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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    WAY:
    The worst thing would be that they announce a fix, then for another car to burn down. That would be unrecoverable from a PR stand point. So they need to take their time and get this right. But I'm sure I'm not the only potential buyer who has lost confidence and am no longer interested in the short term.

    It is the same 9A1 engine used since 2008 on the Carrera models without known problems,  but modified for the GT3. So they will have to look at the modifications, carry out component tests and possibly redesign parts (e.g. new bespoke crankshaft)  that could withstand 9000rpm instead of 7000+ rpm.  I suspect that the upcoming RS should have lots of upgraded and costlier parts and these could find their way into the normal GT3.

    Alternatively, it could be just a bunch of faulty parts from a supplier.

    The GT3 is a great 911 and I wouldn't remove it from my wish list in order to go elsewhere. I would just be patient.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    As I see it, if after 5 years the 9A1 based motor hasn't made it's way into the cup car then it doesn't belong in the GT3/RS models... I'm pretty sure that 5 years would have been long enough to evolve this motor into a motorsport unit if it was in fact up to the task...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    As I understand it, you can't rebuild a 9A1 in the same way you do with Mezger, so how can it possibly make it into a Cup car? 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I remember reading that Porsche have kept the Mezger pending new regulations for the racing class the 911s are competing.

    But I believe they cannot keep the Mezger forever if it is not homologated on current models. So, if the upcoming RS is powered by a version of the 9A1, this should form the basis for the racing engine.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    reginos:

    I remember reading that Porsche have kept the Mezger pending new regulations for the racing class the 911s are competing.

    But I believe they cannot keep the Mezger forever if it is not homologated on current models. So, if the upcoming RS is powered by a version of the 9A1, this should form the basis for the racing engine.

     Hi Reginos,

    Well, I think spyderidol answered that  question once here..a manufactuerer could use an engine for many years after it has ceased in normal street cars - so the argument with the 991 GT3RS isnt logic in my eyes.

    But I suspect something else - they decided 2-3 years ago to come up with a 960 around 2015 that will compete in racing -and will end all 911 racing  in the GT class. Until then they wanted to use  the "cheap option" - means:

    a) 991 RSR: will have to continue by all means with the old engine (which is -despite the criticsm - still competitive) - until the 991 will be replaced by a 960 - which -. given that the 991 RSR is still competetive destroy all the competition on the track - good decision by Porsche here in the end..

    b) furture 991 GT3 will use therefore an upgraded engine from the 991 series (makes no sense to design complete new engine for 3000 cars)

    Both a + b options were for sure the most cost efficient..but I fear that Posche wont be able to make it. On both fronts they are loosing ground..in the racing they still have a good engine..but rear end  powered cars are at a disadvantage..in the regular cars they are loosing ground because of a crappy engine. What a paradox - but in the end  it was a wrong strategic decision - and like with all wrong strategic decisions - you cant catch in in a short period. I predict that we wont see 991 GT3s back on the road for 2-3 months..but lets see. I hope it wont be the case for those of you who ordered the car.

    By no means I want to use a "dooms day scenario"..but look: - when was there for a last time such a "recall" in the automotive industry where owners had to stop the car immediately? Its not only about the engine here..

    Lets see..


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    FWIW, 45% of the cars from 2008 to 2010 we subjected to a recall of some sort. I believe BMW in 2010 had stop sale edict.

    My hope is this is an easy fix. Major surgery on the engine probably will not cut it with me. I may move on.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    1393192332244image.jpg

    Missing my car already...


    --

     

    2011 Porsche 911 [997.2] Carrera 4S (Platinum Silver) {Sold}
    2013 Porsche Panamera GTS [970.1] (Basalt Black) {Sold}
    2013 Porsche 911 [991.1] Carrera S (GT Silver)
    2014 Porsche 911 [991.1] GT3 (Agate Grey
     
    “The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively” ― Bob Marley

    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    1393192588239image.jpg

    wink Thank God I still have my trustworthy, never failed me 991 Carrera S to drive while my other baby gets fixed!

    side note to all the haters out there:  do not lie to yourself, the guys that criticize this car are just envious that they could not get their hands on one, this is the best looking 911 ever made, and if you have never driven it you should shut your mouth and not talk badly about this amazing machine...  In my opinion this recall will only add to the lore and legend of the car! It's so hot it burns itself! I feel as if I am driving a completely different car compared to the Carrera S, and the sound is glorious!  

