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    PCCB Replacement

    Sergini and other track freaks ,

    After 6500 kms and four intensive track days, I'm sending the 911 to my dealer for a health check up (Brake fluid replacement, tyre replacement and possibly brake pads replacement).

    Now, I am well aware that the Ceramic brakes do not last the supposed 300000 kms but I thought that if you change your pads regularly (and on time!), then the disks would last quite a bit.

    To my surprise, the revision expert at my dealership told me they do indeed last longer than Steel brakes but you still need to replace them approx. every two or three sets of brake pads.

    Is that consistent with your experience? I thought they would last longer than that!

    My main issue is obviously cost, at 14000 Euros, the four disks are not exactly cheap, although I was well aware of the high maintenance, I didn't think it'd be that frequent.

    Thanks for your advice.

    Re: PCCB Replacement

    Fanch,

    van zweeden(Porsche parts independent in Holland) do a complete PCCB set (discs, pads and callipers) for 8000Euros, so you can probably buy the discs for half that price from them.

    Regular track day guys in the UK swap out the PCCB discs to steel, to save on cost - PCCB are prone to chipping from gravel traps etc

    Re: PCCB Replacement

    they are simply to expensive for the track...particlar on technical tracks which make cooling difficult.

    you should consider steel.

    Re: PCCB Replacement

    I might switch, we'll see, depends on how often I track the car.
    I haven't tried a 911S with steel brakes but I've heard the pedal feel is not as good, nor is the endurance.

    It's not so much the cost of replacement but the longevity of the PCCB that surprises me.

    How long do steel disks last for (number of track days)?

    I know that a 911 Cup changes disks every two races but it's not comparable.

    Thanks anyway.

    Re: PCCB Replacement

    Thanks for the advice, I'll consider it although I tend to avoid independant distributers but this could be worth it.

    Aren't steel disks just as proned to chipping as PCCB?

    Re: PCCB Replacement

    PCCB are still not economically viable. I also question if most buyers can really feel the benefits from lower weight and "feel" as you call it. Never heard much complaining about steel breaks either.

    as for changing well it is down to the driver, the useage, etc.

    Personally, there are better ways to spend money on the car and driver than PCCBs

    Re: PCCB Replacement

    Once again, it's really not about the money.
    I question here the longevity of PCCB.
    How often do 911 owners who track their cars change their steel brakes?
    Thanks.

    Re: PCCB Replacement

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    Once again, it's really not about the money.
    I question here the longevity of PCCB.
    How often do 911 owners who track their cars change their steel brakes?
    Thanks.


    Steel rotors would last about 15-30 times to the track (DE, not racing) as a rough estimate. Of course there are variables like the pads you use, how fast you drive, how long you drive, the tires you use (track tires are much harder on brakes) and how demanding the track is for braking...

    Re: PCCB Replacement

    "I also question if most buyers can really feel the benefits from lower weight and "feel" as you call it. Never heard much complaining about steel breaks either."



    Although it was a Cab, my previous car had the 996 steel brakes and the pedal is much more "spongious", with close to no feel when you press it slightly.
    Maybe it's different with the 997.

    As for endurance on the track, the PCCB are simply stupendous! After 40 minutes, they brake just as hard as the 1st lap, it's the tyres that are limiting to the handling under heavy braking.

    But for the gain in handling due to lower unsprung weight, you are right, I must admit I cannot tell if the benefit is huge or not, I just trusted RC and he's never failed me!

    Re: PCCB Replacement

    Thanks Grant,
    That sounds about right for me.

    Re: PCCB Replacement

    Fanck ,i know your problem ,consider that my car has now ..........49000 km : a lot of trackdays (monza is a beast for brakes, 3 porsche club "races" and i made 90-100 laps on the Nordscleife 2000 km ! with medium lap times in 8:40) ..

    first question : wich kind of brake pads do you use ? u can't use the original pccb braks in the track , theese pads made the rotor too hot and the ceramic soffer a lot . if you want to use your pccb on safety (for them)you can use only Pagid Yellow (race endurance pads) or green (porsche motorport carrera cup pads) ........

    the problem is that the ceramic rotor needs a good cooling after a trakday : you can make 100 laps in Monza without rotors problems if you ,after the "run" let cool them for a few laps without touching the brake pedal .

    now my rotors are bad because it's impossible cooling the brakes in the turistenfarhten in the Nordschleife because at the end of any lap you MUST exit and a lot of time there was a cue .

    the stress for pccb is enormous ......

    in my opinion is crazy spending 10000 euros for 4 rotors ,better mounting 996 gt3 cup brake rotors (very very cheap!) .

    consider that porsche change in warranty the rotors ( try !!!!!!!!) or if it's impossible try theese options :

    in the front you can mount the 350 mm rotor with the original pccb caliper ,for the rear you need to change rotor and caliper because the rear rotor is 330 ......

    look here : on http://www.carnewal-europe.com/main.htm

    GT2 Steel Brake Package.
    This package comes with every part needed to change the ceramic brakes to the steel brakes of the GT2.
    Comes with the front and rear steel disks, brake pads, warning contacts, rear calipers and other hardware that is needed for this conversion.
    The front disks have a diameter of 350mm which is the same diameter as the ceramic brake disks.
    The rear steel disks are 330mm.
    The color of the rear calipers is yellow, just like the ceramics.
    The package is available with the standard front rotors or with the GT3 Cup rotors.
    Price : 2.995 Euro shipping included. Dollar Conversion

    Same package but with front GT3 Cup disks :
    2.795 Euro shipping included. Dollar Conversion
    Replaces the original brake parts.
    All Factory parts.
    The price for this complete package is less than the cost for one ceramic disk.


    or ,if you prefer you can put in your car the best brake set of the world : 380mm brembo gran turismo kit :

    http://www.brembo.com/CatalogoHPGT/Templ...T=NoModifyGuest


    here the pic : https://store.venuecom.com/upload/pimages/1110926945.jpg


    consider that the 996 gt3 cup is a racing car ,so for a street car the cup rotors are the best and the granturismo brakes are similar to the Fia-Gt brakes ...

