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    Panamera: Milking the Porsche cow?

    We've debated this numerous times - especially the issue of Porsche marketing versus actual Euro for Euro performance.
    IMO Porsche is milking the cow with this car. Pure and simple.
    They need to keep generating profit if they wanna keeep and/or expand their share of VW stock, and they have learned from the Cayenne, that people will eat anything up raw as long as it has a Porsche badge.
    Hence this abomination in the shape of "Panamera".

    You can rest assured that the car will work exactly they way it is supposed to - i.e. satisfy the carefully mapped target audience.
    It may well be a stroke of marketing genious, since many men want to buy a ("real") Porsche - and can afford to - but for practical or profiling reasons choose not to. The Panamera is the answer to their prayers: A luxury family car with a scent of sportscar. This will either sell like crazy, or you may end up even further dividing Porsche owners into those who purchase "real" Porsches (meaning the sportscar lineup) and those who are wannabes, and buy the "pop" Porsche. In time this may potentially damage the brand.

    From a business perspective the Panamera could very well be a wise move, one that will probably end up making Porsche even more profitable - but from the POV of someone who is passionate about Porsche, this is populism and opportunism at its worst.
    Soon we will have two "bastard" models in the Porsche line-up, and Porsche will by no stretch of the imagination be able to call or market themselves as true sportscar manufacturers any longer.
    Some will argue that Porsche would have faced rough times had it not been for the Cayenne.
    True. But havent they cleared the finacial abyss by a mile now? Do they need more Cayenne marketing ploys?
    Once Porsche was passionate about making cars. Now they just seem passionate about making money. Shame, shame, shame.

    What's your take on this?

    Re: Panamera: Milking the Porsche cow?

    Your preaching to the choir as far as I am concerned.

    As most know my biggest hang up with Porsche has been they way they have exploited the name in their quest for profit. However, It is clear to me that the long term strategy is they want to be a MB or BMW. So far so good.

    Porsche will never again be a specialty car company. Sadly, Porschephiles will continue to buy their cars.

    Re: Panamera: Milking the Porsche cow?

    I have no problem with Porsche making Cayenne and now the Panamera as long as they are good handling cars (i.e. better than their competitors). I will always have a variety of cars in my garage and if Porsche can fulfill all my needs, I have no problem having an all Porsche garage.

    Re: Panamera: Milking the Porsche cow?

    Dr. phil,

    Seems to me that you just have woken up and smelled the coffee my friend.

    This is what majority of Porsche lovers used to say long time ago but it's too late.

    No matter how fantastic Cayenne is or Panamera will be we all knew that Porsche deviated from its roots long ago. The reason was to stay in business, well I guess they have to do what they need to.

    However, many Porsche lovers seem to be looking elsewhere to satisfy their sports car needs, some to AUDI, some to Z06, and some that are more affluent to Lambo and Ferrari.

    We all knew that Porsche wanted to be a major player like BMW and MB so let's get used to the idea and cherish the old memories .

    Re: Panamera: Milking the Porsche cow?

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    or you may end up even further dividing Porsche owners into those who purchase "real" Porsches (meaning the sportscar lineup) and those who are wannabes, and buy the "pop" Porsche. In time this may potentially damage the brand.




    So what there are "pop" Porsche!! As long as Porsche makes real Porsche (e.g. Boxster/Cayman/911), I will stay a loyal Porsche nut. Those who see Porsche differently just because they make a SUV and a sedan are buying Porsche for the nameplate. I don't see why people who truely appreciate Porsche sports car should even care it also builds other type of vehicle.

    Re: Panamera: Milking the Porsche cow?

    I don't really have a problem with Porsche trying to make money (any stay in business).

    As long as they continue to offer a broad choice of Sports Cars, what's the problem? Yes, perhaps the 997tt is becoming ever more a GT (to better compete with SL55/65??). IMO, I'm quite happy with it the way it is. If I wanted something more hardcore I would have bought a GT3.

    Fom the Boxster, Cayman, 911 series etc, they are all wonderful Sports Cars with little to no competition. You just can't compare them to MB/Audi/BMW/Chevy! Do they offer good value? Again, IMO, unless you overload them with options, the answer is YES.

    Ferrari & Lambo offer great alternatives, BUT at what price? Can you actually drive them every day? How dependable are they? Bottom line - they are great weekend toys. Nothing wrong with that, just not in the same category.


