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    Re: 918

    New Porsche hypercar could use F1-spec hybrid powertrain

    Porsche has a 1.6-liter V6 hybrid on the test bench right now...

    (26th November 2019)

    Not long after the Porsche 918 Spyder went out of production in 2015, the automaker began internal debate about what kind of powertrain it would use in the follow-up. Four years later, the debate is ongoing. In 2017, Porsche voiced its desire to move its hypercar game on with a battery-electric powertrain, beyond the hybrid 918. The problem — echoed by McLaren — was that battery technology wouldn't make such a BEV possible until at least the middle of the 2020s. In 2019, the same issues remain, with solid-state battery tech not progressing as quickly as hoped. Autocar reports that Porsche could switch to Plan B in the meantime, that being an as-yet-unused 1.6-liter V6 hybrid engine Porsche Motorsport developed in order to return to Formula One as an engine supplier.

    Porsche has been mentioned as a potential new F1 entrant for years, but uncertainty at the Volkswagen Group and in the F1 rulebook compelled the German sports car maker to walk away from the opportunity, opting for Formula E instead. However, after leaving LMP1, 40 Porsche engineers from the Le Mans effort began working on a six-cylinder version of the 2.0-liter four-cylinder hybrid from the 919 Hybrid. That work turned into the creation of a 1.6-liter V6 hybrid along the lines of an F1 engine but without "the complex and expensive" MGU-H unit that converts exhaust heat into electrical energy. Motorsport chief Fritz Enzinger says that engine is still in development, having got as far as running on a test bench for "analysis with regard to series production relevance."

    There's no info on the hybrid component yet, but Stefan Weckbach, who oversees Porsche's EV projects, said the company could turn to its partnership with Rimac for that aspect.

    Even though Porsche has a motor ready, the board hasn't decided on whether to go electric or hybrid, and sports car boss Frank-Steffen Walliser says he doesn't care what kind of powertrain goes into the car as long as it can tick off a 6:30 lap time at the Nürburgring. So according to Autocar, what kind of bodywork might surround this powertain "remains at conceptual stage, with an introduction unlikely before 2023 at the earliest." We don't think the 917 Concept from 2014 would be a bad place to start. If Porsche goes with the 1.6-liter hybrid, though, the market would get a clearer competitor to the Mercedes-AMG One, and the platform could provide entries to the ACO's new so-called Hypercar class in the World Endurance Championship and to IMSA's Daytona Prototype class. 

     

    Link: https://www.autoblog.com/2019/11/26/porsche-918-successor-hypercar-f1-hybrid-engine/

    Smiley


    Re: 918

    That 917 concept is one of the most beautiful designs I have ever seen....


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: 918

    Carlos from Spain:

    That 917 concept is one of the most beautiful designs I have ever seen....

    Absolutely! One of those very rare timeless classic designs.


    --


    Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys


    Re: 918

    Carlos from Spain:

    That 917 concept is one of the most beautiful designs I have ever seen....

    Agree, but somehow the 917-hommage paint scheme does not do it any favours.... too retro.  Would be more stunning in solid GT silver IMO. 


    --

    2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2019 Porsche 911 Turbo


    Re: 918

    4trac:
    Carlos from Spain:

    That 917 concept is one of the most beautiful designs I have ever seen....

    Agree, but somehow the 917-hommage paint scheme does not do it any favours.... too retro.  Would be more stunning in solid GT silver IMO. 

    Happy to see a return to the topic versus the belabored political nonsense.  

    This article appeared on the Autocar website earlier today.

    Porsche looks at secret F1 drivetrain for new hypercar

    Aborted hybrid F1 drivetrain could be repurposed to power new Porsche hypercar

    Porsche hypercar render

    If the alternative drivetrain plan comes to fruition, the new Porsche hypercar will compete head on with the Mercedes-AMG One, which is also underpinned by F1 drivetrain technology.

    There are also suggestions that it could provide Porsche with a contemporary driveline package under both Le Mans’ new Hypercar and IMSA’s DPi regulations.

