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    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    reginos:

    IMO for those who like the more recent Ferrari mid engined style (from F430 onwards) , the most recent 488 Spider will definitely do.

    Anything else that is said is just nitpicking.

    Styling wise the Huracan (and the previous Gallardo) appeal to me more than recent Ferraris. But let's face it if all is taken together (exotic style, performance, name and heritage) Ferrari own the category.

    i like the hurricane as well, except that i get a claustrophobic feeling inside.

    peter


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    pmarkow:
    reginos:

    IMO for those who like the more recent Ferrari mid engined style (from F430 onwards) , the most recent 488 Spider will definitely do.

    Anything else that is said is just nitpicking.

    Styling wise the Huracan (and the previous Gallardo) appeal to me more than recent Ferraris. But let's face it if all is taken together (exotic style, performance, name and heritage) Ferrari own the category.

    i like the hurricane as well, except that i get a claustrophobic feeling inside.

    peter

    All lambos feel like this at the beginning. It goes away once u spend few hours with the car. 


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    I think Lambos are the most exotic cars on the market,  the advanced cabin (kind like a Jet fighter plane) really gives a unique stance to these cars. A Ferrari F12 or 458 really pales next to Huracan or Aventador, Lambos are so much more dramatic to look at, I love it, still my choice would go to Ferrari , it may be bizarre to say this, but Ferrari are much more discret than Lambo.


    --

    J.Seven

    997.2 Cab 2S

    Maserati Quattroporte Sport GTS

    BMW X6 4.0D

     


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    I love it. Unfortunately getting one here in NY will be such a pain I am not even going to try. Will stick with my TTS cab. 


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    Whoopsy:

    I quite like the spider version. But There are still a couple styling points I am puzzled by them.

    The tail pipes, the 488 is THE car to go back to the F40's triple pipes, not the 458. In the 458 it was just gimmick but it can serve a real purpose on the 488 like the F40. Failed on Ferrari's part.

    The front end is absolutely dreadful, maybe a step up from the McLaren 650/P1 front end. It's just plain bad. That bumper is designed by someone really lazy, someone who had 2 years to design a nice one but he waited till the last 5 minutes to draw one up. 

    The front bumper is the only thing that stands between me standing pat and me ordering one. I loved the rest of the 488. 

    +1.

    Front bumper is so "linear", so out of place with the rest of the car. And so boring.

     


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    koko:
    pmarkow:
    reginos:

    IMO for those who like the more recent Ferrari mid engined style (from F430 onwards) , the most recent 488 Spider will definitely do.

    Anything else that is said is just nitpicking.

    Styling wise the Huracan (and the previous Gallardo) appeal to me more than recent Ferraris. But let's face it if all is taken together (exotic style, performance, name and heritage) Ferrari own the category.

    i like the hurricane as well, except that i get a claustrophobic feeling inside.

    peter

    All lambos feel like this at the beginning. It goes away once u spend few hours with the car. 

    i spent days with lambos and it gets worse in my case:::(((

    peter


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    Nick, I agree with you regarding the front end of the 488. Just a lack of imagination and creativity. Nevertheless, the car still looks terrific.


    --

    Of little, to make much: That is the dream of a human life.


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

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    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    If only I can spec a 488 with the Speciale's front end...............


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    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    Whoopsy:

    If only I can spec a 488 with the Speciale's front end...............

     

    I saw a reg italia once with a Speciale front.


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    There are a few running around, but the Italia styling was too tame to be able to match the aggressive front treatment. The 488 has that aggressive styling in order to match up.


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    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    as an italia owner i got tired of its front end design very fast. i like the 488 front end much better, it even beats the speciale in my view.

    peter


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    pmarkow:

    as an italia owner i got tired of its front end design very fast. i like the 488 front end much better, it even beats the speciale in my view.

    peter


    Same here. Smiley

    I was never a fan of the Speciale's front. Yes, it looks better than that of the standard Italia which is too tame looking, but IMO they've overdone it with the Speciale (front and whole styling that is).
    Speciale's styling isn't able to hold a candle to that of a Scuderia versus a F430 or a Challenge Stradale versus a F360.