    Re: Panamera: Milking the Porsche cow?

    Porsche still has the NO SUBSTITUDE feature and i think this keeps the brand alive. yes the brand name (the badge on the hood) makes their cars very popular at the moment but they are also backed with something. A porsche is something wonderful in the automotive world, in whichever form it may come. Look how the Cayenne has affected the SUV market with others coming with similar powerful SUVs!!

    the panamera will i think be very succesful and give porsche more market share, because i can see many switch from bmws and mercedes to the panamera just to have a sporty family porsche. its certainly trendy..

    I really really hope the panamera will continue to no substitude cloud along with it that has made porsche so succesful.

    Re: Panamera: Milking the Porsche cow?

    I think the mistake we make is that we try to love all the products made by "our" brand...
    It is the same with being fan of a band: it's stupid, cause every band will have fantastic songs and songs that are rubbish. One shouldn't try to love all the porsches, but it can actually be true that all the cars you love are porsches...
    -Joost-

    Re: Panamera: Milking the Porsche cow?

    Quote:
    Joost said:
    I think the mistake we make is that we try to love all the products made by "our" brand...
    It is the same with being fan of a band: it's stupid, cause every band will have fantastic songs and songs that are rubbish. One shouldn't try to love all the porsches, but it can actually be true that all the cars you love are porsches...
    -Joost-



    Joost,

    Very true and intelligent . I personally never looked at this way but it sure makes sense.

    Re: Panamera: Milking the Porsche cow?

    The thing to watch for is this: When Porsche advertises a "Winter Sales Event" you will know that they have become just another car company. Nothing more!

    Re: Panamera: Milking the Porsche cow?

    The purpose of the Panamera is not to milk the Porsche badge. If Porsche really wanted to milk the name they could easily just take any VW or Audi redesign the exterior and slap a Porsche badge on it but they don't. They want to stay true to their philosophy which is offer the best possible driving pleasure through out the line up.

    What many of you Porsche fanatics aren't aware of is that Porsche is a company just like Microsoft or Ikea and need to make money. Porsche can't survive on only the 911, CGT and Boxster.

    There are lots of people who own a 911 but are forced to sell it when they get kids for very obvious reasons. A good percentage of those people end up buying an M5, E55 or RS6 as a compromise. It is those people that Porsche want to keep as customers using the Panamera.

    Off course the Panamera won't be a "true" Porsche like the 911 but the world isn't perfect and sometimes you have take a step out of the box in order to make things work.

    All this talk about Porsche digging their own grave and leaving their roots behind is exaggerated. The Cayenne or even the Panamera hasn't affected Porsche in any negative way. The Boxster is just like the 911, pretty much untouched with the same formula like 10 years ago.

    Porsche is a very profitable company with a very dedicated fan base and there is no way they will make the Panamera a disappointing car.

    Re: Panamera: Milking the Porsche cow?

    honestly speaking, i don't understand the philosophy behind the Panamera.

    The cayenne was a cash cow. Thousands of folks who always wanted to be associated with the brand but did not want to spend all their loot on a 2door car flocked to the dealer and bought one.

    Now the Panamera is coming and i personally dont think it will generate as much hype as the cayenne did (since everyone has already got their Porsche fix). Plus it will cannibalize a large portion of cayenne sales as they will both be targeted to the same prospective buyers.

    Re: Panamera: Milking the Porsche cow?

    Quote:
    amir sarmad said:
    Plus it will cannibalize a large portion of cayenne sales as they will both be targeted to the same prospective buyers.



    I don't think the buyers are quite the same for the Panamera as the Cayenne.

    Did BMW cannibalize the M5 with the X5?

    Did Mercedes cannibalize the E63 with the ML55?

    Didn't think so.

    Re: Panamera: Milking the Porsche cow?

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    Quote:
    amir sarmad said:
    Plus it will cannibalize a large portion of cayenne sales as they will both be targeted to the same prospective buyers.



    I don't think the buyers are quite the same for the Panamera as the Cayenne.

    Did BMW cannibalize the M5 with the X5?

    Did Mercedes cannibalize the E63 with the ML55?

    Didn't think so.



    Agreed.

