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    Re: Ben's case is over

    Quote:
    racerx said: ... I believe the track was totally negligent for the location and angle of that wall. The flag waiver made a mistake, but, if the track had proper run-off, sand traps, and walls designed by people with just a little brain matter no one would have died that day.



    So true.

    This pic from the article says so much in so little space:


    Re: Ben's case is over

    Quote:
    racerx said:
    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Being called "an internet marketing guru", I am sure that Cory Rudl left quite a bit of money for his dear, loving wife - in which case her lawsuit is the more pathetic and sickening.
    But this is not about her making sure that others will be safe in the same circumstances in the future.
    This is about her making a ton of money. Pure and simple.



    You are assuming a lot there doc. An "an internet marketing guru" could also mean a BS artist living on credit and in debt. I have no idea what her financial situation is. If she is well off then perhaps I could see your point more.

    However, there is blame here, like mentioned above, I believe the track was totally negligent for the location and angle of that wall. The flag waiver made a mistake, but, if the track had proper run-off, sand traps, and walls designed by people with just a little brain matter no one would have died that day.



    True, he could have been in debt like Pavarotti, so I admit I have no way of knowing this. Driving a Lambo may be no testament to anything but debt, but it at least says that he had access to considerable means.

    That aside, I agree with Nick that none of us know how we'd react when we lose a loved one. I'm sure most of us would feel a sense of hatred/animosity or despair that only some form of payback would soothe here and now.

    And Nick even suggests that given the opportunity, some would do what they can to exploit the American legal system. True, I'm sure some of us would try to maximize the profit, in an attempt to find solice or justice in that.
    (Im also sure we wouldnt find justice there, but thats a different story).

    All of which proves my point exactly: The system is not only "not perfect" - it has holes big enough to run a truck thru!
    Anything from getting a scratch on your finger to losing a relative in an accident is a good opportunity to rake in. (All in the name of "justice", of course)
    The very fact that a legal system not only permits, but promotes golddigging and milking both the system and other people (if you can afford a lawyer who knows how to milk) from the lamest reasons on this planet, is not only a shame, but a joke.
    While the "judge versus dry cleaner" case is really far out, it is also a sympton of a system that has given up reason and common sense in exchange for greed.

    NOTE: This is NOT an attack on the US as a country, people or system as a whole, but an attack on a specific part of your legal system that in my honest opinion is so f*cked up its beyond words.

    Re: Ben's case is over

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    "...settled for a reported total of approximately $4.5 million. The contributions to the settlement were about 49% from the estate of the driver,..."

    I'm so pissed off right now I'm beyond words, and as a moderator I should set example and better keep what I think about this to myself because its not pretty.



    Carlos, don't be mad. It was all covered by the automobile insurance policy. Ben's wife and estate did not have to pay one nickel. I made sure of that.

    Scifrog I wouldn't be too sure of that.



    Nick,

    I know you often get a lot of crap for your views on here, and we don't always see eye to eye, but what you did for Ben's family is truly honorable. You have my utmost respect.

    Re: Ben's case is over

    Quote:
    Raz (NC) said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    "...settled for a reported total of approximately $4.5 million. The contributions to the settlement were about 49% from the estate of the driver,..."

    I'm so pissed off right now I'm beyond words, and as a moderator I should set example and better keep what I think about this to myself because its not pretty.



    Carlos, don't be mad. It was all covered by the automobile insurance policy. Ben's wife and estate did not have to pay one nickel. I made sure of that.

    Scifrog I wouldn't be too sure of that.



    Nick,

    I know you often get a lot of crap for your views on here, and we don't always see eye to eye, but what you did for Ben's family is truly honorable. You have my utmost respect.



    Raz, thank you.

    Dr. Phil never loss sight of one fact. Juries award damages not the courts. The are comprised of ordinary people like you and me. They make the decision as to what is reasonable given the circumstances. Attorney's only provide the information. They are not bound to accept anything we present or say.

    Hey, have you all noticed I have not beat up on Porsche in a long time. I am being good.

    Re: Ben's case is over

    it says towards the end of the story that mcclellan hopes that porsche and other manufacturers will never again build supercars without electronic stability control . i wonder if this crash has had an effect on porsche with the new GT2 , adding some extra safety that some of us didn't want ?

