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    Re: 645 Ci

    I agree with most of you, that the new BMW design is disapointing.
    The 6 series looks much better the the 7. But the main problem of the new design is that it only looks "good" in black.
    And one thing is for sure, the new 6 looks much better than the old.

    Re: 645 Ci

    As a former 635CSi (Euro) owner, I think the old is much prettier than the new one (and much better sized).

    Re: 645 Ci

    i've driven the 645Ci on country roads and autobahn for about 1 hour in early december (on invitation of BMW). it's a very refined GT. it lacks some emotion compared to competitors like maserati coupé, 996 4S. but apart from the (IMO too) high price tag it's a perfect car. no kidding. it's a really great drive. i'd take this one over a merc CL/CLK 500 anytime.

    exterior is also fine in reality. believe me. it works as a whole. but it's right that a dark color is a must.

    Re: 645 Ci

    635CSI, one of the best cars of its time. Congrats Grant.
    That car used to be called the shark in France.
    Love it.

    Re: 645 Ci

    The old 6 was such a wonderful car. My father owned a 633csi when I was a kid, light green metallic, green leather inside - fantastic. A shame, I was quite far away from the driving license at that time .

    The Bracq-design of the old 6 is just beautiful, a classic in every way, a milestone for BMW. Whereas the new one is just - RC said it before - ugly and if it ever will be remembered, than for its ugliness.

    regards
    sr

    Re: 645 Ci

    Thanks, Fanch! That was my first foreign car (not American) and every car since has been German thanks to the great experience I had with the 635. Best part was that I bought it for a very small amount ($3,700) in the early 1990's when I was a poor student.

    Re: 645 Ci

    Quote:
    GM Austin said:Current BMW relability is pretty sorry. Our X-5 had three times the glitches the Cayenne had. The only thing that has kept us from getting rid of it is that it really is a very nice car (when it works) and dealer service has been outstanding (the local dealer is part of the Penske chain).



    The decline in dealer service here was the clincher for my wife. Ever since the dealer took on the Mini franchise, service quality (meaning treatment of customers) has suffered quite a lot. This used to be the best car dealer in town. I don't understand how the current state of affairs came to be.

    Re: 645 Ci

    I have always thought the old E24 6 series was and is a very beautiful car. Yes, what the new 6 will look like in years to come is a matter of "wait and see" and personal taste, but it's so funny how so many people refuse to recongnize the 6 series as an original idea not copied from somewhere esle!

    I probably do come off as being a one sided BMW guy, but hey! I love BMW! Im not going to turn my back on BMW just because their designs don't please everyone. It's just so funny as in so many other things, people just won't give it a chance? I am quite open minded, and I am open to the possibility of owning something other than a BMW.

    Yes BMW quality is sucking it up these days, thats part of the reason I got rid of the M5, but aren't the majority of car manufactures suking it up where quality is concerned? It seems that so many people are looking for the perfect car, your'e never going to find it.

    Re: 645 Ci

    Quote:
    it's so funny how so many people refuse to recongnize the 6 series as an original idea not copied from somewhere esle!




    It's hard to accept the new 6 as an original idea when its silhouette resembles a stretched 911.

    Re: 645 Ci

    Yes, true. But overall this is a very original idea. Come on, you can't have the car without the trunk lid? And that is the only part that is 911.

    Re: 645 Ci

    Quote:
    And that is the only part that is 911.



    The shiloutte that is.

    Re: 645 Ci

    Quote:
    And that is the only part that is 911.


    How about the unusuable rear seats for another?

    Don't get me wrong though, I've always been a BMW fan (750il used to be my favourite sedan) and highly respect their test drivers who tune these machines into beautifully handling cars. I'm also prettey sure that this new 6 will give you the usual BMW driving satisfaction. However, just can't agree with Mr. Bangle on his designing direction. He could have received more complements from other industry (such as marine boats or armoured tanks) just not this automobile business and the least of all from desiging one of my favourite sedans, which are BMWs.

    Re: 645 Ci

    To be honest, I am by no means a Bangle fan. I think the new designs present a new problem in the way the car is pieced together(panel gaps are rather large on the newer cars). Will I get a 6 series? Probably not. But none the less I think it's a nice looking car(I like the bullet shaped front nose more than anything else).

    The 5 is OK, the rear is a little "subie" impreza with a twist and the front looks nice, but for some reason it just looks like it needs more refinemet.

