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    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    A reborn retro racer, a rare rolling ride, a rump-engined red-striped revival... RRRrrr! indecision


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    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    KresoF1:

    Just as a comparison point...

    991 R max in second gear is 140km/h.

    991.1 GT3 max in second gear is 124km/h.

    Not a good sign, does anyone have the shift chart for R?

    i need low gears like gt3 or scud

    They show the car slamming the mountains on the website but how can that be w tall gears

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    KresoF1:

    Just as a comparison point...

    991 R max in second gear is 140km/h.

    991.1 GT3 max in second gear is 124km/h.

    Yeah, that's bad gearing for a car that's supposed to be involving. what's the point of a manual if the only shifting you'll do is 1st -> 2nd -> 7th ?


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    The gearing of the R is not that bad.  It's lower geared than the GT4, has significantly more torque and 115 hp more.  It will be tons of fun.  The speeds in gear are high because it revs all the way to 8,800 rpm.


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    noone1:
    KresoF1:

    Just as a comparison point...

    991 R max in second gear is 140km/h.

    991.1 GT3 max in second gear is 124km/h.

    Yeah, that's bad gearing for a car that's supposed to be involving. what's the point of a manual if the only shifting you'll do is 1st -> 2nd -> 7th ?

    100% agree.

    What do they think? Why would you make the gearing that kind of comfort-elastic? Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    where is the 7th gear?? one is PDK and one is manual


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    AM


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    The fact that it revs that high is actually an excuse to shorten the gears imho. It has no 7th gear. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Well, whatever. I don't know how many gears it has

    1st -> 2nd -> 6th. No different.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Maybe they do that in order to keep fuel consumption levels as low as possible for the tests .

    With shorter gearing , consumption would go way up .

    Personally , they could make the top speed in 6th at max 301 km/h , and so they could easily have much shorter gearings for 1st 2 nd 3 rd , which would make the car so much more fun , specially on open roads.


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    This too tall gear problem is chronic at Porsche, they are driving me back to Ferrari who gets it.  The cars are used maximum acceleration 20-250 kmh and need gearing to max that range.   The gap from 1 to 2nd in the gt4 another problem (1st redlined at 75 kmh and you enter 2nd at 4500 rpm way off the cam at 5800)

    i thought the R would be the answer, are there lower gears and r n p currently available for th R?  I hope it's yes!

     Even so, by the time I'm done I could buy A 488 which are $500 here

     

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Who seriously cares about the fuel usage on a manual limited edition overpriced 911?


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    noone1:

    Well, whatever. I don't know how many gears it has

    1st -> 2nd -> 6th. No different.

    Of course it matters! The more gears you have the less the covered speed range.

    If from 7 to 6 it doesn´t matter, then you can go further 6-5 no matter 5-4 no matter and so on. At the end in 1st gear you reach the maximum speed


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    AM


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    SciFrog:

    Who seriously cares about the fuel usage on a manual limited edition overpriced 911?

    Porsche, I guess Smiley


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    What is the USA price for R?


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    ALDO:
    noone1:

    Well, whatever. I don't know how many gears it has

    1st -> 2nd -> 6th. No different.

    Of course it matters! The more gears you have the less the covered speed range.

    If from 7 to 6 it doesn´t matter, then you can go further 6-5 no matter 5-4 no matter and so on. At the end in 1st gear you reach the maximum speed

    I'm just saying that given 140kph is in 2nd, after you pull out of your parking spot and get into 2nd gear, you're eventually just going to switch to whatever the top gear is for cruising. 90 mph on the narrow, twisty backroads is pretty damn fast and vastly above the speed limit, so I really don't see how how this manual is going to get much work.

    The performance of the 911R is still far beyond what will be fun to use on the road. Putting a manual in a car that's already too high of performance isn't going to make much difference IMO.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    watt:

    What is the USA price for R?

    $184,900


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    noone1:

    I'm just saying that given 140kph is in 2nd, after you pull out of your parking spot and get into 2nd gear, you're eventually just going to switch to whatever the top gear is for cruising. 90 mph on the narrow, twisty backroads is pretty damn fast and vastly above the speed limit, so I really don't see how how this manual is going to get much work.

