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    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    Excellent.... excellent.... excellent test report! Lots of thanks Carlos! Enjoyed reading it and got all the informations I would have like to know!

    Thanks!


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    Thanks! It was well worth the time if you guys found it interesting and usefull! :)
    --


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    Amazing review, Carlos !!!  Smiley

    Thank you so much, you put a lot of work in it, impressive !!!  Smiley

    I will post mine this evening, so tomorrow we can start arguing about the various impressions of the different reviews so far. Smiley My conclusion btw. is the same as yours: The 991 is more of a revolution than evolution of the 997.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    Awesome write up Carlos kiss, enjoyed it immensely.


    --
    Happy Driving

    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    Gracias Carlos ... Great report!
    --

     

    2011 Turbo S Cabriolet Guards Red/2tone Black Cream
    2006 Cayman S with goodies
    2005 Nissan Patrol 4.8
    2007 Toyota Hilux Bulletproof 


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    Carlos, i don't know what kind of job you do, but from what i read and saw, you can start as a jounalist.


    --

     997 GT3,Cayenne S, Cooper S & VW Cross Polo


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    Cram:

    Carlos, i don't know what kind of job you do, but from what i read and saw, you can start as a jounalist.

    Carlos is somebody who does a job right. Always. Smiley

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    RC:
    Cram:

    Carlos, i don't know what kind of job you do, but from what i read and saw, you can start as a jounalist.

    Carlos is somebody who does a job right. Always. Smiley

     

    Hi Carlos,

    Thanks for the nice and very good report. You really write very good about evertthing - also the negative points which other wouldnt mention - of course mainly its positive..thats good...but nobody is perfect..neither a 991 nor a 997. Your report is so much better than these "paid journalist" reports.

    Your pictures are also very good -I wish I had the same photographer skills...mine are simply terrible..

    When I saw one of your pictures - one thing came back to my mind that I already saw during the 991 presentation..3 buttons for 1 sunroof..thats complete overkill..Smiley..if I remember the 993 had 1 button for at least 2 sunroof functions..

    @RC: you stated the car is a revolution..when I read Carlos conlusion I somehow get the feeling that the 991 spark didnt ignite in him...at least he doesnt have this feeling of immediately tunring in his 997- correct? A bit like Gnils report. Using the word Revolution...well thats a big word...a GT2RS is a revolution..or a Mclaren..but a "normal" 911?Smiley. I havent driven the car..so maybe thats why ..but since I know for example the performance of 997 GT2 -I doubt that I 991 with 400hp will "shock" Smileyme.

    That the 991 is more comfortable, a bit more economical..no doubt. For me, Revolutions are something form the past..Smiley..before the Mclaren came out there was so much rumour it would revolutionise the car industry..well - what has it done? Nothing..An "old school" 997 (GT2RS)..with nor carbon chassis, is even lighter..and can beat it probably too. The fact that a 991 can be lighter than a Mclaren..well - thats a small revolution - and when I saw that the new M5 weights still 2 tons than Im really wondering what other manufacturers are doing. Porsche is still markte leader when it comes to weight - and this is already the case since 30-40 years now. Well done..other still havent learnt the less apparently..Smiley


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    Thank you Carlos for such a well written and thorough report kiss kiss

    I made sure to have lots of time in front of me to read it attentively.  You have put a great amount of your time to come up with this excellent and specially factual test.

    I am sure it will inspire lots of Rennteamers  for their choices in options or on the 991.

    And the presentation with it 's great pics made it just so pleasant to read kiss

    Long live the 911 Smiley


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    Wow, way to take it to an entire next level in car reviews. Owner and test drive reviews were already top notch on RT, but this takes some kind of annual "review" medal. Seriously, loved every bit of it! Very well written and beautiful pictures as well. That is just fantastic kiss


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    I can't speak for Carlos (though I think that if his dealer would offer a free of cost exchange, he would take it Smiley)  but in my opinion, the 991 is a revolution and not an evolution of the 911. It looks the same but just take one for a ride for a day or two, even with winter tires and you'll be positively surprised. If not...well...to each his own I guess. Smiley

    For the very first time, I would like to use the word perfection in a 911 review. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

     

    Thanks you all for your words, I have lots of respect for your opinions so they mean a lot from coming you guys!  Smiley

    GTlover:

    @RC: you stated the car is a revolution..when I read Carlos conlusion I somehow get the feeling that the 991 spark didnt ignite in him...at least he doesnt have this feeling of immediately tunring in his 997- correct? A bit like Gnils report. Using the word Revolution...well thats a big word...a GT2RS is a revolution..or a Mclaren..but a "normal" 911?Smiley. I havent driven the car..so maybe thats why ..but since I know for example the performance of 997 GT2 -I doubt that I 991 with 400hp will "shock" Smileyme.