    Re: Ben's case is over

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Dr. Phil never loss sight of one fact. Juries award damages not the courts. The are comprised of ordinary people like you and me. They make the decision as to what is reasonable given the circumstances. Attorney's only provide the information. They are not bound to accept anything we present or say.

    Hey, have you all noticed I have not beat up on Porsche in a long time. I am being good.



    Nick, it's not the fault of attorneys, They are also merely pawns in a game that awards greed, not fairness or reason.
    That's my objection. Hell no, if you didnt explore/exploit (call it what u want) the system as it is, you wouldnt be doing your job! And I am not blue-eyed enough to believe "in the basic good of my fellow man" when it comes to raking in when possible. Of course ppl will do what they can to exploit eachother and the system IF the system awards such behaviour.
    In Denmark we have the opposite problem: A doctor recently killed a patient by mistake (apparently inserted a syringe the wrong place at the wrong time) and he was found guilty of negligence/malpraactice, whatever the technical term is. In other words it was his fault!
    No disciplinary actions against him and the family were compensated with app.r 3000 $. Yup, thats three thousand dollars for one life.
    This is just as stupid as going to the other extreme.
    Whether the doc should have been punished or not is a totally different debate.

    IMO law is not about truth or justice, but about finding a reasonable and fair compromize.
    There will always be 100 different views on any given lawsuit - and picking the best view as a jury is sometimes close to impossible.
    But picking a punishment or compensation that is within a sane, reasonable and fair distance of common sense should be possible at all times.

    I dont think that part is so difficult.
    Like judge Leonard White played by Morgan Freeman said in "Bonfire of the vanities": Let me tell you what justice is. Justice is the law. And the law is man's feeble attempt to lay down the principles of decency. Decency! And decency isn't a deal, it's not a contract or a hustle or an angle! Decency... decency is what your grandmother taught you. It's in your bones!"

    Halleluja!

    And on a different note:
    Yes, Nick. I for one have noticed your lack of Porsche-bashing recently.
    Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your lord and saviour...or did you by any chance succeed in having Porsche GmbH pay for the settlement?

    Re: Ben's case is over

    Quote:
    nberry said:Hey, have you all noticed I have not beat up on Porsche in a long time. I am being good.



    Its the veggan diet Nick, its making you too weak to even bash Porsche anymore ... a couple of juicy bar-b-q steaks and you will be back to your old self in no time!!

    Re: Ben's case is over

    The results of the settlement stinks of unjust enrichment.

    No one forced the driver and passenger into the CGT. Both were familiar with high performance cars. Both saw the track and its layout. Both knew the track workers were not professionals. Both new the inherent risks of high speeds.

    Even a ignorant fool could logic that concrete barriers, 100 mph + speeds, street cars, amateur drivers and amateur track workers could potentially lead to a tragedy.

    And Why is Cory Rudls death monitized 40 times more than the insurance death benefits for one dead allied soldier fighting in Afghanistan? Because he owned a nice cars? Ate nice meals? What was so wonderful about him?

    The legal system has been so twisted, contorted and mutilated that often its outcomes no longer bear any resemblance to the well intentioned purposes the system
    was designed for. Settlement? It was a BBQ of insurance companies and not anything more. Just pigs at the trough of a broken legal system.

    How many more hogs do we fatten until we call BS on it all and stop making widows rich because their husbands took big risks and died?

    I dont care what cars the deceased liked, what watches they owned, or what their favorite salad dressing was. They made bad choices and died for doing so. But others shouldn't have to pay for Cory Rudls bad luck and miscalculations. And to ask others to do so is just outright indecent and vulgar greed.

    Re: Ben's case is over

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:Hey, have you all noticed I have not beat up on Porsche in a long time. I am being good.



    Its the veggan diet Nick, its making you too weak to even bash Porsche anymore ... a couple of juicy bar-b-q steaks and you will be back to your old self in no time!!






    JIm I just hope you never find yourself in a similar position. You may regret what you wrote.

    I strongly suspect the GT2 was given PSM because of the CGT incident.

    Dr. Phil or is it Joakim (?) the key to life be it sentient, process, system, or mechanical is balance. Extremes are corrosive.

    FWIW,in this case, the defendants did very well and the process worked. With your doctor it did not and your system is out of balance.

    BTW, Mike the picture does not accurately depict the true location of the concrete barriers at the time of the accident.

    Re: Ben's case is over

    Nick, I dont regret saying it at all. You know that the settlement was a Insurance BBQ to make the defendants and plaintiff happy and not a candid examination of the choices made that fateful day.