    Just because the R can go 140kph in 2nd doesn't mean people will drive around in town at 8,800 rpm.  The R will spend plenty of time in gears 3-5.  It is not going to be as poorly geared as everyone is assuming from the numbers.  It was smart of Porsche to use the 4.0L motor instead of the GT3's 3.8L.  The extra torque will give greater flexibility around town.


    --

     

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    What are the speed ranges on each gear?

    It will spend plenty of time in gears 3-5, but when it is, it will be rather irrelevant, such as cruising around town. It's not like there are any dynamics at play or involvement when driving from stop sign to stop sign. The whole idea of the car is spirited, involving drives. It's not like they added a manual to address the dullness of city driving.

    With such high speed in 2nd gear and so much performance, not to mention the improved torque, you're going to find yourself not needing to shift. You can't row gears like you used to. The manual transmission doesn't solve the problem of it being a 500hp car.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    noone1:

    The manual transmission doesn't solve the problem of it being a 500hp car.

    That is a problem that I am totally prepared to live with Smiley


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    noone1:


    With such high speed in 2nd gear and so much performance, not to mention the improved torque, you're going to find yourself not needing to shift.

    While the extra torque will be helpful at any engine speed, the max torque comes over 6k rpm and the sweet spot for this motor is pretty high on the tach, so while you may not need to shift that much, you certainly will want to in order to enjoy what this motor has to offer on the second half of the tach.


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    bluelines:
    SciFrog:

    Who seriously cares about the fuel usage on a manual limited edition overpriced 911?

    Porsche, I guess Smiley

    They have to keep the whole fleet at a minimum possible fuel consumption in order to respect  their allowed pollution quotas . Maybe they take it to that extreme , the even the R has to be as low as possible Smiley


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    They don't make enough of the R to affect the average fuel consumption  

    Also I doubt the mileage numbers are based on driving in second. They could bunch 1-4 much closer and still get mileage in 5 and 6.  Higher revs gives an excellent opportunity to reduce the final drive. If you hit just over 60 mph in second it would be a much quicker car and that gear would be more useful.  I spend an inordinate amount of time simulating F1 races and much of my time is spent set up gearing for each track. The goal is to be in the sweet spot of torque coming out of the majority of corners regardless of the gear and speed of the car.  With such a large spread in gears it becomes less likely that you will find yourself shifting into a sweet spot. Gearing is huge and especially on the street where speeds are so much lower.  To run higher speeds in second than a four speed 911 Turbo used to is ridiculous.  You can bet that when the Turbo got six or even five speeds that the final drive was reduced significantly  

    The cynic in me does not believe for a minute that they are concerned about mileage but rather in preserving the natural speed order of the various models.  That still does not explain the R and why the GT3 has a much more closely spaced gear set.  Maybe they think they are doing manual users a favor by not shifting as many times vs the PDK?  Who knows. At any rate the gearing for the Cayman and Boxster is ridiculous. PDK or manual. This is clearly a case of protecting the 911 speed advantage. 

    As a manual driver I would want a shorter final drive just to save the clutch wear and tear.  It like taking off in second the way they have it geared. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Leawood911:

    If you hit just over 60 mph in second it would be a much quicker car and that gear would be more useful.

    That would make 2nd gear feel almost like first gear and WAY lower than you think (would be a ridiculous shift from any useable first gear ratio).  You can't bunch 1-4 really low and close and then retain any ability to pull in 5th gear - the car would bog down horribly at those speeds - you need high revs (HP) to overcome wind resistance in the higher gears (Torque alone works only at low speeds).

    You have to remember that this engine revs 2,000 rpm higher than your Turbo which may be skewing your thinking on this.

    The perfect gearing (with only 6 gears) for the R would still have 2nd gear run over 70 mph, imo.  And it would feel VERY lively like that.