    Three weeks ago a girl walks by my car and she says "that is sexy", I look up to her and I say "the car or the owner?", she smiled and said "the owner is just OK" FML   


    --

     

    2011 Porsche 911 [997.2] Carrera 4S (Platinum Silver) {Sold}
    2013 Porsche Panamera GTS [970.1] (Basalt Black) {Sold}
    2013 Porsche 911 [991.1] Carrera S (GT Silver)
    2014 Porsche 911 [991.1] GT3 (Agate Grey
     
    “The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively” ― Bob Marley

    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    ag23:

    1393192588239image.jpg

    wink Thank God I still have my trustworthy, never failed me 991 Carrera S to drive while my other baby gets fixed!

    side note to all the haters out there:  do not lie to yourself, the guys that criticize this car are just envious that they could not get their hands on one, this is the best looking 911 ever made, and if you have never driven it you should shut your mouth and not talk badly about this amazing machine...  In my opinion this recall will only add to the lore and legend of the car! It's so hot it burns itself! I feel as if I am driving a completely different car compared to the Carrera S, and the sound is glorious!  

    Three weeks ago a girl walks by my car and she says "that is sexy", I look up to her and I say "the car or the owner?", she smiled and said "the owner is just OK" FML   

    Haha doesn't matter how good looking the owner is, it isn't going to be as good looking as the car!  As for being jealous, I certainly am! But until I am fully satisfied that issues have been resolved and give it some time for evidence of it, I will not be ordering one. 

    Btw, really good to see a grey GT3. I love grey Porsches. My 997.2 is the only grey GT3 I know of in my city. 

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    In response to GTlover's suggestion that a racing program based on the 960 could take over in 2015, that seems very soon given that, to my knowledge, there have not even been prototypes of this model spotted. ?? 


    --

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    A racing program based on the 960 mid-engine Porsche will not enhance the 911 Porsche racing brand. it will do the opposite.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    throt:

    Below a letter from Porsche to a GT3 owner. Posted on another forum.

    Your Porsche XXX
    Porsche VIN: XXXX

    Dear Mr Customer,

    Media reports are currently in circulation regarding engine problems that may cause a fire on new 911 GT3 vehicles and we apologise unreservedly for the fact that you may have learned of this from a third party rather than directly from Porsche.

    At this point, we would like to update you on the situation and provide you with additional information about our current findings and how we intend to proceed. 

    In Europe, two vehicles were found to have engine damage - the crankcase was significantly damaged. Leaking engine oil ignited on the hot engine components, causing the vehicles to catch fire. This did not cause an accident or result in personal injury of any kind.

    Since safety is the top priority at Porsche, the vehicles were examined on-site by specialists immediately after the damage occurred and were then analysed at the factory by Porsche engineers.
    On 11.02.2014, Porsche decided to stop delivery of the 911 GT3 until further notice.

    Porsche is working intensively on analysing the engine problems to ensure that the cause is fully understood and corrected for the long-term. This work is extensive and time-consuming and regrettably may take some time. 

    For safety reasons, Porsche strongly advises you not to drive your vehicle until further notice. 

    We will keep you informed about further progress in this matter and contact you to arrange collection of your vehicle to the Centre should any identified work need to be carried out. 

    The required transportation of the vehicle, storage of the vehicle in the Porsche Centre and any required repair measures that are carried out will of course be free of charge.

    Porsche is critically aware that because of this situation, we have failed to meet your expectations and we realise this may impact on your participation in motor racing events. 

    We are currently working on an appropriate compensation offer for any inconvenience that this may cause.

    We will continue to keep you informed about new findings, however should you have any immediate questions please contact your Porsche Centre directly or alternatively call the Porsche Customer Assistance Centre on 0118 9191740.

    We again apologise for the delay in communication and inconvenience and thank you for your understanding.

    Hi Guys....

    2/3 of this letter is correct. From a very credible source, the information on this letter  is accurate up to the compensation portion which appears to be added. Porsche never mentioned thing about the compensation and usually won't publicly. 

    I dropped my car at sunset Porsche last Thursday after receiving a call from the service manager, and I was given a Panorama 4S as a loaner. From all indications it will be a while before we get our hands back on our cars.