    There is no doubt Porsche will turn a profit from the Panamera and will not threaten the rest of its model lineup. I am equivocating on the idea that the car will lure large numbers of MB-AMG/BMW-M/Audi-S buyers, the VKSF's of the market, although it will win over some.

    But for me, the big question is will Porsche build a four-door SPORTS sedan, regardless of any stylistic shortcomings? You know, the sort of car that will make us Porschephiles tachycardic, sort of like the GT2 and the CGT do it to us-so we can readily gloss over any aesthetic concerns and hone in on the spec. sheet and brag about its 'Ring times. That's what I'm wondering-and hoping.

    Re: Panamera: Milking the Porsche cow?

    One only hopes that Porsche DOESN'T sell a cheap, entry-level, V6 Panamera.

    That would be plain silly.

    Re: Panamera: Milking the Porsche cow?

    Quote:
    luwalira said:
    The purpose of the Panamera is not to milk the Porsche badge. If Porsche really wanted to milk the name they could easily just take any VW or Audi redesign the exterior and slap a Porsche badge on it but they don't. They want to stay true to their philosophy which is offer the best possible driving pleasure through out the line up.

    What many of you Porsche fanatics aren't aware of is that Porsche is a company just like Microsoft or Ikea and need to make money. Porsche can't survive on only the 911, CGT and Boxster.

    There are lots of people who own a 911 but are forced to sell it when they get kids for very obvious reasons. A good percentage of those people end up buying an M5, E55 or RS6 as a compromise. It is those people that Porsche want to keep as customers using the Panamera.

    Off course the Panamera won't be a "true" Porsche like the 911 but the world isn't perfect and sometimes you have take a step out of the box in order to make things work.

    All this talk about Porsche digging their own grave and leaving their roots behind is exaggerated. The Cayenne or even the Panamera hasn't affected Porsche in any negative way. The Boxster is just like the 911, pretty much untouched with the same formula like 10 years ago.

    Porsche is a very profitable company with a very dedicated fan base and there is no way they will make the Panamera a disappointing car.



    This post makes a lot of sense. Porsche is not like Ferrari or Lamborghini, boutique brands for much larger manufacturers. History has shown what lies in store for Porsche should they depend only on the fickle sports car market.

    We are sports car fans, not so much fans of sedans, or especially SUVs. However, that does not mean that Porsche is just going through the motions, doing some cheap-o badge engineering. Whether you like the type of vehicle or not, if you take a level, unbiased look at the Cayenne S or Turbo, you will see that there is a remarkable amount of real technology at play. Take a look at some of the footage of Walter Rohrl hustling the Trans-Siberia Cayenne on a dirt/mud road and then ask yourself is this really far from what Porsche is all about? I don't really think so. I firmly believe that Porsche continues to make authentic vehicles. Do they charge a premium? Yes, they can so they do. But the underlying vehicles are true Porsches none-the-less.

    I think there are many here (Nick?) who despite various protestations to the contrary, fundamentally equate Porsche's commitment to its customer base to its willingness to maintain "exclusivity" by curtailing production to the point where residuals remain artifically high. If that is what defines brand value for you, than yes, Porsche making more and different vehicles is a bad thing.

    Re: Panamera: Milking the Porsche cow?

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    Quote:
    amir sarmad said:
    Plus it will cannibalize a large portion of cayenne sales as they will both be targeted to the same prospective buyers.



    I don't think the buyers are quite the same for the Panamera as the Cayenne.

    Did BMW cannibalize the M5 with the X5?

    Did Mercedes cannibalize the E63 with the ML55?

    Didn't think so.



    Yes you are right, but i think i may have mis expressed what i was trying to imply. now here me out.

    Mercedes has always been a "full service" auto manufacturer, they make sedans, 2doors, SUVs, Trucks...etc

    Our Beloved Porsche was never a "full service" auto manufacturer. They only made 2 doors sport cars until a few years ago. The cayenne gave the opportunity to alot of ppl to get in on the Porsche ownership experince. Now they can finally have a Porsche as a family car that can haul the jetskis, kids and dog.

    My point was that i dont "think" the Panamera will be surrounded with as big of a hype as the cayenne was for the sole reason that people who wanted in on the Porsche experience have already done so. Its almost become a household name and not an exotic anymore. The reason why i think it will cannibalize sales for "this particular auto maker" is that it will be targeted towards individuals who want an everyday Porsche with proper back seats and 4 doors.