    Likely the total costs of taking it all the way through trial(s) would have exceeded the settlement offer so the insurance companies and other parties settled to reduce their costs and exposure. No law against that. But was it right?

    In some ways it appears morally bankrupt. No one compelled either Ben or Cory to take such extraordinary risk.

    Re: Ben's case is over

    I did not even know what there was a lawsuit going on. This cuts me deep inside. The article felt rather dark. Thank you for the update.

    Re: Ben's case is over

    It's fate gentlemen, it just fate and what's meant to be will be. Sad but true

    Re: Ben's case is over

    Isn't it ironic,

    1.Rudl had a Murcielago.
    2.That car has no stability control.
    3.That car has a pendulous V12 that makes driving at the limit very tricky.

    Re: Ben's case is over

    Quote:
    Erik said:
    Isn't it ironic,

    1.Rudl had a Murcielago.
    2.That car has no stability control.
    3.That car has a pendulous V12 that makes driving at the limit very tricky.



    Yeah - but I guess the loving wife didn't have a problem with that....at least she hasnt sued Lamborghini. But when she has spent her 4,5mio $ on Rodeo Drive I guess she'll come around to that

    Re: Ben's case is over

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    Raz (NC) said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    "...settled for a reported total of approximately $4.5 million. The contributions to the settlement were about 49% from the estate of the driver,..."

    I'm so pissed off right now I'm beyond words, and as a moderator I should set example and better keep what I think about this to myself because its not pretty.



    Carlos, don't be mad. It was all covered by the automobile insurance policy. Ben's wife and estate did not have to pay one nickel. I made sure of that.

    Scifrog I wouldn't be too sure of that.



    Nick,

    I know you often get a lot of crap for your views on here, and we don't always see eye to eye, but what you did for Ben's family is truly honorable. You have my utmost respect.



    Raz, thank you.

    Dr. Phil never loss sight of one fact. Juries award damages not the courts. The are comprised of ordinary people like you and me. They make the decision as to what is reasonable given the circumstances. Attorney's only provide the information. They are not bound to accept anything we present or say.

    Hey, have you all noticed I have not beat up on Porsche in a long time. I am being good.



    I now see why you beat up on Porsche, after reading the article you posted in realtion to Ben's case, Porsche should have built a safer car. The CGT is a marvellous car but if Porsche can pay 2% of the damages then it means that deep down in them they knew that the car had a few flaws.
    What baffles me is why they didn't name it the widow maker in place of the GT2

    Re: Ben's case is over

    Quote:
    ITALO said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    Raz (NC) said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    "...settled for a reported total of approximately $4.5 million. The contributions to the settlement were about 49% from the estate of the driver,..."

    I'm so pissed off right now I'm beyond words, and as a moderator I should set example and better keep what I think about this to myself because its not pretty.



    Carlos, don't be mad. It was all covered by the automobile insurance policy. Ben's wife and estate did not have to pay one nickel. I made sure of that.

    Scifrog I wouldn't be too sure of that.



    Nick,

    I know you often get a lot of crap for your views on here, and we don't always see eye to eye, but what you did for Ben's family is truly honorable. You have my utmost respect.



    Raz, thank you.

    Dr. Phil never loss sight of one fact. Juries award damages not the courts. The are comprised of ordinary people like you and me. They make the decision as to what is reasonable given the circumstances. Attorney's only provide the information. They are not bound to accept anything we present or say.

    Hey, have you all noticed I have not beat up on Porsche in a long time. I am being good.



    I now see why you beat up on Porsche, after reading the article you posted in realtion to Ben's case, Porsche should have built a safer car. The CGT is a marvellous car but if Porsche can pay 2% of the damages then it means that deep down in them they knew that the car had a few flaws.
    What baffles me is why they didn't name it the widow maker in place of the GT2



    Porsche paying 2% doesn't say much about them believing the car was at fault, but simply that they cut their losses. You don't want a jury awarding 20 million in damages when you can get away with a few hundred thousand.

    Re: Ben's case is over

    Why was the Ferrari driver determined to be only 2% at fault? Since CA apparently is a pure comparative negligence state how is the vehicle that is the proximate and cause in fact only apportioned 2% the blame? Maybe I didn't read it carefully enough but it appears the Ferrari driver got off VERY easy.