    Earlier this year, Porsche’s head of motorsport, Fritz Enzinger, revealed that the company had committed a 40-strong team of engineers from its LMP1 operations to a development programme for a six-cylinder engine and accompanying hybrid drive system as long ago as 2017 – two years after the 918 Spyder ceased production.

    The new Porsche engine was originally conceived around a capacity of 2.0 litres as a replacement for the V4 unit used by Porsche’s Le Mans-winning 919 race car. However, the focus of the development programme was subsequently switched to an F1 specification with a capacity of 1.6 litres, Autocar can confirm.

    Although Porsche ultimately decided to sidestep F1 and enter Formula E, development of the six-cylinder engine has continued up to today. That’s because, according to Enzinger, an F1 engine adapted for the durability needed for road use and without the complex and expensive MGU-H (motor generator unit – heat), which is used to harvest electrical energy from heat from the exhaust, would “also be interesting for a supersports car”.

    He said: “At the end of 2017, we received an order to further develop a highly efficient six-cylinder engine, despite the LMP1 withdrawal – not only on paper but as hardware.”

    Enzinger said Porsche’s new six-cylinder engine is “complete and running on the test bench”. He also authenticated reports that it is being used for “analysis with regard to series production relevance”.

    Secrecy surrounds the specification of the hybrid component of the new driveline, although it has been conceived to use a powerful electric motor.

    Speaking about Porsche’s hypercar plans at the recent Frankfurt motor show, the brand’s head of electric vehicle projects, Stefan Weckbach, said: “Our target is always, no matter what car we’re doing, to have the sportiest car in the segment.”

    Weckbach also suggested the electric side of the new Porsche driveline could benefit from technology being developed by a partnership between the German car maker and Rimac.

    Following the purchase of an initial 10% shareholding in the Croatian-based electric supercar maker in 2018, Porsche recently upped its stake in Rimac to 15.5%, indicating that it plans a closer working relationship with the company behind the highly acclaimed Concept One and C_Two hypercars. 

    “We see potential for future co-operation with this company. That is why we raised our stake,” Weckbach said. Rimac, whose latest C_Two hypercar is powered by an electric drive system that delivers up to 1888bhp, has quickly made a name for itself as a leader in electric motor and power electrics technology.

    As well as with Porsche, Rimac has also established engineering programmes with Aston MartinJaguar and Renault, among others.

    In May, Hyundai and Kia jointly invested €80 million (£69m) in Rimac in a deal that will mean the three companies collaborate on the development of EVs.

    Whether Porsche plans to apply Rimac’s technology to a pure-electric powertrain or hybrid drivetrain with its next hypercar remains to be seen.

    “If it is all electric, it might be an approach, though it might be a Porsche engine as well,” said Weckbach, who signalled that his personal choice would be a hybrid driveline.

    EV hypercar: 'will it work?'

    Scepticism of pure-electric ‘halo’ models is rife within Porsche and its head of sports cars, Frank-Steffen Walliser, made his feelings clear to Autocar during the Frankfurt motor show in September.

    Asked if he welcomed the influx of electric hypercar projects during the past year, Walliser (above) said: “We have seen a lot of studies of electric hypercars. For me, the proof is when it’s on the street with a licence plate. With a study, I don’t have to show you that it truly works, outside on the street, homologated.”

    Walliser then took a more philosophical line. “Does an EV hypercar work?” he asked.

    “For me, it’s like saying that a drag racer is a suitable sports car. For sure, it’s perfect from 0-100. But there are more things out there that make a sports car: day-to-day use, several laps of the Nürburgring, repeatable performance. I don’t think that would work with technology at its current state.”

    READ MORE

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    Porsche 911 to gain manual gearbox option

    Porsche 718 Cayman and Boxster are ‘right cars’ to lead electric sports car drive

     

     


    Re: 918

    There is an interesting point for those who still enjoy driving a car with an internal combustion engine...  1554541446878image.gif

    The success of global motorsport events such as Le Mans 24 hour and Nurburgring 24 hour with GT race car homologation based on road cars will help keep Frank Walliser and Andreas Preuninger focused on internal combustion engines. 