    Many ppl have bought cayennes over other automaker sedans for the sole reason that the cayenne is a Porsche and the other is just another BMW/AUDI/MERC.

    Now i don't know how much the Panamera is going to cost but i bet if the difference between the Panamera and Cayenne is +/- $5k then alot of ppl will start scratching theirs heads on which Porsche to buy. keep in mind that the X5, Treg, Ml, Cayenne doesn't offer no more significant seating space than your average mid size Sedan.

    Re: Panamera: Milking the Porsche cow?

    Quote:
    amjf088 said:
    (...) History has shown what lies in store for Porsche should they depend only on the fickle sports car market.



    That's not entirely accurate. In the early 90ies Porsche didn't get into trouble because they tried to maneuver an increasingly difficult market, but because they had been building cars that people didnt want, sold low production quality at too high a cost and - as Wendelin Wiedeking put it "we had three problems in the early 90ies: Firtsly our production dept. wasnt good enough, secondly our production dept. wasnt good enough and thirdly our production dept. wasnt good enough".
    Now they solely focus on what the customers want and WW has rebuilt the whole company around his own "glaubwürdigkeit" - credibility - to deliver what he promises, to keep everyone from shareholders, employees to clients happy.
    Now, WW could have also chosen (succesfully) to do this by focussing even more on sportscars, and IMO with not as huge a financial success as they have had with the Cayenne, but still with great success. (I know - an academic debate)
    But they chose to extend the line-up and broaden their focus.

    The job of the Panamera is not to save Porsche, or help regain momentum.
    It seems the Panamera is part of a careful plan to make the Porsche line-up fathom a whole palette of different car types and models. To become a "mini-BMW" or perhaps, more accurately a mini-VAG.

    What I fail to see, is what is the brand promise? What do you get when you buy a Panamera? Or let alone a 911?
    Is a Panamera buyer getting "something that smells like a 4-seater 911" or will the 911-buyer in the future buy "the Panamera for the purist"?
    I agree that a 911, Cayman or Boxster dont become lesser sportscars just because they now have 4WD and sedan siblings - but I do believe that the Porsche brand will get a lot less exclusive for the Porsche purists and diehard Porschephiles.

    My memory may serve me poorly, but I seem to recall that Porsche used to build cars to the best of their abilities.
    Meaning the fastest and best handling roadgoing cars you could buy.
    Now they seem to build cars that are juuust enough to keep their mainstream audience happy and make more $.
    Jeremy Clarkson was right on the money, when he criticized the fact that neither the Boxster nor the Cayman had been built to meet their full potential. They had been held back to not upset the 911 audience.
    Clever marketing - but it's hard for Porsche to claim that this is the way of a company that builds cars for which "there are no substitute".

    But bottom line is, that the average Porsche customer seems to have no problem with this.
    So perhaps the Porsche purist is a dying breed?

    Quote:
    amjf088 said:
    Take a look at some of the footage of Walter Rohrl hustling the Trans-Siberia Cayenne on a dirt/mud road and then ask yourself is this really far from what Porsche is all about? I don't really think so.




    Wally Roerhl could take a Yugo and make it look good. It's hardly a valid argument.
    The Cayenne is undoubtedly a great SUV/All-terrain car - but IMO it is and always will be a well-built, clever marketing tool. Not a true Porsche.

    Re: Panamera: Milking the Porsche cow?

    I agree with W8MM and besides... who cares? PAG makes the cars the market seeks. Period!

    Re: Panamera: Milking the Porsche cow?

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    As most know my biggest hang up with Porsche has been they way they have exploited the name in their quest for profit.



    Ummm....don't all companies exploit their name in a quest for profit??

    Re: Panamera: Milking the Porsche cow?

    Quote:
    JP66 said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    As most know my biggest hang up with Porsche has been they way they have exploited the name in their quest for profit.



    Ummm....don't all companies exploit their name in a quest for profit??



    Not Ferrari! [sarcasm]

    Re: Panamera: Milking the Porsche cow?