    Re: Ben's case is over

    As a practising physician, I'm not at all surprise about the purpose of this lawsuit, which is all about money. Like it or not, these "money" cases are ongoing everyday. We got sued all the time for trying to save people's lives and then something went wrong. Our patients still like us, but they want to get some free money when a chance arise.

    Nick, you did a great job. I have a lot of respect for you after reading this thread. You deserve to own a nice Ferrari.

    Re: Ben's case is over

    Quote:
    fpb said:
    Why was the Ferrari driver determined to be only 2% at fault? Since CA apparently is a pure comparative negligence state how is the vehicle that is the proximate and cause in fact only apportioned 2% the blame? Maybe I didn't read it carefully enough but it appears the Ferrari driver got off VERY easy.



    The percentage is not representative of fault. The Ferrari driver had rather low limits on his policy which was paid. Also, there were other factors which mitigated the exposure for the Ferrari driver.

    Tim, thank you for your kind comments.

    Crash, Porsche is VERY difficult to deal with in litigation. The arrogance in their marketing carries over to litigation.Their line is, WE HAVE NEVER DONE ANYTHING WRONG AND IT IS PARTCULARLY SO IN THIS CASE. They never pay easily. You drag them fighting, screaming and kicking.

    Re: Ben's case is over

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    fpb said:
    Why was the Ferrari driver determined to be only 2% at fault? Since CA apparently is a pure comparative negligence state how is the vehicle that is the proximate and cause in fact only apportioned 2% the blame? Maybe I didn't read it carefully enough but it appears the Ferrari driver got off VERY easy.



    The percentage is not representative of fault. The Ferrari driver had rather low limits on his policy which was paid. Also, there were other factors which mitigated the exposure for the Ferrari driver.

    Tim, thank you for your kind comments.

    Crash, Porsche is VERY difficult to deal with in litigation. The arrogance in their marketing carries over to litigation.Their line is, WE HAVE NEVER DONE ANYTHING WRONG AND IT IS PARTCULARLY SO IN THIS CASE. They never pay easily. You drag them fighting, screaming and kicking.



    Well, they certainly can afford to pay the relatively minuscule amount. I don't really think they were at fault in this case, but I admit that I rather see them pay than Ben's wife.

    I'm just glad that you managed to contain the damage to Ben's family.

    Re: Ben's case is over

    Nick, have I have to ask, have you ever met a large corporation that was easy to deal with?

    Re: Ben's case is over

    Quote:
    thuggy said:
    Nick, have I have to ask, have you ever met a large corporation that was easy to deal with?



    Absolutely!. FWIW, most insurance companies are good to deal with. I arbitrated cases involving GM, Ford and Chrysler and they were reasonable. Porsche is notorious for being hard nose and tight fisted. They foster that reputation for obvious reasons.

    Re: Ben's case is over

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    thuggy said:
    Nick, have I have to ask, have you ever met a large corporation that was easy to deal with?



    Absolutely!. FWIW, most insurance companies are good to deal with. I arbitrated cases involving GM, Ford and Chrysler and they were reasonable. Porsche is notorious for being hard nose and tight fisted. They foster that reputation for obvious reasons.



    Insurance companies? Must have been before the McKinsey Consultants were in...

    http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_18/b3982072.htm

    Re: Ben's case is over

    Hehehe I wrote "most". Allstate reputation for paying claims is as bad is Porsche.

    Have you read about the yellowing of the carbon fiber on the CGT? Apparently it is quite bad and has affected most if not all the CGT's. Porsche position is "not our fault. Take it up with the vendor who furnished us the carbon fiber."

    Re: Ben's case is over

    I sure haven't heard of the yellowing of the carbon fiber. Interesting... my view of Porsche is becoming slightly skewed.

    Re: Ben's case is over

    Good job Nick!

    Re: Ben's case is over

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Hehehe I wrote "most". Allstate reputation for paying claims is as bad is Porsche.

    Have you read about the yellowing of the carbon fiber on the CGT? Apparently it is quite bad and has affected most if not all the CGT's. Porsche position is "not our fault. Take it up with the vendor who furnished us the carbon fiber."



    I have heard about the yellowing issues. I will agree that is a completely unacceptable position taken by Porsche.

    Re: Ben's case is over

    Nick,

    Good job.

    Re: Ben's case is over

    Theres is an article about Ben's accident in the latest issue of "911& Porsche World" with the consequences for track day organisators.

    Blueflame

     
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