    While it is likely we will see more hybrid engines in motorsport (e.g. Porsche 919 Hybrid, Porsche 911 GT3 R Hybrid) there seems little prospect of pure EV racecars being competitive in 24 hour racing any time soon...

    Smiley


    Re: 918

    If I were Porsche, I would actually use the "shape" of the 918 for the "960" and something completely new and more bold for the next hypercar. Just saying...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: 918

    Boxster Coupe GTS:

    There is an interesting point for those who still enjoy driving a car with an internal combustion engine...  1554541446878image.gif

    While it is likely we will see more hybrid engines in motorsport (e.g. Porsche 919 Hybrid, Porsche 911 GT3 R Hybrid) there seems little prospect of pure EV racecars being competitive in 24 hour racing any time soon...

    You sure?  What if pit stops became battery swaps with modular fast change batteries?  ..  1554541446878image.gif


    --

    2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2019 Porsche 911 Turbo


    Re: 918

    4trac:
    Boxster Coupe GTS:

    There is an interesting point for those who still enjoy driving a car with an internal combustion engine...  1554541446878image.gif

    While it is likely we will see more hybrid engines in motorsport (e.g. Porsche 919 Hybrid, Porsche 911 GT3 R Hybrid) there seems little prospect of pure EV racecars being competitive in 24 hour racing any time soon...

    You sure?  What if pit stops became battery swaps with modular fast change batteries?  ..  1554541446878image.gif

    Le Mans hypercar 2020/2021 rules: all you need to know

    (18 November 2019)

    ► New rules for 2020/2021
    ► Toyota and Aston Martin already signed up
    ► Hybrid and non-hybrids allowed

    After much conjecture, endurance racing’s so-called Hypercar class has been confirmed. At the Le Mans 24 hours in June, Toyota and Aston Martin announced their commitment to the series. The World Endurance Championship (WEC) now runs summer-to-summer, meaning there’ll be one more season (2019/2020) of the current regulations before the Hypercar class goes live in 2020/2021. And it promises to make the WEC the most exciting motorsport on the planet.

    Why did endurance racing need to make changes?

    Prototypes have ruled the WEC for years, and at times the top LMP1 class has been sensational. Just a few years ago factory-backed entries from Porsche, Toyota, Audi and Nissan battled each other at unreal speeds, with each manufacturer taking a different approach to a refreshingly open set of regulations. At its peak, we saw front-engined V6s racing mid-engined V8s, diesels and a hybrid Porsche powered by a turbocharged 2.0-litre V4… Awesomely quick, the cars both fast-tracked and showcased key emergent technologies, primarily petrol-electric hybrid powertrains.

    But LMP1’s star has waned. The cars are fabulously expensive to develop, they don’t look anything like the cars manufacturers actually sell and – in part because of the gold rush to Formula E – all the factories bar Toyota went elsewhere. ‘It’s hard to define a return on investment when your racing car doesn’t look like any of the cars you sell,’ says Aston Martin CEO Andy Palmer. ‘I’m not a great fan of prototype racing. It’s for the drivers and racing teams, as opposed to being for the fans.

    ‘About two years ago, the ACO [Le Mans’ organising body] and the FIA came to the manufacturers and asked us where we’d like to see endurance racing going. My answer was simple: the best supercars and hypercars fighting on the track. I hope that was the planting of a seed.

    ‘What’s more, with the [LMP1] regulations as they are, teams were spending hundreds of millions looking for every opportunity to improve. It [the new class] makes it possible and affordable for a company like Aston Martin to compete with a company like Toyota.’

    It’s reckoned LMP1’s biggest teams were spending €200m (£180m) per year during the glory years. The FIA has stated that manufacturers should be able to fund a Hypercar season for a quarter of that figure, and much less for privateers.

    Who’ll contest the Hypercar class, and why should I care?

    Toyota is developing two closely-related cars, a low-volume, big-ticket GR Super Sport road car and a dedicated racer (the Hypercar class is open to both suitable prototypes and homologated road cars). 

    Both draw heavily on Toyota’s currently hybrid LMP1 prototype, the TS050, with carbonfibre monocoques and hybrid powertrains built around a mid-mounted 2.4-litre V6.