    Hmm, I see a lot of very bright posts over here, and a lot of thruth. For me, in the end it comes down to one thing:
    Will the Panamera be a fantastic car? Undoubtedly! Knowing porsche it will outperform any competitor with a small margin. Will I love the panamera? No, I don't think so, trucks and sedans don't appeal to me. 911's do
    -Joost-

    Re: Panamera: Milking the Porsche cow?

    Obviously this is a very emotive subject for some but no-one has yet mentioned the amazing speed at which environmental issues are gathering pace around key markets for luxury cars not to mention very strict proposed legislative emissions requirements. The resulting decline this is causing in SUV sales as buyers start to turn away from gas guzzlers as they no longer feel comfortable being seen as uncaring polluters is only going to continue increasing IMHO. Sales of the Cayenne will steadily erode and it's doubtful that even with a hybrid in the next generation line up that this trend will be reversed. The Panamera will help to fill that sales gap for Porsche by becoming the more acceptable, more fuel efficient method of family travel in a Porsche.

    Re: Panamera: Milking the Porsche cow?

    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    JP66 said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    As most know my biggest hang up with Porsche has been they way they have exploited the name in their quest for profit.



    Ummm....don't all companies exploit their name in a quest for profit??



    Not Ferrari! [sarcasm]



    That is why Ferrari is owned by Fiat. If Porsche didn't engage in diversification they would be owned by VW. Porsche is making money in order to protect themselves from economical problems and getting bought up by a company which will destroy the brand.

    Re: Panamera: Milking the Porsche cow?

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    [...] my biggest hang up with Porsche has been they way they have exploited the name in their quest for profit. [...]



    Huh??? So a company shouldn't exploit its own brand to make increased profits???

    Companies only survive, in the short term, if they make 'break-even profits' and, in the long term, only if they can make 'supernormal profits'. 'Supernormal' meaning anything over and above 'break-even' profits. Do you have even the faintest idea what you are evangelising about??? For heaven's sake, Nick, read any undergraduate economics textbook before you embarrass yourself further.

    This is yet another collector's item to add to the ever-growing scrapbook of Nick's gaffes The irony is that, with each gaffe you make, they each lose the exclusivity that you prize so highly!

    C'mon Nick, aren't you tired of putting your foot in your mouth?

    Re: Panamera: Milking the Porsche cow?

    Dr Phil, you make some very valid points

    If I were speaking only as a car enthusiast living in a fantasyland where R&D costs nothing, I'd agree with a lot of what you are saying.

    However, PAG, as an independent manufacturer, can only afford to produce high performance sportscars because the Cayenne (and soon the Panamera) are bankrolling the investment costs in R&D, production costs etc.

    So I reluctantly, begrudgingly accept the Cayenne to my bosom merely as a sporty 4X4 that funds the cars that I am in reality passionate about.

    I think no doubt that the Panamera will be a monster hit. I also expect it to depreciate heavily after the initial buzz has subsided. You expressed it very well when you wrote that it will be a luxury sedan with a scent of sportscar. Spot on. It is designed to compete against the Bentley Continental GT, the CL63AMG etc etc. Does it bring anything radically new to the table? I don't think so. It primarily brings the Porsche reputation for high performance to this segment. This is THE car for all those wealthy 40-55 year old men who had to sell their 911s when they had 2-3 kids.

    I also think it's a clever way for PAG to keep selling sporty family cars to a wider audience now that the 4X4 is a genre in terminal decline.

    Re: Panamera: Milking the Porsche cow?

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:My memory may serve me poorly, but I seem to recall that Porsche used to build cars to the best of their abilities. Meaning the fastest and best handling road-going cars you could buy. Now they seem to build cars that are juuust enough to keep their mainstream audience happy and make more $.
    Jeremy Clarkson was right on the money, when he criticized the fact that neither the Boxster nor the Cayman had been built to meet their full potential. They had been held back to not upset the 911 audience.




    Correct. Your memory needs a tune-up. Or, maybe you're not old enough to remember "the good old days".

    The world of Porsche was ever thus. The comments about Cayman and Boxster being under-developed when compared to the 911 are just 30 years old. Remember the 914-6?

    And, Porsche has ALWAYS metered out just enough (and no more) improvement from one model year to the next to keep sales interest up. I remember being aggravated by this in the '80s.

    The difference between then and now is the speed and breadth of information flow, especially in a forum like this one. We all know so much more than the days when one had to go down to the dealer and ask what was new or watch for it on the showroom floor or wait for a Road & Track issue to find out things. Today, everything coming down the pipe is a mouse-click away.

