping them to make that step.


    --

     

    My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com

     


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    Milanno:

    @SciFrog Without weight reduction 991.2 will be even heavier because of added turbos, rumor says 992 will be equipped with hybrid technology. Those cars will be fat pigs angry 918 is heavy as hell because of hybrid tech and that car is almost all-carbon.

    Starting mass production of CF panels and structural elements shouldnt be hard for Porsche. Question is why (or who) is stopping them to make that step.


    --

     

    My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com

    Maybe those clueless people wearing ties that Walter Rohrl was ranting about? Smiley

    Cars hide their weight so well these days it's not worth using exotic materials on mass produced vehicles (and even if they did use CF here and there, I doubt the weight savings would be substantial)...unless it's done for marketing (BMW) Smiley

     


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    SciFrog:

    No chance the 992 loses real weight... If they did they would start with the GTx versions... and they haven't...

    I think there might be confusion here between 991.2 and 992.  992 is complete new generation over 3 years away.  991.2 is facelift coming this Fall.

    Hopefully 992 is both smaller and lighter (maybe composite construction).  I think 992 is first 911 that shares architecture with other VW family products.


    --

     

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

     


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    Grant:
     

    Hopefully 992 is both smaller and lighter (maybe composite construction).  I think 992 is first 911 that shares architecture with other VW family products.


    --

    Right, the 991 was lighter than the 997 due to more extensive use of aluminum, so there is no reason the 992 could be lighter as well.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    Rossi:
    RC:

    According to my source, the new Turbo S is supposed to do 0-200 kph in 9.8 seconds (official time). The official time for the current 991.1 Turbo S is 10.3 seconds. Improvements have been achieved through more power, an improved PDK software and PAA setup. So yes, the facelifted Turbo S will very likely be in Huracan/R8 V10 Plus performance territory (from 0-100 kph, the facelifted Turbo S is rumored to be 0.2 seconds faster than current one).


    Interesting. And now please the rumoured numbers for the next generation Turbo S you talked about in the other thread. Smiley

    Lighter(!), more accentuated visual "difference" to Carrera, new interior (for all 911) with digital speedo and different "faces" (switchable), some sort(?) of hybrid technology, "electric" turbo chargers (very likely 2 plus 1 setup, whatever this means), only minor power increase (620-630 hp for the Turbo S), better performance also through improved AWD/PTM, PDK, etc., roomier(!). Sorry, no performance figures but I heard that the 0-200 kph time is targeted at "under 9 seconds".


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    Grant:
    SciFrog:

    No chance the 992 loses real weight... If they did they would start with the GTx versions... and they haven't...

    I think there might be confusion here between 991.2 and 992.  992 is complete new generation over 3 years away.  991.2 is facelift coming this Fall.

    Hopefully 992 is both smaller and lighter (maybe composite construction).  I think 992 is first 911 that shares architecture with other VW family products.


    --

     

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

     

    Lighter? Yes. Smaller? No. Also, 992 will be based on a Porsche developed platform but of course it cannot be excluded that other brands in the VW group won't use it too.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    Agent991:
    ...unless it's done for marketing (BMW) Smiley

    I dont know about marketing thing, but I`ve noticed BMW cars are getting a bit lighter. New BMW 7 weights around 1700kg compared to predecessor`s 1950kg. BMW i3 weights around 1200kg, and i5 weights around 1450 kg. All those cars are lighter primarily because of CF usage. 

    Porsche could be criticized for using marketing in wrong way too. They are calling themselves sports-car company, but they dont care about their sports-cars getting heaver & heavier (for now).


    --

    My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    Milanno:
    Agent991:
    ...unless it's done for marketing (BMW) Smiley

    I dont know about marketing thing, but I`ve noticed BMW cars are getting a bit lighter. New BMW 7 weights around 1700kg compared to predecessor`s 1950kg. BMW i3 weights around 1200kg, and i5 weights around 1450 kg. All those cars are lighter primarily because of CF usage. 

    Porsche could be criticized for using marketing in wrong way too. They are calling themselves sports-car company, but they dont care about their sports-cars getting heaver & heavier (for now).

    It is very expensive to make a car lighter below a certain weight limit and this cost would be passed on to the consumer in any case. Something which no one would like to happen.

    IMO the important thing is how a car drives and how much it consumes irrespective of weight. For this there are many technologies available which cost less than lightening a car. Rear wheel steering, for example is a trick to make a heavier car handle like a lighter car without adding huge costs for light weight materials.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    reginos:
     

    It is very expensive to make a car lighter below a certain weight limit and this cost would be passed on to the consumer in any case. Something which no one would like to happen.

    I cant accept that argument because Porsche is making $23k per car (record in car industry). They already have over-priced TTS that is not delivering expected figures & emotions. They can mask car weight with technology, but is that right plan for making true sports-car? Walter Rohrl in his latest interview doesnt have nice words for clueless management that is obviously thirsty for more profit only. 

    Like RC said few months ago, Porsche is losing big time lately compared to sports-car competition in so many ways. Even (expensive) Ferrari became affordable compared to some over-priced Porsche models.