    Re: PCCB Replacement

    listen to Sergio Fanch! however it's incredible that PCCB has still problems

    Re: PCCB Replacement

    Sergini,
    Thank you so much for your detailed answer!
    Andrea,
    I am definitely listening to Ring meister, no worries!
    I do not believe that PCCB have a problem, I just think Porsche is not 100% honest when they claim that the disks will last 300,000 km! They will, but only if you drive like a granny going to Starbucks every weekend!

    Sergini,
    A couple of final questions please

    1 Can you order those special brake pads thourgh your official dealer? (Pagid, green, etc.) and are they noisy for road use?

    2 With your car and nearly 50,000 km (incl. loads of tracks driving) are you still on your first set of PCCB rotors?

    Thanks again. I will use you advice on pads and when time comes to change, I will consider GT2 or Cup steel brakes, we'll see.

    Thank you also on reminding my that the rotors need more cooling than the their steel equivalent!


    Re: PCCB Replacement

    I can say this, that at the Porsche Driving Experience in the US they had 4-5 Carrera S with PCCB. They have accumulated more than 8,000+ "track" only miles at Barber Motorsports Park, a BIG braking track, driven by everybody from experienced pro drivers to people with little track experience and know little about proper braking technique.
    Other than Pad replacement the rotors seem to have held up just fine and "look" brand new.
    A pretty good test bed for PCCB!


    Re: PCCB Replacement

    tomorrow l'ill post a pic of my front rotors ,my Porsche motorsport dealer say that they are good . for me looks horribe .......

    please post also a pic of your rotors so we can compare our rotors .

    remember that if your rear rotors are fine (mine are in perfect conditions) it's possible that porsche cange them in warranty .

    obviously you must say that your car was never in track .....

    Re: PCCB Replacement

    Maybe a bit of topic... But I have recognized two things with my PCCB.

    1. They squeak when breaking... Can this perhaps be due to that the car need some serious breaks to eliminate this? The car has been garaged last months and I noticed this when I took a drive this weekend.

    2. After washing the car the brakes really suffer from all water and the braking distance is horrible the first couple of brake-ins. There is a noticable difference from my previous boxster 987 where I had normal steel-brakes.

    Anyone in here experienced the same?

    If the durability is worse than what Porsche is telling us in theire adverticing shouldnt this be a re-call and cost free upgrade to PCCB generation 3

    /Lukas

    Re: PCCB Replacement

    Great news Trundle thanks a lot.
    8,000 miles of trackday with only one set of PCCB is stupendous.
    This is what I'm looking for right now, as much information and advice as possible.

    Re: PCCB Replacement

    Ok Sergini, car is at dealer right now but I'll do my best to get a picture of the front rotor over next weekend.
    Looks brand new to me though.

    You say you use a Porsche Motorsport dealer, is he an official dealer?

    Re: PCCB Replacement

    Quote:
    Lukas said:
    1. They squeak when breaking... Can this perhaps be due to that the car need some serious breaks to eliminate this? The car has been garaged last months and I noticed this when I took a drive this weekend.

    2. After washing the car the brakes really suffer from all water and the braking distance is horrible the first couple of brake-ins. There is a noticable difference from my previous boxster 987 where I had normal steel-brakes.




    Hi Lukas,
    1. My brakes don't squeak. Maybe a tiny bit when braking from very low speeds but I don't pay much attention. It was much worse with PCCB mk1.
    There is indeed a break in procedure for brakes. Fritz can help you for that. It's called brake conditionning and consist in braking a couple of times very hard from about 150 kmh.

    2. I've read that before on the forum and must admit I've never had this problem. Only washed the car twice but no problem at all.

    Re: PCCB Replacement

    Here is a rotor photo...needs pads....4000 track only miles at PDE in the US


    Re: PCCB Replacement

    Sergini,

    Sorry I forgot to take a picture of my disk but dealer told me the brakes are 100% fine and there's plenty of pads left!

    I've also been told that Pagid brake pads are very good for the steel brakes but not necessary for Carbon Ceramic. (and very noisy for street use).

    I asked for high temperature brake fluid but they won't do it in an official dealership so I just purged the whole braking system with the original.

    The four tyres however are totally smoked (after only 6500 km) and getting them changed, sticking with the very good P Zero Rosso.

    Will take a pic of disk in a couple of weeks, in the meantime, this is a from Magny Cours' official photographer (hence the copyright sign) to prove that after 80 minutes of 220 kmh to 30 kmh, PCCB brakes harldy suffer at all!
    Good stuff!

    Re: PCCB Replacement

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    Although it was a Cab, my previous car had the 996 steel brakes and the pedal is much more "spongious", with close to no feel when you press it slightly.
    Maybe it's different with the 997.




    No, drove both back to back at what is called a depositors day here in the UK, a day at Millbrook testing ground driving different spec cars so you can get an idea on what to spec. Drove PCCB first with several stops from 100mph. Then did the same in C2 non S, non PCCB. Stopping power was good in both but pedal feel was very spongy in the latter.

     
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