    That the 991 is more comfortable, a bit more economical..no doubt. For me, Revolutions are something form the past..Smiley..before the Mclaren came out there was so much rumour it would revolutionise the car industry..well - what has it done? Nothing..An "old school" 997 (GT2RS)..with nor carbon chassis, is even lighter..and can beat it probably too. The fact that a 991 can be lighter than a Mclaren..well - thats a small revolution - and when I saw that the new M5 weights still 2 tons than Im really wondering what other manufacturers are doing. Porsche is still markte leader when it comes to weight - and this is already the case since 30-40 years now. Well done..other still havent learnt the less apparently..Smiley

     

    Hi GTlover,

    I was actually quite impressed with the 991, there are some things that I would have done differently but overall they are details compared to what they got right IMO which is were it counts, it is the pinnacle of engineering, how they were able to take the 911 chassis to such a level of effciciency in handling was something I did not expect, and at the same time they made that performance and handling more readily accesible to the everyday driver because its also more noble and balanced, also they were able to create a Dr.Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde, two cars in one, it can be the most comfortable, great milage, all the confort creatures, green, etc. while at the same it can turn into the best handling 911 and very sporty. This is Porsche's everyday usability and reliability that no other car can do.

    There is definately some revolution in the 991 as RC says, I haven't seen such an evolutionary jump since the 993->996, and in this case most all for better unlike the 996.

    And this is just the Carrera, use this platform for the Turbo for example and the potential is enormous, I don't see Ferrari, Lambo, Mac, etc having an answer. Also a GT3 based on this chassis and technology is going to be a serious track performer in the hands of its owners, more than the 996GT3 or 997GT3 ever was compared to its competition, and if the manage a S-PDK for it then even more so.

     


    --


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    Carlos from Spain:

    samil.jpg

    This picture alone deserves it's own thread entitled: "Best Unofficial Photograph of a 991".  The car looks like an iron fist in a velvet glove that could rip your head off just sitting there...

    Bravo Carlos!

     


    --


    Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    Carlos,

    thanks for the awesome review! very insightful, the new car sounds very promising. 

    Smiley


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    GTlover:
    @RC: you stated the car is a revolution..when I read Carlos conlusion I somehow get the feeling that the 991 spark didnt ignite in him..

    The problem is that it is indeed a 'revolution' not evolution, as RC says and Carlos review confirms. It is a different car, with a different feeling. It is a better performer, but different. The 11 feeling is gone. That is the problem.

    I have been chastised here by saying this, but all along I said the car would be terrific. Handling, performance improved. But in a work of art, there are often character flaws that should never be improved upon...

    Do you want an improved, higher performer, cushier, refined platform? Go ahead get the 991. And I am not talking style, longer (Jag-like), busy front (Audi/Panamera-like), Aston-back-like, hideous sunroof... Will this me-too style change meets Ferry's test of time?

    Yes, a revolution, or as I stated, an inflection point (a critical change with no return) in the 911 development. Thats is what I have been saying all along.


    --

    _________________________________________________________________ 

    "Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    ADias:

    The problem is that it is indeed a 'revolution' not evolution, as RC says and Carlos review confirms. It is a different car, with a different feeling. It is a better performer, but different. The 11 feeling is gone. 

    Tony, I did not say that, the 11 feeling is not gone, just drive it. Its like if you just want to find faults in the 991 and you interpret everything you read to fit that.

    The 991 just evolved into what it needs to be in order to guarantee the 911 continue to be the sportscar of reference and for it to have a future. If Porsche would of just done a "facelift" to the 997's chassis and hardware, the 911 would be in serious trouble in just a few years and continuing any futher in that rute would finish it off for good by the next generation. This is something we need to understand and not stand to close to the tree that we canot see the entire forest.

    Our 997 with its electronic suspensions, its automatic transmission option, its electronic stability nanny, its variable ratio steering, its 1500Kg weight, water cooled engine, etc. has absolutely nothing in comon with the original 911 concept, not more than the 991 anyway. If you want that then get a Singer.

    With each generation it has evolved departing gradually as it need to, to adapt to the times and the drivers, just look at the huge huge departure from the previous generation that the 996 was, I mean if you want to talk about an inflection point thats it, and yet the 997 that you so hold pure is simply based on a 996.