    --

     

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

     


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    pmarkow:

    as an italia owner i got tired of its front end design very fast. i like the 488 front end much better, it even beats the speciale in my view.

    peter

    It seems u r not the only one Smiley

    http://www.20min.ch/schweiz/zuerich/story/Millionaerssohn--19--liess-seinen-Ferrari-abfackeln-29533161

    The son of a swiss business man payed some guys in Germany to destroy his 458 (burn it) infront of a bordello because he did not know how to tell his dad that the 458 already bores him since he wanted the newer model (Speciale), that is after six months of ownership. So he decided to try and collect the insurance and make it seem like an accident. Before they burnt it he put some cheaper wheels on it and dismantled the carbon parts.

    He got 1 year and 10 months of probation as well as a 30'000 Euro fine.


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    Inheritance of big money with a small brain is a hard job....indecision


    --

    Being polite is so rare these days that it's often confused with flirting.


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    koko:
    pmarkow:

    as an italia owner i got tired of its front end design very fast. i like the 488 front end much better, it even beats the speciale in my view.

    peter

    It seems u r not the only one Smiley

    http://www.20min.ch/schweiz/zuerich/story/Millionaerssohn--19--liess-seinen-Ferrari-abfackeln-29533161

    The son of a swiss business man payed some guys in Germany to destroy his 458 (burn it) infront of a bordello because he did not know how to tell his dad that the 458 already bores him since he wanted the newer model (Speciale), that is after six months of ownership. So he decided to try and collect the insurance and make it seem like an accident. Before they burnt it he put some cheaper wheels on it and dismantled the carbon parts.

    He got 1 year and 10 months of probation as well as a 30'000 Euro fine.

    That kid should've been inside the car. such an idiot. 

    About crashing cars to collect insurance, it happens a lot here, there's actually people you can pay (like US$ 1000) to crash your car for you so you can collect the insurance. So local insurance companies have become really tough on accidents taking forever to pay, even when you're in an actual accident. 



    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    koko:

    Ferrari 488 GTB Spits Flames During 186 MPH Sprint - Video

    https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=http://www.autoevolution.com/news/ferrari-488-gtb-spits-flames-during-186-mph-...

    It seems to be the rev limiter is @ around 7500 like the car I had test driven in Hungaroring. Ferrari states that the max. power is achieved @8000 rpm but the cars are limited to 7500. It is really weird. 

    And also, has anyone noticed the muted engine/exhaust sound from the cabin, compared to 458.

    From the video, 165-300 km/h acceleration is roughly 20 sec.


    --

     

    ONUR

     

    THE BEST CAR EVER smiley

    11 E92 M3 CP - 09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

     


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    pride355:
    koko:

    Ferrari 488 GTB Spits Flames During 186 MPH Sprint - Video

    https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=http://www.autoevolution.com/news/ferrari-488-gtb-spits-flames-during-186-mph-...

    It seems to be the rev limiter is @ around 7500 like the car I had test driven in Hungaroring. Ferrari states that the max. power is achieved @8000 rpm but the cars are limited to 7500. It is really weird. 

    And also, has anyone noticed the muted engine/exhaust sound from the cabin, compared to 458.

    From the video, 165-300 km/h acceleration is roughly 20 sec.
     


    I start to think Ferrari made a big mistake. I'm not that concerned about the lost noise from the exhaust, I mean times are changing and I don't  always want a screaming car, even if accelerating hard. The V8-Ferrari were sometimes a bit too much for my taste.

    But where they really went wrong is with the max rev. They should have given the 488 GTB a max rev of 8.500 rpm, just like their competitors from McLaren. 8.500 rpm would mean the same level as a F430, F360 or F355, which should be sufficient, but 8.000 rpm or maybe even 7.500 rpm in lower gears as suspected, is just not enough for a car like a Ferrari, especially if it has this much power to exploit. Smiley


    --

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    Funny that you are talking about a higher rev figure on a turbo charged car.

