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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Whoopsy:

    It's just the nature of trying to put down so much power using only 2 rear wheels and on street tire. 

    For someone with skills, it's immense fun, for those that don't then it's death trap.

     

    Very few have skills to handle this car. Based on the video its almost unmanageable and that's with a professional driver.


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    When you're going through hell.....keep going.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Let the pharmacist handle it... 🤗😂


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    nberry:
    Whoopsy:

    It's just the nature of trying to put down so much power using only 2 rear wheels and on street tire. 

    For someone with skills, it's immense fun, for those that don't then it's death trap.

     

    Very few have skills to handle this car. Based on the video its almost unmanageable and that's with a professional driver.

     

    Video is deceiving. One has no idea how how the driver is opening up the throttle on exits. He could be booting it hard just to kick the tail out on purpose.

    Gently squeezing it will manage the tire slip better. Boot it and the tail will boot out also. For the skilled ones, Booting and catching is the fun part. 

    I have to imagine this car is actually easier to to drive than say a F12/812/etc. Those have a light rear end, my old F12 is already borderline underivable on the street. Lost count how many times the tail came out even with a gentle squeezing of throttle.

     


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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    you guys read too much into the video of which the heavy load right before the exist is purposely for entertainment....  Camera mounted on rear tire.... it has to get some smoke out for drama.... I am sure if a pro trying to get the best figures wouldn't drive like that.....   and sure Porsche GTs are still best valued weapon, but does it pop the best figure on the track, I am sure in the following month the test reports will certainly show some hard results.  lets just wait and see if LT live up with its name... and also 765pcs coupe is probably sold out already anyways.....   


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Looks much better than the 720. 


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    RC:

    I have to give McLaren one thing: They know how to f.ck with the competition. Today Porsche presented the new 911 Turbo S. Even if I compare it to the 720S only, I think Porsche is way behind in performance and style.

     

    McLaren builds great cars Smiley However, I am not convinced of your relative view on the new turbo. High-speed acceleration of the 720s is still a bit better - but not much. In contrast, the turbo is such a refined and perfect package. Track performance will also be quite good with the 4cm wider front.

    Also, with a small producer like McLaren technological shifts come unexpected: Did you realize that recent production 720s seem to be quite a bit slower than earlier examples? They needed to adjust to the new EU regulations. This would never happen with a turbo s (or another Porsche)... 


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    A guy in our weekend driving group has a 720S and while this car is a lot to handle (he is a good driver but if he plays with the traction control too much, well... angry), on the Autobahn, over 200 kph, the 720S is just...gone. High speed performance of the 720S is brutal, very close to the 918 for example (the 918 is surprisingly still faster at higher speeds). One reason I do not like driving on the Autobahn with these guys, most of the cars are similar in performance and me and my poor Lambo (and another GT3 RS guy) are the slowest. laugh On the Autobahn. 

    I wouldn't be surprised if new emissions/noise regulations forced McLaren to "adjust" performance but it is also possible that, with the arrival of the 765LT, they just wanted to make sure that the 720S delivers the 720 hp promised, not the close to 800 hp measured in many real world experience 720S. They need the 765LT to be faster, even straight line and it is no secret that many 720S deliver 770, 780 or even close to 800 hp.

    Does someone actually know the price tag of the 765LT?


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    RC:

     

    Does someone actually know the price tag of the 765LT?


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     

    I think 275k GBP was quoted. Haven't seen prices for European market yet.


    --

    1969 Mercedes-Benz 300SEL 6.3  / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS (sold) / 2011 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Performance / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2018 Porsche 911 GT3 Clubsport


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Porker:
    RC:

     

    Does someone actually know the price tag of the 765LT?


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     

    I think 275k GBP was quoted. Haven't seen prices for European market yet.

    Thank you, sounds competitive. Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    RC, the "close to 800 hp" measurements are done using crappy measurement devices/techniques.

    On the latest Maha MSR500 the 720 is where it is programmed and homologated from the factory.

    These are pre tuning measurements on different 720s on different days on Maha MSR500





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    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

    2018 McLaren 720S 

    993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    MKSGR:
    : Did you realize that recent production 720s seem to be quite a bit slower than earlier examples? They needed to adjust to the new EU regulations. This would never happen with a turbo s (or another Porsche)... 