    ‘The road-car project has been full steam ahead for a couple of years,’ says Toyota Motorsport spokesman Alastair Moffitt. ‘The road car wasn’t impacted by the indecision we’ve seen around the regulations. We started work on the race car in the light of last year’s regulations [the ‘Hyperclass’ was announced in broad terms at Le Mans 2018] but, when we couldn’t get confirmation that the regulations would materialise, we put race-car development on hold – and it’s been on hold now for a couple of months. Now we have confirmation, we’ll have the race car on track for the first time in the middle of next year – pretty close to the start of the first Hypercar season.’

    Aston Martin will race the Valkyrie, the Adrian Newey- sculpted, Cosworth V12-powered work of art, thereby rolling back the years to a time before diesels and hybrids when rampaging naturally-aspirated V10s and V12s ruled Le Mans. When even F1 now echoes to the muted moan of turbocharged and hybrid-boosted V6s, this is sensational news. Peugeot has also since joined the Hypercar party. 

    What’s more, the Hypercars won’t be much slower than the current generation of hybrid prototypes. The key numbers are 1100kg, 750bhp and a target lap time of 3min 30sec. The Toyotas that dominated Le Mans this year are lighter and more powerful, with a fastest race lap of 3min 17sec. While that gap might feel like a backward step to Toyota and its drivers, fans won’t spot the difference – not least because the Hypercars will undoubtedly sound faster. And it’s a measure of how modest those performance targets are that both the GR Super Sport and Valkyrie will have to be turned down to comply…

    ‘It’ll have to be significantly de-tuned,’ explains Palmer. ‘Valkyrie is one of the most extreme performance cars ever. It has F1 heritage, and now there’s the potential to own endurance racing, which is about great engineering, durability, quality and reliability. If it ticks all those boxes then you have a car that’s both the ultimate performer and capable of enduring the most difficult race in the world, Le Mans.’

    Other manufacturers with at least an eye on the series? That list includes Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche and McLaren to name but four… Given Porsche is thought to spend €20m (£18m) a year racing its GTE Pro 911 RSRs, the Hypercar class could prove tempting. Plus of course Porsche unveiled the astonishingly beautiful 917 concept study back in May… 

    Aston’s Palmer hopes the entry list doesn’t stall at two. ‘Aston Martin and Toyota have said we’ll give it a go, but I sincerely hope we’ll see Porsche, McLaren, Ferrari, because why wouldn’t you? If you think your hypercar’s the best, come and test it.’

    Why have the rules taken so long to nut out?

    ‘There’d been a few false dawns,’ explains Toyota’s Moffitt. ‘The other manufacturers were naturally keen to avoid a spending war. No manufacturer wants to lose badly, as Nissan experienced, but equally they don’t want to burn money like crazy in order to not lose, because then you start to lose the return on investment. They wanted assurances that budgets would be kept under control, and that there’d be parity between the cars.

    ‘Another issue was whether a hybrid was compulsory. Originally it was intended that it would be, but a compromise was reached. Related to that was the issue of whether or not hybrids should be advantaged. The LMP1 regulations have always included an implicit small advantage to hybrids, to encourage manufacturers to develop more powerful systems. That’s not the case in the Hypercar class.’

    How will close racing and modest spending be maintained?

    While relatively modest performance targets are part of the solution, the answer to significantly reduced spending is primarily the Balance of Performance (BoP) rule-tweaking that keeps the production-based GTE Pro class (contested by Ferrari 488s, Porsche 911 RSRs and Aston’s Vantage, for example) so closely matched.

    From analysis of each car’s performance in forensic detail, BoP plays with myriad variables, from boost pressure through ballast to fuel capacity and engine air restrictor size, to ensure close racing. What’s more, because you’ll be artificially slowed anyway, there’s no point spending the equivalent of a decent nation’s GDP on go-faster R&D. GTE Pro’s proved BoP works – though it isn’t popular among purists or teams hit by handicaps, as Aston Martin’s factory cars were at Le Mans this year. 

    ‘The BoP system, while clearly sometimes imperfect, does at least bring the cost of entry right down,’ says Palmer. ‘There’s no point making everything out of gold and magnesium because you’re going to get BoP’d anyway.’