    Anyway, I don't want to go over this again and again personally, just wanted to say that after driving it I can say that the 11 feeling is not gone at all, not the contrary. This whole aregument will be long forgotten in a few years, until 7 years from now in which it will appear again... except it will be some 991 owners taking the role of some of the 997 owners of now. 

    BTW, the 991 evolution got me thinking on the Boxster and Cayman, if they do the same thing to them (same engineers so...), its not going to have any rivals in its class either.


    --


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    ADias:
    GTlover:
    @RC: you stated the car is a revolution..when I read Carlos conlusion I somehow get the feeling that the 991 spark didnt ignite in him..

    The problem is that it is indeed a 'revolution' not evolution, as RC says and Carlos review confirms. It is a different car, with a different feeling. It is a better performer, but different. The 11 feeling is gone. That is the problem.

    I have been chastised here by saying this, but all along I said the car would be terrific. Handling, performance improved. But in a work of art, there are often character flaws that should never be improved upon...

    Do you want an improved, higher performer, cushier, refined platform? Go ahead get the 991. And I am not talking style, longer (Jag-like), busy front (Audi/Panamera-like), Aston-back-like, hideous sunroof... Will this me-too style change meets Ferry's test of time?

    Yes, a revolution, or as I stated, an inflection point (a critical change with no return) in the 911 development. Thats is what I have been saying all along.

    Hi Adias,

    I fully agree with you..if the new 991 drives like an Aston or any other car..then 911 feeling is gone. As said, for me, turning in my 997 GT3 and GT2 for a 991S is out of the question..

    I would rather wait for the 991 GT3...but again - I would only see it as an additional option..if..

    Talking about revolution, yes, the 991 drives better..no doubt about that..but I would like to remind agian that sport auto tested the best 991S available with PDCC etc at 7:44..the 997S was 7:50..and the 997 was 17sec faster in the wet !!!. What would have been the time without PDCC of the 991...that would be scary to think about..for the 991..

    If I drive the 991S...and if I would get out of saying its way better..more comfortable, a bit faster etc...I would still say to myself.."OK..calm down...its only 6sec faster than the 997S..."..as Im a very rational person...I would not be in a position to talk about a revolution..


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    Carlos from Spain:

     

    Thanks you all for your words, I have lots of respect for your opinions so they mean a lot from coming you guys!  Smiley

    GTlover:

    @RC: you stated the car is a revolution..when I read Carlos conlusion I somehow get the feeling that the 991 spark didnt ignite in him...at least he doesnt have this feeling of immediately tunring in his 997- correct? A bit like Gnils report. Using the word Revolution...well thats a big word...a GT2RS is a revolution..or a Mclaren..but a "normal" 911?Smiley. I havent driven the car..so maybe thats why ..but since I know for example the performance of 997 GT2 -I doubt that I 991 with 400hp will "shock" Smileyme.

    That the 991 is more comfortable, a bit more economical..no doubt. For me, Revolutions are something form the past..Smiley..before the Mclaren came out there was so much rumour it would revolutionise the car industry..well - what has it done? Nothing..An "old school" 997 (GT2RS)..with nor carbon chassis, is even lighter..and can beat it probably too. The fact that a 991 can be lighter than a Mclaren..well - thats a small revolution - and when I saw that the new M5 weights still 2 tons than Im really wondering what other manufacturers are doing. Porsche is still markte leader when it comes to weight - and this is already the case since 30-40 years now. Well done..other still havent learnt the less apparently..Smiley

     

    Hi GTlover,

    I was actually quite impressed with the 991, there are some things that I would have done differently but overall they are details compared to what they got right IMO which is were it counts, it is the pinnacle of engineering, how they were able to take the 911 chassis to such a level of effciciency in handling was something I did not expect, and at the same time they made that performance and handling more readily accesible to the everyday driver because its also more noble and balanced, also they were able to create a Dr.Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde, two cars in one, it can be the most comfortable, great milage, all the confort creatures, green, etc. while at the same it can turn into the best handling 911 and very sporty. This is Porsche's everyday usability and reliability that no other car can do.

    There is definately some revolution in the 991 as RC says, I haven't seen such an evolutionary jump since the 993->996, and in this case most all for better unlike the 996.

    And this is just the Carrera, use this platform for the Turbo for example and the potential is enormous, I don't see Ferrari, Lambo, Mac, etc having an answer. Also a GT3 based on this chassis and technology is going to be a serious track performer in the hands of its owners, more than the 996GT3 or 997GT3 ever was compared to its competition, and if the manage a S-PDK for it then even more so.