    Marcus, I had noticed that, what do you think they may have done to neuter the beast ?


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    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

    2018 McLaren 720S 

    993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    RC:

    A guy in our weekend driving group has a 720S and while this car is a lot to handle (he is a good driver but if he plays with the traction control too much, well... angry), on the Autobahn, over 200 kph, the 720S is just...gone. High speed performance of the 720S is brutal, very close to the 918 for example (the 918 is surprisingly still faster at higher speeds). One reason I do not like driving on the Autobahn with these guys, most of the cars are similar in performance and me and my poor Lambo (and another GT3 RS guy) are the slowest. laugh On the Autobahn. 

    I wouldn't be surprised if new emissions/noise regulations forced McLaren to "adjust" performance but it is also possible that, with the arrival of the 765LT, they just wanted to make sure that the 720S delivers the 720 hp promised, not the close to 800 hp measured in many real world experience 720S. They need the 765LT to be faster, even straight line and it is no secret that many 720S deliver 770, 780 or even close to 800 hp.

    Does someone actually know the price tag of the 765LT?


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     

    I heard rumours related to OPF/emission targets you need to match for first time EU vehicle registrations Smiley


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    A couple of car magazines tested the 720S on the dyno and power was always above factory claim (I do not remember how much though). It is of course possible that they made some mistakes but it cannot be a coincidence that we always hear of 720S having more power than the factory claim. It makes sense considering the Autobahn performance.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    RC:

    A couple of car magazines tested the 720S on the dyno and power was always above factory claim (I do not remember how much though). It is of course possible that they made some mistakes but it cannot be a coincidence that we always hear of 720S having more power than the factory claim. It makes sense considering the Autobahn performance.

     

    Virtually all of the dynos in the US are all cheaper machines which do what their customers want, every 720s which is put on the expensive Maha MSR500, the one the manufacturers use, comes out like the four I showed above.

    One shouldn't be fixated on the peak power number, the 720S power curve from the engine dyno ie properly braked at each point shows is has over 700hp from 6500rpm to 8000rpm this is an extremely fat curve and means there is always more than 700hp coming from the motor during acceleration it is this combined with seamless gear changes, slippery aero and low drive train losses and some alien tech which makes the 720 quicker than rivals even with its only peak 720PS.

     


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    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

    2018 McLaren 720S 

    993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Pista well down on power versus 720s

    https://www.motor1.com/news/402397/mclaren-720s-ferrari-pista-dyno/


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    Tesla Model S P100d. 2018 991.2 GT3. 2019 BMW M850i Convertible. 2020 Tesla Model 3 Performance. 2020 Aston Martin Vantage. 2020 Mclaren 720S coupe. 🥳


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Somehow, I don't believe in drivetrains taking X% of power to run.

    A gearbox, drivetrain, are just a bunch of gears meshed together and needed some power to overcome friction to run. It should be a set, specific number. 

    A C4S and a turbo have the same gearbox, drivetrain, it's hard to believe the same parts installed in the turbo will suddenly become more restricted and needing extra HP just to turn it. 

    Only thing I can think of that makes it harder to turn the same drivetrain is that it is heavier, that's about it.

     

     


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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Heard today from a interested buyer for 765 LT that the model would be sold out.

    Anyone else hearing this too?

     


    --

    Ferrari 488 Pista / Lotus Exige Cup 430 Type 25 / AMG GTR / 991.1 GT3 RS / Cayman GT4 / 997.2 GT3 RS 3.8 / 997.2 GT3 / 981 GT4 / Lotus Exige S / 964 Turbo 3.3


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Whoopsy:

    Somehow, I don't believe in drivetrains taking X% of power to run.

    I think in reality it's neither a percentage nor a fixed amount, but a more complicated formula (and difficult to mathematically model - this is why an engine dyno is only way to accurately measure a motor).  Chassis dyno is only useful for making comparisons between things (but not for making an accurate measurement on its own).


    --

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    And also the architecture of the gearbox itself, more gears means more and harder to turn initially, but takes less energy to keep them moving as the parts itself have momentum to keep them turning.

     


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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    GoHardGT3RS:

    Heard today from a interested buyer for 765 LT that the model would be sold out.

    Anyone else hearing this too?

