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    Re: Panamera - Official Pictures & Specs

    A hideous car but seriously fast.

    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    Lars997:
    Rossi:
    Lars997:
    Way to expensive I would say!
    And these are the base prices and we all know Porsche's option philosophy... Smiley


    That is exactly what I mean. A PanameraS is would easily go up to 125 k€. For this I can get a decent 7series and a 1series on top!

    I wonder how many 7 series or S class are bought by individual buyers as opposed to company cars even in Germany? I presume a small %.

    The Panamera is rather addressed to affluent people spending their own money so most of these people wouldn't want a large size 3 series or an XL taxi from Mercedes.

    It is the same with Porsche sportscars that in cold numbers they don't make financial sense compared to the offerings from BMW and Mercedes and recently Audi.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    @ Reginos: yes, I'm sure we won't see many Panameras as corporate cars here in Germany (has few to do with the price tag, but a lot with the image - especially in today's bad economy climate). Also I can't imagine that Porsche intends to grant huge corporate discounts (like MB, BMW, AUDI) for the Panamera. The car is aimed either at the affluent private buyer or as a "business car" for self-employed people (lawyers etc.)
    --
    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black

    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    Good point reginos.

    But even here, most of the 911 and sportscars are company cars. Of course, much less as S-Class or 7. So the ratio of the Panamera might be more equal with 911s


    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    KresoF1:

            BTW, it is 700Nm for Turbo. BUT, IMO 4.2s is not possible for 2T car with 500ps/700Nm-PDK or not.

    ...and Price is as high as RC correctly pointed out. With nice option Panamera Turbo is at 155K € level in Germany(with Mwst.).


            That's good news. I already pondered that the 500NM could be a limit imposed by PDK.


    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    Panamera S
    12.5 l/100km (10.8 PDK)

    Panamera 4S PDK
    11.1 l/100km

    Panamera Turbo PDK
    12.2 l/100km

    Regarding the  fuel consumption... I doubt that is possible... maybe if you push the car instead of driving it! Here some of you that have the Cayenne may say how it is, because are the same engines... but... Smiley I don´t believe it!


    --
    ALL PORSCHE ARE REAL PORSCHE!!!

    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    ed_moree:

    Panamera S
    12.5 l/100km (10.8 PDK)

    Panamera 4S PDK
    11.1 l/100km

    Panamera Turbo PDK
    12.2 l/100km

    Regarding the  fuel consumption... I doubt that is possible... maybe if you push the car instead of driving it! Here some of you that have the Cayenne may say how it is, because are the same engines... but... Smiley I don´t believe it!


    --
    ALL PORSCHE ARE REAL PORSCHE!!!

    I'm afraid it is fully possible. It's the same case with the BMW X6, it weigh the same as a Cayenne GTS and has identical power output but get's its ass spanked by the X6 when it comes to acceleration and fuel economy.

    Bare in mind tha tthe official fuel economy figures are just an indication. Fuel economy in real life obviously varies as people buying these cars will obviously push they hard for full enjoyment.


    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

     

    I think its part of the PDK. The PDK is faster and puts the consumption down!


    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    These are "normalized" figures using standardized tests. In some instances, robots are "driving" the vehicule.

    I was also told that in some cases, the fuel injection software recognizes it's a "test" and is switching to a "special" mode to save fuel...

    PDK is certainly a plus as well. 


    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    EricAlain:

    These are "normalized" figures using standardized tests. In some instances, robots are "driving" the vehicule.

    I was also told that in some cases, the fuel injection software recognizes it's a "test" and is switching to a "special" mode to save fuel...

    PDK is certainly a plus as well. 

    The value of these figures is purely comparative but nevertheless they say something about the relative efficiency of different cars.

    No one achieves them in real driving unless you do an economy run.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    Absolutely correct, it gives a clue about relative efficiency of different vehicles.

    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    In fact - I made the experience, if you take the consumption they tell you for city usage, this is what I normally need in the mix (and I drive mainly Autobahn).

    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    MKSGR:
    KresoF1:

            BTW, it is 700Nm for Turbo. BUT, IMO 4.2s is not possible for 2T car with 500ps/700Nm-PDK or not.

    ...and Price is as high as RC correctly pointed out. With nice option Panamera Turbo is at 155K € level in Germany(with Mwst.).


            That's good news. I already pondered that the 500NM could be a limit imposed by PDK.

    But it is 4.0 secs (not 4.2 secs) with the Sport Chrono Plus Paket!