    Mark


    --
    2008 Porsche  Cayman S Design Edition [987] (Black) - SOLD
    2008 Porsche  Boxster S RS60 Spyder [987] (GT Silver) - SOLD
    2013 Porsche 911 [991] Carrera 4S (Platinum Silver)
    2013 Porsche Boxster S [981] (Sapphire Blue)
    2014 Porsche 911 [991.1] GT3 (Guards Red

    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Yeah, macca reported the same on rennlist.  Good to hear additional confirmation.  Given the quarantine on these cars, return date seems highly speculative. 

    By all accounts several motors have thrown rods.

    Sounds like a CSI episode to track down the failure mechanism, but let's hope they figure it out quickly and get those already produced retrofitted ASAP with a fixed powerplant.


    --

    991 GT3 incoming, 964 Turbo 3.6, E36 M3 ltw S54 conversion, bunch of other stuff


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    ag23:

    1393192588239image.jpg

    wink Thank God I still have my trustworthy, never failed me 991 Carrera S to drive while my other baby gets fixed!

    side note to all the haters out there:  do not lie to yourself, the guys that criticize this car are just envious that they could not get their hands on one, this is the best looking 911 ever made, and if you have never driven it you should shut your mouth and not talk badly about this amazing machine...  In my opinion this recall will only add to the lore and legend of the car! It's so hot it burns itself! I feel as if I am driving a completely different car compared to the Carrera S, and the sound is glorious!  

    Three weeks ago a girl walks by my car and she says "that is sexy", I look up to her and I say "the car or the owner?", she smiled and said "the owner is just OK" FML   

    Nice looking cars.  I have to agree with you, the Carrera S feels completely different compared to the GT3. The sound is out of this world and the way it goes around corners, is a religious experience. Can't wait to get mine back. 
     
    AG23  your profile says your Carrera S  color is GT Silver, but in the picture it appears as Platinum Silver. Reason for my question is that my 991 Carrera 4S is Platinum silver and the color appears to be close match to yours in the picture. See a picture of mine below. I was just curious. 

    1393206301484image.jpg--

    2008 Porsche  Cayman S Design Edition [987] (Black) - SOLD
    2008 Porsche  Boxster S RS60 Spyder [987] (GT Silver) - SOLD
    2013 Porsche 911 [991] Carrera 4S (Platinum Silver)
    2013 Porsche Boxster S [981] (Sapphire Blue)
    2014 Porsche 911 [991.1] GT3 (Guards Red

    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    frayed:

    By all accounts several motors have thrown rods

    Yeah I have heard the same, but it is not confirmed yet. The odd part the cars that had issues have only very few miles on them (less than 90 miles on one of them). Mine almost has 1200 miles on odometer. For the first 1000 miles I have been careful with throttle application, but I have been moderately aggressive for the last 200 miles, and I had no trouble what so ever. One of my friends who has close to 2800 miles on his odometer, have been redlining the engine since 500 miles, and 3 track events and he also had no trouble, yet the cars who had the trouble had hardly any miles on them.  Hopefully it is only isolated to few cars. 


    --
    2008 Porsche  Cayman S Design Edition [987] (Black) - SOLD
    2008 Porsche  Boxster S RS60 Spyder [987] (GT Silver) - SOLD
    2013 Porsche 911 [991] Carrera 4S (Platinum Silver)
    2013 Porsche Boxster S [981] (Sapphire Blue)
    2014 Porsche 911 [991.1] GT3 (Guards Red

    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    mqandil:
    ag23:

    1393192588239image.jpg

    wink Thank God I still have my trustworthy, never failed me 991 Carrera S to drive while my other baby gets fixed!

    side note to all the haters out there:  do not lie to yourself, the guys that criticize this car are just envious that they could not get their hands on one, this is the best looking 911 ever made, and if you have never driven it you should shut your mouth and not talk badly about this amazing machine...  In my opinion this recall will only add to the lore and legend of the car! It's so hot it burns itself! I feel as if I am driving a completely different car compared to the Carrera S, and the sound is glorious!  

    Three weeks ago a girl walks by my car and she says "that is sexy", I look up to her and I say "the car or the owner?", she smiled and said "the owner is just OK" FML   

    Nice looking cars.  I have to agree with you, the Carrera S feels completely different compared to the GT3. The sound is out of this world and the way it goes around corners, is a religious experience. Can't wait to get mine back. 
     