    --

    My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    I get the critics towards the guys with ties, but at least they are making money for the brand. What is worse is a company that is highly motivated and true to the brand but lacks all funds to develop something new for the past 10-15 years... angry


    --

    Porsche 911 GT3 - Guards Red 997 MKII Clubsport


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    Milanno:
    reginos:
     

    It is very expensive to make a car lighter below a certain weight limit and this cost would be passed on to the consumer in any case. Something which no one would like to happen.

    I cant accept that argument because Porsche is making $23k per car (record in car industry). They already have over-priced TTS that is not delivering expected figures & emotions. They can mask car weight with technology, but is that right plan for making true sports-car? Walter Rohrl in his latest interview doesnt have nice words for clueless management that is obviously thirsty for more profit only. 

    Like RC said few months ago, Porsche is losing big time lately compared to sports-car competition in so many ways. Even (expensive) Ferrari became affordable compared to some over-priced Porsche models.

    Why does the TT/TTS sell so well? It sells more units than all the similarly priced sportscars added together.

    Perhaps, people who own the Porsche Turbo models know something we don't yes

    The affordable Ferrari doesn't exist or rather it exists only on the price list. No one orders a "basic" Ferrari. With paint and carbon options running into tens of thousands these cars are for very rich and nowhere the Porsche clientele.

    Walter Rohrl (another belated Porsche critic) won the Rally Championship twice and is a very good driver but with all due respect  I don't think he has the business sense to advise on how a global car manufacturer should operate. Besides at 68 years of age I don't think he can identify with the wishes of the present day car buyer.


    --

     

    "Form follows function"

     


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    reginos My point of view is that Porsche should be more focused on its core values because those things made them famous in first place (simplicity, lightness, tech from motor-sport). Rohrl was & he will always be superb driver, he is not accountant. He is pointing on stuff that is missing in recent Porsche plans when it comes to developing sports-cars.

    Porsche is HIGHLY profitable company, yet they are still busy counting profit while their cars are getting fatter & fatter with more complex technology to hide that fatness. Current selling numbers are not guarantee for future success, those are product of past efforts. Core values that will be recognizable in future are most important for secure future.

    P.S. RC was one of those many who bought 991 TTS. Ask him why he didnt stayed longer with that top-selling car Smiley

     


    --

     

    My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com

     


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    Milanno:

    reginos My point of view is that Porsche should be more focused on its core values because those things made them famous in first place (simplicity, lightness, tech from motor-sport). Rohrl was & he will always be superb driver, he is not accountant. He is pointing on stuff that is missing in recent Porsche plans when it comes to developing sports-cars.

    Porsche is HIGHLY profitable company, yet they are still busy counting profit while their cars are getting fatter & fatter with more complex technology to hide that fatness.

    The problem is that a lot of that "fatness" is related to laws and regulations (crash durability for example, pedestrian protection and so on...).

    Maybe you should compare my 991 C4 GTS with a BMW M4 Cabriolet. The BMW weights...hold your breath...230 kg more and it doesn't even have AWD. Yes, it has a different roof system but still... Smiley 

    So compared to the competition, Porsche models are actually quite light but I am pretty sure that for this kind of money, Porsche can do better. I expect weight savings of at least 50 kg with the next generation, the 992.

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    Not sure if you guys have seen this video yet?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiFEPKCu6lM


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    RC:

    Lighter? Yes. Smaller? No. Also, 992 will be based on a Porsche developed platform but of course it cannot be excluded that other brands in the VW group won't use it too.

    I thought I read that the 992 will use a VW Group modular chassis that is shared across platforms (can be built as rear engine, mid-engine, etc.)?  Smiley


    --

     

     

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

     


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    BMW has a problem with all cabriolets. They are all around 200kg heavier than their Coupe counterpart.
    Also the 2 serie cab with fabric roof weight 200kg more than the coupe.


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    Grant:
    SciFrog:

    No chance the 992 loses real weight... If they did they would start with the GTx versions... and they haven't...

    I think there might be confusion here between 991.2 and 992.  992 is complete new generation over 3 years away.  991.2 is facelift coming this Fall.

    Hopefully 992 is both smaller and lighter (maybe composite construction).  I think 992 is first 911 that shares architecture with other VW family products.


    --

     

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

     

    Given the histrory of these cars 992 should be based on the same platform as 991. It is not economically feasible to design a new platform every 6 years. I doubt that VW will share the platform with other brands. It will just dillute the Porsche value. I think the Gallardo and R8 is a different story since Lambo production is way too small and there was more need to share development costs.


    Re: 991.2 and future models Thread Closed

    wantone:
    Grant:
    SciFrog:

    No chance the 992 loses real weight... If they did they would start with the GTx versions... and they haven't...

    I think there might be confusion here between 991.2 and 992.  992 is complete new generation over 3 years away.  991.2 is facelift coming this Fall.

    Hopefully 992 is both smaller and lighter (maybe composite construction).  I think 992 is first 911 that shares architecture with other VW family products.


    --

     

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

     

    Given the histrory of these cars 992 should be based on the same platform as 991. It is not economically feasible to design a new platform every 6 years. I doubt that VW will share the platform with other brands. It will just dillute the Porsche value. I think the Gallardo and R8 is a different story since Lambo production is way too small and there was more need to share development costs.

    Porsche hasn't diluted its brand with the introduction of the SUVs over a decade ago?  


     
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