    I told the same to the 991 Turbo S development team when I provided my "feedback" and you know what they asked me? "What for?". They claimed that higher rev figures are not necessary and even counter-productive on turbo charged cars. They may have a point but of course I cannot verify it, I'm no engineer.

    I wonder why McLaren is doing this and why Porsche would consider it to be "counter-productive" and "unnecessary". yes


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    Yeah, I know that high revs are not exactly what you want or need on a turbo engine. Ferrari officials said the same at the 488 presentation in Geneva, the new technology simply doesn't need the high revs of the old car, in fact high revs are counter productive on a turbo engine.

    Nevertheless I think that a drop in rev figures from 9.000 to 8.000 or even 7.500 rpm is the wrong way for a Ferrari. Part of the special experience of a Ferrari has always been the high revving engine, since the F355 the V8 had a maximum rev figure of 8.500, Italia/Speciale has 9.000, even the V12 in the F12 climbs up to 8.700 rpm.

    I haven't driven the 488 to date, but I simply fear that about 1.000 rpm are missing. Smiley


    --

     

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

     


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    NA engines needs revs to make power, turbocharged engine doesn't. That's why they say no need.

    But they forgot the part where we LIKE the sound of high revving engine, power is not everything.

    McLaren gets that and make theirs goes to 8500rpm. My wife still thinks my old 12 sounds the best, even over the 2 V12 Ferraris.

     


    --

     

     


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    Whoopsy:

    NA engines needs revs to make power, turbocharged engine doesn't. That's why they say no need.

    But they forgot the part where we LIKE the sound of high revving engine, power is not everything.

    McLaren gets that and make theirs goes to 8500rpm. My wife still thinks my old 12 sounds the best, even over the 2 V12 Ferraris.

     


    Well said. Smiley

    They could have the power of the turbocharged with sound of the high revving engine, even if the latter is not really needed. I really don't get it, why Ferrari missed that opportunity. If they can build an engine with variable torque through the gears to mimic NA, this should be possible as well.

    Interesting that your wife prefers McLaren-turbocharged-V8 over Ferrari-NA-V12. Convincing your wife from the opposite, one more opportunity Ferrari left out. Smiley


    --

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    I prefer my Aston V8 sound over Ferrari V8 and V12 by a long shot...


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    RC:

    Funny that you are talking about a higher rev figure on a turbo charged car.

    I told the same to the 991 Turbo S development team when I provided my "feedback" and you know what they asked me? "What for?". They claimed that higher rev figures are not necessary and even counter-productive on turbo charged cars. They may have a point but of course I cannot verify it, I'm no engineer.

    I wonder why McLaren is doing this and why Porsche would consider it to be "counter-productive" and "unnecessary". yes

    At a guess I'd say that higher revs are deemed to be counter-productive in turbo engines because Porsche is probably aiming primarily for optimised brake specific fuel consumption when developing its engines, and the best bsfc figures are achieved in the intermediate rev range.
    (Brake specific fuel consumption is measured in terms of grams of fuel per hp hour, and varies considerably for a given engine with changes of certain parameters under which the fuel is burnt. These parameters include engine revs and boost pressure).

    Porsche needs to do this to reduce CO2 emissions, which are directly related to fuel consumption. 

    CO2 emissions now directly influence the annual taxes due for operating cars in many important markets, so their reduction is much more important to a manufacturer of 200,000+ cars/annum over a large price range, like Porsche, than they are for a manufacturer of just 4,000 cars/annum in a market segment where the level of annual operating tax is not of such great significance to the cars' buyers, such as McLaren. 


    --

    fritz


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    Rossi:
    They could have the power of the turbocharged with sound of the high revving engine, even if the latter is not really needed. I really don't get it, why Ferrari missed that opportunity. If they can build an engine with variable torque through the gears to mimic NA, this should be possible as well.