    AG23  your profile says your Carrera S  color is GT Silver, but in the picture it appears as Platinum Silver. Reason for my question is that my 991 Carrera 4S is Platinum silver and the color appears to be close match to yours in the picture. See a picture of mine below. I was just curious. 

    1393206301484image.jpg--

    2008 Porsche  Cayman S Design Edition [987] (Black) - SOLD
    2008 Porsche  Boxster S RS60 Spyder [987] (GT Silver) - SOLD
    2013 Porsche 911 [991] Carrera 4S (Platinum Silver)
    2013 Porsche Boxster S [981] (Sapphire Blue)
    2014 Porsche 911 [991.1] GT3 (Guards Red

    My Carrera S is GT silver, if you look at both cars carefully you will note that GT silver is more bluish/darker and the platinum silver is more champagne colored... It looks beautiful by the way


    --

     

    2011 Porsche 911 [997.2] Carrera 4S (Platinum Silver) {Sold}
    2013 Porsche Panamera GTS [970.1] (Basalt Black) {Sold}
    2013 Porsche 911 [991.1] Carrera S (GT Silver)
    2014 Porsche 911 [991.1] GT3 (Agate Grey
     
    “The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively” ― Bob Marley

    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    WAY:

    As I understand it, you can't rebuild a 9A1 in the same way you do with Mezger, so how can it possibly make it into a Cup car? 

    The block is disposable Way so rather than spending dollars on labour and liners, you just replace it... 

    If the 9A1 could provide more power "reliably", trust me, it would be in their motorsport program after 5 years because as with all other companies, where racing is concerned, they are in it to win...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I agree with you Chris. There is a reason why they have continued to use the Mezger in the race cars. Until they prove that this new engine can be used in the race car, the new GT3 just won't be seen in the same light.

    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    WAY:
    I agree with you Chris. There is a reason why they have continued to use the Mezger in the race cars. Until they prove that this new engine can be used in the race car, the new GT3 just won't be seen in the same light.

    The reason is actually a different one (hint: homologation) but anyway... Smiley

    Guys, I know that some of you want to cancel their order but you shouldn't rush your decision(s). The GT3 is a great car and again, as far as I heard, there have been supplier issues and not engineering issues. Just saying...it is your decision of course and I cannot guarantee that nothing will happen again. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    The reason you believe is not the right one, just different  I have it on very good authority that this isn't the case but neither of us will be able to present evidence on an open forum to prove our point... So wasted argument...

    As for proving that the new metal is engineered to race and last, well Porsche really need to prove it by emulating their achievement at the NBR 24 with a 997.2 RS... Actions really do speak louder then words... Once they're off stop sale and sorted of course 

    If there ever was a car that needed to be 100% and proven to the GT enthusiast following of past, this was it! And to date, they've done a lousy job in the areas of track worthiness and reliability...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    911rox:

    The reason you believe is not the right one, just different  I have it on very good authority that this isn't the case but neither of us will be able to present evidence on an open forum to prove our point... So wasted argument...

    So when did you talk to your friendly Weissach engineer lately? Smiley Smiley

    As for proving that the new metal is engineered to race and last, well Porsche really need to prove it by emulating their achievement at the NBR 24 with a 997.2 RS... Actions really do speak louder then words... Once they're off stop sale and sorted of course 

    If there ever was a car that needed to be 100% and proven to the GT enthusiast following of past, this was it! And to date, they've done a lousy job in the areas of track worthiness and reliability...

    Like I said before, they needed the new engine but motorsport is a bitch, especially regulations. Believe what you want but the new engine isn't bad at all, on the contrary.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    My source is better than a barbeque engineer at Weissach... They've been too busy to chat with... Too busy putting out fires so to speak angry

    Regarding the 9A1, they've been there... To date it hasn't worked out... you'll need to read between the lines... Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    911rox:

    My source is better than a barbeque engineer at Weissach... They've been too busy to chat with... Too busy putting out fires so to speak angry

    Regarding the 9A1, they've been there... To date it hasn't worked out... you'll need to read between the lines... Smiley

    I was metaphorically speaking but if I'd tell you, I'd have to kill you. Smiley

    The 9A1 per se was never intended for racing and the GT3 variant is much more different than it seems. Basically, the 9A1 engine hasn't much in common with the current GT3 engine but thats a different story. Or does the 9A1 engine have a "true" dry sump lubrication?!  Smiley

    Like you said, we can discuss this all day long but we(I) cannot go into details, so this is senseless. 