    The internet has taken all the romance out of the new product experience. That's why you're feeling let down!

    Re: Panamera: Milking the Porsche cow?

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    Dr Phil, you make some very valid points

    If I were speaking only as a car enthusiast living in a fantasyland where R&D costs nothing, I'd agree with a lot of what you are saying.

    However, PAG, as an independent manufacturer, can only afford to produce high performance sportscars because the Cayenne (and soon the Panamera) are bankrolling the investment costs in R&D, production costs etc.

    So I reluctantly, begrudgingly accept the Cayenne to my bosom merely as a sporty 4X4 that funds the cars that I am in reality passionate about.

    I think no doubt that the Panamera will be a monster hit. I also expect it to depreciate heavily after the initial buzz has subsided. You expressed it very well when you wrote that it will be a luxury sedan with a scent of sportscar. Spot on. It is designed to compete against the Bentley Continental GT, the CL63AMG etc etc. Does it bring anything radically new to the table? I don't think so. It primarily brings the Porsche reputation for high performance to this segment. This is THE car for all those wealthy 40-55 year old men who had to sell their 911s when they had 2-3 kids.

    I also think it's a clever way for PAG to keep selling sporty family cars to a wider audience now that the 4X4 is a genre in terminal decline.



    Great post, easyrider!

    But I'm going to take it one step further. The Cayenne is not just a cash cow for Porsche, it is a great, if not the greatest SUV out there (for us who enjoy driving and owning SUVs). There is no other SUV out there that I want to own except the Cayenne.

    The trend is that Porsche will become a company that has a full range of vehicles like BMW and Mercedes, whether the purists like it or not. Yes, I am sometimes disappointed to see so many Porsches on the street. But when I drive my Porsches everyday, I know that there is no substitute, and that is exactly what most of the other Porsche drivers are thinking out there.

    Re: Panamera: Milking the Porsche cow?

    Mike, you're absolutely right that the Internet flow of info has taken a lot of the "romance" and mystery out of the "new product experience".
    And you're right that no car manufacturer - including Porsche - would do well in the long run by delivering more than they have to.
    But bottom line for me is - all your valid points taken into consideration - that for me personally, Porsche has lost a lot of the attraction that it once had. Some of that I subscribe to the fact that it seems Porsche is focussing more on getting bigger and bigger and generating more and more profit than they are on building cars that make you pee your pants with excitement.

    I think that in the long run, true car enthusiasts will want more from their preferred car brand than executive cars targeted at dentists and lawyers who dont wanna wrinkle their Armani suit when they step into their 600 BHP sedan.

    The CGT was/is a great example of what Porsche SHOULD be about.
    And I dont mean that Porsche should only produce über-sportscars for a handful of people - that would doom their biz in no time I should think.
    I'm simply wondering why the world's most profitable car company isn't using its profits on ALSO building outrageous, superior, bold and different cars instead of just keeping on producing marketing-safe vehicles.

    I miss some enthusiasm, boldness and balls here.
    It's all so nice, safe and...boring.

    I used to aspire to the 911 turbo. Not so anymore. Despite being the official tax hell on this planet, we have a few in this neighborhood - and they just dont get my blood boiling like that model used to. Why? It's an incredible machinery for sure - but it simply lacks charisma and character. Even the sound is nice and safe. (I know..it's a turbo....but still!)
    Take the Gallardo or an F430 instead. Loud (in every sense of the word) and impossible to ignore. Something I really miss with Porsche.
    Sadly, my heart belongs to Porsche and not Lambo or Ferrari - so all I can do, is either get a RUF or hope Wiedeking smokes some weed and starts being creative

    Easy Rider911:
    You said:
    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    However, PAG, as an independent manufacturer, can only afford to produce high performance sportscars because the Cayenne (and soon the Panamera) are bankrolling the investment costs in R&D, production costs etc.



    AFAIK Porsche is making a good profit on their sportscars alone as it is. And that profit should be more than adequate to cover R&D expenses for more that just upgrades of the existing line-up.

    If the worlds most profitable car company cant blow the skirt up on their target audience, who the hell can?
    If making bundles of money is primarily about keeping stockholders happy, and not primarily about building the best darn cars on the planet - what's the whole point?