    Perhaps it is Porsche magic at work, again.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    4 min of real life Panamera footage curtsey of Autobild and michael mauer.

    http://www.autobild.de/autobild-tv/?clip_id=1243


    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    reginos:
    MKSGR:
    KresoF1:

            BTW, it is 700Nm for Turbo. BUT, IMO 4.2s is not possible for 2T car with 500ps/700Nm-PDK or not.

    ...and Price is as high as RC correctly pointed out. With nice option Panamera Turbo is at 155K € level in Germany(with Mwst.).


            That's good news. I already pondered that the 500NM could be a limit imposed by PDK.

    But it is 4.0 secs (not 4.2 secs) with the Sport Chrono Plus Paket!

    Perhaps it is Porsche magic at work, again.

     


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

          Well, I smell GTR like marketing in this Panamera numbers... For God sake, 0-100km/h in 4.0s for 2000kg car with 500ps/700Nm! PDK or NOT I will repeat-fishy as possible.

     

    So, in this case lets look at 997.2 Turbo perspective... New DFI with 500ps/700Nm also(most likely 3614ccm engine) and PDK... 0-100km/h for sure then in 3.2s with SC Plus then! Since 997.2 Turbo PDK weight will be 1610kg...

    PDK or not Panamera Turbo numbers are almost SF...  


    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    KresoF1:
    reginos:
    MKSGR:
    KresoF1:

            BTW, it is 700Nm for Turbo. BUT, IMO 4.2s is not possible for 2T car with 500ps/700Nm-PDK or not.

    ...and Price is as high as RC correctly pointed out. With nice option Panamera Turbo is at 155K € level in Germany(with Mwst.).


            That's good news. I already pondered that the 500NM could be a limit imposed by PDK.

    But it is 4.0 secs (not 4.2 secs) with the Sport Chrono Plus Paket!

    Perhaps it is Porsche magic at work, again.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

          Well, I smell GTR like marketing in this Panamera numbers... For God sake, 0-100km/h in 4.0s for 2000kg car with 500ps/700Nm! PDK or NOT I will repeat-fishy as possible.

    So, in this case lets look at 997.2 Turbo perspective... New DFI with 500ps/700Nm also(most likely 3614ccm engine) and PDK... 0-100km/h for sure then in 3.2s with SC Plus then! Since 997.2 Turbo PDK weight will be 1610kg...

    PDK or not Panamera Turbo numbers are almost SF...  


    Remember that the Panamera's development has been unprecedented with full scale prototypes rolling ont he roads for just over 3 years. Porsche has invested over 1 billion euros into this car and I don't think they would lie about raw performance figures like that. Bare in mind that the 911 also defy laws of physics by out performing lighter cars that posses a more powerful engne.

    I guess this is what a Porsche executive meant a few months ago when he said that the Panamera has exceeded expectations and is not far from the 911 in terms of performance.


    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    "Bare in mind that the 911 also defy laws of physics by out performing lighter cars that posses a more powerful engne."

    Huh... Lighter and more powerfull sportscar that are slower(accleration and track wise) then current 997.2 models??? Which one please?

     


    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    KresoF1:
    reginos:
    MKSGR:
    KresoF1:

            BTW, it is 700Nm for Turbo. BUT, IMO 4.2s is not possible for 2T car with 500ps/700Nm-PDK or not.

    ...and Price is as high as RC correctly pointed out. With nice option Panamera Turbo is at 155K € level in Germany(with Mwst.).


            That's good news. I already pondered that the 500NM could be a limit imposed by PDK.

    But it is 4.0 secs (not 4.2 secs) with the Sport Chrono Plus Paket!

    Perhaps it is Porsche magic at work, again.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

          Well, I smell GTR like marketing in this Panamera numbers... For God sake, 0-100km/h in 4.0s for 2000kg car with 500ps/700Nm! PDK or NOT I will repeat-fishy as possible.

    So, in this case lets look at 997.2 Turbo perspective... New DFI with 500ps/700Nm also(most likely 3614ccm engine) and PDK... 0-100km/h for sure then in 3.2s with SC Plus then! Since 997.2 Turbo PDK weight will be 1610kg...

    PDK or not Panamera Turbo numbers are almost SF...  

    Porsche have a reliable record of never overestimating their official figures and I don't think they will change that now. If anything they have been pessimistic sometimes.

    Second, all Porsches have been performing above their on-paper specification since I can remember.

    I expect the new Turbo to be in the Scuderia class of acceleration and surely faster than the Fiorano.