    All I know is that the GT3 engine is a technical masterpiece and the current setback (like the ones before) has been caused by supplier fault. This cannot (and should not) be an excuse for Porsche but sh.t happens but this doesn't mean the technical design is faulty.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)


    I was metaphorically speaking but if I'd tell you, I'd have to kill you. Smiley

     

    Like you said, we can discuss this all day long but we(I) cannot go into details, so this is senseless. 

    I hear you RC... In the same boat myself Smiley

    And whilst referring to it as the 9A1, it was the GT 3 motor I was referring to... regretfully, to date they don't seem to have given it a specific designation....


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)


    ag23:

    1393192588239image.jpg

    I love the colours you have chosen for your 911s. I love these technical colours on Porsche sportscars.

    Were you intending to keep both or it is temporary until the GT3 is fixed?


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:

    All I know is that the GT3 engine is a technical masterpiece and the current setback (like the ones before) has been caused by supplier fault. This cannot (and should not) be an excuse for Porsche but sh.t happens but this doesn't mean the technical design is faulty.

    IMO if Porsche told the world that the problem was supplier related, there wouldn't be such a significant loss of confidence.

    So, why don't they own up to this fact? Are you sure it is as simple as that?

    People now can suspect everything imaginable and the damage done to the image will take a long time to be erased.

     


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    reginos:
    RC:

    All I know is that the GT3 engine is a technical masterpiece and the current setback (like the ones before) has been caused by supplier fault. This cannot (and should not) be an excuse for Porsche but sh.t happens but this doesn't mean the technical design is faulty.

    IMO if Porsche told the world that the problem was supplier related, there wouldn't be such a significant loss of confidence.

    So, why don't they own up to this fact? Are you sure it is as simple as that?

    People now can suspect everything imaginable and the damage done to the image will take a long time to be erased.

     

    If I would tell you what was wrong with my Panamera Turbo S delivery delay...oh boy...you wouldn't believe it. I made a few hints but I had all the details, you would be surprised. Yes, it was a supplier issue but while I got the details, most customers (I know of) didn't have a clue. I don't know why Porsche isn't more straight forward but maybe they don't want to damage the reputation of the supplier or whatever, I don't have a clue. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    The direct connection of the Porsche sports cars to Motorsport is certainly an important legacy, and of significance to some (?small) percentage of buyers.  However, I wonder if Porsche marketing hasn't successfully persuaded top management that worldwide sales volume of Porsche vehicles is not heavily dependent upon that connection.  In the overall Porsche sales strategy the current GT3 "controversy" is likely a tempest in a teapot. 


    --

    "Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    reginos:
    RC:

    All I know is that the GT3 engine is a technical masterpiece and the current setback (like the ones before) has been caused by supplier fault. This cannot (and should not) be an excuse for Porsche but sh.t happens but this doesn't mean the technical design is faulty.

    IMO if Porsche told the world that the problem was supplier related, there wouldn't be such a significant loss of confidence.

    So, why don't they own up to this fact? Are you sure it is as simple as that?

    People now can suspect everything imaginable and the damage done to the image will take a long time to be erased.

    I think that Porsche took a positive approach by freezing deliveries and recalling the 991 GT3s. While this is an unfortunate event, issues  like this happen to the best engineering companies or where expectation are sky high.

    However (IMHO) the responsibility and image issue is still  with the Porsche product . When you buy a 911 you don`t buy the brakes made by Brembo, lights made by Hella , ecu by Bosch etc , you are always buying a final product made by Porsche. Whether a design issue or a quality control issue , still this is a Porsche problem and its related consequence.

     

     

    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I am sure Porsche are doing many things behind the scenes to resolve the failures and root cause. But look at what happened when Aston Martin did a recall due to what Aston blamed Chinese fake parts - to which the Chinese government reacted badly towards Aston. This is a big risk management exercise for Porsche. 


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive MSport & 2012 x5 - TurboS Cab on Order Mar14. Range Rover V8 on order June14


     
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