     

    HI Carlos,

    Thanks..for the words..

    Youre saying the 991 is a bigger jump then 996 vs 993...really?

    Coming to the 991 turbo, GT3 etc..well we dont know the performance levels...but I doubt that the tubo will be at Mclaren level, same goes for the GT3..

    The current 997 Turbo S did 7:44 at Sport Auto..so if the 991 turbo can take off 6-8 secs. that would be already very good..in fact it would be better than F458..thats enough.

    PS: I never understood why Porsche was talking about a new 458 contender car..the 997 generations were already to keep up with this ..and the 991 turbo, GT3 coming up..I dont see a reason why we should be ashamed of the performances of Porsche..Smiley


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    GTlover:

    Talking about revolution, yes, the 991 drives better..no doubt about that..but I would like to remind agian that sport auto tested the best 991S available with PDCC etc at 7:44..the 997S was 7:50..and the 997 was 17sec faster in the wet !!!. What would have been the time without PDCC of the 991...that would be scary to think about..for the 991..

    As I recall that issue was solved, the track temperature was very different from one to the other explaining the wet performance. Also if we are talking about handling mainly, you need to use the Hockenheim test of the SuperTest and not the Nurgburgring time, and the difference between the 991 and 997 is HUGE, in fact it was just as fast as a 997 in its GT3 which basically shows the difference between the two platforms.


    --


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    GTlover:

    HI Carlos,

    Youre saying the 991 is a bigger jump then 996 vs 993...really?

    Coming to the 991 turbo, GT3 etc..well we dont know the performance levels...but I doubt that the tubo will be at Mclaren level, same goes for the GT3..

    No not bigger jump necesarily, but different type of jump, a better jump.

    After having driven the 991 I'm fairly confident that this platform will yield a Turbo and GT3 far better than the current competition. Its on another level than the 997, and the 997 TurboS and  GT3 already held its own against thes... the 991 will be no contest.


    --


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    Great review, thanks kiss


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    Carlos from Spain:
    GTlover:

    Talking about revolution, yes, the 991 drives better..no doubt about that..but I would like to remind agian that sport auto tested the best 991S available with PDCC etc at 7:44..the 997S was 7:50..and the 997 was 17sec faster in the wet !!!. What would have been the time without PDCC of the 991...that would be scary to think about..for the 991..

    As I recall that issue was solved, the track temperature was very different from one to the other explaining the wet performance. Also if we are talking about handling mainly, you need to use the Hockenheim test of the SuperTest and not the Nurgburgring time, and the difference between the 991 and 997 is HUGE, in fact it was just as fast as a 997 in its GT3 which basically shows the difference between the two platforms.

    Hi Carlos,

    Well yes and no I would say - not wanting to start here the discussion of the sport auto test.

    1) the slightly lower temperature cannot be an exccuse for the 17sec...17secs on a track of 1,5km lengh..on the ring this would have added up to 2 min !!!. The 997 GT2 was also tested there in November..so this excuse cannot count (for me)

    2) Hockenheim: yes..true...but also remember the 991S had race setup suspension..a suspension you will not see as a normal customer

    Again my question was, what would the 991S have done without PDCC..Porsche says its woth 4-6 seconds..if you add these 4-6 to the 7:44 you end up with the time of the 997S !!!

    Lets see what the 991 turbos and GT3 do..but to be honest, I "was not amused" with the Sport Auto results. What a manufacturer proclaims is one thing..what is then proven in reality by an independent source is something else..

    Anyway..Smiley


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    Great job Carlos!!! 5 stars!!!

    Actually this is the first review I read from biginning to the end.  It is not like others out there copy each other.

    Mine will delivery till April/May.  Damn. can't wait any longer.....

     


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    I just "unlocked" my short(er) review for commenting, I actually finished it yesterday but Rennteam somehow collapsed around 3 am this morning and I wasn't able to access the forum anymore. yes

    My review is much shorter than intended because Carlos did such a marvelous job and many of his findings actually are similar to mine, so I didn't want to bore you with details by repeating stuff allover again.

    Enjoy and if you have questions, don't be shy. 

    http://www.rennteam.com/forum/thread/20291912/Porsche_991_Carrera_S__Review_Short/page1.html

    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    Carlos from Spain:
    ADias:

    The problem is that it is indeed a 'revolution' not evolution, as RC says and Carlos review confirms. It is a different car, with a different feeling. It is a better performer, but different. The 11 feeling is gone. 

    Tony, I did not say that, the 11 feeling is not gone, just drive it. Its like if you just want to find faults in the 991 and you interpret everything you read to fit that.