    Im am strongly considering the M5 because I like the sound of a V-10 in a four door sedan. But who knows, I could change my mind. Having once owned a C43 I could go for another Benz, thats if they drop the supercharged engines(I don't know why, I just like raw power) .

    Re: 645 Ci

    I don't find there to be noticeable lag in AMG supercharged powerplants. If anything, it's the transmission. In fact, the presence of low down torque in the real world is most advantageous. In any case, the engines really suit the cars IMO. You once mentioned before that you noticed the V8K engine lags?? Now if by "raw', you mean naturally aspiriated, then that's just a philosophy.

    A lot of people are going to be drawn to the M5 simply because it's "cool" to have a V-10 and the power figures are VERY tempting indeed. HP sells. Should be hell of a sedan.

    Re: 645 Ci

    Well I do know that I don't plan on buying the first year of production because I don't want to worry about the possibilty of gremlins emerging, as well as wasting my money and being hassled by BMW NA, cuz they suck when it comes to customer satisfaction(provided you know/ get in touch with the right people your'e experience can be great). The M5 may not be a car for me at all, it may be a real P.O.S. I dont know. It does sound very appealing just the same I guess we will just have to "wait and see".

    As far as the E55 goes, I have said that there can be abrupt power delivery thanks to the supercharger(not my experience but freinds of mine). Driving the E55 myself I found the power delivery to be quite smooth, but the car only had 20 sum miles on it as it had been delivered days before to the dealer. Besides as I have said before I enjoy the feeling of a "raw", naturally aspirated engine.

    Re: 645 Ci

    for those who have been bashing Bangle for the 6 series styling, a quote from the January 2004 Car and Driver, p. 128:
    "Bangle, who credits BMW's California-based DesignworksUSA president Adrian van Hooydonk with the exterior shape, admits the 645's charm may be lost on people who only see it in magazines. 'We've decided that we can't figure out how to design a car that looks good in pictures,' he says with a shrug."

    Re: 645 Ci

    It's dissapointing in person as well.

    I'm not so sure what Bangle is talking about.

    Re: 645 Ci

    In Antwort auf:
    patter said:
    for those who have been bashing Bangle for the 6 series styling, a quote from the January 2004 Car and Driver, p. 128:
    "Bangle, who credits BMW's California-based DesignworksUSA president Adrian van Hooydonk with the exterior shape, admits the 645's charm may be lost on people who only see it in magazines. 'We've decided that we can't figure out how to design a car that looks good in pictures,' he says with a shrug."



    Already seen it a couple of months ago, no camouflage, only the badges were missing. It also looks horrible in real.

    best
    sr

    Re: 645 Ci

    My point was not meant to be that the new 6 actually good looking but more that Bangle is not the man who designed the exterior so lets stop blaming him for it.

    Re: 645 Ci

    Unforunately this is something that people really don't get. Bangle didin't design any of the cars he's being criticized for, the cars were designed by individuals within his design team. For instance Anders Warming desgined the Z4. Bangle has the experience to lead and develop those within his team. Adrian Van Hooydonk designed both the 7 & the 6.

    Re: 645 Ci

    thanks for the reinforcement there AMGeater.

    Re: 645 Ci

    N.P.

    Re: 645 Ci

    Also guys let me say that the new 6 DOES look a lot like the old 6! Spend enough time doing your'e studying and you'll make the connection!

    Re: 645 Ci

    In Antwort auf:
    AMGeater said:
    Also guys let me say that the new 6 DOES look a lot like the old 6! Spend enough time doing your'e studying and you'll make the connection!



    No way.

    Re: 645 Ci

    In Antwort auf:
    AMGeater said:
    Unforunately this is something that people really don't get. Bangle didin't design any of the cars he's being criticized for, the cars were designed by individuals within his design team. For instance Anders Warming desgined the Z4. Bangle has the experience to lead and develop those within his team. Adrian Van Hooydonk designed both the 7 & the 6.



    So let's fire them all.

    Re: 645 Ci

    the new 6 doesn't seem to look as ugly to me as it does to the rest of you here. I don't think it looks that bad, though i havn't seen it in person yet.

    Re: 645 Ci

    In Antwort auf:
    reservoir dog said:
    the new 6 doesn't seem to look as ugly to me as it does to the rest of you here. I don't think it looks that bad, though i havn't seen it in person yet.



    There's no accounting for personal taste...

    Re: 645 Ci

    When I was a child, my good friend's father had a black E24 M6. This was the car that got me interested cars in the first place. I loved that car so much. I can't picture the new 6 being so inspirational.

     
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