     

    I got offered a reservation yesterday, so don't think that's true... I didn't even ask for it.


    --

    1969 Mercedes-Benz 300SEL 6.3  / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS (sold) / 2011 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Performance / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2018 Porsche 911 GT3 Clubsport


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Porker:
    GoHardGT3RS:

    Heard today from a interested buyer for 765 LT that the model would be sold out.

    Anyone else hearing this too?

     

    I got offered a reservation yesterday, so don't think that's true... I didn't even ask for it.

    I doubt it’s sold out as well. It’s value here in the UK will tank quickly.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    crayphile:
    Porker:
    GoHardGT3RS:

    Heard today from a interested buyer for 765 LT that the model would be sold out.

    Anyone else hearing this too?

     

    I got offered a reservation yesterday, so don't think that's true... I didn't even ask for it.

    I doubt it’s sold out as well. It’s value here in the UK will tank quickly.

    They reckon the UK will get 15% of the cars so 115 cars which is 19 cars per dealer, are there really that many people per dealer gonna shell out £300+K per car which will lose £100K in its first year ?


    --

     

     

    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

    2018 McLaren 720S 

    993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Do you reckon the LT will lose that much? The 675LT seems to hold on to its value relatively well? 

    If it does, it would be a steal in a year...


    --

    1969 Mercedes-Benz 300SEL 6.3  / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS (sold) / 2011 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Performance / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2018 Porsche 911 GT3 Clubsport


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    In Germany the cheapest 675 spider 4 years old is 270.000 €

    for me an excellent value 


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    AM


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    ALDO:

    In Germany the cheapest 675 spider 4 years old is 270.000 €

    for me an excellent value 

     

    ... and 675 LT Coupe start at 215.000 € in Germany

    >>> we can assume that 765 LT will suffer from similar depreciation with 265 units produced vs. the 675 LT (more than +50%)


    --

    Ferrari 488 Pista / Lotus Exige Cup 430 Type 25 / AMG GTR / 991.1 GT3 RS / Cayman GT4 / 997.2 GT3 RS 3.8 / 997.2 GT3 / 981 GT4 / Lotus Exige S / 964 Turbo 3.3


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Porker:

    Do you reckon the LT will lose that much? The 675LT seems to hold on to its value relatively well? 

    If it does, it would be a steal in a year...

    For sure in the UK. The market is saturated with high performance mid- engined cars... and now speedsters Smiley.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    GoHardGT3RS:
    ALDO:

    In Germany the cheapest 675 spider 4 years old is 270.000 €

    for me an excellent value 

     

    ... and 675 LT Coupe start at 215.000 € in Germany

    >>> we can assume that 765 LT will suffer from similar depreciation with 265 units produced vs. the 675 LT (more than +50%)

    Yes a five year old for 215.000€.

    the cheapest 911 turbo five year old is about 90.000€

    Do the math which had lost more in percentage 


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    AM


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    You can hear the sounds of a bubble about to, if not burst, certainly get squeezed.

    This morning on the radio I heard a commercial from the local Aston Martin dealership advertising their lease rates on the Vantage.

    I've also started receiving mail offering me great deals on the 992.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    ALDO:
    GoHardGT3RS:
    ALDO:

    In Germany the cheapest 675 spider 4 years old is 270.000 €

    for me an excellent value 

     

    ... and 675 LT Coupe start at 215.000 € in Germany

    >>> we can assume that 765 LT will suffer from similar depreciation with 265 units produced vs. the 675 LT (more than +50%)

    Yes a five year old for 215.000€.

    the cheapest 911 turbo five year old is about 90.000€

    Do the math which had lost more in percentage 

    My view on this is:

    1) What hurts my wallet is not a % but the absolute amount lost.

    2) About 150K€ depreciation over 5 years on a 500 unit limited car is simply very poor.

    But just my opinion and a different one is fine of course!


    --

    Ferrari 488 Pista / Lotus Exige Cup 430 Type 25 / AMG GTR / 991.1 GT3 RS / Cayman GT4 / 997.2 GT3 RS 3.8 / 997.2 GT3 / 981 GT4 / Lotus Exige S / 964 Turbo 3.3


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    You could not expect to have the same lost in value when you drive a Porsche and a Dacia.

     


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    AM


     
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