    The 991 just evolved into what it needs to be in order to guarantee the 911 continue to be the sportscar of reference and for it to have a future. If Porsche would of just done a "facelift" to the 997's chassis and hardware, the 911 would be in serious trouble in just a few years and continuing any futher in that rute would finish it off for good by the next generation. This is something we need to understand and not stand to close to the tree that we canot see the entire forest.

    Our 997 with its electronic suspensions, its automatic transmission option, its electronic stability nanny, its variable ratio steering, its 1500Kg weight, water cooled engine, etc. has absolutely nothing in comon with the original 911 concept, not more than the 991 anyway. If you want that then get a Singer.

    With each generation it has evolved departing gradually as it need to, to adapt to the times and the drivers, just look at the huge huge departure from the previous generation that the 996 was, I mean if you want to talk about an inflection point thats it, and yet the 997 that you so hold pure is simply based on a 996.

    Anyway, I don't want to go over this again and again personally, just wanted to say that after driving it I can say that the 11 feeling is not gone at all, not the contrary. This whole aregument will be long forgotten in a few years, until 7 years from now in which it will appear again... except it will be some 991 owners taking the role of some of the 997 owners of now. 

    BTW, the 991 evolution got me thinking on the Boxster and Cayman, if they do the same thing to them (same engineers so...), its not going to have any rivals in its class either.


    --

      

     

    Carlos: most international car journalist reviews I read say the car feels different. The classic pendulum effect is much diminished. Chris Harris slid the car, on a road I know well, as if he was driving an E63 AMG. Of course he will say it's great, the next best thing, as it will perform better (and it does), even with less skilled drivers. The increase in front track and WB made that happen - engineering dimensional changes do not lie, at least not to me. It will perform better, but the 11 soul is gone. I may still buy one, but reality is what it is. 
     
    Your last paragraph re the mid-engine cars is interesting. The 991 approaches now the dynamics of a Cayman. And yes, the same changes will further balance future Caymans. But... If I wanted a mid-engine platform I would get one instead.
     
    At the end of the day people's opinions do not matter to those who think differently and all is good. Choice, options, are very good things.
     

    --

    _________________________________________________________________ 

    "Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    The 911 feeling is not gone, it just got perfect and comfortable. It is difficult to explain without actually driving the car but in my opinion, the 991 gained a lot from these changes and didn't loose much. Drive it at the limit (I was lucky to be able to do that because of the winter tires on the second car... indecision) and it is 100% 911. Just make sure you survive it. smiley Yes, it feels softer, more comfortable, more refined, more connected to the street, more like a perfectly fitting glove, very likely like any lame Audi or BMW sedan out there and I understand that die hard 911 lovers probably don't really want to hear these words in connection with the 911 but in my opinion, these changes have catapulted the 911 (991) into the 21st century. Finally. It is the same step as from the 993 to the 996, without kidding.

    I still think that these changes also made the 991 more dangerous than previous 911 models, it allows the driver to be much faster with less effort. This can be very deceiving if the driver is unexperienced. It is still a 911... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    RC:

    I still think that these changes also made the 991 more dangerous than previous 911 models, it allows the driver to be much faster with less effort. This can be very deceiving if the driver is unexperienced. It is still a 911... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

    I agree on that . One can drive the car faster , and much easier . It is not scary . As the old weight feeling at the back has been diminished so much. BUt........ the car snaps now easier ! Not that it snaps at a lower speed, or g-force then before, on the opposite actually, but as the car is much more confidence inspiring, you tend to go much faster and as the car is easier to drive, you reach the limits easier and then suddenly the back goes Smiley

    Before you had to go trough a ' process' of getting used to the heavy tail and it's dancing before you started to loose the back.

    I bet there will be more accidents from the new drivers as before.


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    Carlos reviews are always outstanding and this one is as good if not better.

    I may have missed it but Carlos are you planning to buy a 991?


    --

     


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    nberry:

    I may have missed it but Carlos are you planning to buy a 991?

    Hi Nick, no, I had no plans of buying a 991S right now even before going into the test, but maybe next year since I liked it. 


    --


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    Many thanks carlos, i'm driving the R8 for one year now since buying a 911 cab for app. 160K is no option for my budget.

    The R8 is great compared to my 997S, but i'm already counting months to buy a goodpriced 991 Cab in another 2 years.


    --

    965 3.3turbo/  993 targa / 996 cab /997S cab

    Audi R8  //  Audi A5 S-line 3.0tdi Quattro/ RR 4.4i


     
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