    I used to be a huge Audi enthusiast, but fell out of love because I found out I didn't fit the dentist demographics they were increasingly wooing. However Audi is not positioned as a sportscar manufacturer, so they are actually being very persistant in their marketing towards the upper middle class.

    Now Porsche seems to be targeting the same audience, leaving their sportscar heritage behind in the process.
    Compromising for the sake of profit. And that is probably my biggest concern for the Porsche brand.
    Perhaps the company credo should be "Porsche - is that a prostitute?"

    Re: Panamera: Milking the Porsche cow?

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    AFAIK Porsche is making a good profit on their sportscars alone as it is.




    Actually they don't. Selling prestigious sports cars is a very risky and difficult business. Sales are usually high during the first 1-2 years but can at times decline very fast during the last years of the product lifesplan. Further more sports cars sell less during winter time, sales are very up and down and if a recession is to occur a manufacturer selling nothing but prestigious sports car fan find themselves in big trouble.

    Cars like the Cayenne and Panamera are "peoples" car which are attractive for a lot of people and sell well all year around which is good for a steady cash flow. They generate money which enables Porsche to invest in new technology like VTG, PDK, LED but most importantly in new models like the CGT and Cayman.

    You have to understand that the limits of the boxer engine sitting in the 911 will soon be reached and while Porsche is figuring out what to do with it the coming 5-10 years they need to secure income for the future.

    All the talk about Porsche now days developing safe and boring cars is a bit exaggerated. The new GT3 is exciting as ever and the cayman is one of the best mid engine cars around with all the potential in the world.

    Yes some might argue that it's a waste that the GT3 and GT2 come with PASM and aids but those are probably very appreciated by many 911 owners who use and drive their 911 on a daily basis rather than use them as weekend cars like Ferraris and Lambos.

    Porsche is getting diluted but they have in no way left their sportscar heritage behind.

     
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    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part I) Thread Closed 9/24/20 12:47 AM
    watt
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    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 12/30/20 9:03 AM
    rhino
     
     
     
     
     
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    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020) 4/10/21 2:32 PM
    Joost
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    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 4/21/21 9:49 AM
    RCA
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    Porsche Sticky ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera 4S 3/3/21 10:57 PM
    Wonderbar
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    Porsche Sticky Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review 10/19/20 6:12 PM
    Leawood911
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    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 4/23/21 8:09 AM
    BjoernB
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    Porsche Sticky Porsche extends the Taycan model range (Taycan 2WD) 2/1/21 12:42 PM
    Leawood911
    4303 29
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017) 7/27/20 2:13 AM
    DJM48
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    Porsche Cayman GT4 4/13/21 10:04 AM
    996FourEss
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    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 4/13/21 8:01 AM
    BjoernB
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    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 12/27/20 4:06 PM
    Topspeed
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    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 11/5/20 9:55 PM
    DaveGordon
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    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 12/8/20 7:51 PM
    DJM48
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    Porsche OFFICIAL: The new Porsche 992 – a design icon and high-tech sports car 2/28/21 8:05 PM
    Topspeed
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    Porsche Tesla Roadster 9/23/20 8:22 PM
    bluelines
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    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016) 2/11/21 9:22 AM
    Itsme
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    Others Alfa Romeo 4C 9/23/20 10:22 AM
    RCA
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    Porsche 992 GT3 4/22/21 7:35 PM
    blueflame
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    Lambo Lamborghini Huracan and variants 4/9/21 4:32 PM
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    McLaren F1 2/25/21 11:33 AM
    RCA
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    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 4/16/21 10:24 AM
    rhino
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    AMG AMG GT R 11/19/20 11:47 PM
    Topspeed
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    Lambo Aventador and SV 4/20/21 3:21 PM
    CGX car nut
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    Porsche 991 Speedster 9/3/20 4:29 PM
    Topspeed
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    Porsche Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan 11/23/20 6:10 PM
    Topspeed
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    Others Bugatti Chiron 4/12/21 3:42 PM
    RCA
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    Porsche Olive 991.2 GT3 Clubsport 1/1/21 7:58 PM
    throt
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    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 4/22/21 3:03 PM
    nberry
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    BMW M BMW M2 Rumors 3/21/21 5:01 PM
    Topspeed
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