    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    KresoF1:

    "Bare in mind that the 911 also defy laws of physics by out performing lighter cars that posses a more powerful engne."

    Huh... Lighter and more powerfull sportscar that are slower(accleration and track wise) then current 997.2 models??? Which one please?

    Check and see which cars do around 7.50 or less at the NBR. Only the creme de la creme of the automobile industry, exotic cars, multicylinder engines, cars practically undrivable outside a piste and costing thousands of Euro more.



    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    So, if I undestanded correctly you wrote that new 997.2 Turbo PDK will be faster then 430 Scud and 599 Fiorano-both acceleration wise and on the track... OK...

    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    KresoF1:

    "Bare in mind that the 911 also defy laws of physics by out performing lighter cars that posses a more powerful engne."

    Huh... Lighter and more powerfull sportscar that are slower(accleration and track wise) then current 997.2 models??? Which one please?


    At the top of my I can come up with the Gallardo and F430 which are both very light cars but happen to be neck to neck or maybe even a tiny notch slower than the heavier and "underpowered" 997 Turbo. Porsche cars have always been more than the sum of all their parts or what's on the spec sheet, they go beyond that.

     In the end I felt that there was something more to the Panamera than the somewhat dissapointing official images released a few months ago. There was no way Porsche would develop a car for half a decade without making it the new benchmark.


    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    KresoF1:
    So, if I undestanded correctly you wrote that new 997.2 Turbo PDK will be faster then 430 Scud and 599 Fiorano-both acceleration wise and on the track... OK...

     No,faster than the Fiorano on track and acceleration, near the Scuderia in straight line acceleration but not in track time.     


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    reginos:
    KresoF1:

    "Bare in mind that the 911 also defy laws of physics by out performing lighter cars that posses a more powerful engne."

    Huh... Lighter and more powerfull sportscar that are slower(accleration and track wise) then current 997.2 models??? Which one please?

     

    Check and see which cars do around 7.50 or less at the NBR. Only the creme de la creme of the automobile industry, exotic cars, multicylinder engines, cars practically undrivable outside a piste and costing thousands of Euro more.



    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    And none of them is lighter and less powerfull then current 997.2 models.

    OK, Panamera is becoming religion like object of worship. I do not like that idea at all...

     

    For me Panamera is unique looking car. I do not hate or love it-simply not my cup of tea. Technically kudos to Posche for it...

            


    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    Further news out of the Autobild Video:

    There will be a base Panamera V6 - 300 HP and 75.000,-€ which would be cheaper as an S-Class!


    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    Emperor:
    ed_moree:

    Panamera S
    12.5 l/100km (10.8 PDK)

    Panamera 4S PDK
    11.1 l/100km

    Panamera Turbo PDK
    12.2 l/100km

    Regarding the  fuel consumption... I doubt that is possible... maybe if you push the car instead of driving it! Here some of you that have the Cayenne may say how it is, because are the same engines... but... Smiley I don´t believe it!


    --
    ALL PORSCHE ARE REAL PORSCHE!!!

    I'm afraid it is fully possible. It's the same case with the BMW X6, it weigh the same as a Cayenne GTS and has identical power output but get's its ass spanked by the X6 when it comes to acceleration and fuel economy.

    Bare in mind tha tthe official fuel economy figures are just an indication. Fuel economy in real life obviously varies as people buying these cars will obviously push they hard for full enjoyment.

    Ok it is that the only measurement from Porsche that I have heard that noboy managed to match was the fuel consumption in the Cayenne. So if you have a car similar have more experience than me in this matter. 

            


    --
    ALL PORSCHE ARE REAL PORSCHE!!!

    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    Lars997:

    Further news out of the Autobild Video:

    There will be a base Panamera V6 - 300 HP and 75.000,-€ which would be cheaper as an S-Class!


            In 10 yrs from now, I will buy that one!!! Smiley


    --
    ALL PORSCHE ARE REAL PORSCHE!!!

    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    Turbo S with 520hp+ will probably land at 150k.

    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    Spain prices...105k S, 150k Turbo

    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    Emperor:
    Turbo S with 520hp+ will probably land at 150k.

            An italian magazine (I think wrongly) wrote that the turbo S will have more than 600hp....


    --
    Dedi La vita è troppo corta per non guidare italiano.....

    Re: Panamera - Not a good start

    Lars997:

    118078.jpg

     and ..... why to put black carpets in a creme colored interior? Does this make it bi-colored???

    The carpet is actually dark blue, to match the dash.


     
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