     

    I think part of the problem is that it takes a big turbocharger to supply enough air flow to make good boost at 9k rpm, but that same turbocharger will have poor response at lower revs. 


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    fritz:
    RC:

    Funny that you are talking about a higher rev figure on a turbo charged car.

    I told the same to the 991 Turbo S development team when I provided my "feedback" and you know what they asked me? "What for?". They claimed that higher rev figures are not necessary and even counter-productive on turbo charged cars. They may have a point but of course I cannot verify it, I'm no engineer.

    I wonder why McLaren is doing this and why Porsche would consider it to be "counter-productive" and "unnecessary". yes

    At a guess I'd say that higher revs are deemed to be counter-productive in turbo engines because Porsche is probably aiming primarily for optimised brake specific fuel consumption when developing its engines, and the best bsfc figures are achieved in the intermediate rev range.
    (Brake specific fuel consumption is measured in terms of grams of fuel per hp hour, and varies considerably for a given engine with changes of certain parameters under which the fuel is burnt. These parameters include engine revs and boost pressure).

    Porsche needs to do this to reduce CO2 emissions, which are directly related to fuel consumption. 

    CO2 emissions now directly influence the annual taxes due for operating cars in many important markets, so their reduction is much more important to a manufacturer of 200,000+ cars/annum over a large price range, like Porsche, than they are for a manufacturer of just 4,000 cars/annum in a market segment where the level of annual operating tax is not of such great significance to the cars' buyers, such as McLaren. 

    Fritz, excellent information.Smiley


    --

     

    Of little, to make much: That is the dream of a human life.

     


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    RC:

    Funny that you are talking about a higher rev figure on a turbo charged car.

    I told the same to the 991 Turbo S development team when I provided my "feedback" and you know what they asked me? "What for?". They claimed that higher rev figures are not necessary and even counter-productive on turbo charged cars. They may have a point but of course I cannot verify it, I'm no engineer.

    I wonder why McLaren is doing this and why Porsche would consider it to be "counter-productive" and "unnecessary". yes

    Because I run out of gears pretty quickly  Smiley and I can hear the engine screaming starting from 4,500 rpm and before you know it, I'm changing gears and the noise is already gone Smiley

    I hate the fact that they went from 7,300 rpm on the 959 down to 6,750 rpm on the Turbo/GT2 (996/997) when they were offering manuals Smiley

    https://youtu.be/au2v9TNnqHc

     

     

     


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    SciFrog:

    I prefer my Aston V8 sound over Ferrari V8 and V12 by a long shot...

    Can't agree more!


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    nberry:
    fritz:
    RC:

    Funny that you are talking about a higher rev figure on a turbo charged car.

    I told the same to the 991 Turbo S development team when I provided my "feedback" and you know what they asked me? "What for?". They claimed that higher rev figures are not necessary and even counter-productive on turbo charged cars. They may have a point but of course I cannot verify it, I'm no engineer.

    I wonder why McLaren is doing this and why Porsche would consider it to be "counter-productive" and "unnecessary". yes

    At a guess I'd say that higher revs are deemed to be counter-productive in turbo engines because Porsche is probably aiming primarily for optimised brake specific fuel consumption when developing its engines, and the best bsfc figures are achieved in the intermediate rev range.
    (Brake specific fuel consumption is measured in terms of grams of fuel per hp hour, and varies considerably for a given engine with changes of certain parameters under which the fuel is burnt. These parameters include engine revs and boost pressure).

    Porsche needs to do this to reduce CO2 emissions, which are directly related to fuel consumption. 

    CO2 emissions now directly influence the annual taxes due for operating cars in many important markets, so their reduction is much more important to a manufacturer of 200,000+ cars/annum over a large price range, like Porsche, than they are for a manufacturer of just 4,000 cars/annum in a market segment where the level of annual operating tax is not of such great significance to the cars' buyers, such as McLaren. 

    Fritz, excellent information.Smiley

    Don't go overboard, Nick.  I did say it was just a guess.    Smiley


    --

    fritz


     
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