    Trust me, I love low gearing!  My 73 911 track car was custom geared for 65mph at 7,000 rpm and that is really low.  Having the same speed at 8,800 would feel annoying.


    --

     

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Sixty was a bit slow. I agree. But 70 is certainly more reasonable than 90 in second. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Leawood911:

    They don't make enough of the R to affect the average fuel consumption  

    Perhaps true; however, if this transmission was developed for 991.2 GT3 variant then fuel economy would become a concern.   The standards are becoming very constrictive for the automakers and Porsche is viewed as one of the more profligate makers, hence, part of the reason why the 991 has an increased footprint profile as its larger size means less restrictive fuel economy goals.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    CGX car nut:
    Leawood911:

    They don't make enough of the R to affect the average fuel consumption  

    Perhaps true; however, if this transmission was developed for 991.2 GT3 variant then fuel economy would become a concern.   The standards are becoming very constrictive for the automakers and Porsche is viewed as one of the more profligate makers, hence, part of the reason why the 991 has an increased footprint profile as its larger size means less restrictive fuel economy goals.

    This is a good point.  But I also wonder how much pressure is put on, mainly in Germany, to have high top speeds (ostensibly due to A-bahn use) thus a big spread in gears to allow this.  Maybe less on RT, but would not many in Germany scream if Porsche released a model with say, 40 kph slower top speed, to facilitate more sensible low speed gearing?  


    --

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Grant, is your dealer going to give you an allocation? If so, that would be great because you are in love with the R.


    --

     

    Of little, to make much: That is the dream of a human life.

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    nberry:

    Grant, is your dealer going to give you an allocation? If so, that would be great because you are in love with the R.


    --

     

    Of little, to make much: That is the dream of a human life.

     

    Don't think so, but I'm #1 for 991.2 GT3 with manual...


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Leawood911:

    They don't make enough of the R to affect the average fuel consumption  

    Also I doubt the mileage numbers are based on driving in second. They could bunch 1-4 much closer and still get mileage in 5 and 6.  Higher revs gives an excellent opportunity to reduce the final drive. If you hit just over 60 mph in second it would be a much quicker car and that gear would be more useful.  I spend an inordinate amount of time simulating F1 races and much of my time is spent set up gearing for each track. The goal is to be in the sweet spot of torque coming out of the majority of corners regardless of the gear and speed of the car.  With such a large spread in gears it becomes less likely that you will find yourself shifting into a sweet spot. Gearing is huge and especially on the street where speeds are so much lower.  To run higher speeds in second than a four speed 911 Turbo used to is ridiculous.  You can bet that when the Turbo got six or even five speeds that the final drive was reduced significantly  

    The cynic in me does not believe for a minute that they are concerned about mileage but rather in preserving the natural speed order of the various models.  That still does not explain the R and why the GT3 has a much more closely spaced gear set.  Maybe they think they are doing manual users a favor by not shifting as many times vs the PDK?  Who knows. At any rate the gearing for the Cayman and Boxster is ridiculous. PDK or manual. This is clearly a case of protecting the 911 speed advantage. 

    As a manual driver I would want a shorter final drive just to save the clutch wear and tear.  It like taking off in second the way they have it geared. 

    I think you said gt3 has a much closer gear set, please confirm, do we have shift charts?  Is RS close like gt3?

    i ask because here is reality

    usa R  $384  usd, in NZ 340 usd

    USA gt3 Rs $275 usd, in NZ not available  is Rs geared as low as gt3?

    usa Gt3 150-160 used, in NZ all sold

    if R is geared higher than gt3, wtf would a canyon slammer pay up?

    if Rs is low geared, sun is leaNing USA rs

    love your advice

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    991.1 GT3 and RS are both geared about the same.  RS has lower Ring and Pinion, designed to offset the larger 21" rear wheels.  The net difference is that the RS is very slightly taller geared (<1%, I think).  Both PDK-S boxes are very aggressively geared (permitted by the 9k or 8.8k redlines).  As well as can be expected with 7 gears and near 200 mph Vmax...


    --

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


     
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