    ‘In principle we don’t like Balance of Performance,’ agrees Toyota’s Moffitt. ‘We’d rather go out and win on merit. But if that’s the way to bring in competition and have a strong series then let’s go for it.’

    However it all shakes out ahead of the Hypercar class’s debut in 2020, Le Mans 2021 should serve up one hell of a fight and be one heck of a spectacle.

    Link:  https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/features/car-culture/le-mans-wec-hypercar/

    Smiley



    Re: 918

    How is your 918 doing Whoopsy?


    --

    1969 Mercedes-Benz 300SEL 6.3  / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS (sold) / 2011 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Performance / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2018 Porsche 911 GT3 Clubsport


    Re: 918

    I think it was a victim of his insurance-gate…(parked, I guess)


    --

    997.2 4S / BMW 745e / Donkervoort GT 


    Re: 918

    Porker:

    How is your 918 doing Whoopsy?

     

    How's this for an answer.

    IMG_2054.JPGIMG_2053.JPG

    Call it snowed in. Together with the GT2RS.

    Those Cup2s aren't the best in the snow you know.........................

     


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    Re: 918

    Any chance you need some expert ski lessons from an old Austrian?  Looks awesome. 


    Re: 918

    Leawood911:

    Any chance you need some expert ski lessons from an old Austrian?  Looks awesome. 

     

    Not really but I can always do with more drinking buddies Smiley


    --

     

     


    Re: 918

    Last night I dreamt I got myself a 918... 👀 I don't have a clue what this means but a few weeks ago a bird 💩 on my head (thank god I was wearing a cap 😬), so maybe I get lucky somehow. 🤔😂


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: 918

    RC:

    Last night I dreamt I got myself a 918... 👀 I don't have a clue what this means but a few weeks ago a bird 💩 on my head (thank god I was wearing a cap 😬), so maybe I get lucky somehow. 🤔😂

    There are two 918s currently on the floor at the local Bugatti/Bentley/Rolls-Royce/Lamborghini dealership.   One is silver and the other in a Martini Racing motif.   


    Re: 918

    918 is a car that I do not want to own.  Don't want to live with its repair and maintenance cost, and insurance...  One buddy has one is good enough. indecision


    --

    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S;  2019 Speedster
     


    Re: 918

    Not much repair bills..........just a damaged side sill and bottom trays......those were repaired. Still a scratched front lip that's left but that's about it. To be expected for a car with 23,000km on it..........

    Yearly maintenance cost is actually cheaper than a McLaren or a Lamborghini. Not counting the major at 4th year...........

    Insurance cost wasn't too bad.........until the insurance company jacked up the rate......but now it's literally zero cost since it's parked. 

     


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    Re: 918

    1587223435313Porsche-917-Hypercar-Patent-Image-5.png
    1587223435298Porsche-917-Hypercar-Patent-Image-1.png
    1587223435304Porsche-917-Hypercar-Patent-Image-2.png
    1587223435309Porsche-917-Hypercar-Patent-Image-3.png


    Re: 918

    interesting videos here also

    https://www.carscoops.com/2020/04/fact-check-no-these-porsche-patents-do-not-show-a-new-hypercar-successor-to-the-918-spyder/


    --

    Tesla Model S P100d. 2018 991.2 GT3. 2019 BMW M850i Convertible. 2020 Tesla Model 3 Performance. 2020 Aston Martin Vantage. 2020 Mclaren 720S coupe. 🥳



    Re: 918

    918 Spyder vs Taycan Turbo S vs 720S

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edFkqXjJ_fg

     


    Re: 918

    720S could stand a chance if they do 250km/hr to 300km/hr.

    It has a better hp to weight ratio after 265km/hr. No traction issue either at that speed.


    --

     

     


    Re: 918

    plus the e engine disengages in the 918 


    Re: 918

    I think that is what Whoopsy was alluding to...indecision...interestingly enough, the 720S in this drag race was modified (the talk of 800 bhp at the crank)...


    Re: 918

    If that 720S was modified, whoever did it, did a very bad job. Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


     
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